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To: sayfer bullets
"Lots of freepers think libertarianism is a leftist philosophy...so do a lot of leftists, idiotically. Truth is that it's closer to the classical liberalism of our forefathers than most of what's out there today."

" William Wallace probably thought something like this about the Nobles. It's not enough to define the larger body absent a moral character. Not caring about that political spectrum is no different than just leaving the gates open and turning your head... same results.

What do you even mean by that? That William Wallace thought that nobles were leftists or that he left the gates open and turned his head?

Right now your reply doesn't seem to even address my post. On reading some of your posts on this thread, I notice mostly references to abortion, which I have not addressed at all. I couldn't say what the Libertarian Party's position is on it, but, IMO, it doesn't follow that small L libertarianism favors it. Quite the contrary even.

39 posted on 05/30/2005 7:04:24 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Sam Cree
What do you even mean by that? That William Wallace thought that nobles were leftists or that he left the gates open and turned his head?

Neither. You are reading too literally. Wallace trusted men who's principles he thought matched his when in truth they did not. They only agreed in-part and up-to-a-point.

My point (Wallace was a reference, not the point) was that one may think his allies are his allies, when in truth their agendas are only temporarily or partially aligned. My point about turning one's head could be applied to anyone. And again, "turning one's head" just means intentional impartiality or negligence. A neo-conservative (and most Senators) may betray the classic freedoms championed by the libertarian thinker at risk to all. A libertarian may betray the social conservative, who he otherwise aligns with. Inaction or indifference alone is enough and it allows the enemy to win and advance on all fronts.

It is untrue to claim libertarianISM is overtly leftist, although one could fairly argue that the indifference or anti-conservatism on some issues opens the door for liberalism...enabling it's success. It is equally untrue to claim libertarianism as any "true" or classic foundation of this country absent recognition of providence, and an assumed moral basis. If the only thing required,for evil to succeed, is for good men to do nothing, then morality based upon individual choice is indeed problematic.

That the social liberal or social conservative can equally claim to be libertarian if they wish...is the basis for my assertion that the party will always be less than 1%. It's not a slap. It's just simple fact. The potential voting pool can easily be divided on social issues alone.

Right now your reply doesn't seem to even address my post.

It might be because I was addressing another poster.

On reading some of your posts on this thread, I notice mostly references to abortion, which I have not addressed at all. I couldn't say what the Libertarian Party's position is on it, but, IMO, it doesn't follow that small L libertarianism favors it. Quite the contrary even.

That might be a conversation worth having, but I believe the party is pro-choice. My exchange with the pro-abortion libertarian arose because he/she claimed anything one does (I think it was an anti-drug-war point) is "OK" as long as they aren't hurting anyone else. I may have inserted abortion into the conversation, but it was cogent. For the pro-abort libertarian I see integrity problems. That's all. If you look again at those posts you will see that I take issue primarily with the extent to which the person carries his own standard.

Fregards,

sb

40 posted on 05/31/2005 8:54:35 PM PDT by sayfer bullets
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