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Amazon ^ | March 2004 | Anatoly T. Fomenko

Posted on 07/11/2004 9:34:44 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

History: Fiction or Science? History: Fiction or Science?
by Anatoly T. Fomenko


TOPICS: Agriculture; Arts/Photography; Astronomy; Books/Literature; Business/Economy; Computers/Internet; Conspiracy; Education; Food; Gardening; Government; Health/Medicine; History; Hobbies; Humor; Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous; Music/Entertainment; Outdoors; Pets/Animals; Poetry; Politics; Reference; Religion; Science; Society; Sports; TV/Movies; Travel; UFO's; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: archaeology; avaris; barryfell; biblicalchronology; books; brianfagan; climate; davidrohl; economic; exodus; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; heyerdahl; history; iceage; ipuwer; magazines; movies; music; peterjames; rogerhenry; rohl; tvf; velikovsky
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To: Fred Nerks; mmercier; Swordmaker; USF; vannrox
In his bio of Eugene Shoemaker, David Levy, astronomer and codiscoverer of Comet SL-9 (he and Carolyn Shoemaker are both in the top ten comet discoverers -- most comets are now discovered by robotic means so no person gets credit), mentioned Velikovsky: "[i]n 1950 Worlds in Collision was published... Velikovsky inferred from historical facts and mythology that an unlikely series of comet impacts caused some biblical events... The details of Velikovsky's ideas were so strongly ridiculed that his theme that impacts have indeed affected the Earth, was clouded and lost." While there are no impacts of comets in WiC, the fact that Levy alluded to the shameful actions directed against Velikovsky speaks well for his character and fairness as a scientist and writer.
Shoemaker: the Man Who Made an Impact
by David H. Levy

121 posted on 07/13/2005 11:05:56 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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[see also Eastbound's post at the in reply to link; I didn't ping EB because it's a big post and EB's post is from a while back]
The Olmec Enigma
by Zecharia Sitchin
Once it was conceded (very grudgingly!) that the 'Olmecs' did indeed represent the earliest or even Mother Civilization of Mesoamerica, the date of their arrival was at first set at about 250 B.C.; then at about 500 B.C.; then farther back and back, until 1500 B.C. was acknowledged. My conclusion that the Olmec presence in the New World went back at least 5,000 years, to circa 3000 B.C., was reached by many paths. The first one was an attempt to identify the great god of Mesoamerica, the Winged Serpent (Quetzalcoatl to the Aztecs, Kukulkan to the Mayas), and the significance of his promise to return to those lands on the first day of a 52-year cycle, (AD 1519, when the Aztec king Montezuma believed that the appearance of the Spanish conquistador Cortez was such a Return, coincided with the anticipated sacred date).

Reproduction is permitted if accompanied by the statement:

© Z. Sitchin 2001
Reproduced by permission.
Sitchin was a follower of Immanuel Velikovsky. Later he came up with his The Twelfth Planet which was reviewed twice in issue IV:4 of KRONOS, the first by Roger Wescott, the other by C. Leroy Ellenberger.
The Pitfalls of Radiocarbon Dating
by Immanuel Velikovsky
(originally published in Pensee issue 4 in 1973)
The Mexicologist, Professor George Kubler of Yale, stressed that certain traditions contained in Mesoamerican heritage were referred by me to events of the pre-Christian era. Kubler insisted that this heritage could not date from the 8th to 4th pre-Christian centuries, but rather was generated in the 4th to 8th century of the Christian era. But in December, 1956, the National Geographical Society in conjunction with the Smithsonian Institution made it known that excavations at LaVenta proved by radiocarbon that the classical period of the Meso-American civilizations (Olmec, Toltec, Maya, etc.) needs to be pushed back by a full thousand years and ascribed not to the 4th to 8th centuries of the Christian era but to the 8th to 4th centuries before that era.
In April 1967 the Yale Scientific Magazine published "Venus -- a Youthful Planet" by I.V. (written in 1963), in which Quetzalcoatl/Kukulcan, "the Morning-Evening Star of the Mayas, Olmecs, Toltecs, and Aztecs" is mentioned. The article was reprinted in KRONOS IV:3 in February 1979.

In 1966, in the book The Velikovsky Affair, I.V. noted that the Smithsonian and the National Geographic Society published the scientific dates for artifacts excavated at La Venta -- 800 to 400 BC -- in 1956, twenty years before SItchin scribbled his drivel, and even this chapter by I.V. was ten years ahead of Sitchin.

And of course, the Mesoamerican civilizations are mentioned a number of times in Worlds In Collision -- published in 1950 -- including in the chapter "The Fifty-two Year Period" (begins p 153).

UFO: The Science and Phenomena Magazine for June/July 2003 has an article by Charles Ginenthal, "Immanuel Velikovsky Revisited", and an interview conducted by Don Ecker, "Zecharia Sitchin on Immanuel Velikovsky". Ginenthal is author of several books on Velikovsky and editor of The Velikovskian.

The Sitchin interview is a hoot. Sitchin claims that he was researching ancient times back when Worlds In Collision first came out, and that his daughter had given him the book for his birthday. That would make Sitchin between 80 and 90 years old, estimating that his daughter was at least ten in 1950 (that's when WiC was first published), and that she was born when Sitchin was 20 years old.

Sitchin also claims that Velikovsky "did not mention, even once, Sumer or the Sumerians in his writings. I do not know how he missed it, unless he found it contradicted his work."

The fact is, Velikovsky mentions Sumer, Sumerians, and/or the Sumerian culture or written records at least five times in three of his published books, once in Harpers (1951), and in Pensee'. This is an example of Sitchin saying more than he knows, or perhaps it's merely a fabrication.

Sitchin also spouts his usual mumbo-jumbo about the significance of certain Mesopotamian customs and his view of their origin. The fact is, Sitchin's claim that the Earth originated in a collision (3.9 billion years ago, according to Sitchin in this interview) between two bodies, at least one of which no longer exists, isn't supported by Sumerian legend. Period. There's simply nothing of the kind in surviving Sumerian legend.

There's also nothing to his claim of a planet on an eccentric, 3600 year long orbit around the Sun. There is no such planet. As the former Velikovsky supporter, C. Leroy Ellenberger pointed out in his contemporary review (KRONOS Vol. 4:4) of Sitchin's first cult classic, The Twelfth Planet, the orbital characteristics Sitchin claims are given by the Sumerian records aren't consistent with laws of planetary motion.

Ellenberger also pointed out that in The Twelfth Planet Sitchin claims that the planet Marduk passed through in 3800 BC, but with a 3600 year orbital period, there must have been a passage in 200 BC, which Sitchin doesn't mention. In the same issue, Roger Wescott also reviews The Twelfth Planet and quotes from it: "all the ancient languages . . . including early Chinese . . . stemmed from one primeval source -- Sumerian." Wescott then points out that Sumerian has no known linguistic relatives, living or dead.

122 posted on 08/10/2005 10:56:02 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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Got these four out of the library on Tuesday. Really just went in to pick up the Mass Extinction Debates...

The Death of Alexander the Great: What - or - Who Really Killed the Young Conqueror of the Known World? The Peloponnesian War The Mass-Extinction Debates: How Science Works in a Crisis Target: America -- Hitler's Plan to Attack the United States
The Death of Alexander the Great:
What - or - Who Really Killed the
Young Conqueror of the Known World?

by Paul Doherty
The Peloponnesian War
by Lawrence Tritle
The Mass-Extinction Debates:
How Science Works in a Crisis

ed by William Glen
Target: America
Hitler's Plan to
Attack the United States

by James P. Duffy


123 posted on 08/11/2005 6:52:11 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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R.Shand, who used to have a large number of pages on the www, went with a pay to play system a few years ago. I've still got a few things of interest, but the URLs are not going to work, so don't write in, okay? :')
Origins of Atlantis
by R. Shand
"Keftiu and Isy [Cyprus] are under awe of thee. I cause them to see their majesty as a young bull. Firm of heart, sharp of horns, who cannot be felled."

"If Solon had inquired more particularly about Keftiu, he would have been told that it was an island far away in the west. The Ipuwer papyrus uses the phrase, 'as far away as Keftiu.'..." -- J. V. Luce, Lost Atlantis: New Light on an Old Legend (1969)
Luce's psychic prediction aside, Keftiu does not refer to Crete, it refers to Cyprus. This term "Isy" probably refers to Crete. IOW, and not surprisingly, Luce had it backwards. Also not surprisingly, Shand once again failed to do his homework. Velikovsky solved this problem decades ago. The Assyrian king Esarhaddon left a record of Tarshish:
Tarshish
by Jan Sammer
The identities of the first two countries mentioned by Esarhaddon are known: Iadanan is Cyprus and Iaman is the Ionian coast of Asia Minor... Had Tarshishi been a city the name would have been preceded by the determinative URU; however, as mentioned above, it has mat for "country". It is also difficult to see how a place in Cilicia would fit the description "from Iadanana and Iaman as far as Tarshishi." Clearly Tarsisi was farther west than either Cyprus or Ionia. These criteria are filled admirably by Crete.
Tarshish
by Immanuel Velikovsky
References to the ships of Tarshish and to a place of that name, in the Old Testament, beginning with the time of Solomon (10th century), to the time of the prophets of the 8th and 7th centuries, make me think that by this designation the Cretan navigators and Crete itself were meant. The Minoan civilization survived until the great catastrophes of the 8th century and it would be strange if it and its maritive activities remained unmentioned in the Old Testament.

The usual explanation puts Tarshish in Spain, though other identifications are offered, like Tarsus, in Asia Minor. One of the old names for Knossos sounds like Tarshish.
Velikovsky also points out that Kaphtor, a place name which occurs many times in the Old Testament, must refer to Cyprus, otherwise there is no term that does [Ages In Chaos, p 201, in footnote: "If Caphtor was not Cyprus, then no name for Cyprus and no mention of the island would be found in the Scriptures, and that would be unlikely because Cyprus is very close to Syria."]. The similarity of Kaphtor and Keftiu (and Cyprus for that matter) is obvious. The Akkadians and Assyrians referred to Egypt as Msr, or "musri", and the Biblical era name for Egypt was Mizraim. On the modern map of Egypt I bought at the locally owned large bookstore the name is given as Egypt, and also "Misr".

The Mycenaeans were the Achaeans, and took over from the Minoans virtually everywhere sometime before the Trojan War. The major towns of the Achaeans were destroyed within fifty years of the war, and many sites were abandoned, never to be rebuilt. Generally the arrival of the Dorians is said to have resulted in their destruction, but as is the case in many places in the world today, some modern Greeks claim that there was no such invasion, that the Dorians were always there.

In Velikovsky's chronology, the Trojan War took place sometime between 720 BC and 687 BC (the latter date being the destruction of Phyrgia).

124 posted on 08/16/2005 9:53:33 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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from the SIS website:
Society for Interdisciplinary StudiesThe Society for Interdisciplinary Studies
The SIS was formed in 1974 in response to a growing interest in the works of modern catastrophists such as Dr Immanuel Velikovsky, stimulating controversy in the fields of cosmology, geology and ancient history. The SIS publishes two high quality journals which have included articles by and about Velikovsky.
Catastrophism CD-RomCatastrophisim: Man Myth and Mayhem in Ancient History and the Sciences. Have there been worldwide catastrophic events in mankind's more recent past? This CD-Rom helps you investigate for yourself.
Immanuel VelikovskyThe Immanuel Velikovsky Archive. Maintained by a team of historians to ensure the integrity and preservation of Velikovsky’s unpublished writings, the Archive is strictly non-profit and its sole purpose is the advancement of education and scholarship.
Kronia CommunicationsKronia Communications
Offering access to a number of sources and products, Kronia aims to bring about a greater understanding of the work of Immanuel Velikovsky and his colleagues. Includes background information, biography, dozens of articles, recent developments in the field such as the Saturn Hypothesis, and a video documentary "Remembering the End of the World"
AeonAeon, A Journal of Myth & Science
First published in 1988, Aeon builds on the works Immanuel Velikovsky, presenting further evidence of catastrophic planetary interactions in historic times. It is devoted to the collection and exploration of archaeo-astronomical traditions and analysis of common patterns in ancient myths from around the world.
The Velikovskian
The Velikovskian journal offers an open discussion of whether there were global cataclysms in human history, their cause, nature and impact of these upheavals. As an important issue in science, history and humanity, it is deserving of our attention. Also features the book, Carl Sagan & Immanuel Velikovsky.

125 posted on 08/18/2005 8:14:44 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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126 posted on 11/12/2005 10:40:14 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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A big thank you goes out to MegaMillions and the Yemen Times.

J A N U A R Y
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127 posted on 01/06/2006 12:03:00 AM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this URL -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/pledge)
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Google Book Search

128 posted on 04/05/2006 11:42:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 75thOVI; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; CGVet58; chilepepper; ckilmer; demlosers; ...
I have some sad news to report. I did a Google search for Robert Compton and found that he'd died in April. I've corresponded with him for, hmm, about fifteen years, and he was a good guy, and a smart guy. He was generous, sending me a copy of another book he'd self-published, as well as a couple gizmos he'd invented (not electronic or anything, just a handy gadget).

Robert had retired perhaps eight years ago and had turned one of his many hobbies into a fulltime thing -- high powered amateur rocketry. Below I've reprised links and quotes regarding his rocket work, and (the reason this is a Velikovsky ping) a link to his book on Velikovsky's chronology revision. I'll be changing my Amazon profile to reflect his decease, as I've been referring people directly to him (via email) when they've wanted to buy one of his remaining copies of the V book. As he said, "it's a good book".

Rest in peace, old bud'. Glad you were right at it right to the end. Sorry I never got to meet you in person.
Badly burned rocket hobbyist dies
by Elizabeth Hume
Sacramento Bee Staff Writer
Friday, April 21, 2006
SACRAMENTO - A man severely burned while building small rockets in his Antelope garage earlier this month died Wednesday night in UC Davis Medical Center, authorities said.

Robert Wayne Compton, 62, was in his garage on Grey Livery Way when the fire started about 7:30 p.m. April 9. The fire was quickly put out, but Compton was severely burned, Sacramento Metro Fire District officials said.

Compton was transported to the Medical Center with burns over more than 30 percent of his body.

An investigation indicated Compton was distilling hydrogen peroxide just before the blaze, district spokesman Engineer Christian Pebbles said.
Static Test of Hydrogen Peroxide Kerosene Motor
by Robert Compton
"Our present plan for the coming year is to develop an 8'' diameter 500 lb/sec throttleable regeneratively cooled motor. The performance of the H2O2/kerosene motors is not trivial producing the highest density impulse of any usable oxidizer/fuel combination. We hope this report will encourage further development among amateur rocket designers."
A guide to Immanuel Velikovsky s Reconstruction of Ancient History: 1550 to 300 BC A guide to Immanuel Velikovsky's
Reconstruction of Ancient History:
1550 to 300 BC

by Robert W Compton

Design notes log, G.O.D. (another title)

The Sacramento L5 Society website still shows Robert as its president.
129 posted on 07/09/2006 2:59:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Wednesday, June 21, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Sorry for the loss of your friend, SunkenCiv. My condolences.


130 posted on 07/09/2006 4:19:17 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: SunkenCiv

Sorry to hear the sad news. Velikovskians should be allowed to live forever...if I'm ever ruler of the universe, I'll see to it.


131 posted on 07/09/2006 7:20:56 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: 75thOVI; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; CGVet58; chilepepper; ckilmer; demlosers; ...
'Exodus Decoded,' Aug. 20, History Channel
by David DiCerto
Catholic News Service
Jacobovici believes that archaeology does support the Bible, though his arguments are based on a rethinking of the events and some chronological tinkering.

First, he sets the Exodus some 300 years earlier than the traditional timeline – to around 1500 B.C. – and identifies the ancient Israelites with the Hyksos, a Semitic people living in Egypt at that time who, according to the program, suddenly fled the country en masse.

The earlier date of the Exodus proves key to Jacobovici's thesis, as it places it at the time of the cataclysmic eruption of the volcano on the Greek island of Santorini, the linchpin to many of the theories proposed. Citing documented modern parallels such as the 1986 Lake Nyos disaster in Cameroon, he believes that much of what the Book of Exodus describes can be explained by a chain reaction of natural phenomena, triggered by the Santorini eruption and a related earthquake.
The equating of the Hebrews (who were held as slaves by the Egyptians) with the Hyksos (who invaded Egypt and ruled over it) is a dangerously stupid idea, and not original to Jacobovici.
132 posted on 08/11/2006 8:07:42 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

'In Ages in Chaos I have exposed the untruth of Manetho's identification of the Israelites with the Hyksos. Manetho was an Egyptian historian of the third pre-Christian century writing in Greek. The hatred that until then was directed against the almost legendary Hyksos, the early conquerors and exploiters of Egypt, was from then on directed against the Jewish people. I showed also that the Hyksos, known to the Egyptians as the Amu, were the same as the Amalekites of the Bible who dominated the Near East, as well as Palestine, during the long period of the wandering in the desert and of the Judges; I quoted numerous old Arabian authors who describe the conquest of Syria-Palestine and Egypt by the Amalekites and the domination of Egypt for four or five centuries by the Amalekite dynasties of kings.



'The mode of exploitation of Egypt by the Amu as described by the Egyptian sources, and of Palestine by the Amalekites as described by the biblical books, was identical; and, most important, it was shown that it was King Saul, the first king of the Israelites, who succeeded in terminating the Amalekite rule by capturing their stronghold, el-Arish, which is but the ancient Avaris, together with their last king, Agog.



'The Jewish people harboured a deep hatred of the Amalekites from the days of the wandering in the desert, where the former, tired and thirsty, were mercilessly pillaged by the Amalekites and Medianites who would regularly invade the country with their numerous cattle before the harvest. This hatred was kept alive not only through all the centuries of Israel's and Judah's life in their own land, but also through the long period of their diaspora, or world exile, down to our own days.



'The Jewish historian of the first century of the present era, Josephus Flavius, accepted Manetho's identification of the Israelite's with the Hyksos, and by that time the anti-Semitism of which Manetho three centuries earlier was the first known literary source had already spread in the ancient East.'

Ages In Chaos. Immanuel Velikovsky.

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/hyksos.html


133 posted on 08/11/2006 2:38:06 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (ENEMY + MEDIA = ENEMEDIA)
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To: FairOpinion

Pushing Gravity: New Perspectives on Le Sages Theory of Gravitation Pushing Gravity:
New Perspectives on
Le Sage's Theory of Gravitation

edited by Matthew R. Edwards


134 posted on 08/12/2006 7:17:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Heard this in a training today. Not bad for a sword swallower.
"We would rather be ruined than changed;
We would rather die in our dread
Than climb the cross of the moment
And let our illusions die." -- W.H. Auden

135 posted on 08/28/2006 5:19:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: GoLightly

Thanks for the link you posted to me at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1692648/posts !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69CJa22vPIA

See the first message of this thread.


136 posted on 08/31/2006 9:01:21 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Natural Process: That Environmental Laws May Serve the Laws of Nature Natural Process:
That Environmental Laws May
Serve the Laws of Nature

by Mark Edward Vande Pol
(FReeper Carry Okie)
photo


137 posted on 11/26/2006 7:02:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv (I last updated my profile on Thursday, November 16, 2006 https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam
I had a coupon that would expire on the 31st, so I swung in, and found this. Looks like the first 100 or so pages are actually Wilson's unsubstantiated speculation as seen in the title, the rest a regurgitation of stuff like "The Hiram Key". IOW, this should be good for a few laughs at least. :')

Atlantis and the Kingdom of the Neanderthals: 100,000 Years of Lost History Atlantis
and the
Kingdom of the Neanderthals:
100,000 Years of Lost History

by Colin Wilson


138 posted on 01/27/2007 10:07:18 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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To: SunkenCiv

Oh Boy! That stuff will rot your mind.


139 posted on 01/27/2007 11:01:30 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

:') You're assuming my mind ain't already...


140 posted on 01/28/2007 4:39:23 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they're not." -- John Rummel)
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