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Our Republic and Our Free Republic
9-6-02 | Joe Phillips

Posted on 09/06/2002 8:17:16 AM PDT by BADJOE

History teaches some very good lessons. They are hard to learn but our forefathers did a great job.

From the beginning of time man has overthrown one form of centralized government only to re-establish another one in its place. Our forefathers understood this far better than anyone ever had. They said governments are the eternal enemy of free men. They said that in order for man to remain free it would take a bloody revolution every other generation, unless you bound down (bastard) government with the chains of the constitution.

On another site this week a poster asked if anyone else hated government as much as he did. I replied to him

"Hell !! I thought you were not a good American if you didn't love our country and hate our government.

At least that is how I have always felt about it"

I think our forefathers had the same attitude that I have now. And I think it is inherent in the average Americans attitude to distrust and have disdain for any government, including ours. One of the hardest conclusions I had to arrive at as a young man, after having been a product of the public school system, was that our government was not on our side. As James Forrestahl, former secretary of the Navy, who suffered a mysterious death, once said about our State Department's foreign policy, " Stupidity is never a mark of consistancy. If they were merely stupid, they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor".

Newt Gringrich put it in a humourous manner when talking about the attitude of Europeans. He related the following story. If you go to Europe and drive on the Autobahn, you feel pretty good cruising down the highway at 100 mph when some some German passes you doing 140 mph. Now he said if the Bundestag passed the 55mph speed limit law, every German would dutifully obey that law, untill the next election. They would vote the 55 mph crowd out of office and the no speed limit crowd in. In America Newt said "A speed limit sign is a benchmark of opportunity.

It is obvious that Yankees and Euros have entirely different attitudes about government's edicts. There are darn few Americans who do not break the speed limit laws everyday.

Now we come to the Free Republic. Once a free wheeling, joyful site for news and discussion of politics, economics, philosophy, ethics and morals. I could not understand the transformation that has taken place in the last six months. Camaraderie, the sense of family, and cooperation seems to have disappeared. Are the Freepers exhibiting the same disdain for the new FR as Americans have for our government?


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It is tough to understand why anyone would shoot their funding in the foot unless alternative funding was in place.

Has FR been bought by the GOP behind the scenes? Are the two gung ho GOP moderators the go between to oversee and direct FR to be the power internet arm of GOP politcos?

Is there any other explanation?

1 posted on 09/06/2002 8:17:17 AM PDT by BADJOE
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To: BADJOE
"I thought you were not a good American if you didn't love our country and hate our government. At least that is how I have always felt about it"

Works fer me, especially at the Federal level...MUD

2 posted on 09/06/2002 8:22:25 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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To: BADJOE
joe, i love ya, and all you've done for FR,
but if this turns into another slug fest a week before 9-11,

i hope the f*****g thing gets nuked !

3 posted on 09/06/2002 8:23:34 AM PDT by tomkat
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so much for my coffee break rant - back to the shop ...
4 posted on 09/06/2002 8:25:49 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: BADJOE
"Has FR been bought by the GOP behind the scenes?"

PUH-leeeze, BADJOE, do you really believe one iota of what yer implying here?! SHEEEESH!!

"Are the two gung ho GOP moderators the go between to oversee and direct FR to be the power internet arm of GOP politicos? Is there any other explanation?"

I'm sure there are plenty and it's amazing how much JimRob lets you get away with...if it was my site, I reckon you'd be calling me a "Tyrant" or a "Sell-out", too, wouldn't you?!

MUD

5 posted on 09/06/2002 8:26:42 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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To: BADJOE
Joe, whatever you are smoking, I want some. Please Freepmail me and I'll give ya my address!

Keep smiling,

Philip.

6 posted on 09/06/2002 8:26:48 AM PDT by Jakarta ex-pat
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To: BADJOE
One of the hardest conclusions I had to arrive at as a young man, after having been a product of the public school system, was that our government was not on our side.

Bump. Kudos to you sir.

7 posted on 09/06/2002 8:27:08 AM PDT by 4CJ
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To: BADJOE; Joe Montana; Uncle Bill; Fred Mertz; OKCSubmariner; Askel5
BUMP !!!!
8 posted on 09/06/2002 8:27:46 AM PDT by Donald Stone
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To: tomkat; Jim Robinson; Clarity; Bob J
"i hope the f*****g thing gets nuked!!

I hope not...I'd like to see who actually agrees with this sorta krap!!

FReegards...MUD

9 posted on 09/06/2002 8:28:06 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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To: BADJOE
That low buzzing sound in the background is a score of AF worker bees madly re-posting this thread around the internet. Joe, I like FR, but I don't overestimate its influence, and I see no need for the GOP to try and control FR, continues its never-ending soap-opera status.

Instead of the GOP taking control, over the course of four years at this site I have seen FR go through changes in response to the political environment around it. We used to be defined by our common enemy, Clinton, and I worried what would happen to FR once Clinton was no longer in office. Then, JimRob decided that the conservative movement should fall in behind Bush during August 2000 because that was the only viable decision to make at the time, and he didn't want FR to be used as a platform for political sniping. Then, after 9/11, JimRob has become more supportive of Bush and his efforts to fight terrorism. Wars do that. However, I have at NO TIME felt that I was unable to criticize Bush and/or the GOP on FR without fear of censorship or banishment.

10 posted on 09/06/2002 8:28:18 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: BADJOE; Jim Robinson
Come on, Joe.
I thought you and Jim had settled all this nonsense?!?

FRegards,
CD

11 posted on 09/06/2002 8:29:45 AM PDT by Constitution Day
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To: dirtboy; M. Thatcher
"I have at NO TIME felt that I was unable to criticize Bush and/or the GOP on FR without fear of censorship or banishment."

Dittoes, DIRT...MUD

12 posted on 09/06/2002 8:30:21 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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To: Mudboy Slim
normally i'd understand that,
but christ, if there's ever a week to at least attempt a united front,
i gotta believe this is the one ...
13 posted on 09/06/2002 8:31:17 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: BADJOE
Has FR been bought by the GOP behind the scenes?

I've been carrying the water for the local Grand Old Party apparatchik for 10 years now (working phone banks, get-out-the-vote phone trees, planting yard signs, playing sound engineer at debates and press conferences, poll watching, etc.), and they've never bought me so much as a cup of coffee. (That's a lie - I did get a free Coke once that somebody couldn't get to fall out of a soda machine). Rotsa ruck finding the cancelled checks for the purchase of FR by THOSE cheapskates.

14 posted on 09/06/2002 8:31:20 AM PDT by strela
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To: BADJOE; Constitution Day
I thought you and Jim had settled all this nonsense?!?

BUMP

The moderation sucks, but everybody knows that now... what is this thread supposed to accomplish?

15 posted on 09/06/2002 8:32:57 AM PDT by Sloth
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To: BADJOE
You are doing this again BADJOE? - Just exactly who is shooting the funding in the foot?
16 posted on 09/06/2002 8:33:45 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: BADJOE
"Free Republic. Once a free wheeling, joyful site for news and discussion of politics, economics, philosophy, ethics and morals."

Still is.

"I could not understand the transformation that has taken place in the last six months. Camaraderie, the sense of family, and cooperation seems to have disappeared."

Yer hangin' out on the wrong threads, my FRiend.

"Are the Freepers exhibiting the same disdain for the new FR as Americans have for our government?"

Except fer a number of disgruntled AFers on websites that no one reads, what the heck are you talking about.

SHEEEESH, dude, you sure can get cranky in the mornin'...MUD

17 posted on 09/06/2002 8:33:56 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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To: BADJOE
Has FR been bought by the GOP behind the scenes? Are the two gung ho GOP moderators the go between to oversee and direct FR to be the power internet arm of GOP politcos?

Huh???? First they're Gestapo twins, now they're gung ho GOP moderator go betweens?? This sounds a little off base, BJ.

Did I come late to the dance or is there still a huge chip on your shoulder?

18 posted on 09/06/2002 8:34:44 AM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: BADJOE
Gee,you can't let it go, can you? If this is going to be a regular pity party, why don't you just take your thumbsucker and depart?

You appear to be unappeasable, and any overtures to you go upon deaf ears.You have no class to keep this up, and the folly of appealing to you is evident again.This time, I hope JR cuts you loose.
19 posted on 09/06/2002 8:35:00 AM PDT by habs4ever
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To: strela
Rotsa ruck finding the cancelled checks for the purchase of FR by THOSE cheapskates.

Hehehehehe...

20 posted on 09/06/2002 8:35:18 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: BADJOE
This seems like a good place no matter who is paying the bills.
21 posted on 09/06/2002 8:35:39 AM PDT by Six Bells
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To: BADJOE
WHAT exactly IS your problem??? I thought this issue was hashed out, finished and done with??

AND are you serious when you say you "HATE" OUR government???

22 posted on 09/06/2002 8:36:37 AM PDT by Neets
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To: BADJOE
C'mon BadJoe - not again, please...
23 posted on 09/06/2002 8:36:47 AM PDT by TomServo
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To: Six Bells
hang around a while;
it'll likely become a sanity haven for ya ...
24 posted on 09/06/2002 8:37:21 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: tomkat
USUALLY
25 posted on 09/06/2002 8:37:45 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: BADJOE
BJ-if you hadn't been around for so long, if you hadn't contributed so much to FR, I'd be calling you a disruptor right now....(hangs head and sighs)
26 posted on 09/06/2002 8:37:46 AM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: tomkat; BADJOE
"if there's ever a week to at least attempt a united front"

A united front shall not be accomplished by squelching debate...I just think calling JimRob a "SELLOUT" is absolutely preposterous and I'd like to see who the heck agrees with BADJOE on this lunacy!!

FReegards...MUD

27 posted on 09/06/2002 8:38:19 AM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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Anyone have anything to go with this?

28 posted on 09/06/2002 8:38:20 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: OneidaM
AND are you serious when you say you "HATE" OUR government???

Hate can be a good thing, if properly channeled.

29 posted on 09/06/2002 8:38:57 AM PDT by Darth Sidious
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To: BADJOE
bump
30 posted on 09/06/2002 8:39:15 AM PDT by steve50
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To: HairOfTheDog

31 posted on 09/06/2002 8:39:24 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: HairOfTheDog
Sweetie, it's beyond the point of Whinne and Cheese now.

It is just plain disgusting...and what a slap to Jim Robinson, after having been so charitable to BadJoe after his last episode.

32 posted on 09/06/2002 8:40:01 AM PDT by Neets
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To: Darth Sidious
Hate can be a good thing, if properly channeled.

LOL! Still a bit fuzzy on the whole "Dark side" thing Darth?

33 posted on 09/06/2002 8:40:41 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Darth Sidious
Yea, whatever,,,hate is hate is hate is hate, no matter how you channel it or try to sugar coat it, or even redefine it.
34 posted on 09/06/2002 8:41:01 AM PDT by Neets
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To: BADJOE
Joe, I thought you and someone else were overseeing the moderation. If anyone knows what's going on, it should be you. Rather than beating around the bush, can you tell us what happened, and why you are unable settle this privately with Jim?
35 posted on 09/06/2002 8:41:48 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Darth Sidious
Agreed. Particularly towards the likes of bin Laden...

I've let the hate for that creep flow through me since 9/11.
36 posted on 09/06/2002 8:42:02 AM PDT by hchutch
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To: HairOfTheDog
Still a bit fuzzy on the whole "Dark side" thing Darth?

It's that "being married now" thing, it keeps coloring the Dark Side a lighter shade of pale.

37 posted on 09/06/2002 8:42:37 AM PDT by Darth Sidious
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To: HairOfTheDog
Just exactly who is shooting the funding in the foot?

Answer: the architect(s) of these continuing psychodramas.

38 posted on 09/06/2002 8:42:56 AM PDT by Kathleen
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To: Mudboy Slim
debate is one thing;
tantrums are another kettle of cheese ...
39 posted on 09/06/2002 8:43:23 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: dirtboy
Good post, dirtboy.

I do NOT understand yet another thread like this, at this time.
40 posted on 09/06/2002 8:43:56 AM PDT by justshe
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To: BADJOE
"Now we come to the Free Republic. Once a free wheeling, joyful site for news and discussion of politics, economics, philosophy, ethics and morals. I could not understand the transformation that has taken place in the last six months. Camaraderie, the sense of family, and cooperation seems to have disappeared. Are the Freepers exhibiting the same disdain for the new FR as Americans have for our government?"

Joe,

One thing I think you are missing here is that FR has been undergoing a transformation for 6 years, not 6 month. I think that all of the things you used to love about FR are still present, but they are harder to see through the clamor and smoke. FR is a meeting place of sorts; Jim provides the venue and occasionally tailors the conversation to suit his tastes. Although we act as though it is a public gathering, it is really an open private gathering. I miss the old days where I felt as though I knew all of the posters and we could argue freely. The point is that now there are over 80,000 registered Freepers and there needs to be some more direction and crowd control. Even with the minimal restrictions, it is still possible to find the things you like in Freerepublic, it just takes a little more effort.

Maybe that other board is the place where you need to do the old simple things you used to do here and FR is the place where you come for other thing? I don’t mean that as a slam, just an observation. I have seen many changes here over the years, and I have also seen Jim’s approach over and over again. Sometimes I felt it was certain people having undue influence over him (and using him in the process) and others I felt were Jim just saying “Hey it’s my house and this is how I want the game played. Never have I felt unwelcome to play, but sometimes I have been perturbed by how the game was going.

FR is and always will be a work in progress. Currently I think that it has become to visible not to have an impact, and because of this its agenda will get stronger. If it is promoting an agenda you can not live with then either step back and observe or try to influence the agenda yourself (this is for everyone). If you can’t get what you want, well we all lose sometimes in life and it is best to be a gracious loser who returns to fight another day.

41 posted on 09/06/2002 8:43:58 AM PDT by Woodman
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To: BADJOE
The distinction between properly-construed government (which upholds, properly protects, and properly defends freedom, individual rights and sovereignty, against predators at home - real predators, please, not mere vicemongers - and real or evidentially prospective attackers from abroad) and the improperly-consecrated State (which upholds, protects, and defends nothing beyond its usurped right to plunder her citizens who have been made, effectively, into subjects, and contort that plunder into mechanisms by which she mandates rather than protects her citizens' lives as she, not they, deems fit), is a distinction too easily lost or dismissed in time of real or alleged crisis. To our peril.

We can deny our history and our heritage, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. As a nation, we have come into our full inheritance at a tender age. We proclaim ourselves as, indeed, we are - the defenders of freedom, what remains of it in the world. But we cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home. - Edward R. Murrow.
42 posted on 09/06/2002 8:45:31 AM PDT by BluesDuke
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To: OneidaM; BADJOE
I agree completely. I am hoping that the rest of us just stay funny, and don't get sucked into this.

BADJOE, please Report Abuse and kill this spawn of yours!

43 posted on 09/06/2002 8:45:44 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: BADJOE
I thought you were not a good American if you didn't love our country and hate our government

I have one bumper sticker on my truck. It says "I love my country, I fear my government."

44 posted on 09/06/2002 8:46:26 AM PDT by AUgrad
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To: BADJOE
Et tu, BADJOE?


45 posted on 09/06/2002 8:47:49 AM PDT by denydenydeny
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To: BluesDuke
as usual, Duke, well said ...
46 posted on 09/06/2002 8:47:53 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: HairOfTheDog
Cheese, anyone?


47 posted on 09/06/2002 8:47:55 AM PDT by BluesDuke
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To: Darth Sidious
Oh - Shame on you!
48 posted on 09/06/2002 8:48:07 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: BADJOE
History teaches some very good lessons.

History also repeats itself...as it is doing on this very thread.

49 posted on 09/06/2002 8:48:47 AM PDT by dubyagee
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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