Posted on 05/02/2005 4:59:11 PM PDT by TapTheSource
I went to the last link--and found an article from 1990...are they all like that?
Yawn, if that's the best you've got, you've lost me.
Looks like Dr. D wore out his welcome everywhere.
Good night.
PS I'm done doing the heavy lifting for you. Given your background, you have a special--indeed, a moral responsibility to EANESTLY look into this matter for yourself--TTS
I'm with you.
My son Charles wrote a very cogent piece on this subject a couple years before he died (not of AIDS). I will try to find it and if I can, I'll give it a thread of its own. It is a very cogent and commonsense presentation of the problems with the HIV-AIDS hypothesis. Putting it up on this forum would honor his memory.
This issue turned Charles conservative.
Very sorry for your loss. Do post it and ping me when it's up. Be sure to give it its own thread...and write a proper introduction! Time for bed. Keep up the good work. This issue is far from over!!!
I have NO obligation to Dr. D, or any obligation whatsoever to you.
But since you like cut and paste so well, let me take just ONE of those articles you posted links to, and cut and paste just THREE of the scholarly written responses.
You'll read them, won't you, even though they may not support your agenda?
The epidemiologic, laboratory, and clinical evidence that HIV is the cause of AIDS is overwhelming. This evidence has been used as a basis for national and international prevention programs and clinical and vaccine trials.
Thomas et al. mix fact with fiction to misinform readers. For example, the authors suggest that AIDS cases are an artifact of the CDC's AIDS surveillance case definition, that there are "thousands of cases of AIDS without HIV," and that "such cases tend to disappear from the official statistics."
The AIDS surveillance case definition was not designed to prove the existence of HIV. However, it provides additional evidence to what epidemiologic and laboratory studies have already told researchers- -that HIV causes AIDS. Case definitions of any disease or health condition are basic tools of public health surveillance. They are devised by epidemic investigators in response to clusters or outbreaks of new or unusual health phenomena. The first CDC AIDS surveillance case definition was developed in response to clusters of patients with unexplained opportunistic infections and Kaposi's sarcoma in 1981. Patterns identified from early case reports provided convincing evidence that the new syndrome was caused by an infectious agent. This definition has been expanded three times (in 1985, 1987, and 1993) in response to greatly increased knowledge of the immunopathology and health effects of HIV infection; each expansion served to encompass more persons with symptomatic HIV infection. Thus, far from being an artifact, the CDC's AIDS surveillance case definition is what it was intended to be-a tool to track the many persons in the latter stages of HIV infection.
The authors claimed that there are "thousands of cases of AIDS without HIV." A small percentage of cases reported to CDC have been in patients who have never had an HIV antibody test. The majority of these cases were diagnosed and reported before the first HIV antibody test was licensed in 1985. These cases were diagnosed based on the presence of "indicator" diseases (mainly Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia and Kaposi's sarcoma) that are very rare in immunocompetent persons not infected with HIV. In addition, their supposition that these cases were further defined as idiopathic CD4+ T-lymphocytopenia (ICL) is not true. Investigations show that ICL cases and AIDS cases differ epidemiologitally. Thus far, researchers have found that ICL is rare, and that no more than 100 of these cases exist.
AIDS cases do not disappear. Missing or incomplete information that accompanies AIDS cases reported to CDC through state health departments is often updated. Most cases reported without risk information are reclassified as follow-up investigations are completed.
The inevitable conclusions of more than a decade of research are that most people exposed to HIV through sexual contact, injecting drugs, or transfusions are susceptible to HIV infection. Nearly all persons who become infected with HIV will eventually develop AIDS.
Surveillance data have been useful in developing prevention and control programs for persons at risk of HIV infection. AIDS prevention programs continue to be based on our understanding of scientifically defined HIV transmission modes because prevention of AIDS is prevention of HIV. To deviate from or ignore this concept would result in an unconscionable tragedy.
Brenda W. Garza
D. Peter Drotman, M.D., M.P.H.
Harold W. Jaffe, M.D.
Division of HIV/AIDS
National Center for Infectious Disease
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Atlanta, GA
As you can see, Duesberg et al are not in the least bit afraid to post the best that their critics have to offer. That's because they eat these guys for lunch both in terms of published research and in debate (I have witnessed these charlatans get creamed in debate over and over...it's gotten so bad that they will no longer even show up). Did you bother reading the authors' response to their critics??? I would imagine not...but who knows, maybe you'll surprise me. Moreover, did you know that NIH officials offered Duesberg a bribe to recant his position on AIDS? Hardly the behavior you would expect from Public Health officials who are confident that they have properly identified the cause of AIDS. Truth is, these guys know that if the truth about AIDS ever gets out, their collective heads will roll (and some know full well that there is a good chance they will go to prison for suppressing scientific debate about the real cause of AIDS).
BTW, Fumento is one of those phonies sent out by the CDC/NIH to dupe conservatives into supporting HIV=AIDS and the so-called "War on AIDS", which involves population control measures typical of those in the AIDS/Public Health Establishment. To see how this worked, see the second link entitled "The Hidden Agenda Behind HIV" in post #2. Better yet, I'll post it here:
The Hidden Agenda Behind HIV
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1395003/posts
As I read these commentaries by Fumento, Winklestein, Garza, Drotman, and Jaffe, I was struck by how their points were either off topic, wrongly characterized, misleading, or irrelevant to the argument presented.
Then I read Fumento's staement: "Much of what the authors say is unquestionably true, and just as unquestionably doesn't support their case." And I wondered if he could possibly be aware of the irony dripping from such a statement. Probably not, I concluded.
I remain convinced that when the apologies are handed round for this entirely avoidable medical and scientific disaster, if the day ever comes, it Peter Duesberg eating crow.
I remain convinced that when the apologies are handed round for this entirely avoidable medical and scientific disaster, if the day ever comes, it won't be Peter Duesberg eating crow.
BTW, speaking of conservatives, do you know who endorsed Duesberg and Ellison's book?
"This book may well be the most important treatise on the issue of public health in this decade"
--George Grant, author of "Grand Illusions" and "The Family Under Siege."
"The information set forth in this book should be read by anyone interested in the AIDS issue. The governement has evolved an enormous scientific bureaucracy which may be premised on chasing the wrong horse. I suggest a full-scale investigation to dig out the answers."
--Congressman William Dannemeyer
THE INVESTIGATION STILL NEEDS TO HAPPEN!
The answer is so simple:
The same people who gain from every medical lie that is constantly perpetuated by the MSM, and all the alphabet soup federal 'health' agencies, the pharmaceutical poison manufacturers.
==the pharmaceutical poison manufacturers.
That's just one group who benefits. You will find that the proponants of social engineering, population control and socialized medicine used the AIDS gravey train to advance their agenda further than anything possible before the advent of the "War on AIDS"...even amongst conservatives. Indeed, they should rename this whole campaign the "War on Traditional Values." Here's a link exposing this movement if you're interested...
The Hidden Agenda Behind HIV
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1395003/posts
What about this: http://www.gutenberg.org/cdproject/cd/etext01/wrnpc10.txt
And this: http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/bnf/bnf0003.html
What do you think of that?
'MEDS' not 'HIV' - The real killer
Don't believe what the drugs companies tell you.
WITHOUT HAART 'MEDS"
These long-term nonprogressors [Hiv+ people who remained healthy] are a heterogeneous group with respect to viral load and HIV-1 responses
none had been treated with antiretroviral agents.
AIDS Research and Human Retroviruses, 12: 585 (1996)
Harrer, Thomas, et al, Aids Researchers
NOT ONE USED HAART
Subjects: homosexual men in Amsterdam. None of the LTAs [long-term asymptomaticspeople who remained healthy]
received any antiviral drugs during the study [7 years].
Ten HIV+ people; 11-15 years infected; non-progressors [i.e., healthy]; maintained stable T-cell counts above 500. These long-term nonprogressors
all showed the same risk factor (sexual exposure), and all had...virus...and none had been treated with antiretroviral agents.
AIDS Research and Human Retroviruses, 12: 585 (1996)
Harrer, Thomas, et al, Aids Researchers
Journal of Infectious Diseases, 171:811 (1995)
Hogervorst E, et al, Aids Researchers
_________
__________
WITH HAART
Choosing between many of these [HAART] combinations is, therefore, increasingly dependent upon knowledge of antiretroviral toxicities...[which include] myopathy [gross muscle atrophy] (zidovudine [AZT]), neuropathy (stavudine, didanosine, zalcitabine; hepatic steatosis and lactic acidaemia (didanosine, stavudine, zidovudine); and possible also peripheral lipoatrophy and pancreatitis (didanosine)...drug hypersensitivity... lipodystrophy...[including] peripheral fat loss (Presumed lipoatrophy in the face, limbs and buttocks) and central fat accumulation (within the abdomen, breasts and over the dorsocervical spine [so-called buffalo hump]...[and prevalent in] about 50% [of patients] after 12-18 months of therapy...Metabolic features significantly associated with lipodystrophy and protease-inhibitor therapy include hypertriglyceridaemia, hypercholesterolaemia, insulin resistance...and type 2 ...diabetes mellitus. Dyslipidaemia at concentrations associated with increased cardiovascular disease occurs in about 70% of patients. These metabolic abnormalities are more profound in those receiving protease inhibitors...Most cases of diabetes have been identified in recipients of protease inhibitors...Anemia and granulocytopenia affect about 5-10% of patients who receive zidovudine...Virtually all antiretroviral medications can cause nausea, vomiting, or diarrhoea early in therapy...Diarrhea is probably most common with protease inhibitors...Most antiretroviral agents have been associated with hepatic [liver] toxicity...Most protease inhibitors seem to result in increased rates of spontaneous bleeding (bruising, haemarthrosis, and rarely intracranial haemorrhage) in haemophiliacs... 25-35% of patients cannot tolerate [AZT monotherapy] or triple combination therapy for 4 weeks...
Lancet. 2000 Oct 21;356:1423-0.
Carr A, Cooper DA, Aids Researchers
BLINDNESS
This study was conducted to determine the likelihood of the development of [immune recovery vitritis, IRV], which causes vision loss in AIDS patients with cytomegalovirus (CMV) retinitis, who respond to HAART. We followed 30 HAART-responders
Symptomatic IRV developed in 19 (63%) of 30 patients.
J Infect Dis. 1999 Mar;179(3):697-700
CASTLEMAN'S DISEASE
Recently, we observed an unusual cluster of cases of rapidly progressing multicentric Castlemans disease. Fever, weakness, generalized enlargement of lymph nodes, and marked polyclonal gammopathy developed in three patients with AIDS...Two of these patients died within one week after the diagnosis, with generalized involvement of the lymphatic system, liver, and bone marrow at autopsy. A fourth patient with AIDS who died equally rapidly after the diagnosis of multicentric Castlemans disease had been seen in our hospital 14 months earlier... symptoms
started after the initiation of highly active antiretroviral therapy in these three patients.
N Engl J Med. 1999 Jun 17;340(24):1923-4
Zietz C, et al, Aids Researchers
Karavellas MP, et al, Aids Researchers
DEATH
Of the 70 patients studied, 84% were still alive after the 3-month study period...17 surviving patients (24%) had HAART regimens discontinued due to drug intolerance and 11 (16%) expired [died] during the study period...
J Pain Symptom Manage. 2001 Jan;21(1):41-51
NERVE DAMAGE
The antiretroviral drugs currently licensed in the United Kingdom [June 1996] are zidovudine (azidothymidine [AZT]), zalcitabine (ddC) and didanosine (ddI). All three are nucleoside analogues...All are very toxic. Suppression of bone marrow elements can occur with any of the three, as can peripheral neuropathy [nerve damage].
Adverse Drug Reaction Bulletin. 1996 Jun;178:675-8.
Ellis C.J., Leung D., Aids researchers
A decrease in mtDNA [DNA of the mitochondria; the energy regulating entities within every cell] content was found in HAART-treated HIV-infected patients with peripheral fat wasting in comparison with subjects in the control cohorts...Lipodystrophy with peripheral fat wasting following treatment with NRTI [Nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitor]-containing HAART is associated with a decrease in subcutaneous adipose [under the skin fat] tissue.
AIDS. 2001;15:1801-9
Shikuma CM, Hu N, Milne C, et al, Aids Researchers
These drugs are as dangerous as chemotherapy,
7 HIV patients presenting LD [Lipodystrophy, all taking antiretroviral therapy] and 5 HIV non-LD controls participated in the study
Structural muscle abnormalities, mitochondrial respiratory chain dysfunction or mtDNA deletions were detected in all HIV lipodystrophic patients. The mitochondrial abnormalities found suggest that mitochondrial dysfunction could play a role in the development of antiretroviral therapy-related lipodystrophy.
AIDS. 2001 Sep 7;15(13):1643-51
Zaera MG, et al, Aids Researchers
Combination drug therapy, or the triple-drug cocktail
often provokes severe side effects
These drugs are as dangerous as chemotherapy, warned Dr. James Kahn, UCSF associate professor of medicine
Science Daily, Sep 4, 2001
SEXUAL DIFFICULTIES - Body distortions
[Chapters in this guide to HIV drugs are entitled Introduction, Appetite loss, Body distortions (lipodystrophy), Bone death and destruction, Cardiac concerns, Diarrhea, Fatigue, Gas and bloating, Hair loss, Headaches, Insulin resistance and diabetes, Kidney stones, Liver toxicity, Muscle aches and pains, Nausea and vomiting, Nightmares, daymares and sleeping difficulties, Pancreatitis, Peripheral neuropathy, Skin problems, Sexual difficulties, The end]
A Practical Guide to HIV Drug Side Effects, CATIE, 2002
HEART ATTACKS
Use of protease inhibitors was strongly associated with the likelihood of having a myocardial infarction [heart attack] and correlated with diabetes mellitus and hyperlipidaemia.
Lancet. 2002 Nov 30;360(9347)
Holmberg SD, et al, Aids Researchers
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