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Could Conspiracies, Including the Kennedy Assassination and Others, Survive in Time of Internet?
RFFM.org ^ | April 19, 2008 | Daniel T. Zanoza

Posted on 04/19/2008 1:21:06 PM PDT by Daniel T. Zanoza

AUTHOR'S NOTE: For a number of weeks, RFFM.org will write a series of columns on the conspiracies which have helped to form the world we live in today. From the killers themselves to the media's role in conspiracies, RFFM.org will attempt to separate the wheat from the chaff. There will be no discussions of flying saucers, USO's (unidentified submerged objects) or the like in this series. RFFM.org encourages readers to submit intelligent comments about the existence of conspiracies and, who knows, perhaps one of the real killers of JFK might actually write in.

Now, before I start receiving weird comments about strange things, let me make one thing perfectly clear. I don't believe aliens landed in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. I don't believe thousands of people are being abducted by little gray men every year and I don't believe President George Bush knew that two of the most important buildings in the financial world would be attacked on 9/11 and didn't do anything about it. Folks, that would be the last place a capitalist nation would have destroyed.

However, I think it's almost a certainty that John F. Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy that took his life on November 22, 1963. I also believe ...

(Excerpt) Read more at rffm.typepad.com ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Conspiracy; History; TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: conspiracy; jfkassassination; johnfkennedy; kennedyassassination; leeharveyoswald; martinlutherking
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1 posted on 04/19/2008 1:21:06 PM PDT by Daniel T. Zanoza
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza
Could Conspiracies, Including the Kennedy Assassination and Others, Survive in Time of Internet?

Not only will they survive, but they will reproduce, and get new life cycles every two years. The Truthers are at seven years and counting, they're about to enter a new cycle.

2 posted on 04/19/2008 1:23:24 PM PDT by Old Sarge (CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)
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To: Old Sarge

Survive, and thrive, and proliferate at the speed of signal propagation.


3 posted on 04/19/2008 1:24:36 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: RightWhale

yep. nothing gets out of the web. until the databases die.


4 posted on 04/19/2008 1:26:39 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (to love New York is to love humanity.)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza; Quix

Well I guess that leaves Quix out.
/sarcasm buddy


5 posted on 04/19/2008 1:28:50 PM PDT by Global2010 (Prayer Bump for Catholic Freeper Salvation)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

Interesting idea.

Thanks for posting the article/link Daniel.


6 posted on 04/19/2008 1:29:41 PM PDT by Global2010 (Prayer Bump for Catholic Freeper Salvation)
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To: Old Sarge
A certain person once told me that he was angry because “his President” had been assassinated.

That person then showed me information about what happened in Dallas and showed me (and others) how to find more information for myself to help me with my skepticism.

I was 14 years old and that was closer to 40 years ago than I care to admit.

I've done some homework.

JFK was murdered as the result of a conspiracy and the folks responsible for the Warren Commission report ought to be held in disgrace for ever. That includes Justice Warren, President Ford, Senator Spector, et al.

7 posted on 04/19/2008 1:32:55 PM PDT by Radix (Sometimes a post is just a post.)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/confession2.htm


8 posted on 04/19/2008 1:37:47 PM PDT by Lexington Green (The Rev. Jeremiah Wright = Grand Wizard of the Klan-With-A-Tan)
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To: Radix

If you go to the Kennedy assassination sites you’ll see a relatively new movie taken on that day. Held back for years, it shows the Secret Service being called off JFK’s limo a few minutes before the start of his last motorcade.

You can see one SS man literally throwing up his hands in wonderment at the order.

Anybody that studies the assassination for much more than an hour understands that the fix was in.

After reading Robert Caro’s MASTER OF THE SENATE, I became convinced that LBJ was capable of ANYTHING. Hoover, too hated Kennedy. Hoffa, likely involved. Johnny Roselli, Charles Nicoletti, all likely.

Just read about Jack Ruby’s contacts the two weeks before the assassination...leaves no doubt that he was a mafia bagman...and deeply involved in plotting the murder.


9 posted on 04/19/2008 1:44:55 PM PDT by kjo
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To: Radix

“JFK was murdered as the result of a conspiracy and the folks responsible for the Warren Commission report ought to be held in disgrace for ever.”

This stuff would be quite funny if it wasn’t a serious subject.

Anyway, in my humble opinion Earl Warren, whatever you think of his liberal jurisprudence ( and I don’t care for it ), was a gentleman of the old school. When his own father was murdered he, as Alameda county prosecutor, let the only suspect go due to insufficient evidence. Chief Justice Warren would never have participated in a cover-up of Kennedy’s murder, and neither would Gerald Ford, Richard Russell (who expressed his doubts in the final report), and the other eminent gentlemen who participated in the commission. And it’s also hard for me to imagine Attorney General Robert Kennedy saying and doing nothing about a cover-up of his own brother’s murder.

We live in an age in which it has become extremely difficult to distinguish fact from fiction, reality from fantasy. As Michael Crichton has noted, we live in the age of disinformation.


10 posted on 04/19/2008 2:10:14 PM PDT by devere (http://www.usmm.net/p2/thiswar.jpg)
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To: Radix

I have done lots of homework also, and I’m convinced you are correct.

I believe the truth of this assassination will evolve exactly as the Lincoln assassination did. There’s very little dispute anymore that a conspiracy was traced back to the confederate intelligence at the time.

For a brief look at the latest on Lincoln, the History channel has a 1 hour segment that shows the chain of information and events.

I have seen a US 11/22/63 newspaper UPI article that was released right after the assassination before Oswald is mentioned in the media. The SS agents were interviewed and said the gunfire (automatic) was probably from the ‘Knoll’. This is what they said in print before anything was mentioned about Oswald, and they didn’t even mention gunfire from the depository!

***JFK was murdered as the result of a conspiracy and the folks responsible for the Warren Commission report ought to be held in disgrace for ever. That includes Justice Warren, President Ford, Senator Spector, et al.***


11 posted on 04/19/2008 2:35:51 PM PDT by msnpatriot
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To: devere
We live in an age in which it has become extremely difficult to distinguish fact from fiction, reality from fantasy.

Yep, more people today prefer to believe lies than truth, even when they witness an event with their own eyes, as most people on the planet with access to a TV did on 9/11/01.

12 posted on 04/19/2008 2:45:35 PM PDT by Wolfstar (Politics is the ultimate excercise in facing reality and making hard choices.)
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To: Radix
There are so many people that so want to desperately want to believe conspiracy with JFK, when the truth is Oswald did it and did it alone! It has been proven forensically, through computer models and through recreations, and yes the magic bullet shot was proven to be possible! Its funny how we have the Zapruter film that records the murder and we know that there is no way Oswald could have done it, but o film of JD Tippet being murdered and we know Oswald did it!

These "Truthers" are nothing more than hacks who see a speck and say its a bullet. Suddenly they are building engineers that say WTC7 was a demolition, but can't tell you why it was blown up? Wannabe witnesses to anything, pseudo experts in nothing, but authoritative in all matters!

13 posted on 04/19/2008 2:51:33 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Bommer
Back in the 1960s when we did not have digital or Internet I remember listening (later watching) to the tapes of the actual live Oswald murder report.

The horn beeped twice and the second honk was immediately prior to the gunshot by Ruby. The headlights on the station wagon also flashed briefly just at the second honk before the gunshot by Ruby.

Not much evidence of a conspiracy I'll agree, but on the other hand, things were a bit less technologically sophisticated in those days.

The folks who put all of this assassination business together certainly did not anticipate the acoustic evidence, the Zapruder film, and later the Internet, among other things.

I was shown enough compelling information 40 years ago to convince me of the corruption of our system.

Perhaps that is part of the reason that I have since made it my business to know what I am talking about in every case before I express opinions on any matter.

14 posted on 04/19/2008 5:57:14 PM PDT by Radix (Sometimes a post is just a post.)
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To: Radix
Perhaps that is part of the reason that I have since made it my business to know what I am talking about in every case before I express opinions on any matter

There are guys in Dealy plaza to this day that make it their "business" to sell newpaper flyers at $7.50 thats full of the conspiracy crap. Hate to disappoint, but there was no conspiracy. Most of the theories are woven fantacies to try to make it look like a conspiracy. Take away all the crap of "opinons" and look at it from a forensic standpoint with film and photos and pure logic and the vast majority of the opinions by so called experts can be shreaded to pieces. The only conspiracy of teh JFK assassination is the one that still wants people to believe its a conpiracy.

15 posted on 04/19/2008 6:26:21 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Radix

Strongly agree.

Conspiracies can easiliy survive in the internet age. Maybe more people will be aware of the truth . . . but SHEEPLE prefer to be sheeple . . . than to face complex, troublesom and frightening things that essentially spell the end of life as we have known it.


16 posted on 04/19/2008 7:13:31 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Bommer
I have never been to Dealy Plaza. In fact I have never even been to Texas.

I do know how to read though. I also can see, hear, and think for myself.

I've read, heard, and thought enough in my life to feel confident believing/knowing that it took more than one person to effect what was in essence a political coup in the USA in 1963.

17 posted on 04/19/2008 7:23:48 PM PDT by Radix (Sometimes a post is just a post.)
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To: Radix
Well I do live near Dallas (DFW metroplex) Been to Dealy Plaza many a time, 6th floor mueseum once, and even saw the JFK limo at the Henry Ford Mueseum in Dearborn MI. I know you read alot, but you read alot of crap by idiots that did not look at the assassination from a forensic point of view, only a conpiracy point of view. Their views wouldn't stand up in court (see Jim Garrison, major league corrupt idiot and Oliver Stone hero) He based his case on one eyewitness (Jack Martin) who said he saw Oswald with David Farrie & Clay Shaw planning the assassination. Quite a fear considering the limo route wasn't changed until a day before Kennedy arrived (oh wait, CIA was in on it) Turned out Jack Martin was a liar and recanted his remarks a week before teh trial, but Garrison went on with it anyways!

Look Radix, no matter what forensic proof I show you (and some of it is quite damning) you want to believe our Government wacked him. I'd like to believe it too, but it just didn't happen. Oswald was a nut who desparately wanted attention and he got it...in the worst way. Why he did it? No one knows, but he did.

18 posted on 04/19/2008 7:33:23 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Bommer

I actually have read a few books on the matter.

Funny, Jim Garrison was a corrupt politician. Aren’t they all?

The business with the forensics after the Parkland hospital was very disturbing. That book Best Evidence was thought provoking.

I love the subject, but too bad tomorrow is a work day for me.

Back later.


19 posted on 04/19/2008 7:43:23 PM PDT by Radix (Sometimes a post is just a post.)
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To: msnpatriot
I have seen a US 11/22/63 newspaper UPI article that was released right after the assassination before Oswald is mentioned in the media. The SS agents were interviewed and said the gunfire (automatic) was probably from the ‘Knoll’. This is what they said in print before anything was mentioned about Oswald, and they didn’t even mention gunfire from the depository!

And your point is?

Conspiracy theorists love to point to initial reports with "details" not found later, as if they contain some kernels of truth that were later covered up. Anyone who's worked a breaking news story (or for that matter followed a breaking news thread on FR) knows what a load of codswallop that is.

I've reported on a few breaking news stories and watched the wires on a lot more, and I can tell you that without exception they are a Charlie Foxtrot. There's a hysterical mixture of fact, rumor, best guesses, and eyewitness reports from folks who are flipped out and wouldn't be an authoritative source under the best of circumstances.

Unless you believe that there is a conspiracy to cover up the truth that TWA flight 800 was brought down by fartman's flatulence -- a "fact" reported on CNN's air by an "eyewitness" who turned out to be one of those jagoff Howard Stern callers.

20 posted on 04/19/2008 8:04:14 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: kjo
If you go to the Kennedy assassination sites you’ll see a relatively new movie taken on that day. Held back for years, it shows the Secret Service being called off JFK’s limo a few minutes before the start of his last motorcade.

"Held back" by whom? Released by whom? And if it's such a bombshell, why is it only found on "the Kennedy assassination sites"? All of the clips I found have the same narration track. Who shot it, who edited it, and who's narrating?

21 posted on 04/19/2008 8:16:18 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: Radix
Well while at work heres something you can chew on that I put together that you may like

The "Magic Bullet" Theory

This is the glorious magic bullet trajectory that all the conspiracy experts subscribe to:


It "Magically" twists in mid air moves two feet to Kennedys right and hits Connelly. Problem is Connelly wasn't sitting in front of JFK. he was lower and to his left in a jump seat. This is a rare photo of the limo after it arrived in DC the day of the assassination

Notice the jump seat. See how the far the seat is from the door jam? Well fine and well but can't tell from that angle. Look at Connelly in this photo (behind Mrs. Connellys head hard to see I know).

See the top of his head is lower. "Yeah but what about to the seat to JFK's left?. Here's a real treat. A very rare 8 mm film shot by Dave Powers (a very close friend of JFK) on 11/22/63 from the car directly behind Kennedys. He unfortuniately ran out of film 10 mins before they got to Dealy Plaza (Right click on the link and save it to your desktop. Makes it easier to blow up for better detail to see where Connelly is sitting. Its only 3.5megs and you need Quicktime to view it)
Look at where Connelly is, directly to his left. So that kills the theory of the bullet making a sharp turn to the right.

So heres its official course:

This is what Oswalds 140 foot shot whould have looked like on 11/22/63.

The Oswald shot itself was recreated for A Discovery Channel special "Unsolved History: JFK — Beyond the Magic Bullet". It attempted to replicate, as best as possible, the conditions of that day. The participants set up blocks of ballistics gel with a substance similar to human bone inside. These studies showed that largely undeformed bullets were possible to produce, if they were slowed by a passage though a tissue-like substance before striking bone. Next, two mannequin figures made of ballistic anatomical substances (animal skin, gelatin, and interior bone-like cast) were set up in the exact relative position of JFK and Connally.

A marksman, from a distance equal to that of the sixth floor of the Book Depository building, fired the same rifle model found in the Book Depository, using a round from the same batch of "Western Case Cartridge Company" 6.5x52 mm ammunition purchased with the surplus Carcano weapon in early 1963. The path of their single bullet (followed by high speed photography) duplicated, almost exactly, the wounds suffered by the victims that day, the only difference being that the bullet did not quite have enough energy to penetrate the "thigh" substance in front of the Connally figure, because it struck an extra bone in the "rib" model (i.e., it fractured 2 ribs in the model vs. one rib in Connally). It was also slightly more deformed than CE 399, possibly for the same reason. However, this bullet came close enough to duplicating all wounds in both men with a single shot, with a bullet having little deformation. Thus the theory was proven to be much more plausible than previously thought.

If you like I can tell you about the Grassy Knowl shot and why it couldn't be done.

22 posted on 04/19/2008 8:21:00 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Global2010; Old Sarge; Alex Murphy; alpha-8-25-02; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; ...
That's fine with me.

However, I don't GET IT.

And I MUCH prefer to get sarcasm I'm the focus of! LOL.

in terms of conspiracies . . .

I believe globalists at least sicked the Jihadis on the WTC.

I'm still quite skeptical our beloved President had anything to do with it. etc. etc. etc.

I wouldn't trust his father, however, with used toilet paper. . . . nor his father's father.

Studying the topic of the globalist conspiracy since 1965 . . . partly forced to by my job of preparing the primary reference materials of the Alderdice Collection for University library patron use . . .

plus

having a close relative work directly under Otto Kraus in a highly classified job where he saw UFO's not daily as I'd thought but quite frequently . . .

all leaves me with a perspective rather uncommon in my experience.

It's interesting, the fellow using the classroom at the college before me teaches history. And, I think he fancies himself an expert on historic tyranny. I charitably label him such an expert, in any case.

He strikes me as a disgruntled 40's or so would-have-been hippie . . . certainly a flaming liberal.

He's always late in clearing the room so I've taken to saying pleasant things to him and asking him thought-provoking questions vs just tapping my inner foot for him to get out of there so I can set up the chairs in a U--which he seems unable to appreciate the advantage of--and insists they be changed back for his class after my two.

Anyway, One day recently, I'd just read a thread hereon about Christians being legally persecuted in Canada or some such . . . and was more annoyed about it than I MIGHT should have been considering that God is still working HIS WILL out, regardless.

And so I began in with this history prof . . . noting again that he was an expert on historic tyranny . . . and asking him . . . what would the next class/group of folks be likely to experience a new holocaust.

He was absolutely clueless--had no idea . . . started out talking about how he didn't think anyone would . . . wasn't aware of anyone etc.

I just noted that there was a group who'd already begun to experience legal tyranny and for whom it would get much worse. But that I thought it would be more educational for him to ponder it a while without my cluing him in.

I don't think he can get it. I think his biases are toooooo UTTERLY BLINDING. And, I think even if I piled the documentation high on his desk that he'd still deny it.

Denial is such a fascinating thing. I think it most tends to be married to idolatry.

In the history prof's case, I think his idolatry is to/of his clueless liberal idiot world view . . . and particularly against conservatives and their world view.

He had noted earlier that he didn't believe in any conspiracies . . . when I raised the issue of globalism. What a pile of stinking cluelessness! The evidence is piled high in every corner of public life in overt ways. And still a lot of FREEPERS, even Christians remain clueless about it. Shocking.

Here we have 3--3 candidates for President every one of which is traitorous and every one of which is an overt globalist . . . two of whom are brazenly open Communists . . . one of whom is highly likely a practicing satanist. And the vast majority of the public are clueless. Even a lot of conservatives grossly as in !!!!GROSSLY!!!! UNDERESTIMATE the seriouisness of the CURRENT state of affairs--much less the horrors on the near horizon.

At this point in my study and observations on the topic, I don't have a lot of patience any more for folks who walk around like SHEEPLE with their heads in a garbage can . . . and the can duct taped securely over their heads, their eyes, their ears . . .

Instead of the old . . . SEE NO EVIL, HEAR NO EVIL, SPEAK NO EVIL . . .

IT'S SEE NO REALITY, HEAR NO REALITY, SPEAK NO REALITY.

I wonder . . . how many FREEPERS know Jewish folks who went through the German holocaust. IF YOU DO, PLEASE POLL THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND ASK THEM HOW LIKE PREWAR GERMANY IS THE USA, NOW.

The ones I've heard of 100% say it's very much like then.

Which reminds me of the thing I've often repeated by my Univ Library boss--the one who was labeled Director of the Special Collections Dept but who had too much on his plate as Reference librarian so left me in charge . . . and who was/is the world's best expert on Pre-Hitler ephemera, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, etc. most accurately and earliest describing quite well who Hitler was and what Hitler would become and do.

Those EARLIEST WARNING AND MOST ACCURATE materials came from the MOST FRINGE organizations and were viewed as the flakiest organizations. Yet their predictions came chillingly true to the letter.

JEWS EVEN laughingly derided such ideas . . . up until, in many cases, they were marched off to the boxcars, themselves.

Today, we have many laughing conservatives . . . denying the BLAZING NEON handwriting on the wall and all across every media--and laughing at those watchmen on the wall crying PREPARE! PREPARE! WALK CLOSE TO GOD! WORK! WORK! WORK! WHILE THERE'S LIGHT, THE NIGHT IS FAST APPROACHING.

Those in the miniority who are alert and listening to God and the warnings are preparing. The clueless will likely remain clueless in large part.

I laugh . . . on ABOVETOPSECRET.COM there are threads about how can we stop the NWO etc. etc. etc. Scripture is clear . . . there will be NO stopping it. Perhaps prayer and righteous living will delay it somewhat . . . PERHAPS . . . though there hasn't seemed to be much of either flooding the land . . . except maybe for a couple of weeks after the WTC and Katrina, each.

Even my step-dad . . . I asked him to please pray about how we should prepare the home place here--the acre we have left. And he quickly decried stocking up on food citing God feeding the Israelites in the wilderness and Elish's widow woman. And, certainly God did and can and will. But God is also likely to let some go a bit hungrier a bit longer than they otherwise would have, had they prepared when He was telling them to and enabling them to.

I guess at this point, satire and mocking of my positions and pontifications vis a vis the globalist conspiracy (of which the UFO aspect is but a sub-unit) . . . hardly even registers very significantly except as futher evidence of citizen blindness; citizen swallowing of the long served kool-aid . . . citizen reluctance to face uncomfortable facts.

But such is the lot of the watchman on the wall . . . given inexorably to seeing things beyond the horizon . . . things definitely headed this way . . . which will definitely arrive . . . and not at all only intruding during the commercials.

Will I take a lot of comfort when folks finally are forced to wake up as more and more of their friends are awakened at 03:00-04;00 for a 'little trip with us, please. No need to take your things. It will just be a short trip. We just have some questions.'

Will I be comforted to finally be proven right? Not so much. I already have absolutely 0.000000% doubt about being right. I can't be any more convinced about being right. On the whole, it will be quite sad to see it come to pass . . .

EXCEPT THAT, PRAISE GOD, ALMIGHTY GOD WILL ALSO BE DEMONSTRATING HIS MAJESTY MORE THAN EVER BEFORE . . . RAISING UP A STANDARD AGAINST THE ENEMY AND CAUSING HIS KIDS TO DO GREAT EXPLOITS FOR HIM AND HIS KINGDOM. THAT WILL BE GREAT CAUSE FOR REJOICING. But narrow is the way . . . and so relatively few (percentage-wise) seem to be finding it and walking steadily thereon.

23 posted on 04/19/2008 9:29:51 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Bommer

It didn’t take any consipiracy sites in a nonexisting web in 1963? was it? I forget.

I knew within days that it was a conspiracy. I never believed the Warren report. It reeked of coverup and high-handed shenanigans. I even suspected LBJ had something to do with it. And, it was one of the reasons I felt Gerald Ford was unfit for the Presidency and was obviously a globalist stooge filling in dutifully. I felt he was on the Warren Commission . . . as were all the rest—hand-picked to insure that the party line was promulgated.

I’ve read nothing since to dissuade me.

And I think the media shows indicating a conspiracy are much more convincing that those trying vainly to say there wasn’t one.


24 posted on 04/19/2008 9:36:36 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Bommer

BTW, one of the interesting facets of both Marilyn Monroe’s death and Kennedy’s is their reported statements just prior there to about outting at least part of the UFO stuff.


25 posted on 04/19/2008 9:37:58 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: devere

If the powers that be demand that you play their game

or else they will cause you and every living relative you have to disappear from the face of the earth . . .

it tends to get one’s attention.

And that’s assuming that you weren’t philosophically on board with their agenda to begin with.


26 posted on 04/19/2008 9:39:46 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
Thank you so much for sharing your insights and concerns!

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

27 posted on 04/19/2008 9:50:59 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Quix

“but SHEEPLE prefer to be sheeple . . . than to face complex, troublesom and frightening things that essentially spell the end of life as we have known it.”

Sheeple or not, I prefer to follow the evidence, and my own viewpoint, which is to rely on human nature as I understand it.

There have been some obvious cover-ups in my lifetime, such as TWA flight 800, and the death of Vincent Foster. But my best judgment is that Lee Oswald was the lone assassin of JFK. You are entitled to disagree if you wish.


28 posted on 04/19/2008 9:51:03 PM PDT by devere (http://www.usmm.net/p2/thiswar.jpg)
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To: Quix
I'm still quite skeptical our beloved President had anything to do with it. etc. etc. etc. I wouldn't trust his father, however, with used toilet paper. . . . nor his father's father.

The apple does not fall far from the horse.

29 posted on 04/19/2008 9:51:20 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thanks for your kind comment.

INDEED: MARANATHA, JESUS!


30 posted on 04/19/2008 10:01:24 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: devere

Of course we are still authorized our own opinions. LOL.

Time will certainly tell.

But on the JFK thing—the evidence has been in for quite a while, imho.


31 posted on 04/19/2008 10:02:43 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

Just happened across this thread at ATS:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread333711/pg1

Kennedy’s Iron Mountain Report, Truth or Hoax?

Many have said that the Iron Mountain Report was a hoax. You decide.

In 1961, President John F. Kennedy became interested in what the outcome would be if we became a society of peace, rather than one of war. He then ordered a ‘Top Secret’ study to see what the possible outcome might be. This project was referred to, as bringing America into a ‘New World Order.’

Kennedy’s Study Group entailed fifteen different fields of expert study topics. The group’s first and last meetings were held in an underground nuclear survival area called, Iron Mountain. The report ended in 1966. As many of us know, President Kennedy was shot and killed in 1963 in Dallas, Tx. He didn’t get the chance to explain a speech that he had made at Columbia University, some years earlier.

In 1963, the same year as the selection of specialists for this “Top Secret” study, President John F. Kennedy made an astounding statement. On November 13, while speaking at Columbus University, Pres. Kennedy stated, “The high office of the President of the United States of America has been used to foment a plot to destroy America’s freedom, and before I leave office, I must inform the citizens of their plight! Ten days later, President John F. Kennedy was shot and killed.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

It was recommended by President Johnson that the report be sealed and that only those, ‘who needed to know’ should ever see it. It was also concluded that the American people were not intelligent enough to view it and understand it.

To quote directly from the cover letter of this report: (paragraph three) “Because of the unusual circumstances surrounding the establishment of this Group, and in view of the nature of its finding, we do not recommend that this Report be released for publication...such actions would not be in the PUBLIC INTEREST (emphasis mine)..a lay reader, unexposed to the exigencies of higher political or military responsibility, will misconstrue the purpose of this project, and the intent... We urge that the circulation of the Report be closely restricted to those who’s responsibilities require that they be apprised of its contents...” Those who responsibilities require they know? Would this be the people who will be working to bring us into a New world Order?

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

One of the members, at great risk to himself, decided to release the information to the public and let them decide for themselves. He released the information under the name of John Doe. The Establishment, quickly called it a hoax. It is my understanding that some larger libraries still have copies.

You should also note that ‘Silent Weapons For Quiet Wars,’ is also mentioned in this study.

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If you love animals, read Tiki’s story:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


32 posted on 04/19/2008 10:21:32 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: ReignOfError

Go to the sites and see. It was shot by a private citizen the day of...his family held it back until after his death...it’s there, wish I could remember the site, but it’s one of the major assassination sites.


33 posted on 04/20/2008 6:26:15 AM PDT by kjo
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To: kjo
Go to the sites and see. It was shot by a private citizen the day of...his family held it back until after his death...it’s there, wish I could remember the site, but it’s one of the major assassination sites.

Gee, how could I doubt it, with a provenance like that?

34 posted on 04/20/2008 8:12:48 AM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: Quix
It didn’t take any consipiracy sites in a nonexisting web in 1963? was it? I forget.

Have no idea what the hell that means or what your refering to, but since your other followup is wacked and you don't want to know the truth anyways, all I'll say to you is "Happy Drinking!"

35 posted on 04/20/2008 12:45:16 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Bommer

Soooooooooooooo clever.

I wasn’t remembering the precise year JFK was Fosterized.

BTW, I’ve never even been tipsy in my 61 years. I drink maybe 1-4 glasses of wine—one glas with a meal—that many times a year.

I’d guess you’re about as WRONG about conspiracies as you are about my drinking.

Cheers.


36 posted on 04/20/2008 1:35:46 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Bommer

IIRC,

I was just trying to note that there were no websites way back then, of course . . .

but that it was still fairly obvious to many of us that a conspiracy was involved.

But then some of us are more experienced & perceptive at reading nuances than others.


37 posted on 04/20/2008 1:40:43 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: SunkenCiv; jazusamo; BIGLOOK; Fred Nerks; Jeff Head; Dog

Kennedy’s Iron Mountain Report


38 posted on 04/20/2008 6:05:09 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: ReignOfError; All
My point is that there was a conspiracy in the assassination of JFK, something I've researched for many years.

If you commit a crime against your government, you are charged with conspiracy. Why would you rule out any conspiracy committed by a govt? That is naive. Just because it's cool to ridicule people who think for themselves, and conspiracy is a vehicle used not to think? Where have the ‘Perry Mason’ type thinkers gone?

Judging by my research, the JFK assassination is somewhat unique in that you cannot rely on any information from the mainstream media or govt. You must go directly to the evidence and judge for yourself, and if your willing to do that I assure you that you will find conspiracy. Your own House of Representatives determined that there was most likely a conspiracy, read up on that.

The UPI article I cited was fascinating, and was a complete account from people on the scene. I would hardly discount the comments of the SS there, it was they who reported shots from the knoll to the media. I applaud them for getting a report like that out!

Get a hold of the live NBC breaking broadcast that day, and listen to the interview with a witness that was 10ft away from JFK and facing the knoll. She reported shots from there also. If that isn't contributing evidence that would be considered I don't know what would, especially more so after seeing the direction of the shot from the right front on the Zapruder film.

***And your point is?

Conspiracy theorists love to point to initial reports with “details” not found later, as if they contain some kernels of truth that were later covered up. Anyone who's worked a breaking news story (or for that matter followed a breaking news thread on FR) knows what a load of codswallop that is.***

39 posted on 04/20/2008 6:19:19 PM PDT by msnpatriot
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

I know you were limited by space in your story, but you made a very important omission by not mentioning the Vincent Foster murder conspiracy. I should hope you are intelligent enough to see that the official conclusions of “suicide” there were a complete whitewash of a heinous crime!


40 posted on 04/20/2008 6:36:06 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: george76
Conspiracy theories on the Internet exploded exponentially.

I've never heard of the Iron Mountain Report.

In 1963, I was in the high school orchestra class when over the P/A came the announcement that Kennedy had been shot. School was dismissed but it was only 10 minutes early and those of us on the HS wrestling team boarded our regular bus to head off to practice. After we got to the gym, practice was cancelled and we were sent home. School was closed for the following week.

My Grandfather who despised FDR but took a liking to Kennedy said in passing 'This is the end of the Democrats'.

I've wondered about that statement for years. Now I think he meant the Dems would change course politically away from socialism with Kennedy....but Kennedy's death gave us LBJ.


41 posted on 04/20/2008 6:55:08 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (MSM-Keelhauling the News Daily!)
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To: msnpatriot
Why would you rule out any conspiracy committed by a govt?

When did I? My point was that what you provided as evidence of a conspiracy is of weak, if any, evidentiary value. Initial news reports and eyewitness statements in the heat of the moment are notoriously inaccurate.

I've looked at the evidence, and the weight of it supports one shooter, one rifle, three shots. The evidence for any of the scads of proposed conspiracy theories is paper-thin; the lynchpin of Kennedy conspiracy theories is proving that Oswald could not have acted alone.

One by one, the claimed factors that made the shootings y Oswald impossible have been picked off. The timing of the shots, the accuracy of the shots, the "magic bullet," and so on.

Also arguing against a conspiracy is the fact that it would have necessarily involved hundreds, if not thousands, of people. A conspiracy on that scale simply does not hold up that long. That's not conclusive, but it places the burden of proof on the conspiracy theorists -- extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Judging by my research, the JFK assassination is somewhat unique in that you cannot rely on any information from the mainstream media or govt. You must go directly to the evidence and judge for yourself, and if your willing to do that I assure you that you will find conspiracy. Your own House of Representatives determined that there was most likely a conspiracy, read up on that.

A bit selective there, aren't we? The mainstream media is an unreliable source of information except for a UPI wire report immediately after the fact. The government is unreliable, except for the HSCA.

The UPI article I cited was fascinating,

Isaac Asimov short stories are fascinating. I don't accept them as factual.

and was a complete account from people on the scene. I would hardly discount the comments of the SS there, it was they who reported shots from the knoll to the media.

I don't discount the comments, but I find them outweighed by the other available evidence. I will note once again that the initial reports on a breaking news event are rarely the most accurate, and eyewitness statements in the moments after an unexpected and traumatic event are rarely reliable.

42 posted on 04/20/2008 7:45:02 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: Quix
I was just trying to note that there were no websites way back then, of course . . . but that it was still fairly obvious to many of us that a conspiracy was involved.

There was a conspiracy to hid the internet in 1963? Well since I never infered that there was an internet in 63, I must have hit you on that 1-4 glass day. And since I showed enough forensic evidence in my former post that is indisputible and trashed your ideas of any Conspiracy, I would say your not much of an expert in anything, 61 years or not! Any day you want to put you knowlede of the case verse my 46 years, lets go! But I'll bite. Prove conclusively anything that supports your conspiracy. Was it Mafia, Cubans, CIA. just 1 little shread of provable evidence. I could care less of an opinon, I'm dealing with forensics. Thats how cases are solved today. The world has been waiting over 40 years and so far all we get are opinions of what happened verses actual proof!

43 posted on 04/20/2008 11:57:40 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Bommer

Not a priority.

Enjoy the smugness.


44 posted on 04/21/2008 8:03:04 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
not a priority

It never seems to be when you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about!

45 posted on 04/21/2008 8:26:04 AM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Bommer

Your unfounded haughty derisive personal assaults are sooooooo admirable.

I suppose you make judgments about conspiracies just as confidently on just as meager a batch of puzzle pieces. Impressive.

BTW, I’m curious . . . I gather you don’t believe that globalism is a force, movement, problem at all either???


46 posted on 04/21/2008 8:29:36 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: ReignOfError
My original reason for posting was to make some comments in this thread. It would take me weeks to post what I've learned regarding evidence. There have been many good threads on the JFK assassination on FR, lots of info, that I would recommend for a quick look at whats out there.

***My point was that what you provided as evidence of a conspiracy is of weak, if any, evidentiary value.***

There were countless people involved in the conspiracy, and many payed with their lives. Search Dorothy Kilgallen). Look up the death lists, the original 20 or so conspirators are now published btw, in the book Regicide (Check Amazon). Research their backgrounds. Read about the mafia ppl who lost their lives before testifying to the house. And take a look at the countless books written by people who have written about being caught in the conspiracy, especially on the street just before the event. One person found himself in the hit circle and was so shocked he staged a bank robbery so there would be proof he had done something else when it came down.

***Also arguing against a conspiracy is the fact that it would have necessarily involved hundreds, if not thousands, of people. A conspiracy on that scale simply does not hold up that long.***

Actually I thought the mainstream media did an excellent job with the story initially, until they were threatened and starting losing reporters. See Dorothy Killgalen for just one example. The public in general saw those reporters destroyed in the media, and could see the change in their attitude as events transitioned into the Garrison/Shaw case. And many in the public wondered why the media tried to destroy Garrison rather than helping him find the truth. They also wondered why the media didn't report more on the Shaw jury's agreement that there was a conspiracy.

***A bit selective there, aren't we? The mainstream media is an unreliable source of information except for a UPI wire report immediately after the fact. The government is unreliable, except for the HSCA.***

47 posted on 04/21/2008 4:53:14 PM PDT by msnpatriot
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To: Quix
Your unfounded haughty derisive personal assaults are sooooooo admirable.

Not nearly as delightful as your elitist snobbery.

I suppose you make judgments about conspiracies just as confidently on just as meager a batch of puzzle pieces. Impressive.

My judgement of a conspiracy is to look at facts, not innuendo and conjecture or half assed opinions by pseudo experts in nothing. All I get from you are glib remarks because you think you're right, but offer not a shred of hard evidence to back it up.

BTW, I’m curious . . . I gather you don’t believe that globalism is a force, movement, problem at all either???

Nice way to try to run away from the subject. Sorry I don't play that game! Gather all you want. I'm on topic and you so conveniently try to change the subject. Whats the matter? Can't back up your JFK Conspiracy convictions in the face of hard core facts?? Be gone! Your a waste of my time!

48 posted on 04/21/2008 5:15:10 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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JFK’s fatal head wound: The truth for those who want to know (very graphic)
jmasland.com & others | 11/22/03
Posted on 11/22/2003 5:10:59 PM PST by Wolfstar
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1027256/posts


49 posted on 04/21/2008 5:50:40 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_____________________Profile updated Saturday, March 29, 2008)
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To: Quix

[snip] On November 13, while speaking at Columbus University, Pres. Kennedy stated, “The high office of the President of the United States of America has been used to foment a plot to destroy America’s freedom, and before I leave office, I must inform the citizens of their plight!” [end]

Must have been a really busy day for JFK:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1963-kennedy.html

Executive Order 11127
Creating an emergency board to investigate a dispute between the Florida East Coast Railway Company and certain of its employees

- Signed: November 9, 1963
- Federal Register page and date: 28 FR 12079; November 13, 1963
- Revoked by: EO 12553, February 25, 1986

http://www.wosu.org/archive/jfk/life.php

[snip] Just as they had at the first Kennedy state dinner, the bagpipes graced the last one: on November 13, 1963, the famous Royal Highland Regiment, The Black Watch, presented a special program of piping, marching, and spirited dancing on the South Lawn. Guests for the afternoon were 1,700 children from child-care agencies served by the United Givers Fund, and they managed to devour over 10,000 cookies. “I don’t know when I have seen the President enjoy himself more,” wrote Jackie Kennedy to Major W. M. Wingate-Gray. “The ceremony was one of the most stirring we have ever had at the White House.” [end]

http://www.wosu.org/archive/jfk/highlights.php

[snip] November 13: President and Mrs. Kennedy join 1,700 children on the South Lawn for a performance by the Pipes and Drums of the Black Watch of the British Army. [end]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/viet11.htm

[snip] Vietnam War: The Documents - 11: Nov. 13, 1963 cable outlines plans for Honolulu Conference on the Vietnam situation — The Honolulu Conference, as the cable below indicates, involved top U.S. policy makers (although not the President) and undertook a thorough review of U.S. policy in Vietnam. Note that it looks for “improved prosecution of the war under the new government,” and a reduction of U.S. military forces by the end of 1965. [end]


50 posted on 04/21/2008 5:59:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_____________________Profile updated Saturday, March 29, 2008)
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