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Can We Please Stop Using This Argument?
jimmyakin.org ^ | 206.04.10 | Jimmy Akin

Posted on 04/10/2006 6:45:04 PM PDT by B-Chan

Can We Please Stop Using This Argument?

People can rationally come to different conclusions on what should be done about the presence of millions of illegal aliens in the United States, but as that matter is debated, we should at least try to avoid some of the most obviously absurd arguments.

I therefore propose that we, as a nation, retire the "Illegal aliens take jobs Americans won't do/don't want" argument.

This is patent nonsense.

Anybody using this argument either has no grasp of economics or is being disingenuous due to the presence of an ulterior motive. (Them's yer two choices, so take yer pick, Mr. Bush.)

To see the absurdity of this argument, let's cast it in its starkest form: Food.

Before we do that, though, let me issue

THE BIG RED DISCLAIMER: The following treatment has nothing to do with ethnicity. It has to do with economics. In what follows I will talk about two groups of people--illegal aliens (whatever their ethnicity) and Americans (whatever their ethnicity). The fact that most (but by no means all) of the illegal aliens in this country are Latino in origin is irrelevant to the economic principles involved, as is the fact that many Americans are also of Latino origin. If you need to, swap the terms "America" and "Americans" for those of a random country somewhere else on the planet. The economic principles apply no matter where you are.

Now . . .

It is often noted that illegal aliens play a large role in the construction, landscaping, and domestic service industries, but nice buildings, nice landscapes, and nice domestic services are luxuries. Our most pressing survival-related need is for food, and so the "Jobs Americans won't do" argument can be cast most starkly if we look at the role of illegal aliens in the agricultural industry.

Suppose that all of the illegal aliens working in the agricultural industry decided to quit their jobs. What would happen to the U.S.?

Will we be seeing headlines in the New York Times like this one? . . .

Food Rots In Fields As The Nation Starves!!!

Of course not.

Americans are not going to starve themselves to death because they "won't do" the job of harvesting the food.

Americans have been harvesting food ever since there have been Americans (otherwise they would have all starved long ago), so they are certainly capable of it.

Why, then, are so many illegal aliens taking the place of Americans in the agricultural industry?

Because they come from a different economic background and are willing to do the jobs for less.

The effect of illegal aliens in the agricultural industry is not that they do work that otherwise wouldn't get done. It's that they depress the wages in the agricultural industry to the point that such jobs are unattractive to Americans.

It's that whole supply-and-demand thing.

When you've got a greater supply of something than you have demand for it, the price will go down. If manufacturers make loads of DVD players and start to outstrip the demand for DVD players then the price of DVD players will go down as part of competition for customers.

Same thing happens in labor markets.

If the supply of agricultural workers outstrips the demand for agricultural workers then the wages attached to such jobs will go down as part of competition for employment. When the wages are depressed past a certain point, some of the workers will say, "Y'know, I could do better in a different industry" and they decide at that point that they "won't do" the agricultural jobs at the depressed wages being offered for those jobs.

But what happens if the labor pool shrinks? What happens if all the illegal aliens decide to quit?

When the supply of agricultural workers shrinks so that it no longer outstrips the demand for agricultural workers and employers start raising wages in order to attract the workers they need, and the work gets done.

Trust me, Americans are not going to starve themselves to death if they have no illegal aliens to harvest food.

What will happen instead is that the wages offered for such jobs will rise, Americans will start valuing such jobs more as a result (instead of looking down on them), and they will start doing them. The food will get harvested, and when it is sold to the public the added labor costs will be passed on to consumers in the form of a modest increase in food prices.

But there will be no massive wave of starvation in the U.S.

Something similar applies to the jobs in other industries that currently have high levels of involvement by illegal aliens. If the supply-and-demand situations of those industries were readjusted then Americans would be attracted to jobs in them as well, and the work would still get done. People might economize in some areas (e.g., taking care of the kids yourself instead of hiring an illegal alien to serve as a nanny), but we won't see headlines like:

American Buildings Rot Due To Lack Of Construction Workers!!!

Landscaping Crisis Dwarfs Hurricane Katrina!!!

Absence Of Domestic Services Causes American Family To Fall Apart!!!

People who want to maintain the status quo on illegal immigration--or who want to legalize the status quo via amnesties and guest worker programs--may still argue for these on other grounds (e.g., that there is an overall positive economic impact from having millions of low-paid foreign workers in the U.S. or that it's a practical impossibility to remove them all), but whatever you want to see done about illegal immigration, you'll need to argue it on grounds other than the "Jobs Americans won't do" notion.

That one's a non-starter, Mr. President.

***

P.S. BTW, Mr. President, do you realize how arrogant and insulting you are being when you use the "Jobs Americans won't do" argument?

This argument can be parsed one of two ways: (1) "Such jobs are beneath us as Americans, so we need to import foreigners to do these lowly tasks for us" or (2) "I preside over a nation of such hopelessly spoiled brats that we need to just cave in to their juvenile refusal to do such jobs."

The first is arrogant and insulting to people from other countries. The second is arrogant and insulting to Americans.

Since it can be parsed both ways, the argument is arrogant and insulting no matter what your nationality.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: aliens; aztlan; borders; bush; business; economy; election; illegal; immigrant; immigration; justice; labor; law; mexican; mexico; politics; president; reconquista; southwest; sovreignity; vote
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Good arguments. It's a shame nobody's listening in D.C.
1 posted on 04/10/2006 6:45:10 PM PDT by B-Chan
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To: B-Chan

Cut off welfare after six months and see how fast those paying jobs are taken by americans.


2 posted on 04/10/2006 6:48:31 PM PDT by blackdiamondracer
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To: blackdiamondracer
Cut off welfare after six months and see how fast those paying jobs are taken by americans.

BINGO!!!!

3 posted on 04/10/2006 6:49:28 PM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: blackdiamondracer

Can we secure our borders? Si se puede!!


4 posted on 04/10/2006 6:50:14 PM PDT by csmusaret (Urban Sprawl is an oxymoron)
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To: B-Chan

Illegal immigrants do take jobs Americans don't want. Prostitute. Sweat shop worker. Labor for less than the going rate. No benefits, no taxes withheld. It would be more efficient to put the employers behind bars than to try to round up all the illegals.


5 posted on 04/10/2006 6:51:58 PM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: B-Chan

Ya know, my mother for years paid $60.00 to an illegal alien from Mexico to come and clean her house. She paid her in cash and the people who have house cleaning businesses who are legal Americans lose out on business. Not saying my mom was wrong cause I loved her housekeeper Maria, but this proves the point that Mexicans aren't taking jobs that Americans won't do,it is that Mexicans take less pay that legal American's can do.

It is time to seal the borders. America would be so much stronger if we would keep our borders closed to illegals!


6 posted on 04/10/2006 6:52:06 PM PDT by Halls (One Proud Texas Momma!!)
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To: B-Chan
With 5% unemployment as the Economic standard for "full employment" and the US Unemployment rate at 4.7% where do the replacement workers for the Illegals come from? Remember, that 5% includes the unemployable (handicaps, elderly and infirm) as well as the marginally employable (personality defects, drug abusers, the lazy, the criminal etc).

So just strictly on ECONOMICS, not who is right or who is wrong, where do we get the replacement workers to fill the Illegals jobs after they are deported?
7 posted on 04/10/2006 6:52:19 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: blackdiamondracer

The illegals are on welfare the bill that Senate passes should take away ALL welfare from them.


8 posted on 04/10/2006 6:53:10 PM PDT by stopem (Allow me to make this simple NO AMNESTY !! Secure the border with armed guards.)
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To: B-Chan
BTW, Mr. President, do you realize how arrogant and insulting you are being when you use the "Jobs Americans won't do" argument?

A. He has no clue - this is obvious B. He just doesn't care C. Both A & B

9 posted on 04/10/2006 6:53:14 PM PDT by WhiteGuy ("Every Generation needs a new revolution" - Jefferson)
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To: B-Chan

Another line that needs to stop, "we can't just deport all of the illegals, there are too many of them".

Bullshirt. Lets expand that line:

We can't arrest all the pot smokers, there are too many of them.

We can't arrest all the rapists, there are too many of them.

We can't arrest all the speeders, there are too many of them.

We can't arrest all the crack sellers, there are too many of them.

We can't arrest all the tax cheaters, there are too many of them.

I think you get my point.


10 posted on 04/10/2006 6:53:27 PM PDT by hophead ("Enjoy Every Sandwich")
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To: B-Chan

Maybe it's time for us to play the race card?

"Illgal aliens are taking away the jobs blacks used to do."

Gads, that's racist. I sound like a frigging democrat....


11 posted on 04/10/2006 6:54:25 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: blackdiamondracer; dfwgator

"Cut off welfare after six months and see how fast those paying jobs are taken by americans"


Umm I see. Wishful thinking and fantasy and yet another Immigration thread given to the same old slef validating ranting instead of a SERIOUS discussion based on the Economics of the issue.

Good luck getting that thru either the local, the State or the Federal Govt.


12 posted on 04/10/2006 6:54:55 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: Halls

"Ya know, my mother for years paid $60.00 to an illegal alien from Mexico to come and clean her house."

As I am hearing lately, I bet Maria paid her taxes on that and the other money she made, right? Right? Yea right!


13 posted on 04/10/2006 6:55:19 PM PDT by hophead ("Enjoy Every Sandwich")
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To: B-Chan

I say we all go to Yuma and take McLame up on his offer for $50 an hour to pick lettuce!

I have worked construction in Tucson, Phoenix, Yuma, Bullhead City and Laughlin Nevada.. It's hot but I can do it, I was run out because of the illegals.


14 posted on 04/10/2006 6:56:30 PM PDT by The Mayor ( We are moving in on Albany! http://www.newyorkcoalition.org)
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To: MNJohnnie

Don't you know silly? All of those good hard-working Americans who just gave up looking for work in this depressed Bush economy are just waiting to bust out of the gates to go to work under a Democrat Administration.

This is the worst Economy since Herbert Hoover, dammit! Didn't you listen to a thing John Kerry said last year?


15 posted on 04/10/2006 7:00:16 PM PDT by digger48
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To: Halls

$60 for how many hours of work?


16 posted on 04/10/2006 7:00:33 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: hophead
I think you get my point.

Yep. The majority of murderers, thieves, pot smokers, speeders, rapists, crack sellers and tax thieves are never caught.

There are too many of them.

17 posted on 04/10/2006 7:00:37 PM PDT by sinkspur (Things are about to happen that will answer all your questions and solve all your problems.)
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To: sinkspur

"Yep. The majority of murderers, thieves, pot smokers, speeders, rapists, crack sellers and tax thieves are never caught.

There are too many of them."

You get caught doing any one of those things and see where you end up! Thats my point.


18 posted on 04/10/2006 7:02:21 PM PDT by hophead ("Enjoy Every Sandwich")
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To: B-Chan

Since Hawaii is pretty hard for Mexicans to sneak into, I wonder how it is they manage to harvest fruit and how any hotels and restaurants there can possibly survive.


19 posted on 04/10/2006 7:02:48 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (they love you in Mexico until you pay in pesos.)
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To: blackdiamondracer

Remember the old song from West Side Story?

I want to be in A-me-ri-ca
OK by me in A-me-ri-ca
Everything free in A-me-ri-ca
Color TV in A-me-ri-ca!


20 posted on 04/10/2006 7:03:04 PM PDT by Palladin ("Governor Lynn Swann."...it has a nice ring to it!)
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To: B-Chan; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...


That Dog Don't Hunt Ping!

21 posted on 04/10/2006 7:04:10 PM PDT by HiJinx (~ www.proudpatriots.org ~ Serving Those Who Serve Us ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~)
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To: B-Chan

I therefore propose that we, as a nation, retire the "Illegal aliens take jobs Americans won't do/don't want" argument.

This is patent nonsense.

Anybody using this argument either has no grasp of economics or is being disingenuous due to the presence of an ulterior motive. (Them's yer two choices, so take yer pick, Mr. Bush.)



Careful there partner, too many folk 'round these parts don't take kindly to that kind of common sense!


22 posted on 04/10/2006 7:06:38 PM PDT by trubluolyguy (I love coffee....I love it GOOD!)
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To: null and void

The truth hurts. Put them on the public teat, get them happily nestled in the ranks of Democrat voters and make room for the Moooslims to become the next civil rights abusee.

is there some type of Laffer Curve to measure just how much crap the taxpayer will take before he finally say's enough is enough with regards to the loss of our identity?


23 posted on 04/10/2006 7:07:13 PM PDT by digger48
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To: B-Chan

I wrote this letter to my three members of Congress today:

Dear Mr. Renzi, Senator McCain and Senator Kyl -- I'm sorry; I am pissed. I am incensed. I am nauseated at what I have witnessed today. These "sea of humanity" demonstrations by illegals, and especially the speeches by leaders who are certifiably communist; the overnight changeover from Mexican to American flags (where did all those flags come from; who bought them?). It is such a sham. And to have people who are breaking the law with every step they take in this land lecturing us about injustice. I tell you, I am nauseated by it.
I am a democrat, but haven't voted for a democrat for any national office for a long time. That party no longer cares about our country. They are not patriotic, whatsoever.
Please help me out here, help me and my wife to cope with what we are witnessing. Where is the conservative backbone in Congress?
HERE IS MY SOLUTION -- it is radical, but fair and comprehensive: Build a BIG steel wall, like Israel's. Build it a mile inside our border so the Mexican army cannot sidle up alongside or sabotage it or undermine it; make the mile between the wall and the mexican border a no-go zone. Build it double, with 100 yards of minefield in between. Build the inner wall of standard chainlink fence, as it need not be so formidable as the wall facing mexico.
Invite illegals already in America to come down, by the tens of thousands, to work on the wall, a month at a time, decent wages. Document them, then and there. Anyone who works on the wall a total of 6 months, whether off-and-on, or straight through, gets to come through INS legally, go straight to the head of the line, and bring spouse and children with them. They get to be citizens of the USA, on a special case basis.
Radical? Yes. But, if we don't have a border that means something (like every other country in the world), then we don't have a country. Please do something, quickly. The initiative has been stolen already. We need it back. We want our country back.
Your constituent,


24 posted on 04/10/2006 7:07:36 PM PDT by Migraine (...diversity is great (until it happens to you)...)
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To: B-Chan

Another stupid argument that needs to be canned is the idiotic, "we're a nation of immigrants." In fact, the vast majority of the CITIZENS living the United States were BORN HERE! Very, very few are actual immigrants. So, can everyone please disabuse yourself of this mistaken idea and stop using this worthless argument? (Yes, that means you, Mr. President.)


25 posted on 04/10/2006 7:08:18 PM PDT by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: hophead
I get your point. The government is telling us if enough people break into their neighbor's houses, it can become so impractical to arrest, prosecute, and imprison them.

Why can't we all join in on this lawlessness? Chaos and anarchy does benefit some people, why not be the beneficiary?

It is better to allow lawlessness to continue. Now don't judge me. Think before you act. You don't want some proto-police state going around and prosecuting crimes/ruling our lives now do you. I didn't think so.

27 posted on 04/10/2006 7:08:59 PM PDT by Robertsll
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To: digger48
Dunno. I'm pretty near my tipping point.
28 posted on 04/10/2006 7:09:00 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: B-Chan
The PEW Hispanic center has determined that only "3%" of illegals work in agriculture, the vast majority are in the service and construction jobs.
29 posted on 04/10/2006 7:11:05 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
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To: Migraine

Hmmmmmmm. Interesting.

But it does sort of remind me of a Hogan's Heroes episode, where they were conscripted to build a bridge. Hogan made some aside comment to the effect that it would be the first bridge with a built in bomb...


30 posted on 04/10/2006 7:12:28 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: MNJohnnie
Many people in the 20s and 30s don't file for unemployment. If they are looking for a job, they check the classifieds, they don't walk into an unemployment office.
31 posted on 04/10/2006 7:13:21 PM PDT by Robertsll
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To: MammalModerate

bookmark


32 posted on 04/10/2006 7:13:36 PM PDT by DocRock
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To: popdonnelly

Funny how the liberals support corporate welfare for their causes and ends.


33 posted on 04/10/2006 7:14:07 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
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To: popdonnelly

"It would be more efficient to put the employers behind bars than to try to round up all the illegals."

Why should an employer have to check on the legality of employees, when the federal government won't do it? Which one has the resources? If an illegal alien isn't hired by Employer A, won't he just go down the road to Employers B, C and D? Isn't it more efficient for the feds to stop him before he starts making the rounds?


34 posted on 04/10/2006 7:14:37 PM PDT by Tymesup
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To: B-Chan
I therefore propose that we, as a nation, retire the "Illegal aliens take jobs Americans won't do/don't want" argument.

It is, unfortunately for this article, a valid argument, especially in the case of food.

Ironically, the author steps on his own member: Anybody using this argument either has no grasp of economics or is being disingenuous due to the presence of an ulterior motive.

The economics are these: Americans might do the backbreaking agricultural jobs, but not for the wages at which illegals will do them. American farmers are operating on very thin margins and competing with foreign producers, so they've got a strong incentive to minimize their payroll costs -- hence the strong demand for illegal labor.

Farmers MIGHT automate -- but in that case, Americans still wouldn't be doing those jobs. Or the farmers might just go belly up -- again no agricultural jobs.

Sorry, the article dies on its own poor assumptions.

35 posted on 04/10/2006 7:14:46 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: MammalModerate
America already has a workforce standing by to work the jobs illegals do.

It's called the Unemployment Line.

Simply put, with offices all over America. During a transition period, - anyone on unemployment is eligible to be dispatched to fill a vacancy.
If they refuse..........then don't look for the UI check to be sent.

No way we need any illegals in this country!

Get rid of the lawbreakers...........NOW!
36 posted on 04/10/2006 7:15:50 PM PDT by Englishforever (No More Spanish language in America!)
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To: MNJohnnie
Remember, that 5% includes the unemployable (handicaps, elderly and infirm) as well as the marginally employable (personality defects, drug abusers, the lazy, the criminal etc).I believe that that number does not include several of the groups you include. If you have not held a job in the last year you are not included in the statistics as unemployed (one reason why US unemployment stats are lower than Europe, we stop counting people as unemployed sooner). To a large extent the jobs will simply be eliminated (why hire 40 men to pick lettuce when you can buy a machine that with a single operator can pick just as much lettuce?) This mechanization was severely retarded in the southwest because of the large supply of illegal aliens.
37 posted on 04/10/2006 7:16:08 PM PDT by Fraxinus
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To: hophead
Another line that needs to stop, "we can't just deport all of the illegals, there are too many of them".

Looked to me like the Dallas Area Rapid Transit System (DART) was well able to handle shuttling 100's of thousands of people to and from that gathering on Sunday.

It's just a matter of where the bus stops...

38 posted on 04/10/2006 7:16:18 PM PDT by Vortex (Garbage in, Garbage Out)
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To: B-Chan

The more pressure we keep on Mexico, immigration-wise, the more reformers
inside of Mexico can be emboldened and empowered to scale back monopolists'
abuses down there which keep our own country flooded with economic refugees.
Here's an interesting new thread on new legal reform progress that finally
emerged in Mexico I think as a result of immigration reform's failure:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1611677/posts

We can make a difference for our sake, and their's as well. Isn't it the
neighborly thing to do?


39 posted on 04/10/2006 7:16:41 PM PDT by Shuttle Shucker
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To: r9etb

What did they do in the south after slavery was abolished? Invented machines that more efficiently processed cotton than humans could.


40 posted on 04/10/2006 7:16:51 PM PDT by dfwgator (Florida Gators - 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Champions)
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To: MNJohnnie
"Remember, that 5% includes the unemployable (handicaps, elderly and infirm) as well as the marginally employable (personality defects, drug abusers, the lazy, the criminal etc)."

According to the BLS, that 5% does not inclued handicaps and infirm, those incarcerated, nor does it include those voluntarily unemployed (housewives, retirees, et c.,. Explanations of the various measures of unemployment can be found at the BLS website.

The actual number of adults over the age of 16 not currently employed in America is 81.1 million (that number does include the infirm, the incarcerated, skid-row junkies, the disabled, home-makers, retirees).

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1612657/posts

41 posted on 04/10/2006 7:17:08 PM PDT by CowboyJay (Rough Riders! Tancredo '08)
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To: MNJohnnie

"So just strictly on ECONOMICS, not who is right or who is wrong, where do we get the replacement workers to fill the Illegals jobs after they are deported?"

Maybe we'll find that some of these jobs aren't needed. Maybe we'll find that the shortage of workers will create the incentive to find a better way to do some things. Maybe we'll find that increasing the number of legal immigrants is a good idea. Maybe the birth rate will increase because of the better opportunities available.


42 posted on 04/10/2006 7:18:03 PM PDT by Tymesup
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To: digger48
Simple Economics Lesson since this thread was supposedly made on Economics grounds.

If you decrease the supply of something (i.e Labor) the cost of it goes UP. Ok fine, everyone wants to make more right?

Ok, so the cost of goods is based on the cost of inputs (raw materials, equipment, labor, govt regulation and taxes etc).

So, if the cost of labor goes up, the cost to buy the product of that labor also has to go up so the price to the consumer rises.

NOW, the argument waging back and forth is the cost of Illegal Aliens to the Public Sector vrs the gain to the economy from an expanded labor and consumer base. Illegals buy and sell thus generating economic activity which is then taxed. Do Illegals consume more then they produce?

Maybe, maybe not. It is a completely unquantifiable factor. The Strict Enforcement people set the costs high and the benefits low. They are guessing. The Guest Worker advocates do the exact opposite guessing.

The reasonable solution, which NO one in Washington will grasp, is that this should be done in bites. For once lets try REALLY enforcing our laws. Let's build the wall. Let's punish the criminal employers of Illegals. Let's get serious about the Border Patrol and use our technology to make it as leak proof as possible. Israel does it against Terrorism, there is NO reason the USA cannot do it against Illegals.

IF we end up seeing this has a negative effect on our Economy, THEN we can talk Guest Worker.

But both sides have GOT to stop kidding themselves that everything is wonderful about their ideas and everything is evil about the other sides. There are costs and benefits involved here on both sides here. Anyone who tells you different is advocating something, NOT seriously considering the issue.
43 posted on 04/10/2006 7:18:16 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: null and void

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1612798/posts#6
"Are Undocumented Immigrants Taking Jobs from Blacks?"
Philadelphia Tribune beat you to it. Not by much, though ;)


44 posted on 04/10/2006 7:21:46 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: CowboyJay

Sorry Jay, you are "My ideas are perfect everyone else is wrong" Freeper on this one. Your arguement is based on assumptions you accept. Fine, that doesn't make them facts, they are simply one side's "data". Good for you that you believe them.

Too bad they are far too one sided to be considered serious scholarship.


45 posted on 04/10/2006 7:22:04 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (In the end it does not matter if you win. All men die. What matters is how you lived. No surrender)
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To: B-Chan

How is this for an argument?

Everybody knows it, but somehow we never see it on TV or in print.

Liberals want to legitimize immigrants of any stripe because they see them as potential votes.

Poor people (immigrants usually qualify as poor) can't afford things because they have no money and so they vote for politicians who promise them free stuff.

Illegal immigrants represent a great voting block prize for socialists, communists, fascists, and big government types because liberals can keep them poor and forever on the Democrat plantation.

Democrats resist tooth and nail any notion that voters should be able to identify themselves legally when voting , and that the voters should be proficient in the English language.

Why don't we wear out that argument for a while?


46 posted on 04/10/2006 7:23:00 PM PDT by Radix (Stop domestic violence. Beat abroad!)
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To: ARealMothersSonForever

I'll be damned!


47 posted on 04/10/2006 7:23:32 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: MNJohnnie

"Let's punish the criminal employers of Illegals."

It is more efficient to have the feds stop the illegal at the border than to ask every employer to stop every illegal at the workplace.


48 posted on 04/10/2006 7:23:57 PM PDT by Tymesup
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To: MNJohnnie
It is called "LEGAL" immigration, versus, "ILLEGAL" immigration, what part of "ILLEGAL" do you not understand?

Illegal immigration is a set aside and affirmative action for illegal Mexicans to flood our country. There are millions upon millions of Europeans, Blacks and Asians who would come here legally, but they have no say in the matter, they will be punished because of the illegal Mexican border jumpers getting preference.

Why, because illegal Mexicans are in your face and the Quislings in our government are selling out America hoping for a Hispanic block vote payoff down the road.

49 posted on 04/10/2006 7:24:14 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
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To: Robertsll
No not at all. But I live in the Peoples Republic of Maryland where most major police forces refuse to enforce the EXISTING laws regarding illegal aliens. The three major population areas here are "safe havens" for illegals. The county executives have forbidden the police department to even ask those arrested for another crime what their immigration status is. Our legislators want to give illegals drivers licenses, in-state tuition rates and free help buying a house. I DON'T GET FREE HELP TO DO ANYTHING. We will see if my 17 yo son gets any help from this state when he wants to go to a state college in two years, that is if his seat is not filled with an illegal alien getting in-state tuition rates and state aid in paying THAT!!! That is my problem with all of this. Our elected officials here are representing the best interests of ILLEGAL ALIENS and not legal residents of this state.
50 posted on 04/10/2006 7:24:31 PM PDT by hophead ("Enjoy Every Sandwich")
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