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The Golden Calf of Evolution is on Fire…
NoDNC.com report ^ | August 23, 2005

Posted on 08/23/2005 10:39:22 AM PDT by woodb01

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To: King Prout; RadioAstronomer
Ye wuz pung at #2, me starry droogie

Splendid! How about a bit of the old ultraviolence, then?

81 posted on 08/23/2005 12:36:58 PM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: Texas_Conservative2
If i'm wrong .... i'll embrace the darkness when I die... If i'm right .... i'll embrace the savior.

If you're very wrong, you'll be punished eternally for worshipping a false god. Try a little game theory with that premise ;)

82 posted on 08/23/2005 12:38:44 PM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: general_re

between Ichneumon & Co. I believe the groodiest of tolchocks have already been delivered.


83 posted on 08/23/2005 12:44:07 PM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: Texas_Conservative2

If i'm wrong .... i'll embrace the darkness when I die... If i'm right .... i'll embrace the savior.

How about this....I don't know and when I die I may find out. Or do you have to have an answer now?

84 posted on 08/23/2005 12:47:38 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Ichneumon
I commend you for posting Dr Theobald's work rather than representing a re-hash of it as your own, as you did here earlier.

You have not addressed an error in part 4 of Theobald's work where he states (which you aped in what you said "are my own writings") wherein it is stated:

this process [retroviral integration] is rare and fairly random, so finding retrogenes in identical chromosomal positions of two different species indicates common ancestry.

Retroviral integration is not random, nor fairly random.

Do you think the conclusion that "finding retrogenes in identical chromosomal positions of two different species indicates common ancestry" is weakened given non-random retroviral integration? Or does the random nature or non-randomness of the integration not effect the conclusion.

85 posted on 08/23/2005 12:47:55 PM PDT by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: Texas_Conservative2
Either God created life and the universe... or there is no God,

That's the choices? No third alternative, no fourth, fifth, etc.? I will grant as given that God created great whales, but some of the other things He let the earth bring forth and the waters, too. Some of the other things He let be, which is not the same as creating. It's kind of an active/passive thing. He let light be, but he made whales.

86 posted on 08/23/2005 12:50:07 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and open the Land Office)
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To: Monti Cello
[A process which took hundreds of millions of years and an entire planet to achieve stochastically is going to be a tad unlikely to be reproducible in a few test tubes in a few years.]

True enough...but to figure out how the islands formed an efficient scientist wouldn't simulate a random process and wait until something looking like Hawaii popped up.

True, and neither do abiogenesis researchers. They learn as much as they can about biochemical processes and then use that knowledge to gain insight into the earliest stages of the formation of life.

We are able to use observations and logic to skip the random experiment and hone in on a conceptualization of the process.

Exactly.

Climate modelers have been relatively successful at generating plausible physically realistic outcomes given realistic inputs to a complex system.

And so have biochemists.

To your knowledge has much progress be made in this way with regard to the generation of life from chemicals?

Yes, there has actually been an *explosion* of productive research in this field in the past ten years, and especially the past five years, as knowledge in several different relevant fields (information science, biochemistry, DNA sequencing, geophysics, phylogenetics, etc.) have reached the "take-off" point and come together with respect to being able to provide a real foundation for abiogenesis research. This is why the new Harvard research program on abiogenesis has been begun recently, whereas it would not have made sense even five years ago. The field has now reached the point where there are several promising lines of research which have a good chance of bearing fruit, and thus it makes sense to begin a coordinated project bringing together researchers in the relevant disciplines.

Multiple creationists have already tried to spin this new project as an act of "desperation", but they're just whistling past the graveyard. Science doesn't embark on such research projects unless it already has pretty good reasons to expect useful results. The fact that they're starting a full-scale research project indicates confidence, not nervousness.

87 posted on 08/23/2005 12:55:17 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: PatrickHenry

I was about to thank you for pinging me until I choked on the muffin I was having for dinner whilst reading the article. It was a very good muffin, but I don't think my lungs appreciated it.


88 posted on 08/23/2005 12:56:31 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: woodb01
Why do people continue to accept the ridiculous idea that evolution is anything but religious dogma? The "cute" little arguments offered by supporters of evolution simply DEFY common sense.

Mostly because of the staggering amount of evidence in favor of evolution.

If you knew anything about biology, this article could help you.

Have you found your billion year old human fossil yet?

89 posted on 08/23/2005 12:59:26 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: King Prout

Interesting. A verbatim of a blog which violates Godwin's rule in the original post, rather than later in a comment.

Has it become normal to just copy from other blogs and post them here?


90 posted on 08/23/2005 12:59:26 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
My comment is that the Panda's Thumb review of Meyers article in the obscure essay magazine is a dull and boring commentary on a dull and boring trivial article in a trivial publication.

If you knew anything about biology you'd not be wasting time on this side show.

91 posted on 08/23/2005 1:05:12 PM PDT by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: Ichneumon

355/113 kudos


92 posted on 08/23/2005 1:05:25 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Texas_Conservative2; general_re; Coyoteman

awww, naw... not Pascal's Wager AGAIN?

That uses an artificially simplified Given set.
As a result, its set of consequences is far from comprehensive.

lemme see if I can find that old elaboration of that silly Wager...

dammit... it's buried DEEP.

I'll have to find it (or recreate it in full) one of these days.

here's a precis:

Pascal's Given
1. God IS
2. God IS NOT
A. I believe
B. I don't believe
Pascal's Consequences
1A. I go to Heaven
1B. I go to Hell
2A. I'm in error, but no harm
2B. I'm in error, but no benefit

Sounds fine, until you realize there's more than one godstory out there

Revised Given
1. God Exists
2. Bog Exists
3. Nyarlathotep Exists
4. Shiva exists
...
...
...
(infinity-n). The Great Pumpkin exists
A. I believe in Deity #1, and none of the other deities either exist or -if they do- mind all that much
B. (as above, for D2)
C. (as above, for D3)
...
...
...
(Z-inf-n). (as above, for the Great Pumpkin)
A'. I believe in D1, but D2098675 really IS, and he' gets riled easily
(etc...)

don't even ask me to make the consequence set for you: you either get the point now, or nothing I could say further will aid you in finding it.


93 posted on 08/23/2005 1:09:01 PM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

I suppose that, in some circles, doing so passes for penetrating thought and cogent argument


94 posted on 08/23/2005 1:10:36 PM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Interesting. A verbatim of a blog which violates Godwin's rule in the original post, rather than later in a comment.

Has it become normal to just copy from other blogs and post them here?

Yes. Itchyman did this in 16. I guess it is par for the course (i.e. has become the norm) on these threads.

Still, is it better to re-hash what is written by another on their blog and present it as if it is the poster's own work (as itchyman did previously) or to post the blog verbatim?

Probably the latter. The former if proper attribution is given.

95 posted on 08/23/2005 1:10:59 PM PDT by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: PatrickHenry
... the most incredibly ignorant article ever posted on this website.

I haven't read the thread or this particular article yet, so let's have some fun. I have a theory. Anything from NoDNC.com and authored by "Staff" is a thinly disguised vanity by the poster. A previous thread left that very distinct impression.

96 posted on 08/23/2005 1:12:43 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: woodb01
With external inputs of energy, directed in a specialized way, disorder and randomness can be ordered.

Maxwell's "demon" hypothesis. It's false.

97 posted on 08/23/2005 1:15:02 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: tallhappy

But you approve of the original article and the posting of such.


98 posted on 08/23/2005 1:15:27 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: RadioAstronomer; PatrickHenry
Left out again I see. Crushed I tell ya, CRUSHED!

Yeah. ME TOO! (appropriate caps used).

I had to hear about it second hand..... (/pout mode)

99 posted on 08/23/2005 1:17:05 PM PDT by narby (There are Bloggers, and then there are Freepers.)
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To: King Prout; balrog666; PatrickHenry
suggestions are officially solicited

"Delusions of Adequacy -- one person's attempt to Disprove Evilootion and Square the Circle whilst skipping his Medication"

100 posted on 08/23/2005 1:21:51 PM PDT by longshadow
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