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CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES: THE TYRANNY OF COMPULSORY SCHOOLING
Spinning Globe ^ | John Gatto Taylor

Posted on 07/09/2006 4:52:38 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued

Let me speak to you about dumbness because that is what schools teach best. Old-fashioned dumbness used to be simple ignorance: you didn't know something, but there were ways to find out if you wanted to. Government-controlled schooling didn't eliminate dumbness - in fact, we now know that people read more fluently before we had forced schooling - but dumbness was transformed.

Now dumb people aren't just ignorant; they're the victims of the non-thought of secondhand ideas. Dumb people are now well-informed about the opinions of Time magazine and CBS, The New York Times and the President; their job is to choose which pre-thought thoughts, which received opinions, they like best. The élite in this new empire of ignorance are those who know the most pre-thought thoughts.

Mass dumbness is vital to modem society. The dumb person is wonderfully flexible clay for psychological shaping by market research, government policymakers; public-opinion leaders, and any other interest group. The more pre-thought thoughts a person has memorized, the easier it is to predict what choices he or she will make. What dumb people cannot do is think for themselves or ever be alone for very long without feeling crazy. That is the whole point of national forced schooling; we aren't supposed to be able to think for ourselves because independent thinking gets in the way of "professional" think-ing, which is believed to follow rules of scientific precision.

(Excerpt) Read more at spinninglobe.net ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: backinmyday; buildabunker; delightinkids; downwithpublikskool; education; elitisthogwash; gatto; gattoisright; gladness; governmentschools; handwringingclaptrap; hysteria; overwrought; publikskoolz; sanity; separateschoolnstate; usadoesnothingright; wholesomeness; zon
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1 posted on 07/09/2006 4:52:39 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued
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To: Republicanprofessor; Tired of Taxes; DaveLoneRanger; Aquinasfan; Calpernia; little jeremiah; ...

Here is an excerpt of Gatto's which is worth memorizing"

"The new dumbness - the non thought of received ideas - is much more dangerous than simple ignorance, because it's really about thought control. In school, a washing away of the innate power of individual mind takes place, a "cleansing" so comprehensive that original thinking becomes difficult. If you don't believe this development was part of the intentional design of schooling, you should read William Torrey Harris's The Philosophy of Education. Harris was the U.S. Commissioner of Education at the turn of the century and the man most influential in standardizing our schools. Listen to the man.

"Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred," writes Harris, "are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom." This is not all accident, Harris explains, but the "result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual." Scientific education subsumes the individual until his or her behavior becomes robotic. Those are the thoughts of the most influential U.S. Commissioner of Education we've had so far.

The great theological scholar Dietrich Bonhoeffer raised this issue of the new dumbness in his brilliant analysis of Nazism, in which he sought to comprehend how the best-schooled nation in the world, Germany, could fall under its sway. He concluded that Nazism could be understood only as the psychological product of good schooling. The sheer weight of received ideas, pre-thought thoughts, was so overwhelming that individuals gave up trying to assess things for themselves. Why struggle- to invent a map of the world or of the human conscience when schools and media offer thousands of ready-made maps, pre-thought thoughts?"


2 posted on 07/09/2006 4:55:22 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
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To: Clintonfatigued

The American educational system is great at teaching kids how to answer questions. It's terrible at teaching kids how to ask questions....


3 posted on 07/09/2006 4:56:15 PM PDT by Skip Ripley
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To: Clintonfatigued

The American educational system is great at teaching kids how to answer questions. It's terrible at teaching kids how to ask questions....


4 posted on 07/09/2006 4:56:16 PM PDT by Skip Ripley
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To: Skip Ripley

The IRS is claiming that I am not a head of household, and claim that I have to show documents to prove that the children live with me.

I asked what documents would be acceptable. They suggested that I present the documents from the local schools to which I send my children.

I home school.

Well, then we will accept documents from the state agency to which you answer for the education of your children.

I don't answer to the State for my children. I home school.

Well, do you take them to the doctor?

Since I stopped sending them to the local contagion exchange (aka publick Screwls) they stopped getting sick. We haven't taken them to the doctor for two years.

I suppose I could show up in court with the children. They will not accept an affidavit from my ex-wife, because she is related to the children. Odd, isn't it?


5 posted on 07/09/2006 5:06:44 PM PDT by donmeaker (If the sky don't say "Surrender Dorothy" then my ex wife is out of town.)
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To: donmeaker; Left2Right

"Since I stopped sending them to the local contagion exchange (aka publick Screwls) they stopped getting sick."

Sometimes, stress can make a person more easily succumb to illness. And the public schools are boring and stressful places.


6 posted on 07/09/2006 5:16:44 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
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To: Clintonfatigued

Who put all the screwy keywords up? I like Gatto's work for the most part.


7 posted on 07/09/2006 5:38:00 PM PDT by skandalon (The leftist Holy Trinity-Me,Myself and I.)
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To: skandalon

I have no idea where all that came from.


8 posted on 07/09/2006 5:39:52 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
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To: Clintonfatigued
From the article; on comparing libraries to schools:
"That's what the questions at the end of chapters are designed to do, to bring you back to a reality in which you are subordinate. Nobody really expects you to answer those questions, not even the teacher; they work their harm solely by being there. That is their genius. Schoolbooks are a crowd-control device."
See the same thing often with the main stream media. Special Reports, when the President speaks and general "news" coverage.
 
"Only the very innocent and well-schooled see any difference between good ones and bad ones; both kinds do the same work. In that respect they are much like television programming, the function of which, as a plug in narcotic, is infinitely more powerful than any trivial differences between good programs and bad."
 See this often when participating in politics. Partisan politics; voting for the lesser of evils still always begets evil.
"Real books educate, schoolbooks school, and thus libraries and library policies are a major clue to the reform of American schooling. When you take the free will and solitude out of education it becomes schooling. You can't have it both ways."

Compared to libraries subverting collectivist indoctrination from public schooling, the Internet and especially the world wide web dwarf libraries.

9 posted on 07/09/2006 6:19:15 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Zon

Very good points.


10 posted on 07/09/2006 6:29:02 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
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To: Clintonfatigued
Government school can and DO use the threat of armed police, court, and foster care action to
FORCE their will upon parents with no other alternative. ( Real bullets in those guns on the hip.)If you do not believe this, please do a Google search on the words: Truant and Police.

If a taxpayer refuses to pay for the non-neutral political, cultural, and religious agenda of the government school, armed sheriff's will soon be at his door to sell his home and business at auction.

If a parent or taxpayer is sufficiently resistant, he risks prison or even death by bullet.

THAT is what government schools are!

Government school taxes have turned us into a nation of renters. If we do not pay our rent ( school taxes ) to the government, the government will evict us from our home or business. (Remember: Real bullets in those guns on the hip)

The following is from Gatto's essay:

" In my own life, with my own children, I'm sorry I lacked the courage to say what Hester Prynne, the wearer of the scarlet letter, said to the Puritan elders when they tried to take away her daughter. Alone and friendless, dirt poor, ringed about by enemies, she said, "Over my dead body." A few weeks ago a young woman called me from Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania to tell me the state had just insisted she stop home-schooling her little girl, Chrissie. The state was going to force her to send Chrissie to school. She said she was going to fight, first with the law, although she didn't know where the money would come from, and then by any means she had. If I had to bet on this young, single mother or the State of Pennsylvania to win, I'd bet on the lady because what l was really hearing her say was, "Over my dead body." I wish I'd been able to say that when the state came to take my own children. I didn't. But if I'm born again I promise you that's what I will say."
11 posted on 07/09/2006 7:09:17 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Clintonfatigued
It is past time that homeschoolers STOPPED defending their decision. It is time that we pointedly ask those using government schools, "Why on earth are you doing THAT to your children? What is the problem? Are you that bad off that you have no other option?"

We must pointedly state that homeschooling is the MOST natural and healthy way to raise a child to adulthood.

Will some children need to be institutionalized. Yes, of course! There will always be parents who dislike their kids, are too stupid, disorganized, dysfunctional, poor, too interested in material gain, too sick, tired, or ill-educated themselves.

These children will need institutions. We need orphanages too, but no one would suggest that it is the best way to raise a child.

By the way, I personally have never met a fat homeschooler who has been homeschooled from the beginning. Why? They aren't fat because they have the time and leisure to PLAY.
12 posted on 07/09/2006 7:14:49 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime

How was the state going to force her to send her child to school if she filed her affidavit and objectives to homeschool ?


13 posted on 07/10/2006 4:10:43 AM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: cinives
How was the state going to force her to send her child to school if she filed her affidavit and objectives to homeschool ?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Not every parent can homeschool. Please note the phrase "with no alternative" in my previous post. Government price-fixing and monopolistic practices have assured that alternatives are very scarce in many communities.

Thanks to onerous government school taxes ( approximately $11,000 per government schooled child per year)both parents are forced into the work force just to pay these taxes.

If you do NOT cooperate with the government the following WILL happen:

Government schools can and DO use the threat of armed police, court, and foster care action to
FORCE their will upon parents with no other alternative. ( Real bullets in those guns on the hip.)If you do not believe this, please do a Google search on the words: Truant and Police.

If a taxpayer refuses to pay for the non-neutral political, cultural, and religious agenda of the government school, armed sheriff's will soon be at his door to sell his home and business at auction.

If a parent or taxpayer is sufficiently resistant, he risks prison or even death by bullet.

THAT is what government schools are!

Government school taxes have turned us into a nation of renters. If we do not pay our rent ( school taxes ) to the government, the government will evict us from our home or business. (Remember: Real bullets in those guns on the hip)
14 posted on 07/10/2006 5:30:34 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime

While I agree completely that we only rent our homes from the government re school taxes, I totally disagree with the idea that "not everyone can homeschool".

I am a single working parent who homeschools in Pennsylvania - believe me, it can be done by anyone. All it takes is willpower and the willingness to make whatever changes are necessary in your life-lifestyle.

If homeschooling is not desired, there are plenty of church schools, even in Philadelphia, that still charge less than $2500 a year to educate your kid in elementary school.


15 posted on 07/10/2006 5:45:30 AM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: skandalon; Clintonfatigued
Who put all the screwy keywords up? I like Gatto's work for the most part.

We have enemies on Free Republic, too.

16 posted on 07/10/2006 6:10:50 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: donmeaker
Since I stopped sending them to the local contagion exchange (aka publick Screwls) they stopped getting sick. We haven't taken them to the doctor for two years.

Careful. I was accused by a doctor (in front of my children) for "never taking them to see a doctor" because I "only take them when they're sick." Which wasn't even true! I would schedule a well-child visit, but for two or three years in a row, coincidentally the kids would be sick at the same time as their visit. Doctors seem to be quick with their suspicions when a parent homeschools.

17 posted on 07/10/2006 6:15:49 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: agrace; bboop; blu; cgk; Conservativehomeschoolmama; cyborg; cyclotic; dawn53; Diva Betsy Ross; ...
Homeschool Ping!

If you want on/off this ping list, please let me know.

Are you a homeschooler looking for advice from other homeschoolers? Visit our Free Republic Homeschoolers' Forum 2006-2007.

18 posted on 07/10/2006 6:18:10 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: donmeaker

"The IRS is claiming that I am not a head of household, and claim that I have to show documents to prove that the children live with me."
I can top that. Medicare insists my husband of 43 years is a female. They have sent three replacement cards after our local Social Security office has attempted to correct this ridiculous error. Yes, all three have come back with my husband's name and "Female" stamped on them. Some claims from his lab work from last September have not been paid to the doctor because some computer in the bowels of the SS office noticed that he is not a female, so the mess just escalates.
And this is the government that is supposed to be in charge of Hellery Care? You'd better get your wills drawn up.


19 posted on 07/10/2006 6:20:07 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: Clintonfatigued
Dumb people are now well-informed about the opinions of Time magazine and CBS, The New York Times and the President; their job is to choose which pre-thought thoughts, which received opinions, they like best. The élite in this new empire of ignorance are those who know the most pre-thought thoughts.

JTG, profoundly insightful, as always. I could highlight the whole article.

The new dumbness is particularly deadly to middle and upper-middle-class people, who have already been made shallow by the multiple requirements to conform. Too many people, uneasily convinced that they must know something because of a degree, diploma, or license, remain so convinced until a brutal divorce, alienation from their children, loss of employment, or periodic fits of meaninglessness manage to tip the precarious mental balance of their incomplete humanity, their stillborn adult lives.

It took me about ten years to fully shake off the effects of schooling, but it was well worth the effort.

As JTG said, they'll get my kids over my dead body.

20 posted on 07/10/2006 6:29:44 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: donmeaker
The IRS is claiming that I am not a head of household, and claim that I have to show documents to prove that the children live with me.

I asked what documents would be acceptable. They suggested that I present the documents from the local schools to which I send my children.

< speechless>

21 posted on 07/10/2006 6:31:40 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Zon
See the same thing often with the main stream media. Special Reports, when the President speaks and general "news" coverage.

Great point. Don't judge the speech you just heard for yourself. We'll tell you what the person just said, what they meant, and what the broader implications are.

22 posted on 07/10/2006 6:34:27 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: wintertime
They aren't fat because they have the time and leisure to PLAY.

I never thought about that. Great point.

23 posted on 07/10/2006 6:36:44 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Tired of Taxes
We have enemies on Free Republic, too.

Apparently. Could that person be a public school graduate? Notice the lack of logic.

And when was the "add a keyword" feature added?

24 posted on 07/10/2006 6:40:25 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Tired of Taxes

I don't believe in "Well child visits" for my six and eight year olds anyway.


25 posted on 07/10/2006 6:41:56 AM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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To: Tired of Taxes
Doctors seem to be quick with their suspicions when a parent homeschools.

My wife was gently raked over the coals when we began homeschooling. The questions the doctor asked were vaguely antagonistic. But if I was there I would have told him to screw. From my wife's accounts, he seemed to have that "I'm a doctor so you should take my advice" attitude.

Anyway, six years later he's asking different questions. I think he's noticing the difference between our kids and his grandkids.

Funny thing is, I bet his grandkids will go on to be very "successful" adults, at least as measured by contemporary standards. But that won't include the cost of self-alienation, and all the psychic agony that comes with it.

Personally, I was fortunate in that I had my mid-life crisis at age 22. I had graduated from engineering college with a high-paying job offer and a beautiful girlfriend. Yet I was deeply depressed. I could relate to that old Talking Heads song, "this is not my beautiful wife/ this is not my beautiful house." I had been beoming more confused and depressed as the college years wore on.

Upon graduation, I got out of engineering (which I had no interest in; I was only in it for the money) and my girlfriend dumped me (a blessing, since she was an atheist). I spent the next ten years sorting stuff out. But I am much happier now for the experience. I don't laugh at mid-life crises at all. I remember the pain far too well. I'm fortunate that I got mine out of the way early on. Most people seem to suppress the pain for decades.

26 posted on 07/10/2006 6:51:26 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Clintonfatigued
I like John Gatto Taylor. It does seem like the really good school teachers I had were rebelling against the school system. I can read any thing I want because of a third grade teacher who taught Latin root words in the slow reading class of all places. In retrospect she was probably bucking the system.
27 posted on 07/10/2006 7:11:31 AM PDT by after dark (I love hateful people. They help me unload karmic debt.)
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To: Aquinasfan

Don't judge the speech you just heard for yourself. We'll tell you what the person just said, what they meant, and what the broader implications are.

Yes. Also, most general news stories and controversies too. Controversies the news media helped contrive. Like man causes global warming. And stories such as, a memo quoting democrats fixing the bench is trivial and little reported while questioning/suggesting that the memo was illegally obtained is made the important story.

28 posted on 07/10/2006 8:04:10 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: wintertime
By the way, I personally have never met a fat homeschooler who has been homeschooled from the beginning. Why? They aren't fat because they have the time and leisure to PLAY.

Have you ever seen a chubby homeschooler? ;-) I have one. He's in great health, though. Just got back from Boy Scout camp.

29 posted on 07/10/2006 9:24:32 AM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: Tired of Taxes

"We have enemies on Free Republic, roo."

They're affectionately known as trolls.


30 posted on 07/10/2006 9:27:35 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
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To: Aquinasfan

What I found particularly facinating is the claim that the Public Schools in Prussia (later to become Germany) contributed to the rise in Naziism and both World Wars.

THAT'S something you won't find in the history books.


31 posted on 07/10/2006 9:29:58 AM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Illegal aliens commit crimes that Americans won't commit)
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To: wintertime
It is past time that homeschoolers STOPPED defending their decision. It is time that we pointedly ask those using government schools, "Why on earth are you doing THAT to your children? What is the problem? Are you that bad off that you have no other option?"

I like the way you think. It's difficult to overcome the mindset that the current public school system is the way it should be because we were all raised with it and it was considered normal. Public school parents are very defensive when confronted by homeschoolers but when they confront homeschoolers, they can be very obnoxious. They don't seem to think twice about questioning us but react quite strongly when presented with the same attitude they use on others.

32 posted on 07/10/2006 10:02:54 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

Last time I spoke to my sister-in-law she was talking about the k-12 program and asking why my family didn't qualify to sign up for it for "free". I told her in order to qualify my children would have to be in the public school system for one year. She could not understand why I would not put my children into public school for "just one year".


33 posted on 07/10/2006 10:15:33 AM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: Zon
Yes. Also, most general news stories and controversies too. Controversies the news media helped contrive. Like man causes global warming. And stories such as, a memo quoting democrats fixing the bench is trivial and little reported while questioning/suggesting that the memo was illegally obtained is made the important story.

Maddening, especially since it's so effective.

34 posted on 07/10/2006 10:21:22 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Clintonfatigued
What I found particularly facinating is the claim that the Public Schools in Prussia (later to become Germany) contributed to the rise in Naziism and both World Wars. THAT'S something you won't find in the history books.

It sent a chill down my spine when I read it in his book, The Underground History of American Education. The link goes to the book which can be read in its entirety for free. The guy puts his money where his mouth is.

This is the first time I've heard him mention his children. It must break his heart that he sent them to public school. I also didn't know that his wife ran for school committee (!). What an amazing story! I wish he had included the details in his book where he recounts his run-ins with the malignant school bureaucracy.

I ran for school committee myself when I was in my late '20s, in retaliation for my "education." It was torturous, but well worth the effort. One of my favorite memories was when I recounted the history of compulsory schooling laws in Massachusetts when a hostile audience member asked if I knew how the compulsory attendance laws originated. I don't know whether he knew the answer to his own question, but I bet he regretted asking it because I filibustered him, holding the grumpy school-philes hostage for 15 minutes. 8-)

A week later a woman who was in the audience wrote a letter to the editor saying how fascinated she was with the facts that I presented. You never know how something like that can change a person's life.

It's all about hearts and minds.

35 posted on 07/10/2006 10:41:31 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Aquinasfan
JGTs comparison of grade school and library learning was especially insightful. The Internet and WWW especially amplify the individualist education/learning that occurs with library use. Since most people don't know the difference the question is how to lead them -- they're followers of various collectivist indoctrinations -- to become independent learners--self-leaders. Lead them to think critically, yet not what to think. FR is a great resource yet falls short of being unbiased and committed to honesty that wins in the end -- always has, always will. 

The establishment is born of authorities de-individualizing people into collectives. Almost everything is tainted by it. It must be deconstructed simultaneous to the building of a civilization predicated on individualist critical thinking. We already know that free-market competition is the most efficient method of exchange and uplifting to individuals and society. Human efforts in science and business have dwarfed all other methods for bringing individuals and societies evermore prosperity and health.

  1. Individual thinker, self-leader
  2. Business
  3. Science
  4. Art idealizes the above

An individualist business/science/art civilization will replace (not reform) a political/religious/philosophy anti-civilization.

36 posted on 07/10/2006 11:02:34 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: netmilsmom; Aquinasfan

Here's the kicker: She was accusing me of medical neglect. Yet, she and the other doctors in that office consistently made mistakes. We've never been able to find a good pediatrician. I miss the days when there was one family doctor who did it all.

I had an even worse problem with the dentist's office. They were criticizing me for "only bringing them once a year." That I'm supposed to bring them in twice a year. Please note, not one of my children has ever had a cavity, and my oldest is 10. They also kept trying to bully me into x-rays by saying they needed them once a year. I had to sign forms refusing the x-rays. Now they claim we owe them a load of money. We did some checking, and it appears they've charged our insurance company for things like braces... for our 5 year old. Note: None of our children have braces.

We always had trouble finding a good dentist, too.


37 posted on 07/10/2006 11:21:25 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: Tired of Taxes
they've charged our insurance company for things like braces... for our 5 year old. Note: None of our children have braces.

That's why I tell my kids, "it's more important to be good than to be smart."

38 posted on 07/10/2006 11:24:35 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: HungarianGypsy
Have you ever seen a chubby homeschooler? ;-) I have one. He's in great health, though. Just got back from Boy Scout camp.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As I said, I ***personally***haven't met a fat homeschooler who has been homeschooled from the beginning. I am sure they exist.

Was your son homeschooled from the beginning?

Also,,,Thankfully he is homeschooled. Chubby is a far easier condition to manage than obese, and if he had gone to school he would not be as healthy as he is today.
39 posted on 07/10/2006 12:51:28 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Clintonfatigued
Alot of balls to post this. GATTO IS RIGHT!

Answer this question Publik Skool defenders: why is it that you don't trust the government to buy your groceries, but you trust them to educate your children?

But of course, bubble headed suburban mom will say "the publik skools in my area are Graaaate! Yer an elitist (what a sh-tkicker says when they are losing an argument) snob!"

40 posted on 07/10/2006 12:55:24 PM PDT by Clemenza (I don't want the world, I just want YOUR half!)
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To: Clintonfatigued

BTW: The masses ARE revolting. They truly are! Public school education and junk food mass culture are to blame.


41 posted on 07/10/2006 12:57:18 PM PDT by Clemenza (I don't want the world, I just want YOUR half!)
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To: Tired of Taxes

Now they claim we owe them a load of money. We did some checking, and it appears they've charged our insurance company for things like braces... for our 5 year old. Note: None of our children have braces.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

This is GROSSLY unethical!

I recommend sending a note to the Dental Board in your state and reporting it to State Dental Association.

You State Dental Association can be located by going to the American Dental Association web site. Phone them. Write them a complaint, and ask them for the number and address of the State Dental Board.

The State Dental Association ( an affiliate of the Amer.Dental Assoc.) is private association from dentists.

The State Dental Board is a state agency that issues licenses.


42 posted on 07/10/2006 12:58:14 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Tired of Taxes

WHOA!


43 posted on 07/10/2006 1:15:15 PM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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To: wintertime

My six year old is chubby BECAUSE she did a half year in Kindergarten. Snacks and sugar!!!!!!!
GRRRRRR.

Now we have taken off lots of that weight! Thank God I can keep her home and feed her right.


44 posted on 07/10/2006 1:20:28 PM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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To: wintertime

Yes, my son was homeschooled from the beginning. It's most likely a genetic thing. He has uncles and aunts who have always been chubby and his dad was chubby at his age, but outgrew it when he was 13 (which my son is starting to). It really does frustrate him that he exercises and eats healthy, but is still chubby. He told me that he was at Scout camp and one of his troop called him fat. Another member said, "No. He's chubby. I know a kid at school who is fat and he's not even close."


45 posted on 07/10/2006 1:20:48 PM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: wintertime

I've met some fat homeschooled kids (one family), but then looking at the size of the parents and knowing how they ate, well, there's only so much good that playing can do. Other than them, I agree.


46 posted on 07/10/2006 1:29:08 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: HungarianGypsy

It's most likely a genetic thing.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He would have been in terrible shape if he had gone to school.

Thankfully, you have seen that he has had plenty of exercise and healthy food. He is much better off at home.


47 posted on 07/10/2006 2:47:43 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Aquinasfan
That's why I tell my kids, "it's more important to be good than to be smart."

I agree. The kind of smarts I think it's important to attain would be: recognizing when someone is trying to take advantage of you. For example: a dentist padding the bill. Sure wish I'd noticed that sooner. :-)

48 posted on 07/10/2006 9:09:45 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: wintertime

Good advice! Thanks. We're still checking all the bills. Thankfully, our new dentist was the one who brought the suspicious charges to our attention.


49 posted on 07/10/2006 9:12:22 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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To: HungarianGypsy

Our youngest (age 5) is very "bulky", and doctors and other people assume I'm feeding him lots of sweets. But my kids rarely eat sweets. He does favor carbs like pasta and pizza, but he doesn't eat those things often enough that they'd contribute very much to his weight.

We see him as "fully packed" - he's very muscular and strong. My husband nicknamed him "Chunk", and his cousins call him "Bubba". I have to constantly reprimand him for tackling and hurting his older brothers, both of whom are very lean. I think he's capable of beating them up. :-0

The funny thing is, when he was a baby, he was very thin and we were very worried. We were relieved when he started bulking up.


50 posted on 07/10/2006 9:58:02 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (That's taxes, not Texas. I have no beef with TX. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation.)
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