Skip to comments.The Passion of the Splice: Gibson sues CleanFlicks
Posted on 11/18/2005 6:38:17 PM PST by solitas
Christian vs Christian in pop culture smackdown:
"Mel Gibson's film production company has filed a lawsuit against a Utah firm for editing his movie The Passion of the Christ. The suit targets Ray Lines and his company CleanFlicks, which edits the nudity, violence and foul language out of films.
"The lawsuit is not asking for compensation, KUTV reports, but rather seeks to shut down CleanFlicks for good."
It seems pretty much the same as if I bought books and resold them with the steamy pages razored out.
I wish I could get custom movies - I'd like that one PG on the violence, PG-13 on sex and language please. There's a lot of highly praised movies I've skipped because I knew they'd be too violent for me - The Patriot for instance, or Braveheart.
Artistic integrity, I suppose. Like putting a bathrobe on the Venus de Milo.
Yeah, with a tape you can actually cut things out of it and re-sell the remainder. I don't know about a DVD though - would they have to rip it, edit it, burn it, and destroy the original?
T'would make more sense to rip/edit/save once to burn many times WHILE paying the distributor for copies they've so cloned.
I could imagine gibson's so full of himself that he doesn't want his snuff-flick edited and doesn't _care_ that people don't want to see gratuitous violence.
gratuitous violence? snuff-flick?? what are you babbling about?? it showed what My Lord and Savior went through in order to save my unworthy soul. I had never really understood the extent of his suffering, and his love. i thought it was the most accurate passion movie i have ever seen.
as far as gibson being full of himself, if that was the case he would be suing for monetary loss.
if someone wants to see the edited version, wait for it to come onto a network channel (abc, cbs, nbc).
Unfortunately, I don't think that Cleanflicks has a leg to stand on since their actions, even though they ensure that the owners of the films get properly paid, nonetheless do not fall under legally-recognized concept of "fair use", and I don't think even the new laws explicitly allowing for auto-editing players allow for what Cleanflicks is doing (producing edited copies of films).
I am somewhat curious, though, what would have been the legal implications--prior to video taking over everything--of a company which purchased 16mm film prints, edited them, and then sold the edited films? Having to edit the film prints individually would probably be more trouble than it was worth, though with the right sort of equipment it wouldn't be too bad. Anyone know if anyone ever did that? Note that this is a very different situation from editing a film and then selling duplicates of the edited film (as companies like Castle Films very frequently did in 8mm); for that, copyright permission would obviously be required as for any mass-duplication effort.
Should have the film in it's unedited form. Should show the most crucial part of history warts and all.
I watched the movie and had no problem with the "violence." It's no different from what Catholics have been portraying in the Stations of the Cross and innumerable paintings of the Passion and Crucifixion for two thousand years. It's no different from reading the Gospel accounts. None of it is gratuitous, and there has not been a single incident of anyone being driven to violence by seeing this film.
Sure, the scourging is tough to watch, and the nailing. But that's what the Passion is about.
There's more to this than the first ten posts touch on.
Mel is against nudity and obscenity.
Clean Flicks is run by non-Catholics and I'll bet you their edits maybe perceived and interpreted by Gibson as anti-Catholic.
I'll bet this comes out later on.
Mel would not want to shutdown a place that cleans up movies unless there is something else going on.
And, of course, what they're doing in terms of artistic works is an obscenity.
What would you edit out of the film to make it less Catholic? (and more Protestant)? They're clearly editing out the violence. And Gibson has been nude in quite a few films himself.
For example: the scene were Claudia gives the towels to Our Lady and Mary Magdalene, which they use to soak up the Precious Blood.
But you're not enjoying "the genius Hollywood" when you see an edited movie. You're seeing someone else's work. Thus when you see Mel Gibson's name scrolling across the screen in this version, you're being lied to. It's not Gibson's movie; it's the work of some hack in Orem, Utah. You're being robbed as a consumer and Gibson is being robbed as an artist.
If you do not like the material in Gibson's movies, then you shouldn't watch them. Your desire to be "comfortable" while watching a movie doesn't give someone else the right to steal from Gibson or any other artist. Encouraging theft isn't the sort of thing a Christian should do.
But in those versions, the artist is able to maintain artistic control. And if the director and the editors can't come to an agreement, the director is able to have his name removed from the new version. (Ever wonder how Alan Smithee could have a directing career that spans 5 decades?) I doubt that the CleanFlicks version calls itself "Alan Smithee's Passion of the Christ".
Take away the violence in either, and you have taken away the story as well.
Again I couldn't agree with you more. It would be so wonderful for the directors to release those edited versions to the public. That way people would be getting the movies they want any way they wanted (original, directors cut, unrated, and edited) Almost like a KFC(original , crispy, extra spicy, and skinless) That way the actors and producers would have control, and there wouldn't have to be a third party trying to keep the feeling of the movie while taking out the explitives. But until that happens we go back to the same old story. Right or Wrong people want the edited movies, they know exactly what they are getting, so give the people what they want. Maybe these lawsuit will give enough public attention that Hollywood will clue in that there really are a lot of people that love movies but don't like the "BUT..." that comes with them.
I will admit that I saw both of those movies, yes I did see them edited. Then to see the difference I saw the original Braveheart. Again I will admit that I like the edited one better.
I didn't feel like I missed the story. They are such powerful movies
I am not going to get on a biased rampage promoting edited movies but I enjoyed them.
There may be a market for edited movies, but there's also a market for kiddie porn. Just because a market exists, that doesn't mean that the market ought to be satisfied.
Movies are intellectual property. The owners of that IP are the ones who have the right to say what will or will not be done with that IP. The hack in Orem doesn't own the rights to Gibson's movie. He owns a license to view his copy. He can trash his copy if he wishes, but that license doesn't give him the right to re-sell the trashed version. It's theft. If Mel Gibson doesn't wish to offer an edited version, then that's his business. The hack from Orem has no right to make that decision for him.
That's where the fair use law comes into play, it's a persons constitutional right to view material in the privacy of their own home however they deem appropriate.
You bring up child porn, wow that's left field. We are not exploiting anybody or forcing anybody to do something they don't understand. If someone wants to take out a scene in a movie so they can watch it with their kids, then who are you or me or anybody to tell them that they can't. If they don't have the knowledge or technology to do so, but they still want it done, then give your movie that you purchased to someone that does have the knowledge and technology to take that scene out, and sure pay them for providing that service. That's your right.
Stealing is defined as "To take (the property of another) without right or permission."
We are not taking anything from Gibson or any other producer. These people have bought an original copy of the movie. All the royalties have been paid all the credit has been given. Now all these people have these movies in their home and they want to change them. Go ahead do it.
Surely the violence can be shown less explicitly - someone is shot and dies - I would rather not see his head explode - but the story is still there.
I agree that just because you want something, that doesn't mean that you have a right to get it. My mother taught me that very early in life.
But again we are not dealing with us altering someone elses Intelectual property and then selling that version instead of the original. It would be like taking Microsoft Windows (whichever version you choose) chop it up and then put it on the shelves as that original windows operating system.
This is completely different. We are not dealing the the initial exposure and sale of these movies. People see the original or at least purchase that one first, and then decide that they want to customize it to their personal wants and needs.
I feel that you and I are saying the same thing, just in different ways. We both agree whole heartedly that someones someones intelectual property is theirs and it is their right to maintain the integrity of it. For someone to alter and then try to pass it off to the public as the original or try to convince the public to buy the altered version INSTEAD of the original is so wrong.
But again back to the windows example. People buy the orignal version and then customize the setting and so forth to their specific needs. Of course Microsoft is keen enough to offer different options and custimizing features so that people don't have to do it themselves.
Thus we get back to the real point. If Hollywood would just release thier edited version then we wouldn't be having this conversation, but they haven't yet and our society is a society of choices and options. The constitution provides those freedoms so that's the way it will be.
It also allows us to speak freely in forums like this one. It is really great to talk to all of you. I'm glad I stumbled onto this forum.
Happy Thanksgiving weekend
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