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Trojan Horse? [Murtha medal issue a trap]
Mudville Gazette ^ | Jan 14th, 2006 | Greyhawk

Posted on 01/14/2006 11:27:23 AM PST by Fenris6

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To: StarCMC

I'm sorry, I misfollowed the posts.


51 posted on 01/15/2006 6:56:42 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: usmcobra
"John Glenn was a Hell of a Marine"

John Glenn is an "ex-Marine" who will be remembered as Bill Clinton's biggest cheerleader.

52 posted on 01/15/2006 6:58:05 PM PST by Godebert
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To: Calpernia

No problem! :o) *HUGS!*


53 posted on 01/15/2006 6:58:20 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
But, if you have no soul, it doesn't matter.


54 posted on 01/15/2006 6:58:30 PM PST by Lady Jag ( All I want is a kind word, a warm bed, and unlimited power)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

We had a troll last night with the handle of Saberrattler going on about how Murtha deserves respect because 'he was in combat, he KNOWS'.
My response was that Murtha is purposefully aiding the enemy and that anyone who wore a uniform knows better than to spout enemy propaganda.

Saberrattler has been banned.
But the current DNC/troll talking point is that people who served in uniform and currently try to demoralise the troops deserve our 'respect' because they 'know'.
So, heads up.


55 posted on 01/15/2006 6:59:17 PM PST by Darksheare (Tagline subverted for nefarious plans of nefariousness.)
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To: Fenris6

Attacking someone's war record is not honorable.


56 posted on 01/15/2006 7:12:39 PM PST by bnelson44 (Proud parent of a tanker! (Charlie Mike, son))
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
One more Tonk if I may

The "Move On" folks -- who have never had to write a letter home to a waiting wife, or mother, even in even in times of peace, telling them as them as their son's or husband's Commanding Officer why you are sending him home, not safe and sound to hug and kiss, but in an aluminum box. Those who have written these letters know the pain involved writing each one; those who haven't can never know.

57 posted on 01/15/2006 7:13:23 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: Radix

Just so everyone knows, they don't need us to entrap republicans into their plots and entanglements...

They can always lie to a subservant press and say we did whatever they want to say we did.

and of course we'll be barely able to disprove whatever they say, so Let's give them what they want.

Wanting something and getting what you want doesn't always work out the way you plan.


58 posted on 01/15/2006 7:14:20 PM PST by usmcobra (Liberal=progressive...Conservative="Retro?" That's way cooler than being just a Neo-con!)
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To: Godebert

I'll never call John Glenn an ex-Marine for being a democrat.


59 posted on 01/15/2006 7:17:29 PM PST by usmcobra (Liberal=progressive...Conservative="Retro?" That's way cooler than being just a Neo-con!)
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To: freema

You have a point about how vocal he's been in giving the jihadists some hope.


60 posted on 01/15/2006 7:17:44 PM PST by Peach
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

No self respecting veteran of ANY war could ever possibly say the kind of crap the Murtha has spewwed forth with. This is ESPECIALLY true with a honest to goodness veteran of the Vietnam War, since they would know first-hand just what a deleterious effect these kind of pronouncements could and would have on the morale of the troops in the field.

It is more than plain and obvious that Murtha is doing this for political gain, thus making him beneath contempt.

I say this as a veteran of the U.S.M.C. having served from 1969 - 1971.


61 posted on 01/15/2006 7:19:57 PM PST by Howie66 ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.")
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To: usmcobra

You call him whatever you want. He's still a traitor in my book.


62 posted on 01/15/2006 7:20:01 PM PST by Godebert
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To: Fenris6

I agree. Let's just stick to the facts, and leave the mud slinging to the Democrats.


63 posted on 01/15/2006 7:21:23 PM PST by airborne (If being a Christian was a crime, would there be enough evidence to convict you?)
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To: Howie66

Thank you for your service Howie66.


64 posted on 01/15/2006 7:22:05 PM PST by Radix (Welcome home 3 ID!)
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To: Godebert

What did John Glenn do?


65 posted on 01/15/2006 7:23:08 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Wristpin

Wow!


66 posted on 01/15/2006 7:23:58 PM PST by SuzyQue
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To: Baynative; Fenris6

Everyone advances to the point of their own incompetence. If you dont know when to get out of the game, the sharks attack and its over in an instant, regardless of any or all the good you may have done.

...also...

PX warriors are frauds at best. Liars.

To allow a liar to hold a position of public trust in the Congress of the United States is a travesty. I cant understand why anyone would encourage complacency in this issue. (Murtha, Kennedy, Conyers, Kerry, Barney Fag, etc, etc, etc..)

Kerry and Murtha. Birds of a feather using embellished military awards to gain political advantage.

The truth is all I want. ..and Im not afraid of any left wing liberal spin. If you parade your awards around to gain political clout then you have to be ready to explain them when you are called on the carpet.

Why is it so offensive to a liberal to be asked to show some integrity?

The dems are very bad at poker and cant take it when their bluffs are called.

Throw the bums out!


67 posted on 01/15/2006 7:25:44 PM PST by Delta 21 (MKC USCG-ret)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Completely disagree with this: TRUE conservatives, whether they are Independents, Republicans or Democrats (like Zell Miller etc) always put the troops 1st and foremost.

True conservatives put the mission of victory in every phase of the war on terror first and foremost.

68 posted on 01/15/2006 7:27:18 PM PST by No Longer Free State (No event has just one cause, no person has just one motive, no action has just the intended effect)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Bump!


69 posted on 01/15/2006 7:31:47 PM PST by Gucho
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To: Calpernia
"What did John Glenn do?"

Where were you during the Thompson hearings on the Communist Chinese pumping millions to the democrats? You would have thought that John Glenn was a paid defense attorney for the Red Commie bastards. John Glenn better get cremated....cause if he don't, I'm gonna piss on his traitor grave.

70 posted on 01/15/2006 7:35:23 PM PST by Godebert
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To: Radix

"Thank you for your service Howie66."

Thank you for your comments.

My only regret is that I didn't follow the lead of General H. Norman Schwartzkopff.....

After his second tour in Vietnam, he seriously considered resigning his commission as an Officer in the United States Army. He came within a blonde hair of doing so and then had this idea: Were he to do so, he would no longer be in a position to do anything about the state of the U.S. Army at that time.

At that time morale in the military was in the crapper, thanks in large part to the existing MSM and the efforts of the ilk that support "people" such as Hanoi John Kerry, Walter Cronkite, and Hanoi Jane Fonda.

General Schwartzkopff (Captain at this point of time, if I'm not mistaken) decided that by quitting the Army, he would let the real enemies of our country win. He decided to stay in.

My true regret is that I took the easy way out and left after my initial enlistment was up. Who knows what contributions I could have made had I stayed in the Corps? I was a good Marine and cared deeply for the men that I served with.

If I could only turn back the hands of time.......


71 posted on 01/15/2006 7:37:31 PM PST by Howie66 ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.")
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To: Godebert

I had no idea. Thanks for the extra info.

:(


72 posted on 01/15/2006 7:39:23 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Howie66

I read Schwartzkopf's autobio.

I think that I like him , but I am not sure,,,, politicians get stars and all that....

You sound like someone that persons close to me might like to know.

Thanks again.


73 posted on 01/15/2006 7:41:22 PM PST by Radix (Welcome home 3 ID!)
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To: Delta 21
Why is it so offensive to a liberal to be asked to show some integrity?

Its not, but begs the question, why now? Why not earlier? Is it for honor or petty revenge for making Moonbat comments.

The Marine Corps taught me to shape the battlefield, pick key terrain. Fight smart. Going after Murtha's Medal Hoax[?] is falling for a feint. Instead, take him down locally when he runs again.

74 posted on 01/15/2006 7:44:10 PM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: Fenris6

IMO, it isn't just for making Moonbat comments.


>>>Its not, but begs the question, why now?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1555707/posts
Rep. Murtha Working With Code Pink to Undermine Morale of Wounded at Walter Reed
Tuesday, January 10, 2006


Do you see a difference between the Vietnam Moratorium and Code Pink?


75 posted on 01/15/2006 7:52:20 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: bornagain progressive
Zell is a REAL Democrat. There just aren't very many left.

The rest are traitorous leftists who call themselves 'progressives.' They're as phony as three dollar bills.

(And some of them sign up on FR to troll and sow dissensions among those of us who really ARE born again).

Welcome to FR, phony. May your stay here be as short as your sense of values.

76 posted on 01/15/2006 7:59:19 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: Radix

Again, thanks for your comments, Radix.

And, Thank You for your service as well of that of your Son!

I know that you are more than just a little proud of him and joyful that he made it through, whole.

God Bless him and the rest of our troops!


77 posted on 01/15/2006 8:00:51 PM PST by Howie66 ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Is everyone who thinks that there may be no need to pursue this about Murtha a "Move On FReeper" in your view, Tonk?

Is there no room for those of us who see a major difference in pursuing this about a has-been loser like Murtha, and a despicable traitor like Kerry who was trying to be our Commander in Chief? Who don't see the value in this, but DO see the value in exposing Kerry?

Are we all condemned under the same umbrella? Even those of us who support the troops to the point of giving our sons?

78 posted on 01/15/2006 8:07:37 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: ohioWfan
As another Freeper said recently:

"Anyone who fraudulently claims a military award defames and demeans the courage and sacrifice of those who have received those honors legitimately. They deserve to be exposed and reviled, especially if they are politicians."

79 posted on 01/15/2006 8:11:15 PM PST by Godebert
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

thanks for the ping


80 posted on 01/15/2006 8:28:01 PM PST by vigilante2 (I'm the proud parent of a soldier)
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To: Godebert
I agree with that statement, and I am undecided about this, and open to persuasion.

My initial reaction is that Murtha, in spite of his histrionics, is a useless old man who exposed himself as a traitor on national TV, and has rendered himself as harmless and impotent as a political force as has Cindy Sheehan.

I am wary of Republicans getting involved in exposing him at the expense of higher values (like electing a President in 2008 who will defend us against terror and not causing a backlash by pursuing something that isn't necessary).

These are just questions that I'd like to ask without being labeled a "Move-on Freeper."

I don't think my support of the troops, or of our vets should be questioned because I don't come down hard on the side of pursuing these allegations against Murtha.

81 posted on 01/15/2006 8:33:47 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: StarCMC; Calpernia; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Star, I've tried to go over any possible reason for not questioning Murtha- to listen objectively to those who are hesitant. I don't know if I'm missing something, I hope I'm not. My gut and my instinct are that he needs to be made to stand down.

I don't lightly discount the arguement that it should be done right. Dad always said, "If you're going to to a job, do it right or don't do it at all."

I don't think this needs to lie on the shoulders of the Republicans.

Nor do I don't think it needs to lie on the shoulders of Vets.

And, I think it's repugnant to expect the burden to lie on the shoulders of active duty personnel.

I think we owe eternal gratitude to Swift Vets.
I never will understand why they waited until the election. Thirty years living with the lies of John Kerry had to be excrutiating. I don't want another generation to live one minute with these lies. But the clock is ticking...and they are! I'm not sure what is the best way to handle this situation.

I know SV did not want their 'mission' to be confused with politics. Their sole objective was to keep Kerry from becoming CIC.


As long as Murtha purports to speak with absolute moral authority (a la Maureen Dowd/Cindy Sheehan) we have the absolute moral authority to know if he is who he says he is...

and given his other past(s) only fools would to allow him to continue unchallenged.

The sole objective, IMHO, should be to stop Murtha from giving aid and comfort to our enemy, in essence, to issue some form of gag order, i.e. shut him up.

Is there any other way way to expose his present bs other than to publicly confront him with his past bs.

Whose responsiblity is this?

What's wrong with this picture, anyway?
A thirty year reservist (I'VE GOT NOTHING AGAINST RESERVISTS!) taking hold of the microphone and continuing to yap into the PA system (yes, I know, that is a very good pun) that the CIC and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are dumb f*@%$.

I don't want to be melodramatic, but we all know there's more to come where this comes from. When, where, and how, that's anybody's guess.





82 posted on 01/15/2006 8:52:25 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: Fenris6; ohioWfan



Fenrise6-I smell a dem traitor trying to cover a fellow traitor's arse as well as her stepson's.

Ohio-perhaps this will help you to see why this traitor needs to go


The Los Angeles Times revealed on June 14, 2005 that Murtha, as the top Democrat on House Defense Appropriations, has been funneling tens of millions of taxpayer dollars into KSA Consulting, the lobbying company of his brother, Kit Murtha, and KSA clients.

Last year, Murtha strongarmed the Navy into transferring the Hunters Point Shipyard to the city of San Francisco, which had a contract with a company called Lennar, Inc. to “redevelop” the 500-acre site bringing millions in profits to Lennar. The Senior Vice-President of Lennar is Laurence Pelosi, Democrat House Leader Nancy Pelosi’s stepson.

This year, Murtha inserted several “earmarks” (specifically designated appropriations) into various defence bills giving millions of federal research dollars to companies owned by the children of Democrat Congressman Paul Kanjorski of Pennsylvania’s 11th district adjoining Murtha’s 12th.


83 posted on 01/15/2006 8:53:56 PM PST by snuffy smiff ("the theory of Communism may be summed up in a single sentence:abolition of private property"-K.Marx)
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To: freema

I have carefully read several threads posted here at FR and all the comments attached to each, and I have to say, I have reached the same conclusions. Like I have said, I personally do not look down on ANYONE'S service -- I have offered NONE to my country (not that I'm proud of that, it's just a fact) so I feel like I have no ground to stand on when casting the stones. HOWEVER, I look at people like Tonk and others, and they DO have the basis. and the service under their collective belts, and they are calling it into question. It is my obligation -- and pleasure -- to back them 100% and do anything in my power to aid them. It's the least I can do. That's where I am on this anyway.


84 posted on 01/15/2006 8:58:16 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: freema

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1558666/posts?page=137#137


85 posted on 01/15/2006 8:58:19 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

I appreciate what you do for our vets, troops, and national security. Everyone who's been paying attention knows who the move-on freepers are, and what their agenda is. You're helping to expose them, and the traitors who continue to put our nation and our troops at risk every day. Keep it up Tonk! Thank you for your service, past and present.


86 posted on 01/15/2006 9:05:16 PM PST by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Fenris6; All
This is an on the spot correction for me. If I would have found out earlier I would have been pinging of the deep end the second this became public. Being a soldier worthy of respect and a congressman serving the public is a full time job. No free passes or quid pro quo. If he wants to play those politics he had better not use his military record to bolster his career. This Chief, for one, will call him on it.

Shame on anyone that knew or suspected and said nothing. Shame on Murtha for not laying it on the line and letting the chips fall where they should. This probably never would have seen the light of day if Murtha hadn't been making his stupid comments. If he thinks he will discredit anyone for attacking him on this he is as out of touch as the rest of his party. They don't scare me, and the fear of what the dems might do or say in retaliation for being called to task for any of their treasonous acts is all the ammo they have. Just a lot of hot air.

Come on fellow conservatives!! We are in charge now! Letting the liberals act like they still retain any power is just as bad as letting a peanut farmer shake hands with a terrorist on the steps of the White House. Well, we ain't on that road any more!

Bloating your ribbon bar for any reason (getting more tail on liberty, garnering clout in a political debate, or justification as to why you would make a good C-in-C) is shameful and disrespects every soldier who earned the medal. And its all so very easy to prove. He either has the proper documentation or he doesn't. If he cant prove it, then don't use it as fodder for your fight. The references to these awards didn't just magically appear on his web page. To think that no one would question them is the arrogance that has bloated the government to what it is today.
87 posted on 01/15/2006 9:05:55 PM PST by Delta 21 (MKC USCG-ret)
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To: StarCMC

Me too, Star, me too.

And spending the weekend with four jarheads, looking them in the eyes...two of them back from Iraq...twisting arms to get some stories : ) thinking about what I heard, first hand accounts, and that this son of a bitch could be putting their brothers in more danger just really freaken stokes my fire.

Dang. I was kind of rational until I veered off the road, there. : ) I'm going back to my happy place LOL.


88 posted on 01/15/2006 9:11:39 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: freema

Think happy thoughts, think happy thoughts!

LOL - ok Tinkerbell -- all better now?? He he he!!


89 posted on 01/15/2006 9:12:37 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: ohioWfan; freema; Radix

"Is everyone who thinks that there may be no need to pursue this about Murtha a "Move On FReeper" in your view, Tonk?"

The real "Move On FReepers" are those who refuse to do anything about hanoi kerry and attack Viet Nam Vets like me who served at the same time as hanoi kerry in Viet Nam.

freema is a mother of someone serving now,
like your son had in the past, in Iraq

And Radix, who's son just came back after his 2nd tour in Iraq

Perhaps you should ask them this very question.


90 posted on 01/15/2006 9:14:14 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: snuffy smiff
Thanks for that info.

I have no problem with having Murtha 'go.' It's what I think should happen to him.

What I am questioning (though not condemning) is making this a cause of the Republican party

Since I am feeling some ambivalence about this, I'm finding it hard to articulate exactly what I mean, so I apologize for any confusion about what I am saying.

However, I had NO ambivalence about Kerry. He was trying to become the C-in-C of our fine, brave troops.........including my SON. He could not get away with his charade.

91 posted on 01/15/2006 9:15:53 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Tonk..........my questions are about Murtha, not Kerry.

I understand the desire to rid the Congress of all traitors and posseurs.........but that would include most of the RAT party.

My only question is the cost/benefit of pursuing this. I think Murtha has marginalized himself by his idiocy. If I thought anyone except the fringe kooks on the left took him seriously, I might be more persuaded of the value of this effort.

92 posted on 01/15/2006 9:18:49 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: Calpernia

I think I screwed up, dangitallanyhow!!! and meant to type Korea.

Good points anyhow, I think. Now that I'm done panicing about correcting my blunder, I'm going to go see what you wrote!


93 posted on 01/15/2006 9:19:16 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: ohioWfan

What is the difference between what Kerry did with the Vietnam Moratorium and Murtha with Code Pink?


94 posted on 01/15/2006 9:23:13 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Fenris6

I think you're way too paranoid. You're crediting the looney left with far more cleverness than they actually have.


95 posted on 01/15/2006 9:23:16 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: StarCMC

You just had to use the codeword Tinkerbell, didn't ya.
It's a special word to me, and will keep me in my special happy place, but with a nice warm fire. Of all the words you could have used : )

Semper Fi, Star.


96 posted on 01/15/2006 9:24:51 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: Calpernia
Kerry was trying to become our Commander in Chief. He was going to try to lead our troops into (or out of) battle, and was a lying traitor.

Murtha is impotent, now and forever. That is the difference, IMO.

97 posted on 01/15/2006 9:25:14 PM PST by ohioWfan (PROUD Mom of an Iraq War VET! THANKS, son!!!!)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Thanks for the ping!


98 posted on 01/15/2006 9:26:55 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: ohioWfan; freema; Radix
Again, your question is best answered by those
who have served, like your son did, in Iraq

murtha, in my book, has endangered our troops lives
by aligning with code pink
99 posted on 01/15/2006 9:27:19 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: ohioWfan

But he is a Congressman.

It is the Congress that is suppose to protect the rights of the citizens of the states.

We that live in blue states are basically POWs as long as we have corrupt officials.

Murtha rode into his seat with his service record.

Now, PA basically can't have an honest election with the shape Philly is in.


100 posted on 01/15/2006 9:28:38 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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