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OUR MERCENARY US MILITARY
self | 5/1/04 | self

Posted on 05/01/2004 6:00:08 PM PDT by raysol

Have gun will travel/NOT

Compare & contrast these 2 quotes given that our troops are in over 100 foreign lands(where we dont belong).So much for original intent .Guess we know better than the founding fathers who werent serious after all.

* “America goes not abroad [i.e., overseas] in search of monsters to destroy. She [i.e., America] is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition, which assume the colors of patriotism and usurp the standards of freedom.” (From his address for Independence Day, 1821)

(sounds just like US in Iraq & elsewhere )bring ALL our troops home now.

*Henry Kissinger (in the book Final days by Woodward & Bernstein) In Haigs presence then Secretary of State HK referred pointedly to military men as dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns for our foreign policy.

Apparently not much has changed since then(Vietnam)


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: livingdeadgirl; memberofundead; pinata; vkpac; zot; zotbait

1 posted on 05/01/2004 6:00:08 PM PDT by raysol
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To: raysol
This is not coherent.
2 posted on 05/01/2004 6:02:18 PM PDT by Threepwood
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To: Threepwood
Nor will it be long-lasting.....I predict a ZOT in three....two....
3 posted on 05/01/2004 6:04:23 PM PDT by Texas Eagle
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To: raysol
That's not gonna win you friends, here.
4 posted on 05/01/2004 6:06:42 PM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno World!")
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To: raysol
I like to have a few beers sometimes myself, but I mean really...
5 posted on 05/01/2004 6:07:08 PM PDT by Living Stone (The following statement is true: The preceeding statement is false.)
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To: raysol
The World has changed. Back then it didn't make sense to take the war to Britain.

And back then you didn't have foreigners bringing terrorist activities to our soil (ever hear of the "September 11, 2001 Attack on America?).

So you want to sit back and let them bring it to us...again?

Should we have not gotten involved in WWI or WWII?

Should we not go after those whose only aim in life is the death of us (I assume that includes you, too)?

If our forefathers had foresight and could see today, it might be written differently. Or if they were here today, then in hindsight, they might change it.

I really don't think you mean that America should only defend herself when it comes to her own soil. Seems like that would be a risk of "too little, too late".

But maybe I misunderstood your post, too.

Doesn't it scare you to agree with the likes of Michael Moore, Kerry and other Socialists?
6 posted on 05/01/2004 6:07:35 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: raysol
I'm confused. I wasn't until I read your post, but now that I've stop reading it, I'm okay again.
7 posted on 05/01/2004 6:07:45 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Why the long face, John?)
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To: raysol
Lay down the crack pipe, please.

America's Fifth Column ... watch PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
http://12thman.us/media/jihad.rm (Requires RealPlayer)

Who is Steve Emerson?

8 posted on 05/01/2004 6:08:26 PM PDT by JCG
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To: raysol
A DU Sleeper Account?
9 posted on 05/01/2004 6:09:06 PM PDT by cmsgop ( It Puts The Lotion in the Basket or it gets the Hose Again........)
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To: raysol
Bring on the Viking Kitties
10 posted on 05/01/2004 6:09:21 PM PDT by John Will
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Very Well Said.
11 posted on 05/01/2004 6:09:58 PM PDT by cmsgop ( It Puts The Lotion in the Basket or it gets the Hose Again........)
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To: Threepwood
This is not coherent.

LOL! You noticed that too, huh?

12 posted on 05/01/2004 6:12:29 PM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: raysol
Let me edit this:
"The World has changed. Back then it didn't make sense to take the war to Britain"
I should probably have rephrased that.

They wrote that to make a point that America should not be the aggressor.

And in the War on Terror, we are not.

We are defending ourselves, and others who cannot defend themselves, from further onslaught.

I don't even see anything we have done as "pre emptive". Iraq had plenty of time to comply, and constantly did not. Shooting our aircraft in a no fly zone is a big no-no. We even had assistance from Iraqiis and other Islamic communities in remving Saddam and establishing a Govt there (in process). I guess I don't get your point. Maybe turn off CNN.

13 posted on 05/01/2004 6:12:36 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: cmsgop
hey, even a blind squirrel bumps into a nut now and then.
14 posted on 05/01/2004 6:13:09 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: raysol; Zavien Doombringer; jriemer; MeekOneGOP; TheBigB; Constitution Day; mhking; ctlpdad; ...
*sniff sniff*

Izzat... ozone I smell?


15 posted on 05/01/2004 6:13:31 PM PDT by 4mycountry ("Completely concretely" - - That's "the power of the 'Freeper'.")
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To: raysol
Hi! Im Larry Klayman......


16 posted on 05/01/2004 6:14:34 PM PDT by cmsgop ( It Puts The Lotion in the Basket or it gets the Hose Again........)
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To: cmsgop
How about from the halls of Montezuma....

The US has faced islamic terrorism in a previous century in the form of the Barbary Pirates, what did we do about it?


KICKED THEIR ARAB ASSES, It worked then, it will work now.

17 posted on 05/01/2004 6:15:26 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (What do you call children in Palestine? Unexploded ordinance.)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Just make sure the male squirrel does not bump into 2 nuts...
18 posted on 05/01/2004 6:16:09 PM PDT by cmsgop ( It Puts The Lotion in the Basket or it gets the Hose Again........)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Summary:

A nuke can ruin your whole day.
19 posted on 05/01/2004 6:17:47 PM PDT by DB ()
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To: raysol
I just looked over your posting history. I can't tell if you're a troll or a moron.
20 posted on 05/01/2004 6:17:59 PM PDT by Tamzee (Kerry's just a gigolo, and everywhere he goes, people know the part he's playing...)
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To: Tamsey
Could be both....
21 posted on 05/01/2004 6:19:10 PM PDT by RichInOC (...somebody had to say it...why not me?)
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To: Tamsey
I can't tell if you're a troll or a moron.

Not mutually exclusive.

;-)

22 posted on 05/01/2004 6:19:50 PM PDT by dighton
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To: RichInOC; dighton
What was I thinking... the two often do go hand-in-hand ;-)
23 posted on 05/01/2004 6:27:08 PM PDT by Tamzee (Kerry's just a gigolo, and everywhere he goes, people know the part he's playing...)
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To: 4mycountry
Hmm? Could be. 30 posts total in almost 3 years ????

24 posted on 05/01/2004 6:28:15 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is ONLY ONE good Democrat: one that has just been voted OUT of POWER ! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: MeekOneGOP
Nothing's impossible. I've seen people who have posted everyday for years turn out to be trolls.
25 posted on 05/01/2004 6:30:33 PM PDT by 4mycountry ("Completely concretely" - - That's "the power of the 'Freeper'.")
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To: Tamsey
I can't tell if you're a troll or a moron.

Same difference, friend.

26 posted on 05/01/2004 6:32:35 PM PDT by 4mycountry ("Completely concretely" - - That's "the power of the 'Freeper'.")
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To: DB
*embarrassed* how to say what took me 5 minutes to type in 10 seconds! Argh!
27 posted on 05/01/2004 6:34:30 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: cmsgop
and get hurt jogging in D.C. late at night...
28 posted on 05/01/2004 6:35:08 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Tamsey
New word:

Trollon.
29 posted on 05/01/2004 6:35:55 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: raysol; 4mycountry; Zavien Doombringer; trussell; jriemer; Constitution Day; William Martel; ...
Oh, let's just play my favorite game, "Stop The Tape!", and see what we've got...

Compare & contrast these 2 quotes given that our troops are in over 100 foreign lands(where we dont belong)

What quotes? Atrributed to Whom? You don't even mention who's quoted. I can only assume you mean James Monroe. Amazing that you quote the author of the Monroe Doctrine, who ADVOCATED US supremacy in the Western Hemisphere, as a bash attempt against the Bush Doctrine.

And as far as "Final Days" is concerned, a second-hand "quote" by a discredited quasi-journalist who made up Deep Throat, is hardly admissible.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication in all the wars of interest and intrigue

Sounds a lot like the UN, to me...

Haigs presence then Secretary of State HK referred pointedly to military men as dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns for our foreign policy.

And the classic Democrat tactic of accusing your opponents of what you already do.

You have been found wanting. Therefore I pronounce your doom:


30 posted on 05/01/2004 6:36:02 PM PDT by Old Sarge
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To: Admin Moderator
Arator?
31 posted on 05/01/2004 6:45:57 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Old Sarge
Kissenger merely expresses the sentiments of what those in power really think of us. Not all perhaps, but most.

Military Men Are Dumb, Stupid Animals
author: doubleplusgood
many people have asked about the origin of a quote from Henry Kissinger regarding military men, which came from Woodward and Bernstein's "The Final Days" (1976). Here is the complete paragraph--and for context, the one following--excerpted from pages 194-195 of the second Touchstone paperback edition (1994).

Alexander Haig, newly appointed White House chief of staff, greets newsmen in H. R. Haldeman's former office on May 4, 1973. (UPI / Bettmann)




In their December 1975 Foreword to "The Final Days", Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein state that the book is based on interviews and re-interviews with 394 people, concentrating on the last 100 days of Nixon's administration. None of the quotes or information in the book is individually footnoted or referenced--they do mention that "we did not accord equal weight to all sources," and that "nothing in this book has been reconstructed without accounts from at least two people."

Authors Woodward and Bernstein also note that "The Final Days" is "the work of four people. Scott Armstrong, a former Senate Watergate Committee investigator, and Al Kamen, a free-lance writer/researcher, assisted us full time in the reporting, research and some of the writing."

Kissinger's quote regarding miltary men comes from Chapter 14, which extensively discusses Al Haig, Kissinger and other Nixon staff advisors' negotiations and differences over national security issues during the 1969-1974 period.

The exact, direct quote marks begin with the word 'dumb' and terminate after the word 'used'.

Here is the FULL KISSINGER QUOTE verbatim from the bottom two lines of page 194 to line 14 of page 195:




[paragraph]
In Haig's presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy. Kissinger often took up a post outside the doorway to Haig's office and dressed him down in front of the secretaries for alleged acts of incompetence with which Haig was not even remotely involved. Once when the Air Force was authorized to resume bombing of North Vietnam, the planes did not fly on certain days because of bad weather. Kissinger assailed Haig. He complained bitterly that the generals had been screamin for the limits to be taken off but that now their pilots were afraid to go up in a little fog. The country needed generals who could win battles, Kissinger said, not good briefers like Haig.

[paragraph]
On another occasion, when Haig was leaving for a trip to Cambodia to meet with Premier Lon Nol, Kissinger escorted him to a staff car, where reporters and a retinue of aides waited. As Haig bent to get into the automobile, Kissinger stopped him and began polishing the single star on his shoulder. "Al, if you're a good boy, I'll get you another one," he said.



SOURCE:

Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein
The Final Days
second Touchstone paperback edition (1994)
Chapter 14, pp. 194-195
https://secure.marketwatch.com/discussions/msgReader.asp?siteId=mktw&parentId=4&forumId=46&boardId=38918&msgId=37234
32 posted on 05/01/2004 6:48:44 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Old Sarge
(Sarge, none of the above is *mine*, I pasted from another site, link is at bottom)
33 posted on 05/01/2004 6:49:34 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: raysol
AMERICA,HOME OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE.
34 posted on 05/01/2004 7:10:34 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry's been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security!)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
I like it! Trollunatic works as well ;-)
35 posted on 05/01/2004 7:51:41 PM PDT by Tamzee (Kerry's just a gigolo, and everywhere he goes, people know the part he's playing...)
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To: Tamsey
And when they keep coming back for more, we can say the "Trollomatic" is spitting them out by the dozens!
36 posted on 05/01/2004 7:53:01 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: 4mycountry; raysol; Zavien Doombringer; jriemer; MeekOneGOP; TheBigB; Constitution Day; mhking; ...
These terrorists and the Japanese are the only two to attack us on our own soil for 200 years and they killed 3000 people. It's foolish not to after them; the alternative is being a sitting duck.


37 posted on 05/01/2004 8:18:20 PM PDT by Lady Jag (I dreamed I surfed all day in my monthly donor wonder bra [https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate]))
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To: raysol
as wise as the Founding Fathers were, they were not prescient. they could not have imagined the world as it has become.

then, the US was a small and isolated nation, protected by wide oceans, with unlimited resources for its limited technological society.

today, the US is a vast country with immense technological requirements, whose security is no longer guaranteed by the oceans.

different realities must be faced with different strategies and tactics.

to do otherwise is to be a numbskull, and a suicide waiting to happen.

how about you stop waiting, and do it now?
just do us the favor of not insisting on taking the rest of us along for the ride, ok?
38 posted on 05/01/2004 9:36:31 PM PDT by King Prout (poets and philosophers should NEVER pretend to Engineering... especially SOCIAL Engineering!)
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To: 4mycountry
she is comin' sister mary...
39 posted on 05/01/2004 9:38:54 PM PDT by King Prout (poets and philosophers should NEVER pretend to Engineering... especially SOCIAL Engineering!)
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To: sciencediet
The quote from the book Final Days came from Henry Kissinger who was secretary of state at the time &
the other belongs to John Quincy Adams who knew
better & more than anyone here especially the
naysayers who falsely think they are smarter & wiser
than the founding fathers which is laughable & absurd.
They meant just what they said & I stand by them now
& will defer to their judgement over anyone here surely.
No wonder they didnt favor having standing armies even in US given the adventuresome imperialistic force we are now.
40 posted on 05/01/2004 9:45:57 PM PDT by raysol
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To: King Prout
Au contraire.They were prescient about human nature,empire
& tyranny as they lived under it & their principles are so
timeless.Standing armies remain the bane of liberty now as
then to US & the rest of the planet & to hold they would
accept having our troops playing globalcop in 100 plus lands is nuts.Its thats limited govt then I dont want to
consider what unlimited govt would be.That so many of my fellow citizens substitute their own judgement over the
framers who were the best & brightest America has had then or now & I can count on one hand those in US today who could hold a candle to them or are in their league.
41 posted on 05/01/2004 10:04:43 PM PDT by raysol
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To: raysol
oh, wow, you are still among the living.

the founding fathers could not have predicted ICBMs, nukes, bombers, telecommunications-based espionage, global national interests based on need (not want: NEED) for specific natural resources unavailable domestically, biowarfare, etc...

If the US did not have a potent standing army and, yes, and empire of sorts, there would be no US. We would have been swamped and eaten by nations which DID have those attributes.

Face facts.

oh, so you know: your generalized incoherence, lack of punctuation, and use of such PC terms as "framers" marks you for a DU-troll.
42 posted on 05/01/2004 10:11:51 PM PDT by King Prout (poets and philosophers should NEVER pretend to Engineering... especially SOCIAL Engineering!)
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To: raysol
A hand full of men couldn't destroy an entire city of 10,000,000 in John Quincy Adams day.

Nor could they ever imagine such a thing.

As much as you don't think so, things do change.

Either you change with it, or you parish. You don't get a redo if you get it wrong.
43 posted on 05/01/2004 11:32:01 PM PDT by DB ()
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To: 4mycountry
Oh, yeah. I have seen that a few times too. And with his further posts here now,
I'm thinking more so, too ....

44 posted on 05/02/2004 3:35:15 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is ONLY ONE good Democrat: one that has just been voted OUT of POWER ! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: raysol
Excuses excuses & nag nag nag.I dont concern myself with the
opinions of the uninformed or banal cheerleaders for the
sorry status quo.The founding fathers would NOT be in Iraq
let alone support that phony conservative Big Brother Bush other than to impeach that presidential imposter who isnt
dit to be in any public office.Jail to the Chief.
45 posted on 05/02/2004 12:56:35 PM PDT by raysol
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To: raysol
Excuses excuses & nag nag nag.I dont concern myself with the
opinions of the uninformed or banal cheerleaders for the
sorry status quo.The founding fathers would NOT be in Iraq
let alone support that phony conservative Big Brother Bush other than to impeach that presidential imposter who isnt
fit to be in any public office.Jail to the Chief.
46 posted on 05/02/2004 12:58:24 PM PDT by raysol
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To: raysol
Just goes to show, even a drunk can stumble into a forum.

Sleep it off, up the dosage, do what you have to do.
47 posted on 05/02/2004 8:43:28 PM PDT by epigone73
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To: raysol
Really?
And your thoughts on, say, Wesley Clark and Bill Clinton?

And oh yeah, I'm a merc alright.
Thanks.
48 posted on 05/03/2004 7:59:14 AM PDT by Darksheare (Fortune for the day: I call upon the gods of STERNO and MATCHLIGHT to take care of the evil DUers!)
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To: raysol
Nice of you to post once in awhile in 2001, 13 times in 2002, once in all of 2003, and a grand total so far of 7 posts this year, three articles, and four replies.
And your last one is so incoherent and inconsistent that it makes me on my worst day of weird humor look like a cold concrete sane person.
So what's the story?
Agent provocateur?
49 posted on 05/03/2004 8:04:28 AM PDT by Darksheare (Fortune for the day: I call upon the gods of STERNO and MATCHLIGHT to take care of the evil DUers!)
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To: raysol
"presidential imposter"

GORE LOST you swishy panted pantywaist.
Even the LIB MEDIA admitted this after MUCH recounting.
50 posted on 05/03/2004 6:39:25 PM PDT by Darksheare (Fortune for the day: I call upon the gods of STERNO and MATCHLIGHT to take care of the evil DUers!)
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