Skip to comments.Islam and Freemasonry
Posted on 10/10/2007 2:15:55 AM PDT by Traianus
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> Which parts do you find objectionable?
I didn’t say I found it objectionable. I said I found it to be the writings of a lunatic.
What I *do* find objectionable is that Albert Pike is constantly quoted at Freemasons by non-Freemasons as being the Difinitive view on Freemasonry. The Craft doesn’t work like that. Naturally, Pike was entitled to his opinions. I am not obliged to share his views as if they were Holy Writ. I’m certainly not prepared to defend them as Definitive.
The Craft. I am hoping you are a member and not a basher. If the latter, don’t bother replying. I am busy giving my cat a bath.
Go back and tell the Pope, “No sale, Poppa!”
Concerning Greek myths, or whatever, it wouldn't surprise me to see a correspondence between Freemasonry and any other belief system or religion, as there should be a common denominator found in all of them, the teaching of morals. Freemasonry just happens to add a truth that is not found in some religions . . the brotherhood of man under the Fatherhood of God -- and establishes an environment to practice it, to the consternation of its detractors.
Freemasonry is the worlds greatest fraternity, not a religion, and strives for the good of mankind.
(A) To insure as best we can that a candidate gets the full effect and benefit of going through the degrees. Think, surprise birthday party. Or, don't you hate it when somebody tells you the ending of a movie you are planning to see?
(B) There was a time in history when certain religious leaders thought it worthy of death for someone to freely associate with anyone they wanted to, thinking it was blasphemy to stray from the flock and its group-think.
(C) These days, the only thing secret about Freemasonry are the passes and signs of recognition. The complete ritual can be found in public libraries, or even on the internet.
(D) The Craft attempts to preserve the flavor of the ritual, to keep it from being changed in honor and recognition of those freedom-lovers of yesteryear who were persecuted and slain because they strayed from the flock of groupthink. The secrets practiced by the Craft during those periods were necessary not only for their physical survival, but for the survival of the right to pursue truth to its outer limits apart from a doctrine which institutionalized and limited truth.
I don't understand all the pre-occupation some folks have with trying to abolish Freemasonry, or to attribute to it many false teachings in order to prevent anyone from joining. Makes you wonder what the detractors really fear about Freemasonry? Difficult to believe that groupthink and bigotry still exists in the hallways of truth during this age of enlightenment.
Perhaps, but I think it's more a case of people wanting something for nothing. They want the secrets in this case, but not willing to pay the price of admission. Or they want to be recognized as worthy of receiving the information from a Mason without having to go through the degrees. Won't happen. We don't recruit. You have to ask. The only thing that might hinder you is if you don't have a belief in a Supreme Being. I think there are lodges for aetheists, but you'd have to go to France. That is where European Freemasonry split into two Grand Lodges. France opted for not having to profess a belief in deity. I haven't followed their progress since then, and and just guessing they still exist.
Yes, fundamentalism, of any stripe, seems to be the ones persecuting Freemasonry. Which I find strange, because I'm basically a Pentacostal fundamentalist myself. When I was asked 'in whom do I put my trust?' when I took my first degree I proclaimed loudly and clearly, "My Lord, Jesus Christ!" and was immediately told my faith was well-founded. From that moment on I had no fear about anything I might encounter in Freemasonry, even to this day.
"How would you differentiate between the universal brotherhood of Freemasonry and the hierarchical collective mandates of communism?"
Freemasonry encourages individualism and self-responsibility. Communism mandates group-think and teaches socialism with no moral absolutes. The state is 'god.'
"Kipling's Mother-Lodge would seem to indicate that Freemasonry places great importance on the right to be an individual. What safeguards are there to prevent Freemasonry from being abused and used to consolidate power in the hands of an occult oligarchy?
There is no central authority in Freemasonry. Each state has its own autonomy and rank and file Freemasons comprise the Grand Lodge leadership. Grand Lodge officers serve but one year and the chairs are rotated. As no one Lodge or Grand Lodge, or individual speaks for Freemasonry, I see no opportunity for Freemasonry to be co-opted. In a sense, everything is already 'cut and dried' and any lodge member is elibible to be elected Grand Master once they attain the credentials of past-master of a Lodge.
There are other Masonic-like organizations which have the word, 'Masonic' in their titles. That is a topic for another time, and one that should be more openly discussed, for the confusion non-Masons have is differentiating between the different Masonic bodies. Some of these bodies have given mainline Freemasonry a bad name.
[There are other Masonic-like organizations which have the word, 'Masonic' in their titles.]
I think you may have hit the nail on the head there - Masonic-like.
The antics of Cecil Rhodes and his merry band of secret-society pirates come to mind: Cecil Rhodes wrote a Confession of Faith in 1877. There he laid out his plan to bring the world under British rule and recapture the United States. He wrote:
Cecil Rhodes wrote a Confession of Faith in 1877. There he laid out his plan to bring the world under British rule and recapture the United States. He wrote:
"The idea gleaming and dancing before ones eyes like a will-o-the-wisp at last frames itself into a plan. Why should we not form a secret society with but one object, the furtherance of the British Empire, for the bringing of the whole uncivilized world under British rule, for the recovery of the United States, for the making [of] the Anglo-Saxon race but one Empire" . . . .
20. Frederic Howe, The Confessions of a Reformer, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1925, pp. 291-292.
I wonder whether the Freemasons who wrote and implemented our Declaration of Independence would be amused - or outraged.
Albert Pike was a Scottish Rite mason, speaking for himself alone; it is not correct to infer that his beliefs are the beliefs of other masons -— especially York Rite Masons -— which is an exclusively Christian fraternity (albeit nondenominational).
"I wonder whether the Freemasons who wrote and implemented our Declaration of Independence would be amused - or outraged."
Had they known the precise methods the enemy would some day use to regain control, they would have added a few things to the Constitution, I'm sure. But even so, I thought the wording of the currency clause was sufficient to ward off the evils of converting our currency. Even at this late date I am astounded at how easy it was for Roosevelt, et al, to put us back in bondage -- sapping our wealth and saddling us with an unpayable debt. Fait accompli? Looks like they'll be repeating the scam in the near future, trading the FRN system for the Amero.
And with the move towards a a North American Union, the coup de grace?
No, Smith simply took parts of the EA, Fellowcraft, and master mason Blue Lodge, and some of the “capitular” masonry -— Mark Master, it seems to me — and mushed them together.
This makes sense, in that, back in the day, all Blue Lodges were these four degrees — now the Mark Master is moved over to the York Rite.
(The first 6 or so degrees in the York Rite are parables about the 1st and 2nd temple, then move to Christ, and then to guarding Christiandom until such time as Christ returns.)
The skull and cross bones are the marine battle flag of the Knights Templar. These have been an order of York Rite Masonry for many centuries. Most Knights Templar were burned at the stake by the church for silly reasons in the 14th century. The survivors found refuge in England. The skull and cross bones ravaged catholic shipping for some time thereafter.
Yes the jolly roger is a masonic symbol.
Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, and Justice.
Thanks for pinging me.
>> Is the definition of good the same for Christian, Muslim, and Communist?
Do you realize that communist practices are found in most families and even in Jesus’ inner circle of apostles? Now, I don’t condone communist government, but if I didn’t share the wealth at all, then society would be worse off - that’s pure and simple.
>> Who defines good?
The question is improperly put. Rather ask, how will we know if something is good? The answer is found in the innermost recesses of the heart, and only by those who are pure at heart. One can ascertain whether one is pure at heart by observing whether ones actions increase others hardships and make others sad or not - deep inside all will know the truth about that.
We as an organization contribute millions each day to unarguably worthy causes such as free-of-charge burn units, dislexic childrens learning centers, diabetic childrens camps, special olympics, etc, etc, etc. We know these things we do to be good. Anyone who should argue that would certainly be blinded with ambition.
[Do you realize that communist practices are found in most families and even in Jesus inner circle of apostles?]
I realize that spiritually inspired altruism and government mandated wealth redistribution are two very different things. Separation of church and state is a “good” thing.
>> Does Turkish incursion into Iraq make the Kurds sad?
I suppose perhaps. But then maybe the nuke flashed over Hiroshima too suddenly to make an of those zipper head folks over there sad... Which leaves you off the hook.
[I suppose perhaps]
Which side believes, in their heart, that they are right?
Is there a lodge in Kurdistan?
>> Which side believes, in their heart, that they are right?
This is not the topic of this thread. Why not post a suitable article and ping me.
To answer your question here: those who bomb grade schools, execute school teachers, bomb department stores, and commit all sorts of other terror attacks may induce themselves to think they are good - but deep inside their evil quietly nags them.
Anyway - you seem smart enough to blur the lines between Kurds and the PKK - but you know it’s wrong to do so and that you are being a bad VxH for it. Don’t allow foreign entanglments play you like a hand puppet. They’ll always leave you high and dry in the end.
So George Washington is now Muslim?
>> I wasn’t aware that the PKK had engaged in this kind of activity.
Search google for “forgotten fotographs pkk”
>> I’d expect proponents of communism would find Sharia-Marxism quite exciting.
That wouldn’t be me.
The problem is more the Kurdish incursions into Turkey.
[The problem is more the Kurdish incursions into Turkey.]
Maybe everyone involved would do well to ignore Henry Kissinger and show respect for national sovereignty.
The PKK should be dealt with via the authority of the Iraqi government.
Suppose it were Mexicans crossing our border to commit acts of terrorism?
[Suppose it were Mexicans crossing our border to commit acts of terrorism?]
Should the U.S.A. send troops into Mexico without the cooperation or support of the Mexican government?
Has Turkey attempted to enlist the cooperation and support of the Iraqi government?
If Mexico was unwilling to cooperate, yes, absolutely.
W/regard to Turkey and Iraq, it does not appear that they have sent troops over the border in a significant manner, if at all. As I understand it, they are merely threatening/preparing to do so.
Hopefully, we (and the Iraqi governement) are cooperating with Turkey w/regard to the PKK.
The PKK are the bad guys. Turkey is the good guy.
I think the doc has merit.
But I get sooooo weary of the Masons thing. And, it kind of feels like poking a stick at the decaying carcass of a skunk.
If there’s a particular post or part you’d like me to respond to, please say so. Otherwise, I’ll probably leave decaying skunks alone for my own comfort.
Iraq is a sovereign nation.
If there are criminals in Iraq then it’s the responsibility of the Iraqi police and legal system to deal with them.
The Turks should be working with the Government of Iraq to resolve the situation.
Rather ask, how will we know if something is good? The answer is found in the innermost recesses of the heart, and only by those who are pure at heart. One can ascertain whether one is pure at heart by observing whether ones actions increase others hardships and make others sad or not - deep inside all will know the truth about that.
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