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Could Conspiracies, Including the Kennedy Assassination and Others, Survive in Time of Internet?
RFFM.org ^ | April 19, 2008 | Daniel T. Zanoza

Posted on 04/19/2008 1:21:06 PM PDT by Daniel T. Zanoza

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To: george76
Conspiracy theories on the Internet exploded exponentially.

I've never heard of the Iron Mountain Report.

In 1963, I was in the high school orchestra class when over the P/A came the announcement that Kennedy had been shot. School was dismissed but it was only 10 minutes early and those of us on the HS wrestling team boarded our regular bus to head off to practice. After we got to the gym, practice was cancelled and we were sent home. School was closed for the following week.

My Grandfather who despised FDR but took a liking to Kennedy said in passing 'This is the end of the Democrats'.

I've wondered about that statement for years. Now I think he meant the Dems would change course politically away from socialism with Kennedy....but Kennedy's death gave us LBJ.


41 posted on 04/20/2008 6:55:08 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (MSM-Keelhauling the News Daily!)
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To: msnpatriot
Why would you rule out any conspiracy committed by a govt?

When did I? My point was that what you provided as evidence of a conspiracy is of weak, if any, evidentiary value. Initial news reports and eyewitness statements in the heat of the moment are notoriously inaccurate.

I've looked at the evidence, and the weight of it supports one shooter, one rifle, three shots. The evidence for any of the scads of proposed conspiracy theories is paper-thin; the lynchpin of Kennedy conspiracy theories is proving that Oswald could not have acted alone.

One by one, the claimed factors that made the shootings y Oswald impossible have been picked off. The timing of the shots, the accuracy of the shots, the "magic bullet," and so on.

Also arguing against a conspiracy is the fact that it would have necessarily involved hundreds, if not thousands, of people. A conspiracy on that scale simply does not hold up that long. That's not conclusive, but it places the burden of proof on the conspiracy theorists -- extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Judging by my research, the JFK assassination is somewhat unique in that you cannot rely on any information from the mainstream media or govt. You must go directly to the evidence and judge for yourself, and if your willing to do that I assure you that you will find conspiracy. Your own House of Representatives determined that there was most likely a conspiracy, read up on that.

A bit selective there, aren't we? The mainstream media is an unreliable source of information except for a UPI wire report immediately after the fact. The government is unreliable, except for the HSCA.

The UPI article I cited was fascinating,

Isaac Asimov short stories are fascinating. I don't accept them as factual.

and was a complete account from people on the scene. I would hardly discount the comments of the SS there, it was they who reported shots from the knoll to the media.

I don't discount the comments, but I find them outweighed by the other available evidence. I will note once again that the initial reports on a breaking news event are rarely the most accurate, and eyewitness statements in the moments after an unexpected and traumatic event are rarely reliable.

42 posted on 04/20/2008 7:45:02 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: Quix
I was just trying to note that there were no websites way back then, of course . . . but that it was still fairly obvious to many of us that a conspiracy was involved.

There was a conspiracy to hid the internet in 1963? Well since I never infered that there was an internet in 63, I must have hit you on that 1-4 glass day. And since I showed enough forensic evidence in my former post that is indisputible and trashed your ideas of any Conspiracy, I would say your not much of an expert in anything, 61 years or not! Any day you want to put you knowlede of the case verse my 46 years, lets go! But I'll bite. Prove conclusively anything that supports your conspiracy. Was it Mafia, Cubans, CIA. just 1 little shread of provable evidence. I could care less of an opinon, I'm dealing with forensics. Thats how cases are solved today. The world has been waiting over 40 years and so far all we get are opinions of what happened verses actual proof!

43 posted on 04/20/2008 11:57:40 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Bommer

Not a priority.

Enjoy the smugness.


44 posted on 04/21/2008 8:03:04 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
not a priority

It never seems to be when you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about!

45 posted on 04/21/2008 8:26:04 AM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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To: Bommer

Your unfounded haughty derisive personal assaults are sooooooo admirable.

I suppose you make judgments about conspiracies just as confidently on just as meager a batch of puzzle pieces. Impressive.

BTW, I’m curious . . . I gather you don’t believe that globalism is a force, movement, problem at all either???


46 posted on 04/21/2008 8:29:36 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: ReignOfError
My original reason for posting was to make some comments in this thread. It would take me weeks to post what I've learned regarding evidence. There have been many good threads on the JFK assassination on FR, lots of info, that I would recommend for a quick look at whats out there.

***My point was that what you provided as evidence of a conspiracy is of weak, if any, evidentiary value.***

There were countless people involved in the conspiracy, and many payed with their lives. Search Dorothy Kilgallen). Look up the death lists, the original 20 or so conspirators are now published btw, in the book Regicide (Check Amazon). Research their backgrounds. Read about the mafia ppl who lost their lives before testifying to the house. And take a look at the countless books written by people who have written about being caught in the conspiracy, especially on the street just before the event. One person found himself in the hit circle and was so shocked he staged a bank robbery so there would be proof he had done something else when it came down.

***Also arguing against a conspiracy is the fact that it would have necessarily involved hundreds, if not thousands, of people. A conspiracy on that scale simply does not hold up that long.***

Actually I thought the mainstream media did an excellent job with the story initially, until they were threatened and starting losing reporters. See Dorothy Killgalen for just one example. The public in general saw those reporters destroyed in the media, and could see the change in their attitude as events transitioned into the Garrison/Shaw case. And many in the public wondered why the media tried to destroy Garrison rather than helping him find the truth. They also wondered why the media didn't report more on the Shaw jury's agreement that there was a conspiracy.

***A bit selective there, aren't we? The mainstream media is an unreliable source of information except for a UPI wire report immediately after the fact. The government is unreliable, except for the HSCA.***

47 posted on 04/21/2008 4:53:14 PM PDT by msnpatriot
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To: Quix
Your unfounded haughty derisive personal assaults are sooooooo admirable.

Not nearly as delightful as your elitist snobbery.

I suppose you make judgments about conspiracies just as confidently on just as meager a batch of puzzle pieces. Impressive.

My judgement of a conspiracy is to look at facts, not innuendo and conjecture or half assed opinions by pseudo experts in nothing. All I get from you are glib remarks because you think you're right, but offer not a shred of hard evidence to back it up.

BTW, I’m curious . . . I gather you don’t believe that globalism is a force, movement, problem at all either???

Nice way to try to run away from the subject. Sorry I don't play that game! Gather all you want. I'm on topic and you so conveniently try to change the subject. Whats the matter? Can't back up your JFK Conspiracy convictions in the face of hard core facts?? Be gone! Your a waste of my time!

48 posted on 04/21/2008 5:15:10 PM PDT by Bommer (Hmmm who to vote for? A Far leftist? A Radical Leftist? Or a Republican that enjoys being a Leftist?)
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JFK’s fatal head wound: The truth for those who want to know (very graphic)
jmasland.com & others | 11/22/03
Posted on 11/22/2003 5:10:59 PM PST by Wolfstar
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1027256/posts


49 posted on 04/21/2008 5:50:40 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_____________________Profile updated Saturday, March 29, 2008)
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To: Quix

[snip] On November 13, while speaking at Columbus University, Pres. Kennedy stated, “The high office of the President of the United States of America has been used to foment a plot to destroy America’s freedom, and before I leave office, I must inform the citizens of their plight!” [end]

Must have been a really busy day for JFK:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1963-kennedy.html

Executive Order 11127
Creating an emergency board to investigate a dispute between the Florida East Coast Railway Company and certain of its employees

- Signed: November 9, 1963
- Federal Register page and date: 28 FR 12079; November 13, 1963
- Revoked by: EO 12553, February 25, 1986

http://www.wosu.org/archive/jfk/life.php

[snip] Just as they had at the first Kennedy state dinner, the bagpipes graced the last one: on November 13, 1963, the famous Royal Highland Regiment, The Black Watch, presented a special program of piping, marching, and spirited dancing on the South Lawn. Guests for the afternoon were 1,700 children from child-care agencies served by the United Givers Fund, and they managed to devour over 10,000 cookies. “I don’t know when I have seen the President enjoy himself more,” wrote Jackie Kennedy to Major W. M. Wingate-Gray. “The ceremony was one of the most stirring we have ever had at the White House.” [end]

http://www.wosu.org/archive/jfk/highlights.php

[snip] November 13: President and Mrs. Kennedy join 1,700 children on the South Lawn for a performance by the Pipes and Drums of the Black Watch of the British Army. [end]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/viet11.htm

[snip] Vietnam War: The Documents - 11: Nov. 13, 1963 cable outlines plans for Honolulu Conference on the Vietnam situation — The Honolulu Conference, as the cable below indicates, involved top U.S. policy makers (although not the President) and undertook a thorough review of U.S. policy in Vietnam. Note that it looks for “improved prosecution of the war under the new government,” and a reduction of U.S. military forces by the end of 1965. [end]


50 posted on 04/21/2008 5:59:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_____________________Profile updated Saturday, March 29, 2008)
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To: george76

Thanks g.


51 posted on 04/21/2008 7:02:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_____________________Profile updated Saturday, March 29, 2008)
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To: Bommer

No. I’m just not interested in digging out the data on the JFK stuff.

Maybe I can put it more simply.

I’m not THAT interested any more in the JFK thing.

You can fantasize all you wish about other issues. That happens to be the reason.

Elitist? Love it.

LOL.

I’m just an overeducated NM farm boy hick.

Again . . . enjoy the unfounded smugness as long as you can.


52 posted on 04/21/2008 8:31:46 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: SunkenCiv

I assume that most Presidents days are full most of the time.

I think the evidence is abundant toward any one of a few conspiracies. And, there may have been more than one operating. Others think the evidence leans emhaptically another direction.

Time will certainly tell. God says everything hidden will be exposed. That should be sobering enough for every individual alive.


53 posted on 04/21/2008 8:41:54 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

“God says everything hidden will be exposed.”

Quix, I look at this in a different light.

I look forward to the day when everything will be shown.


54 posted on 04/21/2008 8:44:21 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

Oh, I’ll rejoice at that day, too.

Nevertheless, I’m not at all proud of 100% of every aspect of 100% of everything I’ve ever done.

I’ve made plenty horrid mistakes a number of times in my life.

Nevertheless, I’m most infinitely thankful that Christ’s Blood covers . . . and that . . . at that point . . . it won’t make any difference who knows what.

We are all flawed miserable sinners. None of us smells greatly better than the rest of us regardless of what individual arrogance would like to believe.


55 posted on 04/21/2008 8:53:05 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

Point taken.

But, part of me thinks that on the day when everything hidden is exposed, it will matter little in the grand scheme of things.

Wishing you well, as always.


56 posted on 04/21/2008 9:02:07 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

AGREED.

And may you and yours have the best blessings of our Beloved Heavenly Father and Lord this week and spring.


57 posted on 04/21/2008 9:04:17 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Lexington Green

Interesting link.

Very interesting that he confirms the last fatal head shot came from the right front, also known as the grassy knoll.

Most folks who watch the Zapruder films agree with that, but there are a few hard core Warren spporters here who call it balderdash.

It would be MUCH, MUCH harder to pull something like that off today. Cell phones everywhere. Security cams everywhere.

Personally, I have no doubt JFK was a conspiracy. To think that a bumpkin like Oswald could pull off three of the hardest shots in history is simply ludicrous.


58 posted on 04/21/2008 9:06:05 PM PDT by djf
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To: Quix

Well-written as usual, FRiend. You said (highlight),

‘Will I take a lot of comfort when folks finally are forced to wake up as more and more of their friends are awakened at 03:00-04;00 for a “little trip with us, please. No need to take your things. It will just be a short trip. We just have some questions.”

‘Will I be comforted to finally be proven right? Not so much. I already have absolutely 0.000000% doubt about being right. I can’t be any more convinced about being right. On the whole, it will be quite sad to see it come to pass . . .

‘EXCEPT THAT, PRAISE GOD, ALMIGHTY GOD WILL ALSO BE DEMONSTRATING HIS MAJESTY MORE THAN EVER BEFORE . . . RAISING UP A STANDARD AGAINST THE ENEMY AND CAUSING HIS KIDS TO DO GREAT EXPLOITS FOR HIM AND HIS KINGDOM. THAT WILL BE GREAT CAUSE FOR REJOICING. But narrow is the way . . . ‘


59 posted on 04/21/2008 9:53:34 PM PDT by Joya (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior, have mercy on me, a sinner!)
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To: Quix

For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:2


60 posted on 04/21/2008 9:54:53 PM PDT by Joya (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior, have mercy on me, a sinner!)
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