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What Really Happened in Najaf? (WE ARE LOSING THE PROPOGANDA WAR, FOLKS)
Electronic Iraq ^ | 2/1/07 | Jeff Severns Guntzel

Posted on 02/01/2007 9:06:39 PM PST by tcrlaf

In today's Independent, Patrick Cockburn writes:

There are growing suspicions in Iraq that the official story of the battle outside Najaf between a messianic Iraqi cult and the Iraqi security forces supported by the US, in which 263 people were killed and 210 wounded, is a fabrication. The heavy casualties may be evidence of an unpremeditated massacre.

A picture is beginning to emerge of a clash between an Iraqi Shia tribe on a pilgrimage to Najaf and an Iraqi army checkpoint that led the US to intervene with devastating effect. The involvement of Ahmed al-Hassani (also known as Abu Kamar), who believed himself to be the coming Mahdi, or Messiah, appears to have been accidental.

The story emerging on independent Iraqi websites and in Arabic newspapers is entirely different from the government's account of the battle with the so-called "Soldiers of Heaven", planning a raid on Najaf to kill Shia religious leaders.

The cult denied it was involved in the fighting, saying it was a peaceful movement.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: iraq; najaf; propaganda; propoganda; taquiya; waronterror
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We are LOSING the Propoganda War, people....

Last Week's Najaf Battles are now being spun by the International Left as a HUGE massacre on the Part of US troops....

What I've Found so far:

US 'victory' against cult leader was 'massacre' http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2201103.ece

Pilgrims massacred in the 'battle' of Najaf Asia Times http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IB02Ak04.html

1 posted on 02/01/2007 9:06:43 PM PST by tcrlaf
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To: tcrlaf
I am REALLY worried about the propaganda war. I am as concerned over our ability to pull this out now as I have ever been.

If I hear one more time, in another election, that things couldn't be any worse with the Dems in charge...grrr.

So, what can we do?
2 posted on 02/01/2007 9:09:38 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: tcrlaf

A peaceful movement with shoulder fired missles?


3 posted on 02/01/2007 9:10:21 PM PST by bnelson44 (Proud parent of a tanker! (We are going to win!))
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To: tcrlaf
and as usual the left is a bunch of lying, back biting, two-bit, varmints. Check this out http://www.defenselink.mil/home/dodupdate/iraq-update/Handovers/index.html
4 posted on 02/01/2007 9:10:48 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: tcrlaf

Eh, either way some muslimes die, it's a win of sorts any way you look at it.


5 posted on 02/01/2007 9:14:00 PM PST by Constantine XI Palaeologus ("Vicisti, Galilaee")
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To: tcrlaf
Every city is a 'holy city', and all the people are on pilgrimage no matter where they are.

Every city has a shrine, and a holy mosque.

Any group of gathered people is a pilgrimage headed to a shrine.

How can we win this?

Reporting from the holy city of Chicago.

6 posted on 02/01/2007 9:14:22 PM PST by RushCrush (Do not stand in a place of danger trusting in miracles.)
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To: SandRat

You'll take notice that the "Mainstream" Media sources fail to include THIS tidbit???

Ahmed Du’aibil, Media Spokesman of the Najaf Governorate (SCIRI):

250 – 300 militants were killed in the clashes at Zarga. “16 terrorists” were detained, including two Egyptians and a Saudi.

***** "including two Egyptians and a Saudi"




As I said, it's a PROPOGANDA WAR, and we are losing it, with a leftist press that faces absolutely NO penalties for the lies that are getting good Americans killed...

Until we actually JAIL a traitor or two, we are going to continue losing, no matter how many victories we win, because everything is going to be spun as a loss...

I'd suggest starting with a Senator or two from the Dem Party...


7 posted on 02/01/2007 9:14:30 PM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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To: tcrlaf

Losing the propaganda war? We haven't even bothered engaging in that war to date. Our enemies control the field.


8 posted on 02/01/2007 9:14:48 PM PST by ellery (The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts. - Edmund Burke)
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To: tcrlaf

The White House will get around to making a statement on this in a week or two or three -- after it has becomes frontpage news for a week or more.


9 posted on 02/01/2007 9:16:02 PM PST by TomGuy
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To: tcrlaf

The main stream media needs to post more pictures of what the celebrants do during this festival. There needs to be some discrimination as to the source of the blood that is photographed.


10 posted on 02/01/2007 9:16:57 PM PST by Sundog (What are we going to do tomorrow, Brain?)
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To: tcrlaf

We should have jailed Swimmer, Ramses Cluck, Jane Fondue and J-efn-Kerry in 1971.


11 posted on 02/01/2007 9:16:58 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: tcrlaf
We do not do "Propaganda" because it is about lies. We expect our enemies to lie all the time and we expect the left wing defeatists and traitors to lie all the time. What we do is we speak the truth, we fight, and we win.

Guys you must accept the fact that in this war or any other war the enemies foreign and domestic will lie all the time so please stop knee jerking everytime you see a lie.

12 posted on 02/01/2007 9:18:08 PM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: tcrlaf

How about we start by relentlessly calling our enemies on their propaganda and lies? It seems that we've taken the approach of not dignifying their claims with a real response, and it's harming us immensely. The bloggers' anti-propaganda debunking of the ubiquitous green helmet guy (during the recent Israeli-Hizbollah conflict) is a perfect example of what we should be doing constantly.


13 posted on 02/01/2007 9:18:24 PM PST by ellery (The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts. - Edmund Burke)
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To: Constantine XI Palaeologus

You have a point...


14 posted on 02/01/2007 9:19:30 PM PST by babygene (Never look into the laser with your last good eye...)
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To: ellery

Your defeatist attitude is giving great aid and comfort to the enemy. The enemy does not control the field we do, and we have killed over 70,000 of them so far.


15 posted on 02/01/2007 9:20:06 PM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: tcrlaf

The new york slimes is trying to portray this as the story of how much the iraqi forces actually needed american assistance instead of doing it mostly on their own.


16 posted on 02/01/2007 9:20:35 PM PST by World_Events
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To: tcrlaf
Well, at least they didn't print that our troops put panties on their heads.

" The cult denied it was involved in the fighting, saying it was a peaceful movement."

How did they peacefully shoot down our chopper during their peaceful pilgrimage? *spit*

17 posted on 02/01/2007 9:21:03 PM PST by DocRock (Nuke 'em till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark)
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To: DocRock

http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000635.html

Photographs of their peaceful Ashoura celebrations...


18 posted on 02/01/2007 9:22:04 PM PST by Sundog (What are we going to do tomorrow, Brain?)
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To: jveritas

"Lies can travel half way around the world before the truth gets its shoes on"....Mark Twain


As the poster below states, we should be ATTACKING every single lie that comes out of the mouth of a leftist....

I understand why Bush took the high road, and assumed that THE TRUTH would eventually find it's way out, but that has OBVIOUSLY not worked...

We are fighting a war that is as much drive-by sloganeering, as it is drive-by shootings...

THE TRUTH is tough to explain in an easily shouted slogan like "Illegal War For Oil", and the attention span of the average sheeple grows shorter and shorter...


19 posted on 02/01/2007 9:22:24 PM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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To: tcrlaf
The President does not have time to attack every lie that goes around, he does not have time to attack 0.0000000000000000000001% of the lies, he has a country to run and a war to win.

The masters of propaganda wars were the Nazis and the Communists, both evil regimes now belong to the garbage of history.

20 posted on 02/01/2007 9:26:26 PM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: tcrlaf

Just wait till the red cross green helmet guy turns up with his mobile mortuary.


21 posted on 02/01/2007 9:28:19 PM PST by spokeshave (The Democrat Party stands for open treason in a time of war.)
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To: jveritas

J, YOU of all people should realize how hard it is to get THE TRUTH out, above the din of Partisan lies coming from the left and thier friends in the Islamic World....

We live in a world where the average person's news comes in 5 second sound bites driving to work, in the 30 second news brief before "American Idol", and in a single paragraph on the cellphone.

We SHOULD have been countering every Liberal Lie from Day one, but we didn't, and assumed WAY too much from the intelligence of the sheeple to see above the lies.

We don't have much time left to save this thing, and if we don't start doing it NOW, we never will......

I'd hate to see the blood and efforts of my family and friends wasted....


22 posted on 02/01/2007 9:30:23 PM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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To: DocRock

Yeah, and the "peaceful" 500 AKs rifles recovered as well as the more than 400 "peaceful" combatants captured from their "peaceful" compound and fighting positions. The reason they were bombed was because local advisors called in the USAF and RAF in support of a 10 hr. long ground battle. It began with the militia's "peaceful" morning attacks from prepared positions against IA and Coalition support units.


23 posted on 02/01/2007 9:30:44 PM PST by Justa (Politically Correct is morally wrong.)
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To: tcrlaf

We need dozens and dozens more of these types of battles.


24 posted on 02/01/2007 9:30:51 PM PST by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon))
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To: tcrlaf

At least it wasn't a wedding...


25 posted on 02/01/2007 9:32:51 PM PST by SaxxonWoods (Boycott all Leftist Media, ignore them and they will go away...)
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To: jveritas

should be 70,000 X 70,000....they are barbarians,,,they will bring the world to chaos...kill them mercilessly


26 posted on 02/01/2007 9:33:53 PM PST by wildcatf4f3 (Find out what brand the Ethiopians are drinking and send a case to all my generals.)
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To: Justa

The Boston Globe will probably print some more graphic full color XXX sex pics above the fold and tell the world our troops raped these peaceful pilgrims, too.


27 posted on 02/01/2007 9:36:08 PM PST by DocRock (Nuke 'em till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark)
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To: tcrlaf

My fellow freeper our side do not have control of the media, it is like 30% to 70% Right Versus Left, Good Vs Evil when it comes to the media, but amazingly we have been winning more than they have been winning.


28 posted on 02/01/2007 9:42:41 PM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: tcrlaf
We are LOSING the Propoganda War, people

Yes, hell yes, we are loosing that part of the war. We always do it seems, at least in the 'real time'.

Whatever the outcome of this war and who really knows when it will be over, it will take 50 years later to get a full account of it.

The more I know, the more I know I don't know, and the great teachings of the one infinite wisdom to be true.
29 posted on 02/01/2007 9:48:47 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: jveritas

"but amazingly we have been winning more than they have been winning."


REALLY???

These are post from just THE LAST HOUR on a FINANCIAL board I monitor. The Leftist proganda blizzard goes on 24/7, and never stops. No Lie is left unused, no hate-filled insult left unspewed...


Bush Makes the Problem Worse and Then Admits There Is Actually a Probl...
by PhilSimms [19 minutes ago]

Bush is the most ignorant public speaker.
by calseamonster [3 minutes ago]

OBAMA - ARTICULATE
by lu_dude [19 minutes ago] Not rated 5

HIGHER EDUCATION == CURE FOR BEING A PUKE
by loanboy07 [3 minutes ago]

NOT SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION HAVE SAVINGS BEEN SOOOOO LOW
by lu_dude [43 minutes ago]

13 MILLION SUBURBANITES LIVING IN POVERTY
by lu_dude [40 minutes ago]

HEY PUKES, IS SENATOR WARNER A FAGGOT TRAITOR TOO?
by loanboy07 [22 minutes ago]

SO LET'S JUST GIVE THE PALESTINIANS THEIR STATE ALREADY
by loanboy07 [11 minutes ago]

PUT CHIMP ON A PAY FOR PERFORMANCE PLAN
by lu_dude [34 minutes ago] Not rated

"Heckuva Job Maliki"
by cgwingman [40 minutes ago]


30 posted on 02/01/2007 9:49:55 PM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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To: RushCrush

<<<How can we win this?<<<

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1777003/posts

NO EXCUSES. THAT IS HOW WE WIN.


31 posted on 02/01/2007 10:04:47 PM PST by ishabibble (ALL-AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: tcrlaf

"WE ARE LOSING THE PROPOGANDA WAR, FOLKS"

We were never in it.


32 posted on 02/01/2007 10:04:50 PM PST by Bob J (RIGHTALK.com...a conservative alternative to NPR!)
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To: jveritas

The propoganda war is going to be a mighty hard war to win, with a predominately christian army occupying a muslim country, and an oil-rich one at that. I'm surprised someone in the white house didn't consider the inevitabliity of all this before they decided to invade.


33 posted on 02/01/2007 10:06:02 PM PST by freeamerica1
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To: All

We at USMILNET have partnered with Vets4Victory, a grassroots organization led by LTC's(RET) Steve Russell and Scott Rutter.

Here is a link to our site, and the forum that pertains to what we can do:

http://usmilnet.com/smf/index.php


USMILNET is not just open to the military. We are open to all veterans, active duty, family members, and supporters. I will not lie, we do lean a bit to the right. We are basically a spin off from military.com because we felt they were starting to lean left. Our concerns have since been validated.


34 posted on 02/01/2007 10:08:42 PM PST by Rebelkev
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To: freeamerica1
I'm surprised someone in the white house didn't consider the inevitabliity of all this before they decided to invade.

Welcome. How do you know they didn't consider it?

35 posted on 02/01/2007 10:09:01 PM PST by pollyannaish
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To: TomGuy

Well, the President isn't comfortable with mass public speaking. He prefers small venues, and we don't want him being uncomfortable by addressing his, and more importantly, the military's detractors.


36 posted on 02/01/2007 10:26:31 PM PST by kenth (I wish compassionate conservatives were more compassionate to conservatism.)
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To: everyone

And we should believe "independent Iraqi websites and Arabic newspapers"? Sheesh.


37 posted on 02/01/2007 10:28:04 PM PST by California Patriot ("That's not Charlie the Tuna out there. It's Jaws." -- Richard Nixon)
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To: RushCrush

"all the people are on pilgrimage no matter where they are."

Or attending a wedding.


38 posted on 02/01/2007 10:47:45 PM PST by JSteff
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To: jveritas

I should have been more clear. Our enemies do not control the actual field -- our warfighters do. Our enemies control the field that we are discussing here -- i.e., the PR field. And that's a field that we have been ignoring to our peril. Remember the importance Churchill placed on propaganda if you disagree.


39 posted on 02/01/2007 10:55:50 PM PST by ellery (The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts. - Edmund Burke)
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To: Rebelkev; pollyannaish; tcrlaf; SandRat; RushCrush; jveritas; Bob J
People are starting to get motivated and organized to take action against the propaganda and are doing something about it. Please take a look at post 34.
 
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1777811/posts?page=34#34
 
I know Rebelkev from Conservative Underground and when I saw this thread I PM'd him over there. The subforum dealing with the issue of the propoganda war we're facing and what Rebelkev at USMILNET.com and Vets4Victory.com are doing is located here: http://usmilnet.com/smf/index.php?board=148.0  . 
 
 
 
 
 
 

40 posted on 02/01/2007 11:01:36 PM PST by Sally'sConcerns
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To: Sally'sConcerns

Hello everyone, I am an Active Duty GySgt in the Marine Corps and I just want to take a minute to resound what is being said and done here. I just found this site, thanks to a couple of buddies and I plan to scope it out and see what it has to offer.

I do know there are many vets and citizens alike who are sick and tired of the propaganda machine that is taking hold of this country as it did many years ago. There is true concern for this and it is time that those that are feeling helpless have a chance to stand up and fight back. If you have children, wife's, husbands or family members that are currently serving abroad in our fight against Terrorism, an din a fight to preserve the very Core of what America is embodied in, yet you feel helpless while they are there serving, then now is a chance to add to their fight, here on the home front.

I am currently abroad serving and I also am in the fight and mix as much as I can legally stand up for on the home front, pleading that we gather together to take this pressure off the backs of our Men and Women in uniform serving abroad.

As poster 34 (Rebel Kev) and a few others have noted, the ground work is already started. Please take time to check out USMILNET and Victory for Vets. On USMILNET, you will find me or rebel kev and our names as you see them, ready to help guide and make your visit as easy as possible.
We have started a thread called "A Call To Arms". We are not asking you to abandon what you have established here, we are only asking that if you really want to do something, more than just post on the internet, then please check the site out.

Again, I am not here to pull people between sites as I will be checking out this site as well. I am here to help give options and so that we as a concerned American group, can learn and grow from each other.

Thanks for allowing me to serve our Great Nation.

Semper Fidelis
GySgt USMC
Active / 0369


41 posted on 02/02/2007 3:47:24 AM PST by wallyaug1
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To: All

Semper Fidelis

Just checking how the post features work.

Carry on please!!!


42 posted on 02/02/2007 3:47:24 AM PST by wallyaug1 (USMC GySgt , Active 0369)
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To: ellery
Losing the propaganda war? We haven't even bothered engaging in that war to date. Our enemies control the field.

Thank you. You're 100% accurate! The bully pulpit is invisible to this White House and the majority of the GOP.

43 posted on 02/02/2007 3:52:25 AM PST by demkicker (In the minority or majority, I'll never stop kicking dems)
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To: tcrlaf
I understand why Bush took the high road, and assumed that THE TRUTH would eventually find it's way out, but that has OBVIOUSLY not worked...

I'm glad you understand, because I don't. This isn't a friendly game of tennis. Being a good sport is one thing. Getting pushed around while the other side cheats, and not calling them on it, is a sign of weakness and cowardice.

If the Administration is going to abandon the PR field to the left, then what do we have to look forward to besides defeat? Playing Mr. Nice Guy holds no virtue with me when we have troops in the field.

44 posted on 02/02/2007 3:54:32 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: ellery
OK thanks for the clarification and I apologize for misunderstanding you.

The Nazis controlled the propaganda field all the way until 1944 and the Communists controlled the propaganda field from 1945-1990, both evil regime are gone and belong to the ash heap of history. I am not saying that we must not fight the enemy propaganda or the left wing propaganda that giving aid and comfort to the enemy but we should not get all depressed because the enemy get a lot of coverage, we simply need to fight on and win the war most importantly on the battlefield and eventually we will achieve the ultimate victory against the terrorists whether they are organizations or regimes.

45 posted on 02/02/2007 5:16:18 AM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: tcrlaf
This is drawn from the Independent, a marginal rag that is for people who think the Guardian is too right wing.

Regards, Ivan

46 posted on 02/02/2007 5:18:13 AM PST by MadIvan (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: Steel Wolf

The President speaks about the war everyday but he does not get the coverage everyday. Unless our side controls 50% or more of the media we are going to get less coverage and our terrorist enemy will get more coverage and he will be favored by the left wing media and who aid and comfort the enemy on a daily basis.


47 posted on 02/02/2007 5:20:31 AM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: tcrlaf

I mean we are winning more elections than the left. Even in this last election that was won by the democrats; they won because many of their candidates run to the right of Republicans. Since the left control 70% to 80% of the media why did the Republicans won 7 of the last 10 Presidential elections and won Congress from 1994-2006?


48 posted on 02/02/2007 5:25:12 AM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: wallyaug1

These guys have a point...

It is FAR beyond time we got up from our Desk chairs, and sacrificed a little time for those who sacrifice for US...

The only way you fight a Propoganda Machine is with a counter Program, and that organizing Camera opportunities, sound-bites, and a cohesive message...

The left has used every trick in the Geobbell's Playbook, but TRUTH and FACTS, delivered in a form easily digestable by a "drive-by" media" can be damning...


49 posted on 02/02/2007 5:25:41 AM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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To: jveritas

"we should not get all depressed because the enemy get a lot of coverage"

The very point of all that propoganda is to depress the public to the point of abandoning the war....

AND IT IS WORKING....

The daily drip, drip, drip, of bad news, fake news, fake scandals, and 24/7 propoganda DOES have an effect.

You yourself have tried to get THE FACTS out above the din, and have been ignored by the vast majority of the Media.

You don't throw fancy parties with free food for reporters, while delivering your "News"....

You haven't paid for a biased push-poll to drive news and opinion about your "Discoveries".

You aren't recieving huge sums of money from questionable overseas sources to push your particular viewpoint.

DISSENT is as American as Apple Pie, it's the TREASON I have a real problem with....


50 posted on 02/02/2007 5:36:21 AM PST by tcrlaf (VOTE DEM! You'll Look GREAT In A Burqa!)
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