Not THIS conservative.
Not now; not EVER.
Posted on 03/13/2008 8:08:11 AM PDT by TBP
Over the past several months, I have been privileged to attend (and sometimes endure) several significant gatherings of a variety of conservatives. Some of the meetings were large; others were small. The meetings sometimes featured mostly grassroots activists and sometimes very high-profile and notable conservative icons. In some of these meetings, I was allowed a platform to speak; in others, I was merely a spectator. In most of the meetings, there was a large percentage of Christian conservatives present. The meetings occurred in locations all over the country.
After witnessing the philosophizing, postulating, and pontificating of the various conservative speakers (or those to whom I spoke in private conversation), I am left with the very profound and distinct impression that the so-called conservative movement is dead. It is not dying: it is dead. Totally and thoroughly dead.
Oh, the spokesmen (and women) of the various conservative organizations will strongly argue that the conservative movement is as alive and vibrant as ever. They are either delusional or in denial. The truth is, there is no conservative movement in America today.
Most conservatives--even Christian conservatives--have embraced philosophies and ideals that are antithetical to genuine conservatism. In fact, my experience with these people leads me to the conclusion that today's conservatives do not even know what true conservatism is--or was.
For example, I could not tell you how many times I have listened as speaker after speaker praised and promoted the candidacy of the "conservative" John McCain. These are the same people, mind you, that in 2004 properly identified McCain as the conservative phony that he was--and still is. Many of the same conservative organizations that rejected and repudiated McCain's 2004 candidacy now boldly extol its virtues. But it is not John McCain that has changed: it is today's conservatives.
The reason for this reversal of "convictions" is that this time John McCain is the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee. And if today's conservatives believe in anything, they believe in the Republican Party. They might turn their backs on their best friends; they might forsake their pastor and church; they might even divorce their wife or husband; but, one thing they will not do is forsake the Republican Party. This rabid devotion to the GOP has made mincemeat out of a once-great movement.
Of course, there are modern-day prophets. Men such as Alan Keyes, Judge Roy Moore, and Ron Paul, for example. For the most part, however, America's conservatives--including Christian conservatives--have dismissed these "voices in the wilderness" with either utter contempt or wholesale indifference. These prophets are about as welcome as an outbreak of influenza.
Even as a pastor, I am not immune to the odious attitudes and actions of Christian brethren. I have seen people I thought were my closest friends--people I have helped in untold ways--turn and walk away, without so much as a goodbye. I have watched as my own dear wife and children have been subjected to insults, tongue-lashings, and even obscene gestures by these "loving" Christian brothers and sisters. I have witnessed my preacher brethren refuse to even "reason together" over the omnipresent threats to our liberty and independence.
The beginning of the end came when Christian conservatives began idolizing President George W. Bush. They have done this to the point that they have come to accept just about any and all abuses against the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration principles, and even our very way of life. Furthermore, they have become robotic foot soldiers for universal and everlasting war. At the same time, however, they see no harm in the decimation of individual liberties, as long as it is a Republican who is stealing them. But these same Christians will cry and wail--to the point of almost cutting themselves--against the thought of a Democrat doing the same thing. But, pray tell me, since when does it matter what the brand name is on the tyrant's sword? Are not our liberties just as dead?
But look at how our modern prophets have been treated. Alan Keyes has been forcibly removed from debate platforms, only to be released in remote, crime infested neighborhoods at night by Republican Party operatives. Roy Moore was lampooned and utterly destroyed by Republican Party operatives (including those within George W. Bush's White House) in his attempt to become Alabama's governor. And, in his recent Presidential campaign, Ron Paul has been subjected to the most insidious attacks by Republican Party operatives that I have ever witnessed.
Regardless of how the Republican Party has compromised, capitulated, and castrated genuine conservative principles, conservatives--including Christian conservatives--continue to refer to the GOP as "God's Own Party," and other such nonsense. In fact, the current lapdog performance of modern conservatives to the candidacy of John McCain demonstrates just how far down the road of destruction they will go in order to grovel before the Republican Party.
National Right to Life even had the gall to say that it is "grateful" for John McCain's "strong pro-life" record. What balderdash! McCain has repeatedly voted to spend Title X tax dollars to underwrite the nation's largest abortion provider, Planned Parenthood. He publicly supports killing unborn babies conceived via rape or incest. And he continues to lie to the American people about killing babies "to save the life of the mother," which almost any OB/GYN doctor will tell you almost NEVER occurs. According to the OB/GYN physicians that I have spoken to, the only pregnancies that pose a legitimate health risk to the mother are those where the unborn baby has already perished.
How can National Right to Life--an organization that once vociferously opposed Senator McCain--now compromise the life issue in such an egregious manner and support the corrupt candidacy of John McCain? I'll tell you how: NRL is bought and paid for by Republican donors. And that is the problem with the vast majority of our "conservative" organizations today. As the old saying goes, "He who pays the piper calls the tune."
In fact, I will say it straight out: there is no hope for America within today's conservative--even Christian conservative--movement. None. Zero. Zilch.
The closest movement to reclaiming America's freedom and independence was the recent Presidential campaign of Congressman Ron Paul. With Congressman Paul effectively neutered and neutralized (by a hostile media and mercenary Republican hierarchy), the only hope is in America's churches and a burgeoning independent movement.
I only wish I could expect today's pastors and churches to stand in the gap for our nation. They have the power to thwart the forces of globalism, corporatism, elitism, and liberalism that are destroying America. So far, however, this has been nothing but wishful fantasy. Most of our beloved Christian leaders are as beholden to the same Republican donors as are the previously mentioned conservative organizations. And just as impotent.
That leaves The Constitution Party as the only political party with the courage and convictions to set the ship of state aright. With someone such as Judge Roy Moore at the helm, true Christians and constitutionalists would at least have an opportunity to vote for someone in November without being forced to hold their noses and surrender their principles.
After attending numerous meetings of conservative activists, I am more convinced than ever that, ultimately, the survival of liberty in America does not depend upon political parties, special interest groups, or corporations. In these United States of America, God has put the destiny of the country squarely in the hands of "We the people." It will not be conservatives or liberals, Republicans or Democrats, Christians or unbelievers that restore America. It will be individuals from all walks of life, all backgrounds, and all political persuasions who love liberty enough to fight to maintain it. Ultimately, of course, all nations--just like all individuals--must give an account to our Creator for how we protected the freedoms and liberties that He gave us. Right now, we are not doing a very good job.
We need to show some tough love nd say no to the Republican Party once in a while.
I’ve climbed the wall, crawled under the concertina wire and escaped the Grand Old Plantation.
Ping to read (again) later
From the title, I thought I would be totally hot after reading this, but all I can say, is overall, I agree with most of what Mr. Baldwin says.
Ron Paul a conservative? I think the problem is too many people don’t know what conservativism is any more.
People a lot of the time mistaken Big Government Social Conservatives for conservatives.
“say no to the Republican Party once in a while.”
This presidential election imho is not the time for me to say no because of SCOTUS. Whoever McCain nominates it has to be better than what the Dems would nominate.
The beginning of the end came when Christian conservatives began idolizing President George W. Bush.
And that is the painful truth. Bush has wrecked the conservative movement and turned the GOP into dem-lite.
I am feeling it. I have to totally agree with this.
Sad story.
Face it, we’re stuck with a two-party system, and yeah, the GOP is about as conservative as one of those cardboard TVs in the furniture store is real. But really, what can we do?
He does choose provocative titles. But I suppose that gets mor people to read what he says.
So is Pastor Baldwin a paid or unpaid staff member to Hillary Clinton?
Me too. Now what?
Not THIS conservative.
Not now; not EVER.
Ron Paul is most definitely a conservative. He was in fact the only Goldwater conservative in the field. But there is no room for small governement conservatives in the GOP tent. The GOP just wants their version of Big Government. It took a while but I finally came to the realization that I am NOT a Republican. I am a conservative and today they are two very different things.
“If today’s conservatives believe in anything, they believe in the Republican Party. They might turn their backs on their best friends; they might forsake their pastor and church; they might even divorce their wife or husband; but, one thing they will not do is forsake the Republican Party. This rabid devotion to the GOP has made mincemeat out of a once-great movement.”
Ah power trumps principle every time.
I'll have to disagree. Blacks get a great deal from the Democrats. The lower classes get welfare and food stamps, whereas the upper classes get quotas in schools and the workplace.
Conservatives get something from Republicans they cannot get from the current incarnation of the Democratic party - some conservative legislation and - more importantly - at least an attempt at pushing back against liberal legislation. This is why Bill Buckley always went for the most conservative candidate who can win. Don't assume that everyone is as independent-minded or as conservative as you are. A lot of voters want nothing more than to suck at the teat of the welfare state. The New Deal brought into effect Social Security - a program that will bankrupt the country. Has it been repealed? No - and it probably won't be repealed in our lifetimes. Don't assume that Clinton or Obama can't do much worse than a flawed conservative candidate like McCain - they can and they will. Roosevelt ushered in decades of Democratic dominance, during which they added even more economy-destroying programs.
Right/wrong track shows that Bushcons have been weighed in the balance and found wanting.
No one is a ever a true conservative to the born complainer.
W started out as a real conservative and thankfully his SCOTUS nominees were conservative but his administration got hijaked by neocons.
Except when it came to earmarks and pork for shrimp boaters and his district. Then he was drunken sailor. I think if Barry Goldwater were alive, he would be carrying on the battle against Islamofascism. Something that Ron Paul seems not to care about.
One could not honestly and truthfully believe that “getting welfare and food stamps” is a “great deal”.
Boo hoo hoo... we’re such great people, why does no one listen to us? Let’s take our toys and go home. That’ll show ‘em... they’re all nothing without us. Boo hoo hoo /s zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Well, whoever McCain nominates will have a hard time getting through a Democrat Congress.
McCain said he wold NOT nominate someone ike Alito, which ios precisely what we want him to do.
He was the leader of the Gang of 14, which destroyed the chances of several of President Bush's better nominees.
He told the San Francisco Chronicle that he doesn't think Roe v. Wade should be overturned.
And you can bet that he won't nominate anyone who, if given the chance, might ovte to overturn his signature legislative achievement, the unconstitutional, anti-free speech McCain-Feingold Speech Suppression Act.
Furthermore, it was McCain-type Republicans who gave us "justices" such as John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Harry Blackmun, Earl Warren, and William Brennan.
Barry Goldwater’s son endorsed Ron Paul.
Goldwater wasn't a conservative and neither is Ron Paul.
Goldwater and Paul are/were, however, both cranks and complete failures.
Defining moment of Goldwater's career as a "conservative": in 1976 he endorsed Ford instead of Reagan.
Only because we choose to be. (And the two parties have conspired to make it difficult for anyone else -- still, two of the largest states -- California and New York -- have multiple parties permanently on their ballots.
But really, what can we do?
Well, start our own. That's how the Republcan Party came into being. A group of people who were dissatisfied with the Whigs formed their own party and the Whigs died. The GOP has done such a good job of replacing the Whigs that it has become the Whigs. It's time to replace it. (The Democrats need replacing, too, but that is another matter.)
Pastor Chuck is the best at The CP. I hope he gets the nod as their nominee for Prez.
He really has his finger on the pulse of conservatism, and he is 3/4s right—that pulse is dead...EXCEPT where he DIDN’T mention it—ON THE WING OF THE ANTI-INVASION CONSERVATIVES!! That’s right! Since the Minutemen went to the AZ Border in 2005, the one segment of the conservative movement that has GROWN EXPONENTIALLY, NOT DIED is the anti-Invasion segment led by D.A. King, Fred Elbel, Gilchrist, Barb Coe, Terry Anderson, Lupe Moreno, Ted Hayes, Joe Turner, Frosty Wooldridge, Andy Ramirez, Tom Tancredo, Kris Kobach and so many others. Pastor Chuck missed out big-time in mentioning this fact.
So, while eulogies are probably due the conservative movement IN GENERAL, the segment that is “kicking ass” and the one that is forcing state governments and local governments and communities to uphold Federal law by passing tough laws of their own and given the po-lice the 287-g training needed legally to arrest and hold illegal aliens is ALIVE AND WELL!! And God bless ‘em!!
I would say Dr. Keyes also qualifies on that score.
I see you’ve been drinking McVain’s Kool Aid.
I have no problem with mondern day prophets.
But these three are clowns.
If one is a prophet to the conservative movement, stay a prophet and quit running for president every 4 years.
Every once in a while, we do. Remember the attempt a few months ago to ram through amnesty for illegals? Derailed by the angry phone calls, letters, and e-mails of millions of patriotic Americans.
They got the message on that one, loud and clear (which isn't to say they won't try again sometime).
I’ll tell ya what you do...You give generously to conservative candidates locally, statewide and running for the House and U.S. Senate. You also give generously to anti-Invasion heroes like Terry Anderson and Glenn Spencer who are close to being taken off the air and off the internet because of lack of donations that have kept them going till now. You BACK the part of the Movement that is STILL ALIVE AND KICKING!! Because, the only thing that is going to save the U.S. from this 40 million illegal alien invasion is getting as many of them out of our country as fast as possible—for our own sakes.
Sorry Paul is interested in defending America. He is not interested in being the world's robocop or going to war to carry out UN resolutions. Let others defend themselves.
That’s right, TBP! We start our own.
Right, and the Pope isn't Catholic and I'm the King of France.
Well I for one will not throw in the towel, in fact I can’t. Since I turned 18 I have voted in the presidential elections and that won’t stop now that I’m 52. Maybe I’m just a fool optimist. So be it.
Every time I begin to feel the slightest, most all-but-imperceptible twitches of concern over the hellish fate awaiting this nation should a red-faced and egomaniacal crank like Juan McCain ever actually find himself within spitting distance of the Oval Office: I pause to reflect upon the inate charm and grace of the man's most doggedly slavish supporters, online... and feel reassured, once more, that his freakishly spiteful and antagonistic base is -- in the final analysis -- OUR secret weapon, not his.
Stay classy, now.
In the general election you go to war with what you have not what you'd hoped to have.
With apologies to D. Rumsfield.
Moreover, in other countries the system ensures through continuous runoffs that the eventual President will technically have majority electoral support. And in many countries, the President is just a figurehead with the Prime Minister representing the majority coalition having the most power.
In the USA a three party system would inevitably result in Presidents that were elected to office with only 40ish% of the vote or less.
And US Presidents are far more powerful than almost any other countries' Presidents with the exception of France and Russia.
There are structural reasons why a two-party system has emerged.
Which is why even now, Congress is trying to sneak amnesty through.
I’ve noticed something neat even on FR. Ron Paul gets the honor of being compared unfavorably to The Ideal. Juan McCain and others like him, on the other hand, get compared favorably to Hillary Clinton. Even by some individuals who (appear to) have deep conservative convictions.
Regardless of the Pope's doctrinal orthodoxy or your lineage, Barry Goldwater was not a conservative.
He flirted with conservatism during the 60s, but moved on after he tired of it.
He was an enthusiastic supporter of abortion, a champion of special rights for homosexuals and an antagonist of traditional Christianity.
Or join with one of the existing conservtive parties. No need to reinvent the wheel.
It’s obvious you never read the article.
You think I’m a McCain supporter? Please. I just don’t want to be a member of the Sore Loserman club.
It’s a great deal for those who don’t want to work for a living - it’s something for nothing. For those who do want to work, Democrats will give them quotas. These are things few Republicans will give them.
I agree with Mr. Baldwin's view of McCain here, though I don't share all of his views. But this is just sloppy. McCain didn't run for President in 2004.
NRTL never "vociferously opposed" McCain. They opposed his McCain/Feingold legislation, they opposed his position on Stem Cells. NRTL has been pretty consistent in supporting candidates who allow abortion in cases of rape, incest, and to save a Mother's life -- after all, the endorsed Fred Thompson for this election, and he supported all three of those things.
I don't know which "conservative groups" this guy hangs out with. NO conservative group I've seen is calling McCain a conservative. The FISCAL conservatives are hawking his fiscal conservatism, and I think they have a point, but there is no delusion amongst conservatives that we are stuck with a bad choice.
I’d been hoping for a Reagan clone. But a somewhat conservative Republican was what I got. The reason it’s so dangerous to vote Democratic is because they’re a bunch of economic liberals - every new program they vote in ensures a built-in voter block of support, at massive taxpayer expense.
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