Should the Estate Tax Go? (Nobel Prize Winner Gary Becker)

The Becker-Posner Blog ^ | May 15, 2005 | Gary Becker

[A CA Guy]

See #20, removing the Estate Tax is irresponsible, a very liberal thing to do and will pass on massive debt (which is ours) to future unborn generations. To me that kind of thinking is pathetic.

[FreeKeys]

Let's just say I consider your viewpoint extremely short-sighted, and that I disagree for a wide variety of reasons (including that the death tax is immoral according to my personal moral code). SHRINKING GOVERNMENT, especially by starving it and making its life a living hell would be a nice first step, IMCO.

[A CA Guy]

I think things need to be in place to direct the upcoming flood of money toward the debt and ss.

I don't see anything ethical that would transfer our responsibilities to future unborn generations, do you?

Don't you want to pay your debts from your generation?

I think WE are responsible out of ethics and conservatism to pay our debts and I am sure you also would be one of the first in line to pay your debts and to not pass it on to the unborn.

[ancient_geezer]

A Taxreform bump for you all.

If you would like to be added to this ping list let me know.

John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25), offer a comprehensive bill to kill all federal income, SS/Medicare payroll, and gift/estate taxes outright, and provide a IRS free replacement in the form of a retail sales tax:

H.R.25,S.25
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Refer for additional information:

• http://www.fairtax.org,
• http://www.myfairtax.org/,
• http://www.salestax.org,
• http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/ftax.html

[numberonepal]

Should the Estate Tax Go?

Why this question needs to be asked is beyond me.

[Vicomte13]

Strikes me that the estate tax should go, but that the amounts inherited or received as gifts should be taxed as what they are to the recipients: income.

Tax is levied on "income from whatever source derived".

Income is an increase to net worth.

Rich relative dies, and his property passes to me via his will. He is dead. Should HE be taxed? No.

I am alive. And my net worth has increased, perhaps dramatically. This is income, and it should be taxed to me along with all the rest of my income.

A flat tax that taxes ALL income equally and has no deductions has to include income received as gifts and income received through inheritances.

"Capital gains" are just a special type of income.
Has net worth increased?
Yes.
Then it should be taxed.

Of course, have a tax code like that and the base will expand quite massively (think of the amount of increase in net worth every homeowner has in the current real estate boom).
And if the base is expanded that massively, then the overall income tax rate, the flat rate, can decrease quite dramatically.

A dollar is a dollar is a dollar, however you came by it.
Right now, we have a system in which a dollar given to you as a GIFT by some rich benefactor is not taxed at ALL (to you), a dollar you earn on an investment is taxed at a low rate, but a dollar you earn by WORK is taxed at the highest rate of any dollar in the economy (income tax (federal and state) PLUS social security tax PLUS Medicare tax).

So, we punish work the most, and reward inheritance and gift for nothing the most with our system.

Reversing that is class warfare.

The fair solution is to treat a dollar as a dollar, and tax all of them the same.

[A CA Guy]

Does this you mean you believe it should stay or do you believe you should ignore this generation's debt and pass it to the unborn?

I think we should pay our bills, how about you?

[numberonepal]

Does this you mean you believe it should stay or do you believe you should ignore this generation's debt and pass it to the unborn?

I think what's mine is mine, and if I keel over I get to decide who gets what's mine. I do not believe it appropriate that my property can be again pillaged at the point of a gun after my death. It's appalling and immoral. Got a problem with that?

I think we should pay our bills, how about you?

Bills, shmills. Cuts are the answer. Not taxes.

[A CA Guy]

Hey, the people being taxed will be dead. They would have created a part of the problem with SS and the national debt. Conservatives don't tend to avoid their responsibilities, so I think most here would say, take all this money in as it always has, but do something to direct it all to the deficit and SS.

I think it would be a crime to pass on debt of any kind to the unborn.

I agree with you about spending cuts, but there's a bill due and no cuts are going to pay this huge bill.

The people who most benefited from what caused the national debt and SS will be dying over the next twenty plus years and their estates should pay the traditional tax that has been in place for a long time. It will flood the government with money simply because a lot of the older generations to come have money and will have lots to be taxed as they all die.

The heirs will still get a good deal of money, and it's not like they should get it all when the national debt and SS was a bill they owed first. Let the heirs benefit after their folks pay off what they owe to the government for the national debt and SS.

I do think laws or something more needs to be in place for when all this money comes in so they don't expand social programs over payment of national debt.

[freepatriot32]

Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here

[A CA Guy]

Great, can't wait for your group to chime in on personal responsibility in not leaving our national debt to the unborn.

[Polybius]

The tax cut law of 2001 included a slow phase out of the estate tax by 2010, but the tax is supposed to be reinstated in 2011 when the entire 2001 law expires.

In the Year 2010, thousands of very rich old men will be armed to the teeth and won't let anybody near them.

"Loving niece" my arse! Don't you come one step closer!!

[David]

Reply to your #20:

Problem with that view is that the Death Tax does not raise any net funds to pay any of this stuff with--you may think the function of government is to transfer funds from one citizen to pay another citizen's bills--that's great, particularly if you are a transferee. You are entitled to your view.

But to argue that you are doing it with proceeds of the Death Tax is uninformed. Because after a real accounting for costs of collection, the Death Tax does not really raise any net proceeds to pay anything with.

[A CA Guy]

Let me assure you David, with over half the population with assets getting old and dying, you are about to see as much as 25% of all personal wealth go to the government in estate taxes.
The estate tax will be probably bigger than the Federal income tax to the treasury because of all of the older people passing on over the next 20 years.

It would be a crime to suspend this tax until at least the next 25 years goes by. The people who created this country's deficit should be obligated to put what they could into paying down their debt and not pass it on to the innocent unborn.

[Badray]

bump for later

[4KennewickMan2Invent]

Wipe out income tax (ie production tax). Hello Fair Tax (consumption). Vote out Congress or set limits. Though as a "Representative" of those who elected said congress person, the only way to get rid of tax ad spend politicians (Reps and Dems) is to vote them out.

The estate tax is stealing from a dead person who spent their LIFE acquiring something. The government did not make the wealth and therefore has no right to it or claim of ownership. Taxes are everywhere due to letting useless people have jobs that give them other peoples money to play with and to "politically succeed".

Here's a novel idea. Every time congress goes over budget, they get a pay cut double (or more) the rate of the excess spending. Also reduce there spending budget the same way. Hit their wallets like they hit ours.

[numberonepal]

That was a pretty good liberal argument. It doesn't hold water, but it was pretty good.

[David]

Look, with all due respect, having been in the federal tax business for the last 40 years plus, representing taxpayers at every level from the Joint Committee Staff on down, whatever you may believe about proper use of government taxing and spending power, the Death Tax is not where the revenue is.

Well over 99% of the estates are below the exemption level; and even by doing that, the cost of collection is somewhere around the tax amount realized. When you load the direct collection costs with the unavoidable IRS administration overhead costs applicable to the estate tax function, at least in my view, it is pretty clear that you lose money on the tax.

Reduce the exemption? The tax becomes unenforceable and the collection cost goes up dramatically.

I also subscribe to the view that there are a number of other problems with the Death Tax from a policy point of view--you may not agree but the votes are there to make repeal permanent, even among the fuzzies who agree with your point of view, and the tax is going to be permanently eliminated in the near term.