Skip to comments.Why is the FairTax better than our current system?
Posted on 11/07/2005 10:55:20 AM PST by Eaglewatcher
Why is the FairTax better than our current system? Our present tax system is one of the reasons that people are finding it so difficult to get ahead these days. It is one of the reasons the next generation may not have a standard of living as high as this generation. Cars replaced the horse and buggy, the telephone replaced the telegraph, and the FairTax replaces the income tax. The income tax is holding us back and making it more difficult than it needs to be to improve our families standard of living. It makes it needlessly difficult for our businesses to compete in international markets. It wastes vast resources on complying with needless paperwork. We can do better and we must.
good bye IRS
Uhhhhhhhh, because... it'sssssss... fair?
The number of people who claim to be conservatives yet hold so tightly onto this basic plank of the Communist Manifesto is amazing and disheartening.
1. Most of us would consider it a HUGE improvement if we didn't have to waste so much time and agony filling out the stinking tax forms. Multiply all that lost time times the number of people who have to do it and it is a COLOSSAL waste of American productivity. Not to mention the anxiety, annoyance, headaches...........
2. Abolishing the IRS would mean that it could not be used as a weapon of coercion, intimidation, and abuse by Hilary and her ilk.
3. It would be very difficult for the rich to duck this. The politicians who tinker with tax laws are always claiming that the rich don't pay their fair share. (very true, it's the upper middle class that carry the greatest n tax burden, with the rest of the middle class close on their heels. The rich can shelter it.) This would close the loopholes for the rich.
The elimination of all other taxes makes it a must do item.
" ... the briefest of overviews:
Simply put, HR25 would provide for the repeal of the 16th Amendment (the income tax amendment) and the dismantling of the IRS. All personal and corporate income taxes would end, as would all payroll taxes. There would not be one cent of federal taxes of any nature taken out of your paychecks. No more Social Security taxes. No more Medicare taxes. You earn $2,000 a payday; you get $2,000 a payday. The federal government would be funded through a national sales tax on goods and services sold at the retail level. No taxes on investments. No taxes on savings. You only get taxed on what you spend at the retail level. Store your earnings in a shoebox if you wish. They won't be taxed ... "
I don't doubt that its' better, but i hardly think it's the best.
it favors those who don't have to spend all their money on supporting their families - the rich.
so i consider it a wolf in sheep's slothing.
Truth is ya can't cut taxes while federal government costs increase. The trick is to find out under which shell the tax increase is going. Shell No. 1 - taxes end up in States and local government. Shell No. 2 - taxes are deferred to future generations. Shell No. 3 - hidden in consumption costs.
But, if for no other reason, doing away with the IRS is reason enough.
Since reading Peggy Noonan's article last week, I've been disappointed. She exposes the notion that people are realizing more and more they can go to the voting booth and take other peoples property.
Writing science fiction for about a penny a word is no way to make a living. If you really want to make a million, the quickest way is to start your own religion.
~ L. Ron Hubbard
...the movement for consumption-based taxation has been hijacked by a group of extremists whose principal interest is abolishing the Internal Revenue Service.21 They believe that if virtually all federal taxes are abolished and replaced with a retail sales tax like those in the states, then the states can simply collect the federal government's revenue for it, thereby allowing for abolition of the IRS...
21 The Church of Scientology originated this legislation as part of a campaign against the IRS because it refused for many years to allow gifts to the church to be deducted as legitimate charitable contributions, on the grounds that it was not a true church. The IRS eventually relented. See Davis (1997) and Starobin (1995) for discussions of the Church of Scientology's role in the sales tax campaign.
Davis, Bob. 1997. "CATS Out of the Bag." World, 12:9 (May 31/June 7).
Starobin, Paul. 1995. "No Returns." National Journal (March 18): 666-671.
For years now, the American government has established state religion. No, it's not evangelical Christianity. It's Scientology.
Because of a 1993 secret deal with the Internal Revenue Service, members of L. Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology are allowed to write off costly Scientologist "auditing" and "training" services as charitable gift deductions. Anyone who sends their child to religious school, however, is banned from writing off tuition.
What exactly are Scientologists writing off? Thousands of dollars worth of pure baloney. As authors Andrew Breitbart and Mark Ebner detail in their fascinating book, "Hollywood, Interrupted," Scientology itself is a load of psychedelic babble, and an expensive load at that. It costs over $300,000 to reach the top levels of this cult. "Auditing" -- the service that the IRS allows Scientologists to write off -- is a method of purging "thetans."
Excerpted from: L. Ron Hubbard has better lobbyists than God
The cynically misnamed "FairTax" is a red-herring...
fraudulent "reform" legislation that is intended to sidetrack and derail legitimate tax reform proposals such as the Flat Tax.
If you look at taxes none are "fair", but I think this method is the best because the rich do spend their money and would pay the most in tax, also, blinding the government by eliminating the IRS would be a desirable outcome. With the flat tax you still have the government asking who are you, where did your money come from and what did you do with it? I like the idea of April 15th being just another day and controlling my tax by controlling my spending. I see no red hearing here, but I still see major problems with other tax methonds - problems not with then money, but with the information collected.
My guess is the "fair tax" scammers are lying about that too. If the IRS is to go away, the mechanism for that should be in any new tax law. It isn't and will likely never be.
All you hear from the tax scammers is that most people's taxes will decrease and there will be no corporate income tax. They have no answer for who will be taxed to make up for these decreases. I'd bet this nonsense is more like a con-game than a miracle.
When the 'fair taxers' show how to reduce the cost of government they will be worth listening to. In the meantime the 'fair taxers' are like the 'free traders' all slogans and no cattle.
And just what if they can't get the 16th Amendment repealed? We'll have both taxes in not time at all.
i think it's all smoke and mirrors driven by the superrich who pay the lion's share now, but would pay less because they spend less of what they make to survive - unlike the poor who will have to pay more to make up the diff.
Right. There does seem to be a willful desire to avoid talking about the ugly reality of government spending.
I believe China owns something like a 3rd of the US' foreign debt (i.e. not including what the US owes to its own treasury). No matter what someone's opinions are regarding tax cuts and the Iraq war, surely no one can disagree that it's absurd to cut taxes AND wage an expensive war. If the dollar loses value anymore, the possibility of the Euro becoming the dominant currency will move further out of the realms of pure fantasy and into the realms of all likelyhood. And the economic ramifications of that are just to wild to comprehend.
All sales taxes are inherently regressive, simply because "the rich" have greater discretionary control over their expenses. Those at the lowest end of the economic ladder are hit hardest simply because they MUST spend a greater portion of their meager resources on necessities.
Excellent summary in those keywords.
And just what if they can't get the 16th Amendment repealed? We'll have both taxes in not time at all.
Hmmm, the 16th amendment has been in place almost 100yrs, the federal govenment has not been able to put both in place yet, in spite of several attempts to do so, nor is there any reason to believe they would have any better opportunity once the income tax is dead to put one back into place with a retail sales tax in place.
One primary point is certain, we will not see the end of the 16th amendment as long as this nation continues to have an income tax sytem in place with no replace on line and place. 100 years of almost continuous attempts to get 2/3rds of Congress to propose the repeal of the 16th amendment while under the chains of the income tax have repeatedly failed to gain the required traction to even be present for the states to ratify.
It is obvious that leaving an income tax as the primary mode of federal taxation will continue to prevent the repeal of the 16th, where with a viable and operation alterative can open the door to such repeal.
If anyone would like to be added to this ping list let me know.
John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25) offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and SS/Medicare payroll taxes outright and replace them with with a national retail sales tax administered by the states.
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.
Refer for additional information:
I see the Fair Tax as the perfect opportunity for dual taxation. Once everybody is on the Nat'l Sales Tax, with the 16th still in place, some "budget emergency" will come along, and a "small" income tax, starting out on just the wealthy of course, will be implemented. Just like the current income tax got started. Bottom line: I will not support the Fair Tax if the 16th is still in place. Write it so the sales tax cannot go into effect until the 16th is repealed, and you might have something.
Rep. Bill Archer, Chairman, House Ways and Means Committee:
"A recent survey was done, in Europe and Japan, of the major corporations and I was astounded at the results. They were asked, 'If the US abolished its income tax and went to a sales tax, would that have any impact on your decisions?' Eighty percent of the corporations said they would build their factories in the United States of America. Twenty percent said they would move their international headquarters to the United States of America."
That's the short list. For more information see fairtax.org or search: "national sales tax" OR "national retail sales tax"
Ummm, yes they can. The tax cut has stimulated our economy and has lead to several years of growth.
If the dollar loses value anymore, the possibility of the Euro becoming the dominant currency will move further out of the realms of pure fantasy and into the realms of all likelyhood.
Ummm, the Euro has been weak against the dollar this year.
Once everybody is on the Nat'l Sales Tax, with the 16th still in place, some "budget emergency" will come along, and a "small" income tax, starting out on just the wealthy of course, will be implemented.
We have had 100years with the income tax and every opportunity in dunderhead Congresses to implement a sales tax on top of income taxes. It hasn't happened yet and is unlikely to happen for one very good reason. The American electorate would decimate any politician that tries it.
Just like the current income tax got started.
I see, only problem with that scenario is that the NRST proposed is proposed as a complete replacement not incremental at all. If it is done, it will only be accomplished because the electorate demands that total replacement and convincing folks to take on an income tax any time soon after forcing Congress Critter's to abandon the current system over extreme objections is just plain not rational.
Bottom line: I will not support the Fair Tax if the 16th is still in place. Write it so the sales tax cannot go into effect until the 16th is repealed, and you might have something.
Guess you will be stuck with your income tax then if the rest of us are unsucessful in repealing the income tax and replacing it with an NRST. Guaranteed your conditions are is one certain way to assure an NRST will not replace the income tax system. As the last 100years of experience in attempting to get rid of income taxes has demonstrated.
I wouldn't worry about the Euro. Europe is a has been. It's a socialist cesspool and population growth projections are so dismal that maintaining an industrial base could be impossible in a few years. The economic and military power of the US is where I'd make my long term currency bets.
Dollar Reaches 18-Month High Against Euro
Monday November 7, 4:05 pm ET
By Matt Moore, AP Business Writer
FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) -- The U.S. dollar built on gains from last week, pushing the 12-nation euro to below $1.18 Monday.
In late New York trading, the euro bought $1.1793, down from $1.182 in New York on Friday. It last touched those levels in May 2004 and at its debut on Jan. 1, 1999, when it bought $1.179. The U.S. currency also briefly rose to a 26-month high against the Japanese yen, hitting 118.38 yen before falling back to 117.62 yen.
The dollar was helped by the 12th straight increase in the overnight lending rate between banks Tuesday at a meeting of the U.S. Federal Reserve. Policy makers raised the rate to 4 percent, the highest level in more than four years. By contrast, the European Central Bank left its rate unchanged last week at 2 percent, where it has been for almost 2 1/2 years.
Carl B. Weinberg, chief economist for Valhalla, New York-based High Frequency Economics Ltd., said the dollar would hold its ground against the euro because of U.S. willingness to raise interest rates.
"Starting in 2004, the Fed started to normalize interest rates," he said. "A return to more normal spreads started a process of normalizing the dollar's value. This is the dollar appreciation we have been seeing recently."
Higher interest rates help boost the U.S. currency by making dollar-denominated securities relatively more attractive.
The dollar also got a boost on Friday after the U.S. Labor Department reported that payrolls grew by 56,000 in October. The figure was lower than expected, but still seen as a sign the U.S. job market was slowing recovering from the effects of Hurricane Katrina.
The euro, meanwhile, suffered from worries about the riots in France. Violence has continued for more than a week across the country, as rioters torched cars and buildings in the worst civil unrest there in at least a decade.
The British pound fell to $1.7434 from 1.7510 in New York, after weaker-than-expected manufacturing data showed output falling 0.3 percent on the month in September, its biggest monthly drop since March. The dollar rose to 1.3083 Swiss francs from 1.3059, and to 1.1894 Canadian dollars from 1.1834.
I don't understand where all these dollar paranoids come from. There is good money to be made right now buying the dollar on weakness.
Because FREEDOM is always better than slavery!
All? What about the PREBATE that goes with the FairTax: EVERY family gets a PREBATE of $180-$700 a MONTH, depending on family size?
Oh -- and BTW: what happened to the 1986 tax reform, pushed by FLAT TAXERS who had to compromise, leave the IRS in place, and watch 40,000 pages added to the federal tax code since?
You're nose is growing. The FairTax is NOT regressive. The prebate assures that the FairTax is at least as progressive as the current system.
Willie isn't very creative......does that everytime a FairTax article is posted. It's an adolescent stunt....but I would expect nothing more.
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
The evil IRS boogeyman is replaced by "compassionate" cradle-to-grave Social Security redistribution for the masses...
The Middle Class gets squashed like a bug under the oppressive burden of this scheme, and elite investors become lords of a 21st Century feudal system.
The convoluted "simplicity" of the NRST is a pile of crap.
What about not having to report such information to the government?
Now they need to know your family size?
Does that include "special" families?
Nowadays, families aren't just Mom & Pop, two kids, a cat and a dog anymore.
Linder's probably expanding the definition to include gerbils, just to get Barney Frank's vote.
What about not having to report such information to the government?
So don't report how many are in your household. 0 legal residents get the appropriate amount of sales tax rebate, $0.
Fair Tax Act of 2005 (Introduced in House)
`SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE.
`Each qualified family shall be eligible to receive a sales tax rebate each month. The sales tax rebate shall be in an amount equal to the product of--
`SEC. 302. QUALIFIED FAMILY.
`(a) General Rule- For purposes of this chapter, the term `qualified family' shall mean 1 or more family members sharing a common residence. All family members sharing a common residence shall be considered as part of 1 qualified family.
`(b) Family Size Determination-
*** SNIP ***
`(d) Annual Registration- In order to receive the family consumption allowance provided by section 301, a qualified family must register with the sales tax administering authority in a form prescribed by the Secretary. The annual registration form shall provide--
`(e) Registration not Mandatory- Registration is not mandatory for any qualified family.
`(f) Effect of Failure to Provide Annual Registration- Any qualified family that fails to register in accordance with this section within 30 days of the family determination date, shall cease receiving the monthly family consumption allowance in the month beginning 90 days after the family determination date.
`(g) Effect of Curing Failure to Provide Annual Registration- Any qualified family that failed to timely make its annual registration in accordance with this section but subsequently cures its failure to register, shall be entitled to up to 6 months of lapsed sales tax rebate payments. No interest on lapsed payment amount shall be paid.
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Oh, I was hoping you already had a well-thought-out response to this part of the FairTax, which has ALWAYS been a part of it. I'm sorry I mistook you for someone who'd done their homework before spouting off so voluminously, constantly and self-righteously.
You think stating the obvious is an adolescent stunt?
BTW, do you still work for the FairTax organization?
You'll have to excuse Willie Green. Apparently, there's a Scientologist hiding in his closet and that seems to be distracting him.
By all means. And don't forget that your state, district will be under-represented in Congress.
Why that must be just awful! The poor dear. I wonder if there's anything we can do to help him...
Of all the arguments against the Fair Tax this one takes the fruit cake.
You don't have to report your family size or members. It's NOT required, under the Fairtax plan. You just wouldn't get the prebate.
That seems to be a favorite tactic for the detractors: latch onto a lie and repeat it ad nauseum, no matter how many times it's misproven.
While this may be the most crazy and irrelevant such fanstasy posed to date, it's at least harmless in that there's a roughly zero chance anyone will take it seriously. It's also quite amusing, in a tin-foil hat sort of way. (Kind of like reading PJ-Comix's DUmmie FUnnies.)
I VOLUNTEER for the FairTax Organization. I have never been an employee, nor will I ever accept a dime for the time spent promoting the FairTax.
Whether you have anything to do with the FairTax organization or not has NOTHING to do with how valid or invalid your arguments are; I thought it was only DemocRATS who made such irrational charges. Also see: The "Who funded it?" (or the "Who paid you?") FALLACY
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.