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Iraqi Kurds: A nation in waiting
Stars and Stripes ^ | July 27, 2014 | Slobodan Lekic

Posted on 07/27/2014 10:51:36 PM PDT by Rabin

The Kurdish region of Iraq and Turkey, border Iran, and Syria. Kurds have a well developed, effective government, parliament and security force. The region has had nearly total independence since Iraq's defeat in the 1991 Gulf War. // Snipp //

Largely corrupted remnants of U.S.-trained Iraqi Army, crumbled under the Saudi-wahhabi push East. Peshmerga recovered strategic northern positions, including suburbs of now, wahhab dominated City Mosul. //Snipp//

Many Kurdish Iraqi leaders believe ever blossoming federal cronyism, and recently demonstrated national defense atrophy, lay bare a chronic Humpty Dumptyism. The Nation may best function as a Republic. “I don’t think Iraq can stay together again after (the fall of) Mosul,” Nechirvan Barzani, prime minister of the autonomous Kurdish region, said in a BBC interview. “It’s almost impossible.”

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

KEYWORDS: armenia; azerbaijan; chaldeans; iran; iraq; jordan; kurd; kurdistan; syria; turkey
Caliphate of the Hejaz (all grovel), Abid Saudi-wahhabi.


1 posted on 07/27/2014 10:51:37 PM PDT by Rabin
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To: Rabin

Turkey needs to accept a Kurdish state as a buffer between itself and Iraq’s ongoing wars with Moslem nut jobs. And, if we were really wise, we’d use US Airpower and Kurdish ground forces to route ISIS out of that area.

2 posted on 07/27/2014 10:53:33 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: Rabin

What an irony, the Kurds are 100 times as deserving of having their own nation as the dirtbag Palestinians. Indeed, it’s hard to imagine a single redeeming aspect of the Palis.

3 posted on 07/27/2014 11:01:19 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (At no time was the Obama administration aware of what the Obama administration was doing)
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To: elhombrelibre

Well said. Even though the main religion of the Kurds is Islam they tend to be far more accepting of other religions including Judaism and Christianity as well as some old religions and Zoroastrianism. They have been a thorn in the side of Turkey at times but I think wisdom would see the Turks support their nationhood as long as old disputes are settled and current borders are affirmed by both sides!

4 posted on 07/27/2014 11:46:41 PM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: melsec
According to Wiki, there are about 30M Kurds. They have roots in ancient Persia, and are related to Iranians. They also have a history of oppression at the hands of Arab Muslims.

Nationhood? Hell yeah!

5 posted on 07/28/2014 12:46:00 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: elhombrelibre
If they accept "a Kurdish state", that will include not only Iraqi Kurdistan and Syrian Kurdish areas but also a substantial portion of eastern Turkey and southern Turkey

Then, if they agree to Kurdistan carved out of Turkey, it ends the century old "Young Turks" philosophy of making all people of Turkicisation -- whereby the various peoples of Anatolia were made to believe they were Turks, when by blood they are closer related to Greek, Armenians and Iranis rather than to the Turkic peoples.

6 posted on 07/28/2014 1:09:16 AM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: melsec; elhombrelibre
Not completely -- the Kurds were the main people who carried out the Armenian Genocide when Armenian Christian women were gang-raped and then nailed to crosses

They are now much more accepting of Judaism, Christianity and retain Yazidism and Zoroastrianism.

I support them tentatively today, but would be happier if they toss of Islam completely -- until then I will remember their part in the Christian genocide

7 posted on 07/28/2014 1:13:10 AM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Ken H
Kurds are an Irani people, just like Persians, Tajiks, Baluchis, Azeris etc.

They may be descendents of the ancient Medes or or the Cardusii -- an Irani tribe that lived on the south-west shores of the Caspian sea.

8 posted on 07/28/2014 1:15:21 AM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos

Thanks for your insight.

9 posted on 07/28/2014 3:12:16 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

If any should be supported, it would seem they are it. But many powers that be want to imagine it all away.

10 posted on 07/28/2014 7:18:29 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Cronos; elhombrelibre; melsec
It's unfair to say "the Kurds were the main people who carried out the Armenian Genocide."

The Armenian Genocide during WW1, to which I think you were referring, was carried out by Arabs, Turks and muslims of Caucasian tribes, and some Kurdish tribal forces. Other Kurds, I have read, opposed the genocide (or ethnic cleansing) and in many cases even tried hiding or adopting Armenian refugees. (Henry H. Riggs, Days of Tragedy in Armenia: Personal Experiences in Harpoot, page 158, 1997.)

I think it's important to remember there are different Kurdish tribes, dialects (even languages) and political parties even today.

What I like about the Kurds is 1. many Kurdish tribes have learned to evolve for the better since WW1. 2. they, overall, have a much stronger sense of nationalism and therefore are much more secular in attitude & their politics than many Arabs at least. In the muslim world, that's definitely a plus.

11 posted on 07/31/2014 2:50:17 PM PDT by odds
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To: odds

Can you give more information on your various points. I am interested in reading and learning from them

12 posted on 07/31/2014 11:38:33 PM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos
Must preface it by saying I'm not an authority on the Kurds, nor have the same depth of knowledge as I do for the Persian side.

Nonetheless, I know a few Kurds, and did a fair bit of research when writing a blog, a few years ago, on Iran (history, culture & politics) - the blog was essentially written from a Zoroastrian (but secular) perspective, it was obvious, had a Faravahar picture on the sideboard too. I had regular Kurdish visitors, and several left regular comments there on Kurdish related threads, as did a few Turks! It was lively. I’ve closed the blog since and for now, but not because of Turks or Kurds.

I am unsure what you're specifically interested in. But the Kurds are not 'one group of people'. In Turkey alone, they've different dialects: Kirmanci, Sorani, Gorani, Dimili and Zaza. Kirmanci is close to present day Persian. Zaza is quite a different ‘language’. It is a similar story in Iran too. But am sure you can find out more searching on the internet.

Similarly there are different political groups. PKK, the most militant one, as you know, adheres to an ideology that combines socialism and nationalism, was very much influenced by the USSR’s socialist ideology, mostly operating out of Turkey. PKK has also been fighting the Khomeinist regime in Iran since the latter came to power. Then, there is PUK and KDP. They tend to be democratic, nationalist and secular (not socialist or militant as per PKK).

Admittedly, there are Kurdish tribes or smaller groups, particularly in Turkey and Iraq, and some individuals in Iran who are militant or very religious Islamics. But they are more the exception especially in Iran, as far as I’m aware. Even in Iraq, I should think the Islamic ones are very much in the minority.

About my liking the Kurds:

Well, as noted above, most Kurds (regardless of political party or tribe) have a very strong sense of nationalism, more so than of religion, which they ALL share. Hence, they, overall, tend to be more secular (separation of religion from politics) in attitude and politics too. That is to say they are more tolerant of other religions. That is true, when compared to the rest or most of the Arab world for example.

I think the Kurdish leaning towards secularism and nationalism stems from the fact that for a very long time, they haven’t had a state of their own. The only strong bonding comes not from being a muslim or a sunni, but from being a Kurd, despite differences in dialects or geographies.

The Kurds in Iraq, despite the politics and ongoing war continuously posing obstacles and instability, have managed to gradually give their community a basic political and social structure and foundation, which is democratic and non-religious. So far, it’s admirable.

Yes, they are also influenced by Islam, there are problems with, for example, female genital mutilation in Iraqi Kurdistan, and also in Kurdish parts of Iran. But as far as I’m aware, those Islamic practices are family-specific, and Yazidis practice them more so than other Kurds. By the way, during the Shah’s reign, they tried to stop those practices in Kurdish parts of Iran.

Equally, the Peshmerga (Kurdish pronunciation) and Peeshmarga (Persian pronunciation) meaning ‘those who confront or are near death’, have many female fighters in their ranks. And, they don’t wear the hejab. Male or female, they’re very capable and great fighters.

Lastly, many Kurds may not want to admit it due to strong nationalism. But even their flag has a strong affinity with the traditional Iranian flag of Sun & Lion. The current Iraqi Kurdish flag has the yellow Sun and same colours (red, green and white) as the Iranian one. The Kurds are Iranic people and they know it. Many Kurds in Iraq, Turkey and Iran also have a very deep respect for Zoroastrianism and identify fairly strongly with it.

I can say more but I’m on my way out to have dinner. Hope the above made some sense to you. It was a brief brain dump written in a hurry.

13 posted on 08/01/2014 3:49:15 AM PDT by odds
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