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Temporary Fasteners Causing Major Problems for 787 Program
flightblogger | September 4, 2007 | Jon Ostrower

Posted on 09/04/2007 8:56:32 AM PDT by skeptoid

According to sources with direct knowledge at both ends of the major sub-assembly supply chain, temporary parts, including fasteners, are causing significant slow downs in the 787 program.

The source of the slowdown in progress on Dreamliner One originated in the rush to meet the July 8th roll out. The push to achieve this milestone forced supply chain partners to use over-the-counter parts and prevented assembly teams from being able to document the location of these temporary fasteners on the first 787.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 787; aerospace; airbus; boeing; dreamliner; duelinthesky
I was blocked using the source url of THE ARTICLE because it is at blogspot, but this is news.
Jon has established a very good reputation as a source of exclusive Dreamliner news the past couple of months.
1 posted on 09/04/2007 8:56:34 AM PDT by skeptoid
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To: skeptoid

No Cleco’s?


2 posted on 09/04/2007 8:59:45 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: skeptoid
Temporary Fasteners Causing Major Problems for 787 Program

Well, if this causes Boeing to pull back maybe $10/share, that's
good: another buying opportunity!
3 posted on 09/04/2007 9:00:07 AM PDT by VOA
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To: skeptoid

Why isn’t this in Breaking News?

Oh wait, it is.


4 posted on 09/04/2007 9:02:18 AM PDT by SmithL (I don't do Barf Alerts, you're old enough to read and decide for yourself)
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To: skeptoid

They can use duct tape


5 posted on 09/04/2007 9:03:08 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: taxed2death

Those things are awesome. A friend of mine just redid the trunk in his ‘65 Chevelle and he said they probably saved him several days’ worth of time.


6 posted on 09/04/2007 9:08:00 AM PDT by lesser_satan (Fred Thompson '08)
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To: skeptoid
The 787 Dreamliner should be built by the best the aerospace industry has to offer. What seems to have happened here is that Boeing has built a house starting from the roof down. Any time you build anything as complicated as the 787 you need to build a good base and work up from there.

Ignorant analogy. You frame a house, then roof it, then finish it out. Otherwise, it rains on ya!

What I expect from a good Boeing design is the engineering over-design that allows targets to be met even with Ace Hardware fasteners!

Because eventually, in 30 years when these things are flying in Belize Airways inventory, that's what they're going to be maintained with!

7 posted on 09/04/2007 9:09:40 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: skeptoid

airbus must be cheering.


8 posted on 09/04/2007 9:13:25 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: skeptoid

A blog in breaking news? Outstanding.


9 posted on 09/04/2007 9:15:29 AM PDT by BJClinton (And then it occured to me: a real rocket scientist posted the Friday silliness thread on Thursday.)
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To: taxed2death
Nope. .... lots of harware store substitute fasteners for the rollout and it looked GOOD. But theyre having difficulty finding and replacing them with the real thing.
The whole program is so innovative and uses so many new materials, metnods of manufacture, outsourcing (maybe remote prefabbing is the right term) and risk sharing that delays almost seem inevitable.
It's certainly a big learning process, but the customers aren't at all timid!

I just wonder if making the magic 07/08/07 rollout was the best thing to do.

10 posted on 09/04/2007 9:18:35 AM PDT by skeptoid (AA, UE, MBS (with clusters))
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To: skeptoid

This is another example of how the unions have ruined American manufacturing. Boeing is having all sorts of issues trying to build these planes in Everett with all the outsourced parts! I don’t think I’d like to fly on the first dozen or so of these big planes.


11 posted on 09/04/2007 9:20:43 AM PDT by bigfootbob
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To: skeptoid

That’s what happens when you try to put a plane together with pop-rivets.


12 posted on 09/04/2007 9:21:53 AM PDT by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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To: BJClinton
I know ... have I acutally sinned?

I considered this a scoop, but I had to work around.

13 posted on 09/04/2007 9:22:08 AM PDT by skeptoid (AA, UE, MBS (with clusters))
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To: skeptoid
but this is news.

But certainly not breaking news to anyone but Airbus.

14 posted on 09/04/2007 9:27:11 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: skeptoid

I complained before about blog URLs being banned for news... as if the AP is the only source of news.

Why is AP sainted and real individual journalists banished from Free Republic News?

Stupid policy I think


15 posted on 09/04/2007 9:28:18 AM PDT by pacelvi (In general, Democrats are the only real reason to vote for Republicans. - Thomas Sowell)
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To: skeptoid
Read the whole post at flightblogger
16 posted on 09/04/2007 9:28:36 AM PDT by skeptoid (AA, UE, MBS (with clusters))
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To: PAR35

It’s breaking news to me.

Speak for yourself.


17 posted on 09/04/2007 9:30:41 AM PDT by pacelvi (In general, Democrats are the only real reason to vote for Republicans. - Thomas Sowell)
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To: SmithL

Well, if the Duncan Hunter campaign appearance merited breaking news, why not a blog entry about the 787.


18 posted on 09/04/2007 9:30:59 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: pacelvi
It’s breaking news to me.

Not so long as the fasteners don't fail.

Stories like this make you wonder who is shorting the stock.

19 posted on 09/04/2007 9:32:10 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: bigfootbob

Don’t go blaming the Unions, if they had their way the parts would not be outsourced.


20 posted on 09/04/2007 9:32:15 AM PDT by Shots
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To: PAR35
But certainly not breaking news to anyone but Airbus.

It is.
There has been a mysterious lack of news on the Dreamliner and this is the first update I've come across.
(flightblogger has 'inside sources')

21 posted on 09/04/2007 9:33:28 AM PDT by skeptoid (AA, UE, MBS (with clusters))
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To: skeptoid

They banished your post to the Blogs topic. No longer in news.


22 posted on 09/04/2007 9:40:01 AM PDT by pacelvi (In general, Democrats are the only real reason to vote for Republicans. - Thomas Sowell)
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To: skeptoid

Apparently not only not breaking news, but not news at all.

Here’s a hint. Don’t overreach. If you had put it in news, but not tagged it for breaking news, it might not have gotten kicked to ‘bloggers’ quite so quickly.

If I put a pit bull story in breaking news, I expect it wouldn’t last long. I drop it in chat, and the mods leave me alone.


23 posted on 09/04/2007 9:43:18 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: skeptoid; All
OK, here’s my two cents:
First of all, as far as outsourcing goes: Composite LAY-UP is a simple process...that is the beauty of composites. You lay one ply of material on top of another, and viola, you have an assembly. I disagree with the assumption that there are “unskilled” workers involved. All work went to already-esablished aircraft houses.
Secondly: Don’t expect bags of rivets and fasteners shipped with the assemblies, unless the contract directs it. The contract is my bible (I’m a Composite QE), and we do EXACTLY what Boeing’s contract people tell us to do.
Thirdly: This is a composite Boeing aircraft. AT THE VERY LEAST, Boeing comes in and watches us build a part. They evaluate our ability to build that part. Then we destroy and mircophotograph that part to ensure there are no anomalies in it. Boeing then witnesses us build a first article part. This will ultimately become a flying part. This part will be TTU'd or ultrasounded, or X-rayed, just as EVERY composite Boeing part is.

Before anyone starts using “outsourced” and “safety” in the same sentence, make sure you know what you are talking about. Boeing Quality is by our side the entire time.

Keep in mind that the tail was damaged at disassembly by “skilled union workers”.

24 posted on 09/04/2007 9:54:01 AM PDT by baltodog (R.I.P. Balto: 2001(?) - 2005)
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To: taxed2death

“No Cleco’s?”

LOL! I’ve seen one that they were towing out of the hanger door that had Cleco’s still in it. Morons!


25 posted on 09/04/2007 9:54:11 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: nina0113

“That’s what happens when you try to put a plane together with pop-rivets.”

Actually, they do have pop-rivets for aircraft, they’re called Cherry Fasteners.


26 posted on 09/04/2007 9:56:53 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: PAR35
Just in: Aero-News version of story
27 posted on 09/04/2007 9:59:28 AM PDT by skeptoid (AA, UE, MBS (with clusters))
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To: skeptoid

Good trick - you got me with that circular link back to this thread.


28 posted on 09/04/2007 10:05:05 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: baltodog

Let me correct myself about outsourcing. I should have said off shore outsourcing. Boeing has always relied on a cottage industry of part suppliers, they helped build the Puget Sound area. We are on the same page concerning the unions.


29 posted on 09/04/2007 10:30:36 AM PDT by bigfootbob
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To: PAR35

2 things come into play here. Since 9/11 there had been so little demand for aircraft fasteners that many suppliers dried up. Some were “absorbed” by other fastener companies and some merely dumped all their inventory as scrap. Secondly due to all the new requirements pertaining to new composites, new fasteners had to be invented.


30 posted on 09/04/2007 11:18:19 AM PDT by freebird5850
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To: freebird5850
...and this problem is not typical just to Boeing...

There is a big helicopter maker in Connecticut that is unable to secure fasteners that have been engineered into their products.

Their complaint is that the 787 is sucking up all the world’s existing stock.

I think this is a problem, with the potential to become major, that no one ever considered.

There is a lot of cost involved in the mfr of a simple aircraft rivet or screw...testing, material records, records retention, etc.

I would hate to be he poor sap involved in those logistics!

31 posted on 09/04/2007 12:21:35 PM PDT by baltodog (R.I.P. Balto: 2001(?) - 2005)
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To: skeptoid
have I acutally sinned?

Sinned? No, it's not like you voiced support for Giuliani or anything. ;-)

But unless it's something that Fox or CNN would interrupt their regular broadcast for, like a car chase, then it doesn't really belong in breaking.
32 posted on 09/04/2007 12:35:56 PM PDT by BJClinton (And then it occured to me: a real rocket scientist posted the Friday silliness thread on Thursday.)
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To: dljordan

I was happier not knowing that!


33 posted on 09/04/2007 4:54:00 PM PDT by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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