Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Islam and Freemasonry
Freemasons-freemasonry.com ^ | 29-07-2006 | Bro. Shaikh Hatim Fidahussein Nakhoda PM

Posted on 10/10/2007 2:15:55 AM PDT by Traianus

Review of Freemasonry

    Send Masonic Postcard Send Masonic E-Card




ISLAM AND FREEMASONRY
by W.Bro. Shaikh Hatim Fidahussein Nakhoda PM
Research Lodge St. Michael No. 2933, Singapore
District Grand Lodge of the Eastern Archipelego, UGLE.


Presented in The Lodge St. Michael No. 2933 on 29th July, 2006.
W. Bro. Shaikh Hatim Nakhoda is a Past Master of Lodge St. Michael No. 2933 and a Past District Senior Grand Warden of the District Grand Lodge of the Eastern Archipelago. He is also a Past Master of Lodge Singapore No 7178. In addition, he holds the rank of Past Asst. Grand Director of Ceremony in the Grand Lodge of Mark Master Masons of England and Wales and its Districts Overseas. He also carries the title Shaikh which was conferred on him, for his knowledge on Islam.
This paper has been first published on The District Grand Lodge of the Eastern Archipelego website


Assalaamo Alaikum, that is, peace be with you!

Worshipful Master, distinguished brethren and brethren: I am pleased to submit my dissertation with some trepidation, as I feel unequal to doing justice to this complex subject in a space of 20 odd minutes. But, I was persuaded to take up the challenge by the encouragement and assistance of W Bros Shiva Banerjee and Ronald Ng, whom I could not disappoint.

Islam has been much in the limelight these days. I have been diligent in attending to my duties as both, a mason and a Muslim and have come to realise that Islam and masonry are indeed compatible. Freemasonry may even be considered complementary to Islam as its principles only go to reinforce a Muslim brother’s own faith; contrary to the misconceptions widely held among my Muslim brethren from various sects. The distrust perhaps arises from the fact that masonic symbols are derived from segments of the Old Testament such as the Temple of King Solomon, which gives the uninstructed world the erroneous impression that masons are Zionists. It is serious enough for masonry to have been brought into question in Malaysia in the late 70s. Yet, the Old Testament is not excluded from the beliefs of Islam. On the contrary, King Solomon is considered to have been a follower of Islam 1 ! More of this later … Anyway, masons are obligated to submit to the laws of the VSL, which, in the case of the Muslim brethren in the Craft, is the Holy Quran, if they so desire.

In this sense, the Antient Charges are also relevant. They direct the masons “to obey the moral law… and practice the sacred duties of morality”. They exhort him to “never be a stupid atheist nor an irreligious libertine”. Masons are to “let a man’s religion or mode of worship be what it may… provided he believes in the glorious architect of heaven and earth,” They are advised that “by the purity of their own conduct, to demonstrate the superior excellence of the faith they may profess". Thus masonry is the centre of union between good men and true.” At home and in his neighbourhood a mason is urged by the Antient Charges “to act as becomes a moral and wise man… avoiding of gluttony or drunkenness… to give honour to whom it is due, and avoid ill manners.2 That, and the three grand principles: “Brotherly love, Relief and Truth” summarise what the fraternity teaches and expects of every man who of his “own free will and accord 3" submits to its dictates.

An essential need of a mason is his inalienable belief in the Supreme Being, God, Lord, Allah or Almighty. The term Islam, on the other hand, means submission to the Divine Will and Guidance of Allah and to follow the Divine Laws. The one who follows the divine Laws is called a Muslim. It therefore must follow that both Islam and masonry have existed from time immemorial and risen from the same roots. For this reason, King or Nabi (meaning prophet) Solomon is believed to have been a Muslim. I will shortly review Surah No. 27, Al Naml, of the Holy Quran, to explain this point of view.

In this context, however, we should also reflect on the Charge delivered to the initiate of masonry, which at one point states: “As a Freemason, let me recommend to your most serious contemplation the VSL4 , charging you to consider it as the unerring standard of truth and justice and to regulate your actions by the divine precepts it contains. Therein you will be taught the important duties you owe to God, to your neighbour and yourself. To God, by never mentioning His name but with that awe and reverence which are due from the creature to his Creator, by imploring His aid in all your lawful undertakings, and by looking up to Him in every emergency for comfort and support. To your neighbour, by rendering him every kind office which justice or mercy may require, by relieving his necessities and soothing his afflictions, and by doing to him as in similar cases you would wish he would do to you. 5 Evidently, masonry seeks only to reaffirm whatever faith a Brother holds, be it Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism etc. except, if he should be an atheist, and in which case he cannot be accepted as a mason.

Prophet Mohd was bestowed prophethood at the age of 40. One of the first decrees he promulgated was to inform the business community to use the same set of scales when conducting business transactions. In those days, traders used two sets of scales: one for buying & the other for selling. The prophet abolished that system, citing unscrupulous business dealings. In the same way the masonic Charge after Initiation mentions…”and by doing to him in similar cases you would wish he would do to you.” Or, as in one of our working tools explanation: “Thus by square conduct, level steps and upright intentions we hope to ascend 6 …”.

Allah in Islam has 100 beautiful names, and this cluster of names is called Asmaul Husna. They are His Divine attributes like All knowing, All Powerful, The Creator, The Cherisher, The Just, The Kind & Forgiving, All Seeing etc. Similarly, the masons refer to Allah by His various attributes too such as: TGAOTU, TGGOTU, TMH, TTALGMH, TGOOTU, TSCOTU and so on. Also, Allah can be beseeched by: “Ya HoVa”, the One and Only or “La Ilaha Il Lal Lah”, None but Allah, or as in the Chapter: The Tetragammaton or TTALGMH or El Elohe (Lord God).

For the Muslim masons, the Holy Quran is one of the three Emblematical Lights in masonry. It is referred to as the VSL. The former mentions all the Prophets, whom Allah sent, 124,000 in all, to different countries and peoples of the world from time to time, beginning with Adam and ending with Mohamed. The Main Prophets identified are Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohamed. All are said to have performed miracles. The Quran was Mohamed’s miracle, it being the Words of Allah, which were carried by Angel Gibrael (Gabriel) for promulgation to the world by Mohamed. Again, just as the masons are encouraged to memorise the rituals for the better understanding of the messages enshrined in them, the Muslims consider it their duty to memorise parts of the Quran that are extensively used in the rituals of prayers, which for most, like the old English in the masonic rituals, is in an unfamiliar language. A person who memorizes the entire Quran is highly respected and is called a Hafiz. Not unlike our masonic ritualists, who are held in high regard in the fraternity.

Prophet Abraham, or Ibrahim, was the Patriarch and he was the first to build the Kaba in Mecca. As I had said earlier, Prophet Abraham (Ibrahim), Prophet Moses (Musa) and Prophet Jesus (Esa) had performed miracles. Nabi Esa, or Prophet Jesus, had performed the most number of miracles. Nabi Esa’s first miracle, as mentioned in the Holy Quran, was when Miriam (Mary) entered the chamber with her child in her arms. The Elders chided her, saying: “Hey Miriam, what have you brought?” In response, Mariam pointed at the Baby – indicating that the question be put to the Baby instead – when He (Esa) answered: “Do not scold my Mother, she has done no wrong. I am the Nabi Esa 7.

I have endeavoured so far to explain that both Islam and masonry have the same root, neither contradicting the other nor can either be identified reasonably as Zionists. Let me now give you a little insight into Islam, and more particularly its sectarian developments, along with some information on my own sect. The latter, because it appears to be historically connected to the scriptures adopted by masonry.

As I have already stated, Prophet Mohammed’s (pbuh) most important miracle was the Holy Quran. Every word in the Quran is the word of Allah (swt). The Quran is divided into 114 Chapters called Surah. Each Surah, except for one, begins with “Bismillah Hir Rah Ma Nir Rahim” (BHRMNR) in praise of Allah, meaning: “In The Name of Allah The Most Gracious The Most Merciful.” But the Surah No.9, Al Tawbah or Repentance, does not begin with BHRMNR. It has been speculated to be the continuation of Surah No 8. These words appear twice, however, in Chapter No.27 to make up the BHRMNR appearing 114 times in the Holy Quran, once in the usual manner at the beginning of the Surah and again in the letter within, in which Nabi Suleiman (King Solomon) wrote to Queen Bilqis, the queen of Sheba, inviting her to accept Islam, that is to follow Divine Laws. He had started his letter with the words BHRMNR, as it has always been so done by a Muslim. It lends weight to the belief that the Grand Master of masons was also an ancient Muslim! This Surah No.27 is called, Al Naml, or “The Ant”. Queen Bilqis reigned over a powerful empire in Yemen and her headquarters were in Hadhramaut, 20 miles North of Sana (Capital of Yemen).

The first Chapter in the Holy Quran is called Surah Fatihah, also known as Hamd, meaning praise of Allah. Like every book, this first Surah acts as an introduction to the Quran. This Chapter has seven verses and is used extensively at every Majlis or Meeting or in functions like: Wedding, Divorce, Death Anniversary and Burial Ceremony. It is recited in the “Five Times Prayers” and “Supplications” as well. This Surah is:

  1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
  2. Praise be to Allah The Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds;
  3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
  4. Master of the Day of Judgement.
  5. Thee do we worship, And Thine aid we seek.
  6. Show us the straight way,
  7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, Those whose (portion) Is not wrath, And who go not astray.

The practice merits comparison with the masonic rituals of saying a prayer or grace to TMH before and after every significant masonic event.

Though all the Muslims believe in the One and Only Allah and the same Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and the one unabridged Holy Quran, they are divided into several sects. The two main sects are the Sunni and the Shi’a. But, there are many other sub sects or groups. Again, not unlike the many Grand Lodges and rituals in masonry.

Sunnis consider 1st) Hazrat Abu Baker, 2nd) Hazrat Omar, 3rd) Hazrat Osman, and 4th) Hazrat Ali as successors of Prophet Mohammed and were based in Medina. They are recognised as Khalifas.

Shi’as, on other hand, regard Ali Ibne Abi Talib, the son-in-law & cousin of Prophet Mohammed, as the successor and Khalifa. After Ali, the Shi’as followed Imam Hassan and then Hussein; and so the reign from their base in Kufa in District Najaf, Iraq, was passed from father to son. The father designated one of his sons as his successor. The Shi’as are also called Imamiyas or the followers of Imam.

Taking Ali as the first Imam, the seventh Imam was Ismail and the 14th was Moez. The 21st, Taiyeb was the last of the Fatimid Imams, being the progeny of Ali / Fatema. Fatimid Imams ruled North Africa including Egypt and Sudan for two centuries 8 . Imam Moez founded the Al Azhar University in Cairo, which is still in existence. Recently the Imam or Dean or Mufti of Al Hazar University, Imam Mohammed Tantavi had visited Singapore.

Imam Taiyeb, the last of the historically important Fatimid Imams, instructed Queen Arwa (Arabic name: Hurratul Malika) to appoint several Syednas, or Chairmen, to carry on the Dawah or Mission in different parts of the world. Queen Arwa was the ruler from the same country, Yemen, and the same seat of Learning and at the same town of Hadhramaut as Queen Bilqis, the Queen of Sheba or Saba. Queen Arwa appointed the 1st Syedna, Syedna Zoeb, to carry on the Mission in Yemen, Hind (India) 9 , & Sind (Pakistan) 10 . Each Syedna nominates his successor. Today, the 52nd Syedna is His Holiness Dr. Abul Quaid Johar Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb tus. I belong to this sect, which is known as “Mustalian Taiyebi Sect of Dawoodi Bohras”. Our Community is about 1.2 Million spread out in all parts of the world. We follow the Mission as instructed by Imam Taiyeb. The affairs of the community are conducted by the joint rule of three known as the Syedna, Mazoon and Mukasir. These three rulers may be compared, though with significant differences, with the Principals of an RAC in the Craft: Syedna as the First Principal; Mazoon as the Second Principal and Mukasir as the Third Principal.

Then we have huzzoorias, dewans etc who are the junior officers and may be compared with the Scribes, Sojourners etc. of an RAC. There are no elections. The Syedna is nominated by his predecessor to assume office after the latter’s death and then the new Syedna appoints all his officers.

Some of the Shi’a sects, including my own sub-sect, instead of the usual five pillars11 of Islam, have Seven Pillars, the two additional ones being:

  1. The Oath of Allegiance to Succession and
  2. The Taharat — meaning cleanliness – Outward and Inner leading to Hereafter 12 .

Anyone born in a Bohra family is not recognized a Bohra until he or she is INITIATED, just like the Initiation in masonry, though the ceremonies are not comparable. The initiate must be of mature age, however, generally 13/14 years for a girl and 14/16 for a boy, and that he or she must come of his own free will. No coercion or pressure from the parents is permissible. This Initiation Ceremony is known as MISAQ.

The parents present him/her to the Syedna or his representative called Aamil, after a Bath and Wuzu, not symbolically washing his feet as in some of our masonic rituals. The ceremony of Misaq takes about one hour when the principles peculiar to the sect are communicated. It is stressed that the knowledge of the ceremony is confined within the community, just as the so-called secrets of the Craft. Then the oath of recognition and acceptance of: the Unseen; the Supreme Being that is Allah; Heaven; Hell; the Angels; the Holy Books; the Prophets; Prophet Mohammed; Ali and his Progeny and finally, the present Syedna. Then a charge is given, as in the Craft first Degree mentioned earlier, for Truth, Unity and Love of Brotherhood. To read the Quran very regularly and slowly, and with understanding, as the rituals in the Craft, and to follow the precepts laid down. To attend, if possible, the Mosque for Prayers and to answer any calls made by the Aamil, the representative... just as masons are extolled to answer the lawful summons and to attend all meetings. And finally, to follow the Shariyah, meaning the 7 Pillars, which are Walayat (Succession), Taharat ( Cleanliness), Salaat (Prayers), Zakat (Charity), Haj (Pilgrimage), Saum (Fasting), and Jihad (Resistance to injustice).

Here, let me digress to refer to: “seven or more to make a perfect Lodge” 13 . The Emulation rituals suggest that the number alludes “to seven liberal Arts and Sciences” that a mason is required to research to progress in life, namely: “Grammar, Rhetoric, Logic, Arithmetic, Geometry, Music and Astronomy”. Esoterically, the numbers, 3, 5 and 7 may be said to allude to the harmony of body, soul and spirit of a Lodge represented by the JW, SW and the Master respectively; the five representing the five senses namely, sight, hearing, smell, feel and taste, which together with instinct and faith of man in the Supreme Being make seven. The masonic “five points of fellowship” is another example of the five duties pledged to assist a brother. These are not similar but certainly complementary. In Islam too, the embracing of a Muslim brother, breast to breast, has a similar meaning, both in happiness & in sorrow.

Prayers in Islam have two parts. The first part is always the same, with a ritual to stand, kneel, prostrate and sit. This ritual is called Selaat, and must be said in Arabic and must be from memory, as in the Craft, and facing the Kaba; the East in the Craft. The 2nd part of the prayers is called the Dua or supplications, which can be said in ones mother tongue. After Every Dua all the people say, Amin, so mote it be! After every prayer and Dua, there follows a handshake and the hand must be pulled asunder, as in some masonic rituals, in a pledge to remain a brother “until death do us part, to meet in the Hereafter”.

Majlis are meetings, generally held in the Mosque like our temple or in an adjoining hall or room. Every meeting or any function begins with a Dua seeking Gods Grace, which called Hamd, as I have mentioned earlier. And every meeting ends with a Dua for favours received from the Almighty for having marked well. The practice must sound familiar to every mason. Doors to a Majlis are never closed, but latecomers make a Tasleem or bow at the entrance, as a mason does on entry into an open Chapter, and on receiving a nod from the presiding Aamil takes his appointed place. Brotherhood is observed during the Five Prayers, when all fall in line behind the Imam who leads the Selaat; The Ritual.

Women sit in the upper Hall of the Mosque, segregated from the men. Brotherhood is also observed at the Festive board where there is no protocol. The diners sit in groups of eight persons on the floor in a circle at a Safra (tablecloth), and a thal (big dish about three and a half feet in diameter). The host, with his helpers, wash the guests’ hands with a small basin and pitcher. After the guests have settled down, the host proclaims BHRMNR … to commence service. One of the eight in each circle presents a small dish of salt and each one takes a pinch. The same is repeated after the group has finished the meal. The meal is concluded with a thanks-giving prayer to Allah.

The significance of the salt is similar to that in Consecration and some other masonic ceremonies. The prayer, before and after a meal, is also practiced in masonry.

My Community follows the lunar calendar where all the important dates are marked on the calendar. This is similar to the masonic calendar. Thus, all major events like New Year, Muharram, Birthdays of Prophet Mohammed and the current Syedna and death anniversaries of martyrs, and other major events are marked. Except for death and burial ceremonies, no other social functions are permitted to be held on those specific dates in the calendar. Similarly, masons too should perhaps avoid conflicts between Craft meetings and social activities, neither being less important.

Incidentally, a Good Standing Certificate is required for undertaking ceremonies like Wedding, Misaq, and Haj Pilgrimage. A Safai Chitthi (Gujarati for Clearance certificate) is needed to prove that all dues to the community have been settled for before the event. Similar to the masonic practice of receiving a stranger or a joining brother!

Brethren, I have tried to bring to your attention an issue that is close to my heart. In my pursuit to strictly conform to the Islamic principles and practices, I have never found my masonic duties to be in conflict or a hindrance. On the contrary, I have found my masonic duties to be complementary and in harmony with those of Islam. In this District, which is set in a population comprising more than half who are followers of Islam, I close with a fervent and humble hope that this paper may in a small way help to alleviate whatever prevailing distrust that may be extant among my fellow Muslin brethren towards our Craft.

Thank you!

References:

  1. Surah 27: Al Naml.
  2. Antient Charges – Concerning God & Religion and Of Behaviour.
  3. A part of every obligation undertaken by a mason.
  4. The Holy Quran, as far as the followers of Islam are concerned.
  5. Charge after Initiation – Revised Emulation ritual.
  6. Emulation 2nd Degree W/T.
  7. Surah No 19, Sec 2.
  8. “The Middle East – A brief History of The Last 2,000 Years” by Bernard Lewis – pp 83-84.
  9. Hind, referred to that part of the Indian sub-continent, which was to the east of the Indus river.
  10. The Indus river basin, a part of the Indian sub-continent, now Pakistan, which came about only in 1947.
  11. Prayers, Charity, Pilgrimage, Fasting and Resistance to injustice.
  12. Taharat is included in the prayers.
  13. Second Degree Tracing Board.


 

Main Index Page | Alphabetical Index | What is New | Papers of Eminent Masonic Scholars | Indice Saggi in Italiano
Index des Essais en Langue Française | Índices Monografias em Português | Índice de Planchas Masonicas en Español


visitor/s currently on the page.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: masonry; secretsects
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-120 next last
To: Redleg Duke
[The policy of the Craft to "make good men better", ]
 
Who defines good?
 
Is the definition of good the same for Christian, Muslim, and Communist?
 
 
 
 

51 posted on 10/10/2007 12:47:06 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: VxH

> Which parts do you find objectionable?

I didn’t say I found it objectionable. I said I found it to be the writings of a lunatic.

What I *do* find objectionable is that Albert Pike is constantly quoted at Freemasons by non-Freemasons as being the Difinitive view on Freemasonry. The Craft doesn’t work like that. Naturally, Pike was entitled to his opinions. I am not obliged to share his views as if they were Holy Writ. I’m certainly not prepared to defend them as Definitive.


52 posted on 10/10/2007 12:49:17 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghill mi do dhuine. Fg am bealach.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: DieHard the Hunter
[Except, of course, Freemasonry is not a religion,]
 
I didn't say it was a religion.
 
Seems to me that "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"   is a more atheistic than religious statement.  
 
If there is no objective Dogma, as you have indicated: 
 
"there is no Dogma, and thus no requirement to observe anybody’s views as Holy Writ"
 
then that is an awful lot like saying:    "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law".
 
 
C.S. Lewis referred to this as "The Poison of Subjectivism".  His essay The Inner Ring brings Masonry to mind, FWIW.

53 posted on 10/10/2007 1:14:44 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: DieHard the Hunter
[I said I found it to be the writings of a lunatic.]
 
Which part?
 
Even lunatics can be historically correct.

54 posted on 10/10/2007 1:17:54 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: VxH

The Craft. I am hoping you are a member and not a basher. If the latter, don’t bother replying. I am busy giving my cat a bath.


55 posted on 10/10/2007 4:14:22 PM PDT by Redleg Duke ("All gave some, and some gave all!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: VxH

Go back and tell the Pope, “No sale, Poppa!”


56 posted on 10/10/2007 4:15:49 PM PDT by Redleg Duke ("All gave some, and some gave all!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: VxH
Pike attempts to explain the historic progression of man's understanding and relationship to deity from generation to generation, from the ridiculous to the sublime. Some folk who read M & D get caught up in a belief that Freemasonry practices every form of psycho/religious/spiritual/mystical exercises found in the book. Not so. It's the history of religion, the main points of which are preserved in the pageantry of the Scottish Rite degrees.

Concerning Greek myths, or whatever, it wouldn't surprise me to see a correspondence between Freemasonry and any other belief system or religion, as there should be a common denominator found in all of them, the teaching of morals. Freemasonry just happens to add a truth that is not found in some religions . . the brotherhood of man under the Fatherhood of God -- and establishes an environment to practice it, to the consternation of its detractors.

57 posted on 10/10/2007 5:38:33 PM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Redleg Duke
 
[I am busy giving my cat a bath.]
 
Machine or hand wash?
 
Worked with a guy who claimed he had trapped all the cats in his neighborhood and turned them over to the dog pound.   Odd fellow.  Always talking about the smell of burning feathers....  but I digress.
 
[The Craft]
 
Ok, so what's the definition of good?  How can we tell a good man from a bad one?
 

58 posted on 10/10/2007 5:53:05 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: VxH
I would submit that this whole discussion could be summed up by reading Rudyard Kipling's THE MOTHER LODGE.

Freemasonry is the worlds greatest fraternity, not a religion, and strives for the good of mankind.

59 posted on 10/10/2007 5:59:17 PM PDT by oldtimer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: oldtimer
Most excellent!

THE MOTHER LODGE

60 posted on 10/10/2007 6:14:26 PM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound
First of all, thank you for discussing this.
 
[Not so. It's the history of religion]
 
That's what I thought.  Thanks.
 
[Concerning Greek myths, or whatever,]
 
The Amphictyonic League was the council that managed Greek religious temples - not ascribing to any one religion but overseeing them all.    It seems Freemasonry occupies a similar niche.
 
[the brotherhood of man under the Fatherhood of God]
 
Seems noble.  Why all the secrecy? 

61 posted on 10/10/2007 6:22:25 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: VxH
"Seems noble. Why all the secrecy?"

(A) To insure as best we can that a candidate gets the full effect and benefit of going through the degrees. Think, surprise birthday party. Or, don't you hate it when somebody tells you the ending of a movie you are planning to see?

(B) There was a time in history when certain religious leaders thought it worthy of death for someone to freely associate with anyone they wanted to, thinking it was blasphemy to stray from the flock and its group-think.

(C) These days, the only thing secret about Freemasonry are the passes and signs of recognition. The complete ritual can be found in public libraries, or even on the internet.

(D) The Craft attempts to preserve the flavor of the ritual, to keep it from being changed in honor and recognition of those freedom-lovers of yesteryear who were persecuted and slain because they strayed from the flock of groupthink. The secrets practiced by the Craft during those periods were necessary not only for their physical survival, but for the survival of the right to pursue truth to its outer limits apart from a doctrine which institutionalized and limited truth.

I don't understand all the pre-occupation some folks have with trying to abolish Freemasonry, or to attribute to it many false teachings in order to prevent anyone from joining. Makes you wonder what the detractors really fear about Freemasonry? Difficult to believe that groupthink and bigotry still exists in the hallways of truth during this age of enlightenment.

62 posted on 10/10/2007 7:17:23 PM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: oldtimer
[the good of mankind]
 
Who gets to define "the good of mankind"? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

63 posted on 10/10/2007 7:19:41 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound
[(B) There was a time in history when certain religious leaders thought it worthy of death for someone to freely associate with anyone they wanted to, thinking it was blasphemy to stray from the flock and its group-think.]
 
Like the current behavior of Islamic fundamentalists in Saudi Arabia, for example?
 
[I don't understand all the pre-occupation some folks have with trying to abolish Freemasonry, or to attribute to it many false teachings in order to prevent anyone from joining.
 
Makes you wonder what the detractors really fear about Freemasonry?]
 
Maybe humans are naturally suspicious when they believe someone is keeping secrets from them. 
 
The perception of secrecy is especially vexing in American society where there is a constitutional separation of church and state - and freedom of religion.
 
How would you differentiate between the universal brotherhood of Freemasonry and the hierarchical collective mandates of communism? 
 
Kipling's Mother-Lodge would seem to indicate that Freemasonry places great importance on the right to be an individual.  What safeguards are there to prevent Freemasonry from being abused and used to consolidate power in the hands of an occult oligarchy?
 

64 posted on 10/10/2007 8:08:17 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: VxH
"Maybe humans are naturally suspicious when they believe someone is keeping secrets from them. "

Perhaps, but I think it's more a case of people wanting something for nothing. They want the secrets in this case, but not willing to pay the price of admission. Or they want to be recognized as worthy of receiving the information from a Mason without having to go through the degrees. Won't happen. We don't recruit. You have to ask. The only thing that might hinder you is if you don't have a belief in a Supreme Being. I think there are lodges for aetheists, but you'd have to go to France. That is where European Freemasonry split into two Grand Lodges. France opted for not having to profess a belief in deity. I haven't followed their progress since then, and and just guessing they still exist.

Yes, fundamentalism, of any stripe, seems to be the ones persecuting Freemasonry. Which I find strange, because I'm basically a Pentacostal fundamentalist myself. When I was asked 'in whom do I put my trust?' when I took my first degree I proclaimed loudly and clearly, "My Lord, Jesus Christ!" and was immediately told my faith was well-founded. From that moment on I had no fear about anything I might encounter in Freemasonry, even to this day.

"How would you differentiate between the universal brotherhood of Freemasonry and the hierarchical collective mandates of communism?"

Freemasonry encourages individualism and self-responsibility. Communism mandates group-think and teaches socialism with no moral absolutes. The state is 'god.'

"Kipling's Mother-Lodge would seem to indicate that Freemasonry places great importance on the right to be an individual. What safeguards are there to prevent Freemasonry from being abused and used to consolidate power in the hands of an occult oligarchy?

There is no central authority in Freemasonry. Each state has its own autonomy and rank and file Freemasons comprise the Grand Lodge leadership. Grand Lodge officers serve but one year and the chairs are rotated. As no one Lodge or Grand Lodge, or individual speaks for Freemasonry, I see no opportunity for Freemasonry to be co-opted. In a sense, everything is already 'cut and dried' and any lodge member is elibible to be elected Grand Master once they attain the credentials of past-master of a Lodge.

There are other Masonic-like organizations which have the word, 'Masonic' in their titles. That is a topic for another time, and one that should be more openly discussed, for the confusion non-Masons have is differentiating between the different Masonic bodies. Some of these bodies have given mainline Freemasonry a bad name.

65 posted on 10/10/2007 9:11:41 PM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound

[There are other Masonic-like organizations which have the word, 'Masonic' in their titles.]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head there - Masonic-like.   

The antics of Cecil Rhodes and his merry band of secret-society pirates come to mind:

Cecil Rhodes wrote a Confession of Faith in 1877. There he laid out his plan to bring the world under British rule and recapture the United States. He wrote:

"The idea gleaming and dancing before ones eyes like a will-o-the-wisp at last frames itself into a plan. Why should we not form a secret society with but one object, the furtherance of the British Empire, for the bringing of the whole uncivilized world under British rule, for the recovery of the United States, for the making [of] the Anglo-Saxon race but one Empire" . . . .[20]

20. Frederic Howe, The Confessions of a Reformer, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1925, pp. 291-292.

I wonder whether the Freemasons who wrote and implemented our Declaration of Independence would be amused - or outraged.


66 posted on 10/10/2007 11:19:52 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Traianus
Meant to ping you to all of my replies here. Thanks for changing the title. I didn't realize at first that this was your blogger page. The information that you posted is interesting. Bookmarked!

FRegards, Dave.

67 posted on 10/11/2007 7:44:11 AM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VxH

Albert Pike was a Scottish Rite mason, speaking for himself alone; it is not correct to infer that his beliefs are the beliefs of other masons -— especially York Rite Masons -— which is an exclusively Christian fraternity (albeit nondenominational).


68 posted on 10/11/2007 7:58:48 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Eastbound

Well said.


69 posted on 10/11/2007 8:15:07 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: VxH
"The antics of Cecil Rhodes and his merry band of secret-society pirates come to mind:. . ."

[snip]

"I wonder whether the Freemasons who wrote and implemented our Declaration of Independence would be amused - or outraged."

Had they known the precise methods the enemy would some day use to regain control, they would have added a few things to the Constitution, I'm sure. But even so, I thought the wording of the currency clause was sufficient to ward off the evils of converting our currency. Even at this late date I am astounded at how easy it was for Roosevelt, et al, to put us back in bondage -- sapping our wealth and saddling us with an unpayable debt. Fait accompli? Looks like they'll be repeating the scam in the near future, trading the FRN system for the Amero.

And with the move towards a a North American Union, the coup de grace?

70 posted on 10/11/2007 8:29:09 AM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: TheThirdRuffian

Thank you!


71 posted on 10/11/2007 8:35:54 AM PDT by Eastbound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: TheThirdRuffian
[Albert Pike was a Scottish Rite mason, speaking for himself alone; it is not correct to infer that his beliefs are the beliefs of other masons -— especially York Rite Masons -— which is an exclusively Christian fraternity (albeit nondenominational).]
 
Thanks for clarifying that.   Which Rite is Joseph Smith thought to have borrowed from when he fabricated Mormonism?  I'm assuming it was  Pike's Scottish right - is that correct?

72 posted on 10/11/2007 9:01:45 AM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: VxH

No, Smith simply took parts of the EA, Fellowcraft, and master mason Blue Lodge, and some of the “capitular” masonry -— Mark Master, it seems to me — and mushed them together.

This makes sense, in that, back in the day, all Blue Lodges were these four degrees — now the Mark Master is moved over to the York Rite.

(The first 6 or so degrees in the York Rite are parables about the 1st and 2nd temple, then move to Christ, and then to guarding Christiandom until such time as Christ returns.)


73 posted on 10/11/2007 9:10:15 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Traianus
I’ve noticed that American muslims, masons, and liberals all tend to wear socks in the winter. Whenever you see someone wearing socks in the winter, be very very cautious.
74 posted on 10/12/2007 8:35:51 AM PDT by shuckmaster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mnehrling

The skull and cross bones are the marine battle flag of the Knights Templar. These have been an order of York Rite Masonry for many centuries. Most Knights Templar were burned at the stake by the church for silly reasons in the 14th century. The survivors found refuge in England. The skull and cross bones ravaged catholic shipping for some time thereafter.

Yes the jolly roger is a masonic symbol.

Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, and Justice.

Thanks.


75 posted on 10/13/2007 8:55:15 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: uglybiker

Thanks for pinging me.


76 posted on 10/13/2007 8:58:01 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: VxH

>> Is the definition of good the same for Christian, Muslim, and Communist?

Do you realize that communist practices are found in most families and even in Jesus’ inner circle of apostles? Now, I don’t condone communist government, but if I didn’t share the wealth at all, then society would be worse off - that’s pure and simple.

>> Who defines good?

The question is improperly put. Rather ask, how will we know if something is good? The answer is found in the innermost recesses of the heart, and only by those who are pure at heart. One can ascertain whether one is pure at heart by observing whether ones actions increase others hardships and make others sad or not - deep inside all will know the truth about that.

We as an organization contribute millions each day to unarguably worthy causes such as free-of-charge burn units, dislexic childrens learning centers, diabetic childrens camps, special olympics, etc, etc, etc. We know these things we do to be good. Anyone who should argue that would certainly be blinded with ambition.

Thanks.


77 posted on 10/14/2007 7:43:12 AM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: a_Turk
[One can ascertain whether one is pure at heart by observing whether ones actions increase others hardships and make others sad or not - deep inside all will know the truth about that.]
 
Does Turkish incursion into Iraq make the Kurds sad?

78 posted on 10/17/2007 5:09:49 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: a_Turk

[Do you realize that communist practices are found in most families and even in Jesus’ inner circle of apostles?]

I realize that spiritually inspired altruism and government mandated wealth redistribution are two very different things. Separation of church and state is a “good” thing.


79 posted on 10/18/2007 8:24:45 AM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: VxH

>> Does Turkish incursion into Iraq make the Kurds sad?

I suppose perhaps. But then maybe the nuke flashed over Hiroshima too suddenly to make an of those zipper head folks over there sad... Which leaves you off the hook.


80 posted on 10/22/2007 4:47:50 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: a_Turk

[I suppose perhaps]

Which side believes, in their heart, that they are right?

Is there a lodge in Kurdistan?


81 posted on 10/22/2007 8:11:44 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: VxH

>> Which side believes, in their heart, that they are right?

This is not the topic of this thread. Why not post a suitable article and ping me.

To answer your question here: those who bomb grade schools, execute school teachers, bomb department stores, and commit all sorts of other terror attacks may induce themselves to think they are good - but deep inside their evil quietly nags them.

Anyway - you seem smart enough to blur the lines between Kurds and the PKK - but you know it’s wrong to do so and that you are being a bad VxH for it. Don’t allow foreign entanglments play you like a hand puppet. They’ll always leave you high and dry in the end.


82 posted on 10/23/2007 4:19:09 AM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: a_Turk
[Anyway - you seem smart enough to blur the lines between Kurds and the PKK - but you know it’s wrong to do so and that you are being a bad VxH for it. ]

"One Man's Terrorist Is Another Man's Freedom Fighter"
It's an appropriate illustration of the subjective nature of "good".
 
Witness Nazi Germany, where an entire nation believed in the "good" of implementing the master race concept.

Witness California SB 777
 
 
Back on topic... can one be a "good" Muslim and not desire sharia law?
 
Tyranny of the majority.

83 posted on 10/23/2007 8:00:33 AM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: VxH

blah


84 posted on 10/23/2007 5:55:04 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: a_Turk
[those who bomb grade schools, execute school teachers, bomb department stores, and commit all sorts of other terror attacks ]
 
I wasn't aware that the PKK had engaged in this kind of activity.  Can you document your allegations?

Isn't the PKK a Marxist Communist organization?
 
 
[blah]
 
What about the potential combination of Marxism and Sharia law do you find "blah"?   I'd expect proponents of communism would find Sharia-Marxism quite exciting.
 
If the majority of residents in Kurdistan subscribed to this ideology, would that make it "good"?

85 posted on 10/25/2007 8:17:20 AM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Traianus

So George Washington is now Muslim?


86 posted on 10/25/2007 8:18:33 AM PDT by sono (Remember when Health Insurance was a Carry Permit?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VxH

>> I wasn’t aware that the PKK had engaged in this kind of activity.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C1iG7chiTGM

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/968848/posts

Search google for “forgotten fotographs pkk”

>> I’d expect proponents of communism would find Sharia-Marxism quite exciting.

That wouldn’t be me.


87 posted on 10/26/2007 5:00:58 AM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: VxH
Does Turkish incursion into Iraq make the Kurds sad?

The problem is more the Kurdish incursions into Turkey.

88 posted on 10/26/2007 5:06:53 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Dems want to rob from the poor to give to the rich)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7; a_Turk

[The problem is more the Kurdish incursions into Turkey.]

Maybe everyone involved would do well to ignore Henry Kissinger and show respect for national sovereignty.

The PKK should be dealt with via the authority of the Iraqi government.

 


89 posted on 10/28/2007 12:28:36 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: VxH
The PKK should be dealt with via the authority of the Iraqi government.

Suppose it were Mexicans crossing our border to commit acts of terrorism?

90 posted on 10/28/2007 7:04:10 PM PDT by Tribune7 (Dems want to rob from the poor to give to the rich)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7

[Suppose it were Mexicans crossing our border to commit acts of terrorism?]

Should the U.S.A. send troops into Mexico without the cooperation or support of the Mexican government?

Has Turkey attempted to enlist the cooperation and support of the Iraqi government?


91 posted on 10/28/2007 10:21:10 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: VxH
Should the U.S.A. send troops into Mexico without the cooperation or support of the Mexican government?

If Mexico was unwilling to cooperate, yes, absolutely.

W/regard to Turkey and Iraq, it does not appear that they have sent troops over the border in a significant manner, if at all. As I understand it, they are merely threatening/preparing to do so.

Hopefully, we (and the Iraqi governement) are cooperating with Turkey w/regard to the PKK.

The PKK are the bad guys. Turkey is the good guy.

92 posted on 10/29/2007 5:19:07 AM PDT by Tribune7 (Dems want to rob from the poor to give to the rich)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7
[If Mexico was unwilling to cooperate, yes, absolutely.]
 
Leads to an interesting question:  should states be held accountable for the actions of their citizens?
 
Seems to me that Mexico should be held accountable for the illegal immigration of its citizens.
 
Likewise, Iraq should be held accountable for the illegal actions of its citizens, who happen to be members of the PKK.  I also wonder if the PKK Marxists aren't also a threat to the commercial activities now underway in Iraqi Kurdistan.  
 
[Turkey is the good guy.]
 
Turkey has never wanted an independent Kurdistan.  They should stay the hell out of Iraq and work with the governments of Iraq and the US to resolve the  situation.
 
 

93 posted on 10/29/2007 8:38:04 AM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: VxH; Tribune7
The U.S. military commander in northern Iraq said yesterday he plans to do "absolutely nothing" to counter Kurdish rebels who are staging deadly cross-border attacks into neighboring Turkey.

It's heads on pikes.
94 posted on 10/29/2007 7:59:21 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: Quix

ping


95 posted on 10/29/2007 8:09:10 PM PDT by Cvengr (Every believer is a grenade. Arrogance is the grenade pin. Pull the pin and fragment your life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cvengr

THANKS.

I think the doc has merit.

But I get sooooo weary of the Masons thing. And, it kind of feels like poking a stick at the decaying carcass of a skunk.

If there’s a particular post or part you’d like me to respond to, please say so. Otherwise, I’ll probably leave decaying skunks alone for my own comfort.


96 posted on 10/30/2007 4:56:26 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: a_Turk
Dealing with the PKK is not the responsibility of the U.S. military. Contrary to popular belief, the U.S. military is not the world's police force.

Iraq is a sovereign nation.

If there are criminals in Iraq then it’s the responsibility of the Iraqi police and legal system to deal with them.

The Turks should be working with the Government of Iraq to resolve the situation.

97 posted on 10/30/2007 8:34:22 AM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: VxH
>>The Turks should be working with the Government of Iraq to resolve the situation.

Agreed. And so they have for the past three years. Read here and here.
98 posted on 10/30/2007 5:11:43 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 97 | View Replies]

To: a_Turk
The apparently irreconcilable nature of the conflict between the Turks and the Kurds castes a rather doubtful shadow on your statement:
Rather ask, how will we know if something is good? The answer is found in the innermost recesses of the heart, and only by those who are pure at heart. One can ascertain whether one is pure at heart by observing whether ones actions increase others hardships and make others sad or not - deep inside all will know the truth about that.
 
The Kurds are right, and they know it.   The Turks are right, and they also know it.

Not quite blackwhite.

99 posted on 10/30/2007 5:33:45 PM PDT by VxH (One if by Land, Two if by Sea, and Three if by Wire Transfer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: VxH
Lumping all Kurds together is a fallacy. That's where you get confused. Did you check out that utube clip? Those Kurds of the PKK are not right for killing kids. Deep inside their heart of hearts they know. But the regular Kurd is just fine. No different than you and me. They are my brothers and sisters and I would go all the way to hell and back for them.


A Turkish soldier in a tank jokes with schoolboys during the Republic Day celebrations in Yuksekova, in the Hakkari province, near the Turkish-Iraqi-Iranian border, southeastern Turkey, Monday, Oct. 29, 2007. Turkish troops trapped a group of about 100 separatist Kurdish rebels in a rugged region close to Turkey's border with Iraq, after blocking all escape routes across the frontier, Turkey's state-run news agency reported Monday. (AP Photo/Ibrahim Usta)
100 posted on 10/30/2007 6:07:51 PM PDT by a_Turk (Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, Justice, Comitas, Firmitas, Gravitas, Humanitas, Industria..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 99 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-120 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson