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Replace our economy crippling federal taxes
Juneau Empire . Com ^ | 4/8/06 | DONALD N. ANDERSON and WILEY BROOKS

Posted on 04/09/2006 7:42:37 AM PDT by Eaglewatcher

FairTax legislation would shift taxation from production to consumption!

We have advanced the idea there should be a Boston Tea Party-type revolt against our federal tax system. It is unfair, complex beyond comprehension, burdensome, oppressive, invades constitutional rights and is harmful to economic growth and prosperity.

Sound off on the important issues at The revolt advocated was not to stop paying your income taxes but to join in a national effort to replace a system which has been totally corrupted. Steve Forbes is correct when he says "the existing income tax system is beyond repair and the only solution is to repeal the laws which govern it, dissolve the IRS and replace it with a system which is simple, fair and transparent."

Is there such a plan? Yes, and bills have been introduced in the U.S. House and Senate. House Bill 25 was introduced in 2003 by Rep. John Linder, R-Ga., and Rep. Collin Peterson, D-Minn. Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska, is one of 50 co-sponsors in the House. Sens. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., and Tom Coburn, R-Okla., are co-sponsors of Senate Bill 25. The proposed legislation is patterned after a plan researched and authored by Americans for Fair Taxation known as the "FairTax." Former Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, D-N.Y., remarked that the FairTax is "the most well-researched tax proposal to come before Congress ... a decade and more than $22 million in research."

The FairTax bills would shift the focus of taxation from production to consumption. It would abolish all federal personal, gifts, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment and corporate taxes and replace them with a federal retail sales tax. Everyone would get all of their pay each payday minus state and local deductions. Your gross pay becomes your net pay.

Studies from Harvard University identified that most Americans are not aware they are paying an average 22 percent tax embedded in every new purchase. With these embedded costs 90 percent removed, retail prices would drop, and the initial sales tax rate of 23 percent added to new goods and services, would leave retail costs roughly unchanged. The Fairtax will raise the same revenue as today. Business-to-business transactions are exempt. Social Security and Medicare are funded from the sales tax revenue.

All US Social Security cardholders would receive a rebate equivalent to the sales tax expected to be paid on essential goods and services called poverty level expenditures. The size of the rebate is determined by the Department of Health and Human Services' poverty level multiplied by the tax rate. It is called a "prebate" since it precedes the tax and requires no record keeping. The prebate eliminates the "regressive" argument that a national sales tax would penalize low-income families.

Low-income families would actually benefit because they would not have the combined Federal Insurance Contributions Act-Federal Unemployment Tax Act withheld (15.3 percent) and like everyone else would receive the prebate. Almost all Americans see a significant net gain.

Respected economists calculate the efficiency and incentive gains of the FairTax will also drive our economy to unprecedented new heights.

Economists estimate that reducing tax-compliance cost will cause real investment to grow by 76 percent, exports to jump by 26 percent, and interest rates to drop 20 to 30 percent. Billions more will be collected from the underground economy which is missed today.

The long-term effect on our trade-deficit will be dramatic. U.S. products will compete in foreign markets free of the approximately 22 percent current tax burden. With the FairTax, U.S. and international companies will re-locate to the United States because we will be a tax haven. High-worth Americans are moving their citizenship and much of their spending to other countries because of the 55 percent U.S. estate tax. The FairTax would bring these people and their associated jobs back home.

To learn more about the FairTax plan, visit FairTax's Web site online. For the FairTax to become a reality there must be a groundswell of demand at the grassroots level. Let's make April 15 just another nice spring day.

• Wiley Brooks is the Alaska director of Americans for Fair Taxation in Anchorage, and Donald N. Anderson is an Anchorage businessman.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: economy; fair; fairtax; fraudtax; scam; tax
They have figured it out in Alaska! Time to get the chill off and get cooking.
1 posted on 04/09/2006 7:42:39 AM PDT by Eaglewatcher
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To: Eaglewatcher

On the other hand:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/cox/cox8.html


2 posted on 04/09/2006 7:55:25 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: Eaglewatcher

Fair Tax better-than-what-we-have-now bump.


3 posted on 04/09/2006 7:58:49 AM PDT by manic4organic (We won. Get over it.)
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To: Eaglewatcher
"FairTax legislation would shift taxation from production to consumption!"

Given that I spend everything I make -- and that ain't gonna change -- all we're doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Taking 50% of my income or 50% of what I spend amounts to the same thing.

Call me with a proposal that drops the number to 10%.

4 posted on 04/09/2006 8:34:03 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
You're going to see a ton of these "agendatorials" posted as news between now and the 15th. 17% flat tax is the right answer, 10-5-2 (local, state, federal). It's truly fair, and non-regressive. All other domestic taxation goes. Any "play money" the government needs would have to come from taxes on foreign goods and services. I believe you would see the deficit gone in about 3 years, and general/retirement savings go up by a factor of ten. Unemployment would drop to around 2.7-3%.
5 posted on 04/09/2006 9:21:46 AM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: xcamel

>>>"Unemployment would drop to around 2.7-3%"<<<

It is not possible for unemployment to drop to 3% and still have Welfare, unless of course we don't count those that are on Welfare and if that's the case we could say we are there now.

TT


6 posted on 04/09/2006 9:40:16 AM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: Eaglewatcher; lewislynn; RobFromGa; Your Nightmare; Dimples; Always Right

Let's see: a 29.87% federal sales tax + 8% state sales tax + 2.25% local sales tax = The end of the consumer economy + the death of the (non-illegal immigrant) service economy.


7 posted on 04/09/2006 10:01:23 AM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: robertpaulsen
"Taking 50% of my income or 50% of what I spend amounts to the same thing"

You miss the big picture. you are sitting here where income taxes are imbedded in the cost of everything made HERE but nothing made elsewhere. You get frustrated that the finished imported products sold in Walmart cost less that what it would cost to buy the raw materials here. There are two partys in the global market that supplies Walmart, domestic that pays all the taxes and imports that don't. You will slowly die of starvation unless that imbalance can be changed.

8 posted on 04/09/2006 10:09:03 AM PDT by det dweller too
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To: det dweller too; Eaglewatcher; lewislynn; RobFromGa; Your Nightmare; Dimples; Always Right; ...
robertpaulsen wrote, confused as usual:

"-- Taking 50% of my income or 50% of what I spend amounts to the same thing --"

You miss the big picture. you are sitting here where income taxes are imbedded in the cost of everything made HERE but nothing made elsewhere.
You get frustrated that the finished imported products sold in Walmart cost less that what it would cost to buy the raw materials here.
There are two partys in the global market that supplies Walmart, -- domestic that pays all the taxes and imports that don't.
You will slowly die of starvation unless that imbalance can be changed.
8 dd2

Well put, det dweller...
None of the above 'pro income tax' people can explain ~why~ they want our present insane system to continue.
Could it be that they all have some sort of vested interest in business as usual, and don't care if this Republic is on the road to serfdom? --

Bet on it.

9 posted on 04/09/2006 12:59:24 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: Everybody; det dweller too

If you want less of something, you should tax it. And what do we do in America?

We tax income. -- We tax investment. -- We tax savings. -- We tax productivity.

Wise words on an "old adage". --

Incredible that such a basic point has been so totally ignored for over two hundred years.


10 posted on 04/09/2006 1:06:27 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Could it be that they all have some sort of vested interest in business as usual, and don't care if this Republic is on the road to serfdom?
Or maybe some of us think it's just a bad idea.
11 posted on 04/09/2006 1:10:01 PM PDT by lewislynn (Fairtax = lies, hope, wishful thinking, conjecture and lies. (no it's not a mistake)
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To: tpaine
If you want less of something, you should tax it. And what do we do in America?
Consume!
12 posted on 04/09/2006 1:11:00 PM PDT by lewislynn (Fairtax = lies, hope, wishful thinking, conjecture and lies. (no it's not a mistake)
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To: lewislynn

Consume wisely! -- Save and invest what you can.


13 posted on 04/09/2006 1:13:28 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: lewislynn
Could it be that they all have some sort of vested interest in business as usual, and don't care if this Republic is on the road to serfdom?

Or maybe some of us think it's just a bad idea.

Or maybe some, like you, actually think very little.

14 posted on 04/09/2006 1:17:16 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
We tax income. -- We tax investment. -- We tax savings. -- We tax productivity.
There would't be any income, investment, savings, or productivity if there wasn't consumption.
15 posted on 04/09/2006 1:18:18 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: tpaine
Consume wisely! -- Save and invest what you can.
If everyone did that we would have terrible returns on our investments.
16 posted on 04/09/2006 1:20:58 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: tpaine
Consume wisely! -- Save and invest what you can.

So you think an economic depression is a good thing? If people reduce their consuption, the economy goes in the toilet.

17 posted on 04/09/2006 2:09:46 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: det dweller too
"You miss the big picture. you are sitting here where income taxes are imbedded in the cost of everything made HERE but nothing made elsewhere."

And what would you do with the Fair Tax? Raise the cost of imports by 28%. Gee, thanks for making American products more competitive.

18 posted on 04/09/2006 2:21:59 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Your Nightmare; Always Right
If you want less of something, you should tax it. And what do we do in America?

We tax income. -- We tax investment. -- We tax savings. -- We tax productivity.

Your Nightmare inanely replies:

There would't be any income, investment, savings, or productivity if there wasn't consumption.

Consume wisely! -- Save and invest what you can.

Your Nightmare inanely again:
If everyone did that we would have terrible returns on our investments.

Always Right chimes in:

So you think an economic depression is a good thing? If people reduce their consuption, the economy goes in the toilet.

You two are so frantic to defend the status quo that you forget our present tax structure is insane.
Our Republic is in an economic toilet, and you fellas are in there too, with your eyes shut, blindly blowing bubbles in sewage you see as 'a good thing'.

Wake up and smell the stink of income tax socialism.

19 posted on 04/09/2006 4:42:50 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Our Republic is in an economic toilet,
Exaggerate much?
20 posted on 04/09/2006 4:48:47 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: tpaine
Consume wisely! -- Save and invest what you can.
Mind your own business, I'll do what I want with my money, thank you.

After I save and invest what do I do with it?...Look at it, count it or... consume!...

(paraphrasing your own words) What do YOU want to tax to make less of/destroy... "consumption"

21 posted on 04/09/2006 4:50:17 PM PDT by lewislynn (Fairtax = lies, hope, wishful thinking, conjecture and lies. (no it's not a mistake)
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To: tpaine; Always Right; Your Nightmare; Dimples; lewislynn; balrog666; robertpaulsen
None of the above 'pro income tax' people can explain ~why~ they want our present insane system to continue. Could it be that they all have some sort of vested interest in business as usual, and don't care if this Republic is on the road to serfdom? --

If the FairTax is such a great idea, why do its proponents have to misrepresent it in order to try to gain supporters?

And why do they have to demonize those who honestly disagree with their plan, and make incorrect statements alleging that these opponents are acting for some terrible secret reason?

Personally having just sent in my final gigantic payment to the IRS for my 2005 taxes, I would pay less under the FairTax at the outset. But I happen to believe that the plan would do serious damage to our economy and likely cause the end of whatever political party is stupid enough to make such as rash modification.

This FairTax pipe dream has zero chance of passing.

22 posted on 04/09/2006 4:51:30 PM PDT by RobFromGa (In decline, the Old Media gets more shrill, thrashing about like a dinosaur caught in the tar pits.)
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To: Your Nightmare

It's only exaggeration to those like you, blind to the economic reality of taxing income..


23 posted on 04/09/2006 4:55:46 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: lewislynn
lynn wrote:

Mind your own business, I'll do what I want with my money, thank you.

Gladly; -- an income tax minds your business, while a fairtax would let you do what you want with ALL of your money..

After I save and invest what do I do with it?...Look at it, count it or... consume!... (paraphrasing your own words) What do YOU want to tax to make less of/destroy... "consumption"

Tax consumption as little as possible, but fairly. -- No exceptions.

24 posted on 04/09/2006 5:11:09 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: RobFromGa
None of the above 'pro income tax' people can explain ~why~ they want our present insane system to continue.

Could it be that they all have some sort of vested interest in business as usual, and don't care if this Republic is on the road to serfdom?

Rob:
-- If the FairTax is such a great idea, why do its proponents have to misrepresent it in order to try to gain supporters?

You ~imagine~ it's being 'misrepresented', because you have an interest in doing so.

And why do they have to demonize those who honestly disagree with their plan, and make incorrect statements alleging that these opponents are acting for some terrible secret reason?

Get real, no one is "demonizing" you. I'm sure you have a perfectly normal reason for your opposition, -- Probably like making a living.

Personally having just sent in my final gigantic payment to the IRS for my 2005 taxes, I would pay less under the FairTax at the outset. But I happen to believe that the plan would do serious damage to our economy
[unsupported 'belief']
and likely cause the end of whatever political party is stupid enough to make such as rash modification.

Irrational. If it passed, the party responsible would be the hero's.

This FairTax pipe dream has zero chance of passing.

So said the beer barons, just before 1919.

25 posted on 04/09/2006 5:28:54 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
You two are so frantic to defend the status quo that you forget our present tax structure is insane. Our Republic is in an economic toilet, and you fellas are in there too, with your eyes shut, blindly blowing bubbles in sewage you see as 'a good thing'. Wake up and smell the stink of income tax socialism.

Wake up and quit smelling your own farts, tpaine. The rest of the world is going FLAT TAX and it is working, so why risk the entire US economy on an idea that hasn't even undergone peer review by economists?

26 posted on 04/09/2006 6:03:53 PM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: tpaine
It's only exaggeration to those like you, blind to the economic reality of taxing income..
Sorta makes you wonder how we got to be what we are....Oh that's right in your words we're a toilet.

It's not the income tax that put you in an economic toilet it's your wages and benefits.

27 posted on 04/09/2006 6:10:41 PM PDT by lewislynn (Fairtax = lies, hope, wishful thinking, conjecture and lies. (no it's not a mistake)
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To: RobFromGa; tpaine
Personally having just sent in my final gigantic payment to the IRS for my 2005 taxes, I would pay less under the FairTax at the outset.
Interesting, since the Fairtax is revenue neutral and more money would be paid out in negative taxes either the Fairtax rate isn't adequate for revenue neutrality or someone else will be paying more.
28 posted on 04/09/2006 6:14:34 PM PDT by lewislynn (Fairtax = lies, hope, wishful thinking, conjecture and lies. (no it's not a mistake)
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To: tpaine
None of the above 'pro income tax' people can explain ~why~ they want our present insane system to continue.

A comment worthy of a Fairtax supporter: fallacious premise, fallacious interpretation, fallacious conclusion, in short, another pack of lies.

I (we) have explained numerous time why we dislike the FairTax:

- It is marketed using a misrepresentations and outright lies.

- It's supporters immediately descend to name-calling and character assassination with anyone who dares point out the flaws of the FairTax.

- It will likely sink the economy into a deep recession before any of the anticipated economic benefits can begin to take hold.

- It will penalize fixed income consumers as prices rise but their incomes do not.

- As advertised, it will raise insufficient revenue to replace the current tax system necessitating a substantial rate increase, or substantial deficit spending (anyone who thinks spending will be cut the first few years is delusional.)

- It will necessitate substantial increases in State and Local taxes so they can pay their share of FairTax revenue.

- It will flow substantially more money through the hands of the Federal Government than today's system increasing waste, lowering the velocity of money, and creating a massive magnet for political favoritism (the prebate)

- It relies on decade old simulations that do not properly model the economy and didn't accurately predict the behavior of the economy over the decade since publication.

For these reasons (and more) I do not support the FairTax. If you're going to attempt to represent my position, do it accurately or do not do it at all.
29 posted on 04/10/2006 10:42:28 AM PDT by Dimples
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To: Dimples
None of the above 'pro income tax' people can explain ~why~ they want our present insane system to continue.

A comment worthy of a Fairtax supporter: fallacious premise, fallacious interpretation, fallacious conclusion, in short, another pack of lies.

Sheer hype. -- You prove it by not explaining why you like our income tax system; -- instead you attack the FairTax.

I (we) have explained numerous time why we dislike the FairTax: - It is marketed using a misrepresentations and outright lies. - It's supporters immediately descend to name-calling and character assassination with anyone who dares point out the flaws of the FairTax. - It will likely sink the economy into a deep recession before any of the anticipated economic benefits can begin to take hold. - It will penalize fixed income consumers as prices rise but their incomes do not. - As advertised, it will raise insufficient revenue to replace the current tax system necessitating a substantial rate increase, or substantial deficit spending (anyone who thinks spending will be cut the first few years is delusional.) - It will necessitate substantial increases in State and Local taxes so they can pay their share of FairTax revenue. - It will flow substantially more money through the hands of the Federal Government than today's system increasing waste, lowering the velocity of money, and creating a massive magnet for political favoritism (the prebate) - It relies on decade old simulations that do not properly model the economy and didn't accurately predict the behavior of the economy over the decade since publication.

For these reasons (and more) I do not support the FairTax. If you're going to attempt to represent my position, do it accurately or do not do it at all.

I made a comment about you income tax devotees, and so far none of you has even addressed that issue.

30 posted on 04/10/2006 1:24:27 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

Put down the crack pipe, tpaine. Most of us are *FOR* the Flat Tax - a simple idea that has the merit of working everywhere it's been tried.


31 posted on 04/10/2006 2:39:16 PM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: balrog666

You must have a 'crack pipe' up yours.

Where has it been tried?


32 posted on 04/10/2006 4:08:44 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

Are you sh*tting me? Are you really that uninformed?


33 posted on 04/10/2006 4:20:54 PM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: balrog666

-- Make your point, if you have one.


34 posted on 04/10/2006 4:34:43 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

I think I just did.


35 posted on 04/10/2006 4:59:16 PM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: balrog666

Dream on.. The only 'point' you've made proves up my initial comment.


36 posted on 04/10/2006 5:04:43 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

Your ignorance of the issue speaks for itself.


37 posted on 04/10/2006 5:28:55 PM PDT by balrog666 (There is no freedom like knowledge, no slavery like ignorance. - Ali ibn Ali-Talib)
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To: balrog666

My comments stands, unrefuted:


--- None of the above 'pro income tax' people can explain ~why~ they want our present insane system to continue.

Could it be that they all have some sort of vested interest in business as usual, and don't care if this Republic is on the road to serfdom?

--Bet on it.


38 posted on 04/10/2006 6:34:03 PM PDT by tpaine
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