Recent job ad: H1 transfers (Taking American Jobs)

Dice.com

[1stFreedom]

Folks,

I've been looking for a job for weeks without success. While searching on Dice.com, I found an ad targeting anyone with an H1 visa to transfer!

Whoever says workers on visas don't take jobs from Americans is smoking crack.

Foreign workers send money "home" thereby taking money out of the US economy. They take both old and new jobs away from Citizens. This might be fine during times of economic boom, but it's a shame during times like now.

Call and write your representatives in Congress asking them to, on an emergency basis, deny ALL H1 and L1 visas and related transfers. They may give you the excuse that they don't want to have the jobs shipped overseas, but don't accept that excuse. Ask them to impose heavy tarrifs or taxes on corporations that relocate thier IT work.

Tons of IT people have been out of work for some time now, and it's reached a boiling point.

I hate to say it, but I think we'll have more success with the Dems then the Pubbies.

(One thing the Pubbies are not considering is that many IT professionals are in fact incorporated and are small businesses.)

DICE Search results:

Title: H1 transfers Skills: JAVA, J2EE, EJB, oracle, DB2, SQL Server, Seibel, .net, VB, ASP, peoplesoft, CRM, Business analyst, 21 cfr PART 11, QA testers

Date: 4-7-2003 Location: Edison, NJ Area code: 732

Tax term: FULLTIME Pay rate: DOE Length: permanent

Position ID: AS202 Dice ID: 10108743

Job description: We are looking for a qualified candidates who are looking to transfer their H1. The candidates will be interviewed in their respective fields by experts and if selected will be considered for further training conducted in house. Salary will be based on skills. Local candidates preferred but is not a limitation. Good communication skills required.

Requirements: JAVA, J2EE, EJB, oracle, DB2, SQL Server, Seibel, .net, VB, ASP, peoplesoft, CRM, Business analyst, 21 cfr PART 11, QA testers Travel required: none Telecommute: no

[MineralMan]

"The companies WENT to the government to create this program in the first place. That is the flaw in your logic. And they created a program where the people brought over are basically indentured to a company - changing jobs resets the entire H1-B process."

Yup. There's no reason for the government to change things. Nobody with any influence is asking them to, either. CitiBank doesn't want an end to the program. Neither does Dell, or Microsoft, or any of the other giants. Why would they?

Anyone who expects the current, or any other, administration to end this program is dreaming. Campaign contributions are far more important than individual votes, and one doesn't mess with the big contributors.

Bush is not going to solve this.

[MineralMan]

"BUT on the other hand we as Americans have EVERY right to demand that the gubmint keep foreigners out of OUR country. "

Sure, you have the right. The government will ignore you, of course, but you have the right to demand anything you want. Just be realistic. You ain't going to get it.

[Viva Le Dissention]

So what are you going to do when they flood US foreigners who do your job for a fraction?

As I stated before, I fully support open immigration and I would also fully expect my company, were it to find a fellow worker who could perform the same job at a lower cost, to fire me and hire the other worker. I'm confident enough in my abilities to bet that day will never come.

And if it does, I'll tip my hat and move on. Life goes on.

[Viva Le Dissention]

The companies WENT to the government to create this program in the first place.

Yes, you are absolutely correct in this statement, however, it was the government that created the problem in the first place by creating immigration restrictions. In a world of open immigration, arbitrary designations cease to exist.

[dirtboy]

Bush is not going to solve this.

Neither are the current crop of Democrats - they're too beholden to Silicon Valley interests. I think there may be a chance to have a third party form over the ruins of the Democrats that addresses issues such as H1-B and L1 programs and illegal immigration and working issues - basically what the old-school Dems were about before they went bonkers catering to communists and victim groups. And, just as the Whigs were eclipsed by the new Republican Party, so will the Dems go the way of the Whigs. I'd rather have a world where the Dems aren't so damned concerned about the stock market - all it got us was the mother of all market bubbles.

[Viva Le Dissention]

and I'd love to continue this discussion further, but I have a meeting at six that I must attend.

I bid you all an affectionate (if only temporary) farewell.

[BrooklynGOP]

I'm confident enough in my abilities to bet that day will never come.

I got news for you, buddy. 1 billion people in China. Almost that in India. They can hire 2 guys to do your job for less.

[dirtboy]

Yes, you are absolutely correct in this statement, however, it was the government that created the problem in the first place by creating immigration restrictions. In a world of open immigration, arbitrary designations cease to exist.

There is a very good reason for immigration restrictions - they keep immigration at a pace at which this country can assimilate whoever is coming in. Do YOU want to have half a billion people move here over the next three years in the name of open immigration?

[clamper1797]

Have we NOT discussed this before ... I'll summarize ...

Someone who has spent many years in college gaining a degree and many more years building a career is probably NOT going to start over at 50. Granted there will be an exception here and there BUT there are more than a million high tech workers out of work. They are NOT all going to .. or even be able to start over again.

50 year old 25 year career Joe Engineer is NOT just going to quit his life's profession pull up stakes and move to Podunk to start a business selling widgets because he is laid off ... get REAL.

It would be bad enough if it were just the downturn causing the problem. BUT importing foreign workers at this time is a major slap in the face.

[dirtboy]

I'm confident enough in my abilities to bet that day will never come.

We'll save you a lot at the trailer park.

[clamper1797]

I have more faith in our Republic than you apparently

[MineralMan]

"Bush is not going to solve this.

Neither are the current crop of Democrats - they're too beholden to Silicon Valley interests.
"

Neither is going to solve it. Silicon Valley isn't the only culprit here. Everybody's taking things offshore or bringing in foreign workers. Stop the H1-B program and more stuff will just move offshore.

Yes, many Americans are ticked about it, but not ticked enough to move their business to companies that don't do this. In fact, it's almost impossible to find the companies that are not doing this.

It's not just the Democrats. The Republicans are doing the same thing. They may give lip-service to "American Jobs for Americans," but when you look at their votes, it's clear they don't mean it.

Find your own business is what I advise young kids. Work for someone, but be working toward establishing your own business. It's the only way.

We're returning to a cottage-industry economy, IMO, but it's a high-tech cottage now. Take a look around the internet. While the big companies are getting hosed all over the place, there are thousands or 10s of thousands of small entrepreneurs who are doing just fine. They're bootstrapping their little businesses and growing them, keeping them modest and making money at it.

I was amazed when I switched to working for myself. The internet offers me a global customer base for my wierd little business, and it's growing all the time.

Phooey on the corporations. Screw 'em, I say.

[clamper1797]

AND as a As a foreign born, naturalized citizen you have EVERY right to be / work here ....

[MineralMan]

"Someone who has spent many years in college gaining a degree and many more years building a career is probably NOT going to start over at 50. Granted there will be an exception here and there BUT there are more than a million high tech workers out of work. They are NOT all going to .. or even be able to start over again.

"

I did. No big deal. I'm a lot happier now than I was, and making almost as much money.

[dirtboy]

I did. No big deal. I'm a lot happier now than I was, and making almost as much money.

My dad did that in his late forties after getting laid off from a mid-level executive position with a Fortune 50 that is now a Fortune nothing. He made $600 bucks his first year but ended up doubling his income. He had this stuff hit him 20 years ago.

[dirtboy]

Phooey on the corporations. Screw 'em, I say.

I'm actually working in a large corporation for the first time in my life as a contractor. Amazing place.

[HumbleButExceedinglyAccurate]

I think it's worth pointing out that the cause of the IT jobs slowdown has a heck of a lot more to do with the bottom dropping out of the stock market than it does with the H1B program.

It's probably true that IT professionals are complaining right now about their difficulty finding jobs and attributing the problem to cheap overseas IT labor.

But the boom years we experienced in the late 90's were primarily associated with the creation of internet startup companies. The reason there are fewer jobs now is because there are fewer tech companies around to hire IT workers than there were 3 years ago.

Would eliminating or scaling back the H1B program be a good idea? Probably. But until the market recovers (which I believe it will), it's going to continue to be difficult for startup companies to get funding.

The goal here should really be to see that these businesses are more successful. Focusing on the foreign labor market doesn't really do anything to accomplish that goal. You may get some sense of satisfaction out of preventing them from hiring people from India, but in the end if they're out of business and you're still out of work, what's the point?

Finally, I disagree with your assertion that GOD gives you the right to work. Who told you that?

[clamper1797]

Actually I plan on it too ... and have tried in the past ... BUT realize that we are probably the exception. The other problem not discussed is that if ALL the laid off
high tech workers went into sell say insurance ... our country will be dependant on foreigners for our high tech industry ... you know ... the stuff that keeps us the only super power and enables us to defeat our enemies even though we are outnumbered by them. I, for one, am not willing to capitulate our high tech industry to foreigners for an easy buck.

[Steel and Fire and Stone]

You only show your ignorance, like many other projectionists < SIC &GT here....The whole computer science major was tough at Cal State University Chico. Over half of the students were Asian, not because salaries were in the tank...But the Americans at the dominantly white school refused to take a tough major. They weren't hungry enough. You don't know what you're talking about.

Hmmm, now this poses some interesting questions. Because of new quotas in the past 5 or so years, Asians have had a tougher time getting into California Universities. But in 1992, Asians were a "preferred" quota category. How many Asians went to CA State Universities because of that quota, and how many of the "lazy whites" never made it through the front door because they were not in a preferred class?

How many students at Chico were Asian? I know Berkley has a high percentage, so having a program filled by "half" Asians might be no more than representative of the population.

Are there "lazy whites" out there? Sure there are. There are also lazy Asians, and others. (There are also some racists, bigoted Asians out there, as evidenced by your post.) Some are American's. Some are foreign nationals. My own wife and kids are Asian. I'm white.

I have many, many friends out there who are both foreign nationals, and here (now, or originally) on H1B's. About half, incidentally, are white (British, Irish, Canadian, South African, etc.).

I have no problem with my foreign friends working here, and for those who seek to become citizens here, more power to them. They're just the sort of hard working individuals, and future patriotic Americans, we need here. However, in my experience, at least half of the foreign nationals I work with have no intention of becoming, or contributing to the U.S. as a citizen. THey are taking the quick buck, and in fact, some are very hostile to the USA.

There may be "no right to work" in the USA, as some have pointed out on this post. It is the obligation of the U.S government to protect Americans first and foremost. That includes protection against anti-capitalistic "dumping" of resources (money, workers, or goods) on the US market. If the US government does not protect it's citizens, it cedes it's moral authority to govern. Foreign Nationals have NO RIGHT to work in the USA, Constitutional, moral, or otherwise.

I'm sorry, partner, but it is YOU who lack knowledge.

By the way, I'm one of those "lazy Americans" who put himself though college, paid his own way, served his country and put his life on the line to defend it, paid for his own IT education, and in part, for the experience too, and passed the toughest IT training program in the world. Admittance was very selective, gained only by extensive interviews, plus a one year internship, and where over 2/3's eventually washed out of the program before completion. Most of those who finished, by the way, were lazy Americans like myself. I don't know what color or the nationality of their parents, because that kind stuff has just never mattered to me.

FReegards... SFS