Posted on 07/22/2007 12:29:35 PM PDT by RedRover
The week in review
Headlines for the prosecution!
The prosecution kicked things off with sensational (though irrelevant) testimony: Marine charged in Iraq murders wanted leeway to kill, troop says. The "troop" was Sgt. Sanick Dela Cruz who claims that LCpl Tatum once said to him that war should be fought as described in scriptures, "where you just go in the city and kill every living thing." Tatum supposedly once mocked Dela Cruz for asking permission before shooting. In Haditha, Dela Cruz said, Tatum suggested that $5,000 (recovered from insurgents) be sent to the family of LCpl Terrarazas to pay for a funeral.
Dela Cruz (which may be Fillipino for "chatterbox") provided another irrelevant though lurid detail...
Dela Cruz testified…that Tatum left a telling signature on a gift to the parents of the Marine killed by the roadside bomb. All the squad members signed a pack the young man had owned, he said. Near Tatum's signature were 24 hatch marks -- the number of civilians killed at Haditha -- and an inscription reading, "This one's for you."
Zimmerman suggested that the inscription referred to a rosary Tatum attached to the pack.
Then came the shocker, LCpl Humberto Mendoza (pfc at the time of the incident): Witness Testifies Marine Knowingly Shot Children in Haditha
It won't surprise anyone who's followed Haditha to learn that the witness didn't actually see (a.k.a., "witness") the event.
Mendoza said that he did not feel threatened in the house, even though he killed two men as the squad moved through the area clearing homes. In the second house they entered, Mendoza said, he stayed in the kitchen while the rest of the team moved inside. After several minutes of quiet, Mendoza said he ventured down a hall to a room with a closed door.
Inside, he found a bed with two women and four or five children on it. "They were scared," Mendoza said. He backed out of the room and told Tatum what he found. But Tatum told him to shoot the women and children, Mendoza testified.
"Was he joking?" asked prosecutor LtCol Paul Atterbury. "He was very serious," Mendoza said.
Tatum then entered the room, Mendoza said. Mendoza heard rifle fire and later saw all of the occupants dead, he said.
Tatum's attorney Jack B. Zimmerman...asked why Mendoza had not offered this version of events when initially questioned by investigators. He suggested that Mendoza, a Venezuelan citizen, was worried that he could lose the chance to become a U.S. citizen.The question is how much weight the IO, LtCol Paul Ware will give this testimony.
Jack Zimmermann, brought up two polygraph test results: LCpl Tatum passed when he said he entered both houses believing they were hostile. Mendoza, on the other hand, failed a polygraph based on his current testimony. LtCol Ware, however, said he didn't believe in polygraphs so he will not give either result any weight.
NCIS interrogator tells Marine he’s ashamed of him
Naval Criminal Investigative Service Special Agent Brian Brittingham testified that the first interrogation of LCpl Tatum lasted 12 hours. Testified that the first interrogation of LCpl Tatum lasted 12 hours. It took place in the subterranean dungeon of Haditha dam--a foul, dark, concrete room that stinks of urine and is usually reserved for interviews with insurgents.
One of Tatum’s interrogators, NCIS agent Matthew Marshall, told the lance corporal he was ashamed of the Marines for murdering civilians. The lance corporal demanded that the interrogation stop and he asked for a lawyer. Unfortunately, LCpl Tatum was convinced (or coerced) to continue.
In his testimony, Agent Marshall told the court that Tatum had admitted to murdering civilians in Haditha but Marshall was challenged by the defense.
- LCpl Tatum never swore to or signed the statements that Marshall said he made. The defense argues that the statements attributed to their client are inadmissible in court.
- They criticized the agency's agents for failing to make audio or video recordings of any of the interviews.
- The interview should have stopped immediately after Tatum asked for an attorney.
No evidence ties LCpl Tatum to any of the killings
From a courtroom sketch, Lt. Col. Elizabeth Rouse, a forensic pathologist
and medical examiner testified for the prosecutionThe rest of this week was given to NCIS agents and forensic experts for the prosecution, each one speculating wildly based on photographs.
Two Marines stood in the bedroom of a home in Haditha, Iraq, firing automatic rifles point-blank until two women and five children had died Nov. 19, 2005, a Naval Criminal Investigative Service crime-scene investigator said yesterday in a Camp Pendleton courtroom.
Special Agent Michael Maloney said at least 17 bullets had been fired. He said the women were shot first, and that the children were killed as they scrambled to escape.
But under defense cross-examination, Maloney acknowledged that he based his conclusions on photographs. He said a brief, on-site investigation four months after the killings revealed no physical evidence tying the Marines to the scene.The defense was able to hammer away at all this:
- There are no autopsies.
- Hospital pathology reports could not be tied to individuals and no body was examined at the scene
- Photos came from various sources, and their origin was often questionable. None were taken to be used to recreate a "crime scene".
Evidence of insurgents
Ignored, as usual, by headline writers everywhere is that evidence was found that the Marines were not on a killing spree, but were battling insurgents in Haditha.
SSgt Justin Laughner testified that there were AK-47s casings in the houses.
Also ignored by the media was testimony by Cpl Robert Stafford. He testified that two AK 47s were retrieved from house one and two. Intriguingly, he added that he believed an AK 47 was retrieved from the white car before prosecutors cut him off.
From a courtroom sketch, left to right: Investigating officer, Lt Col Paul Ware,
and SSgt Justin LaughnerAs in the Sharratt hearing, NCIS displayed a complete lack of interest in anything having to do with the insurgent presence in Iraq.
Were agents aware that an Iraqi girl had her hands over her ears, waiting for he IED blast? No. Did NCIS agents investigate the ridgeline runner who was also shot by Marines? No.
What’s ahead
This weekend, LtCol Ware has been reviewing despositions. This will make for interesting reading.
In the deposition of Iraqis, the only witness to the shooting in house number two, Safa Younis, told NCIS interviewers that the shooter was shorter than she was. LCpl Tatum is six foot two inches--without his helmet and battle gear. If this testimony is to be believed, suspicion should fall on the height-challenged Marine, Pfc. Mendoza (maybe the wrong man was given immunity.)
The hearing will resume Monday, July 23, with defense witnesses. Among others, photographer Lucian Read is expected to testify.
In other news, the defense funds for the Marines was the subject of a great write-up in the Sunday New York Times (believe it or not!)
Interesting stuff!
As always, thanks for the pings.
D’oh! Obervations=observations.
He had my support and he had to piss it away.
BTW: Nice write up.
Thanks for the info!
A good 'for instance' is the incident involving the white "taxi" with 4 military age "students" that just happened upon the scene of the fatal ied blast minutes after it happened, during a full scale battle. We were led to believe by murtha and the drive by msm that the ied went off and that was the end of it, except for the so called rampage by the Marines.
We now know, courtesy of Capt. Dinsmore's sworn testimony, that a known "operation" was to take place that day in Haditha and that it would involve a white car carrying terrorists. We also know, according to 2 Marines, that 1 or 2 ak47s were found in the car. Sorta puts the "4 college students with their hands up" in a different perspective.
So....we have SSgt Justin Laughner testifying that there were AK-47s casings at the houses. We have Cpl Robert Stafford testifying that two AK 47s were retrieved from house one and two. We also have Cpl Stafford adding that he believed an AK 47 was retrieved from the white car before prosecutors cut him off. We have Tatum passing a polygraph not only that he thought the house was hostile, but he didn’t know women and children were behind the door.
What does the prosecution have? Wild speculations on what might have happened from very incomplete photos of the dead Iraqis, no autopsies, and no ballistics. And, oh yeah, they have Mendoza who changed his story, has a big motive to lie about what happened, and can’t pass a polygraph.
Do you really think this will go forward to trial?
I do not believe you, Mendoza. I think that testimony was spoonfed to you. I would think you would choke on it.
Hahahahahaha!!!!!
Girlene - I’m sure he must be mistaken. Those were simply innocent students on a morning drive that happened upon a tragic scene and a group of bloodthirsty trained killers out for revenge. After all Dela Cruz aka “Mr PP” said they were standing beside the taxi with their arms raised and tied behind their backs at the same time... And Mr. Murtha said there were no weapons recovered at the scene...
(insert extreme sarcasm tag here)
The persecution has no case. Free the Hidatha 8.
Pray for W and Our Marines
I'm comparing this in my mind to the Sharratt case. In his recommendation, the IO was clear that Justin's account of events was supported by physical evidence. The government's account was not.
I just don't know if we'll get to that place in the Tatum case. There doesn't seem to be strong evidence for either side. So is the IO likelier to recommend dismissal or put it in the hands of a jury?
We'll see how the defense goes about building its case this week. If they make a convincing case that the Iraqis, supposedly shot by Tatum, were actually killed by grenades, then I'd predict a dismissal. Anything much short of that, though, may not be enough to keep this from going forward.
The houses were concrete buildings. Curtains were closed, so the rooms were dark. The ceilings were about three inches of plaster. The Marines led with grenades and the denotations caused the whole house to fill with smoke and plaster dust. The dust would have collected on the goggles the Marines were wearing.
SSgt Laughner testified that it took hours for the clouds of dust to settle. During the house clearing, there was very little chance that the Marines could see much of anything except shapes. It's also unlikely that they could have heard one another well enough to carry out a conversation. People who are wounded and scared are usually not very quiet.
In the morning, there was no way for LCpl Tatum to tell who had hit. I found out recently that Tatum only knew what had happened because he went back inside the houses in the afternoon.
One of the Marines' grenades had failed to detonate. Someone must have forgotten to pull the tape. Whatever the reason, it didn't go off and LCpl Tatum went back to retrieve it. And he was in time to see the bodies of the dead being taken away.
This also explains why Tatum told NCIS that he had killed women and children. He knew what had happened--but not at the time.
Good post and thread.
Good info Red, thanks.
that really explains a lot Red. of course, we’re the only ones hearing or caring about that information...
Remember this? ^ Cpl. Josh Karlin rode by that white car on his Medivac, and saw several weapons stacked against the white car. We had a pic of it from the rear passenger side showing the bodies -- the weapons would have to have been on the driver's side for him to see them.
Stupid question; do they have any type of hearing protection for tossing grenades. Have to believe that would ring your ears for quite a while.
One of the Marines' grenades had failed to detonate. Someone must have forgotten to pull the tape. Whatever the reason, it didn't go off and LCpl Tatum went back to retrieve it. And he was in time to see the bodies of the dead being taken away.
I'm surprised they didn't make the claim that the criminal always returns to the scene of his crime! ;^)
ping
There was a time when he was a good news ping.
So did it come down to lets make a deal ‘Deala Cruz’?
At least he has his graveyard story from 2004, when he was a leader.
Well, like Red said, what Dela Cruz testified to is irrelevant. It seems a real stretch that that would make him a murderer even if it’s all true.
I’m still trying to figure out when the US Constitution was amended to guarantee protections to FOREIGNERS, especially terrorists and illegals.
Red, I posted this on another thread....Mendoza claims he stayed in the kitchen (House #2), the rest of the team was moving around inside for several minutes. Then, he goes to investigate the back bedroom. Where were the rest of the guys? Were they all in the bathroom taking a smoke break? He testifies as if he was alone in the house to discover the women and kids, then the Marines, or at least Tatum, magically appear again after his discovery. If you look at the diagram, the bedroom where the women and children were killed is a straight shot down the hallway from the entry point of the kitchen.
With your additional info on the physical environment of the house, (House #2 is the main one we are talking about)... could you post the pic of House #2? Given the layout of the house, Mendoza’s statements make no sense.
The bottom house is the one Mendoza is talking about. Where you see the red insurgent is the kitchen where everyone entered from the outside. The bedroom where all the women and children were killed is just a straight shot down the hall. Mendoza claimed he alone went to the back bedroom after shooting the man in the kitchen. Where were Tatum, Wuterich and Salinas? Just hanging out in the kitchen? He says he went back to the kitchen and stayed their while Tatum shot all the people.
All great points, Girlene. We know LtCol Ware is smart and fair and I hope Mendoza’s testimony is completely discounted. And I also hope our new fellow citizen goes back home.
FWIW I still don’t think Mendoza is an idjitt : )
I may be wrong, but this game ain’t over.
Maybe Wunterich and Salinas went topside to the roof, or back (left) to the rest of the house? He said that Tatum came past him in the hallway, going in as he was headed back out?
You’re right, it doesn’t make sense from an operational perspective, as they stack into an unknown area to cover each other and clear it. Then there is the testimony of the little girl — the shooter was short.
Sommat aint right.
No, I don’t think he’s an idjitt either. But the shenanigans that NCIS has drug them all through could have scrambled his recollections. Happens to me all the time, and I’m not usually under duress. I just blame it on CRS!
(Forerunner to Alzheimers — Can’t Remember Squat.)
You win! I had to google FWIW.
Yeah, sumpthin’ like that~
So, what’d ya google? LOL!
FWIW, Red, I think this is your best summation yet.
LtCol Ware would have at least needed a white board and 30 different colored markers to try to sort this mess out as he reviewed depositions this weekend...interesting reading barely covers it.
He had my support and he had to piss it away
oui oui!
Oh the humor meter is high on FR!
Good one!
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