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To: betty boop; billybudd; All
The real issue in Vietnam is that we were fighting a proxy war without attacking the source. Until Bush rolls up his sleeves and takes out Iran and Syria, Iraq will continue to be a target for foreign infiltrators. Great observation, billybudd.

Ah actually NO. Tone way down the Bush hate and try to actually learn something here instead of mindlessly parroting the anti-Bush propaganda you been programed to spew. The difference all the Hysteric "Iraq is Vietnam" people keep missing. Vietnam was basically a fight between conventional forces with know base areas and supply lines in a limited geographic area. In the War on Terror, we are facing covert foes spread across a wide geographic areas with covert sources of supply. Since we lack the ability to send forces every where the terrorists hide, and because we cannot defend every target the terrorists may hit, we need to draw the Terrorists out of hiding into our kill zone. Iraq is that kill zone. We prepped a battle field the terrorists HAVE to fight on for political reasons (the "holy soil" of Arabia). We force the terrorists to fight OUR strength (Conventional Military force) with their WEAKEST asset (Conventional military strength) on a geographically neutral area (Iraq as opposed to favorable terrorist battlefields like Afghanistan) on a battlefield where we would have the support of indigenous forces (the vast bulk of the very nationalistic Iraqi tribes). I know you all have been horribly scared by Vietnam but Iraq is in NO WAY similar to Vietnam. You see Syria as one big Ho Chi Min trail, that is not what it is. The better analogy is the processing chute of a slaughter house. See, in a slaughter house cattle from a wide area are concentrated for processing. They move down the processing chute until they are killed and processed. Syria is the slaughterhouse processing chute, Iraq is the terrorists slaughterhouse. We WANT them to come to Iraq and get massacred rather then hide out around the world planning the next 9-11!

13 posted on 08/17/2005 8:06:21 AM PDT by MNJohnnie ( Brick by brick, stone by stone, the Revolution grows)
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To: MNJohnnie
I'm not anti-Bush and I don't hate him. I voted for him both times. But I'm getting nervous because of an analogy I see to Vietnam, which other people have seen, and Bush isn't taking any pains to address it through his speeches. The analogy is NOT the left's version, i.e., people are dying, American evil, blah blah. My concern is specifically about Syria and Iran, and if you look at the pattern of attacks within Iraq, it is clear as day that the infiltrators are coming in and getting supplied from Syria and Iran. There are plenty of reports from the borders to confirm this, even though Bush seems to want to ignore it.

The "kill zone" strategy is a valid one, although it has never actually been articulated by Bush (for good reason). That's because it would contradict the stated reason for our presence: to build an Iraqi democracy, to serve as a model for the region. If we intend to achieve this aim, then we do indeed need to take out the source of the problem. The Iraqi system simply will not survive if we don't do this. And the terrible thing would be that it would kill our future credibility in these situations. "Look what happened to Iraq, we don't want that here in Iran", etc. So I think it is a legitimate concern to have.

Now, if Bush dosn't think this is a priority, then fine, he should say that. Instead, it looks as if he's trying to lower expectations without making a change in policy, which makes me really nervous.
16 posted on 08/17/2005 8:22:54 AM PDT by billybudd
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To: MNJohnnie; billybudd
We WANT them to come to Iraq and get massacred rather then hide out around the world planning the next 9-11!

I could be wrong, MNJohnnie, but it seems that billybudd thinks we should take out the people who are sending the terrorists/infiltrators/jihadists that are winding up in Iraq -- and elsewhere. (And I would agree.) There seems to be an infinite supply of expendable fanatics to fuel this barbarism forever; but the people issuing the marching orders are probably comparatively few in number. And we know where they are. They should be made to "go away." JMHO FWIW

18 posted on 08/17/2005 8:37:42 AM PDT by betty boop (Nature loves to hide. -- Heraclitus)
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