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Blogger admits Hawaii birth certificate forgery, subverting Obama claims (Uh-oh)
Israel Insider ^ | 3 July 2008 | Reuven Koret

Posted on 07/03/2008 4:35:19 PM PDT by SE Mom

click here to read article


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To: rxsid

Hmmm - the concern of the founders was ALLEGIANCE. And it is absurd to believe that the allegiance of Rubio’s parents was with any nation but the USA, having been exiled from Cuba.

The Constitution is ABSOLUTELY silent on the definition of Natural Born. Therefore, when searching for a definition to inform us in regards to this phrase used in the Constitution, but not defined there, we must look for guidance in the common, if not universal, useage/knowledge of the time.

Considering that Blackstone’s legal commentaries is the second (to the Bible) most frequently cited source in the politically related correspondence of the founding fathers, we should then look there to inform us as to the founder’s common understanding of the term:
“The first and most obvious division of the people is into aliens and natural born subjects. Natural-born subjects are such as are born within the dominions of the crown of England, that is, within the allegiance, or as it is generally called, the allegiance of the king; and aliens, such as are born out of it. Allegiance is the tie, or ligament, which binds the subject to the king, in return for that protection which the king affords the subject.”

Again, Blackstone’s major concern in defining the term is to allegiance (and he explores this further in situations of ambassadors and such). We see the same concern for allegiance in the correspondance of the founders. I think we can confidently conclude that allegiance of the parents is of primary importance. Again, the allegiance of Rubio’s parent was obviously to the USA, not to Cuba. Unless you want to make the argument that their allegiance was to the etherial Free Cuba, and I won’t dispute that assertion. However, if this allegiance to an etherial kingdom is disqualification to the presidency, then almost every US president held office illegally; including Washington and Lincoln, because most of the presidents, and most definitely Washington and Lincoln, claimed their FIRST allegance was to the Kingdom of Heaven.


9,351 posted on 07/19/2011 3:58:30 PM PDT by GilesB
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To: mojitojoe; Las Vegas Ron; rxsid; LucyT
To be a qualified voter in 1808 Pennsylvania you must have citizen parents....but I guess the candidate for President can be the son of a foreigner....lol Photobucket http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fHJiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CncNAAAAIBAJ&pg=5377,210718&dq=natural+born+citizen&hl=en
9,352 posted on 07/19/2011 4:00:29 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1

The candidate for President today can be the son of a foreigner..


9,353 posted on 07/19/2011 4:32:13 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: GilesB
"the concern of the founders was ALLEGIANCE"

True. Why, then, would they not have been very concerned about someone who was born with FOREIGN allegiance? They were, which is why they put in the "strong check" against that foreign intrigue.

Even the modern day State Department rules discusses the problems associated with dual citizenship:

7 FAM 081: U.S. Policy on Dual Nationality:

(e)While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Dual nationality may hamper efforts by the U.S. Government to provide diplomatic and consular protection to individuals overseas. When a U.S. citizen is in the other country of their dual nationality, that country has a predominant claim on the person.

...

the U.S. Supreme Court has stated that dual nationality is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both." See Kawakita v. United States, 343 U.S. 717 (1952).

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86563.pdf

And this...

US State Department Services Dual Nationality

... The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there...

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

The framers would not have considered the new citizens of the republic to be analogous to the subjects of the British crown.

For one thing, most subjects were never eligible to be the King (or Queen). However, all natural born Citizens would be eligible if they meet the age and residency requirements.

Furthermore, in 1787, English Subjects owed perpetual allegiance to the King whereas natural law (i.e. Law of Nations) tells us that citizens may "quit" their country and citizenship.

When the Deceleration of Independence and the Constitution were written, English subjects could not renounce their allegiance to the one sovereign, the crown:

"Natural allegiance is such as is due from all men born within the king's dominions immediately upon their birth. For, immediately upon their birth, they are under the king's protection; at a time too, when (during their infancy) they are incapable of protecting themselves. Natural allegiance is therefore a debt of gratitude; which cannot be forfeited, cancelled, or altered, by any change of time, place, or circumstance, nor by any thing but the united concurrence of the legislature. An Englishman who removes to France, or to China, owes the same allegiance to the king of England there as at home, and twenty years hence as well as now. For it is a principle of universal law, that the natural-born subject of one prince cannot by any act of his own, no, not by swearing allegiance to another, put off or discharge his natural allegiance to the former: for this natural allegiance was intrinsic, and primitive, and antecedent to the other; and cannot be devested without the concurrent act of that prince to whom it was first due. Indeed the natural-born subject of one prince, to whom he owes allegiance, may be entangled by subjecting himself absolutely to another; but it is his own act that brings him into these straits and difficulties, of owing service to two masters; and it is unreasonable that, by such voluntary act of his own, he should be able at pleasure to unloose those bands, by which he is connected to his natural prince."
William Blackstone, Commentaries 1:354, 357--58, 361--62

How, then, did they declare their Independence from the King if they owed a perpetual allegiance to the crown that could not be "forfeited, cancelled, or altered" under English Common law?

They used the principles found in natural law. Vattel states, in the Law of Nations (which is based on natural law), that citizens may renounce (or quit) their citizenship, and thus allegiance, to a country:

"Chapter XIX: Of Our Native Country And Several Things That Relate To It
§ 220. Whether a person may quit his country.

... 1. The children are bound by natural ties to the society in which they were born; they are under an obligation to show themselves grateful for the protection it has afforded to their fathers … They ought, therefore, to love it, as we have already shown, to express a just gratitude to it, and requite its services as far as possible, by serving it in turn … But every man is born free; and the son of a citizen … may examine whether it be convenient for him to join the society for which he was destined by his birth. If he does not find it advantageous to remain in it, he is at liberty to quit it ..."

The founders could never have written the Declaration of Independence had they relied upon English Common law.

The problems associated with dual nationals, those that owe allegiance to two countries should be obvious.

One example of the issues surrounding dual nationality is the case of Boston born Ugo Da Prato who's father had naturalized prior to his birth. A Senator and the state department had to get involved because had the son been born before the father was naturalized, Italian law would have required the son to serve in the (Italian) military.

By the way, if they had relied upon England's common law (which incorporated some natural law as well) by what authority did they declare their independence from the mother country if their common law expressly forbade it?

9,354 posted on 07/19/2011 5:11:10 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid

Marco Rubio was not born with dual citizenship nor dual allegiance, to my knowledge. His parents, at the time of his birth, owed their allegiance to the USA - ONLY.

Re: ‘By the way, if they had relied upon England’s common law (which incorporated some natural law as well) by what authority did they declare their independence from the mother country if their common law expressly forbade it?”

This is a red herring - and I suspect you know it. I never claimed that they relied on British Common Law - simply that they relied on Blackstone’s definition of Natural Born - a definition with which they were all well aquainted. I.e. We currently don’t tediously reference Webster’s for each word we use in debate, conversation or communication. We rely on a common understanding of the language between ourselves and our audience. Such is obviously the case in the use of Natural Born Citizen in the Constitution - since it is not expressly defined, the framers relied on the common understanding of the definition of the word, and since contemporaneous correspondence between the framers referenced Blackstone so often, we can confidently cite his definition of the phrase - not as a legal construct, but simply as the definition of the term.

Every other argument used to define the term either uses much later (50 - 100 yrs) definitions, or uses sources less frequently mentioned (Vattel) in the founders’ correspondence.

With no specific mention of which meaning was intended (and they were certainly aware of the differences), and since we both agree that allegiance was the primary concern, and since Blackstone’s definition deals directly and primarily with allegiance, our best assumption is that Blackstone’s was the common definition at the time.

Original meaning, my friend, and the best evidence of the original meaning of the founders says Rubio is eligible for the presidency. Unless, of course, Mama Rubio used a spinal block during childbirth, which would mean Marco was not “natural born” :)

Don’t be so anxious to deny Obama legitimacy that you deny others their rightful claims. There are other, more sound and fruitful avenues. For instance, Obama’s father obviously did not owe his allegiance to the USA - hang your hat on allegiance, not a fine straining of the thin soup, Vattel vs Blackstone. Neither would view Obama as a natural born citizen.


9,355 posted on 07/19/2011 5:54:57 PM PDT by GilesB
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To: bgill

I assume that whoever put out the videos knows a bit more than he’s revealing at the moment.


9,356 posted on 07/19/2011 6:38:24 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: mojitojoe

who paid for all his expensive education,
_________________
student loans for the affirmative action foreign student


What about Punahou. Someone paid for that. Very expensive school. And his trips back and forth from Indonsia to HI.


9,357 posted on 07/19/2011 6:40:16 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah
The way he got into Punahua school was with a scholarship. That's been said by classmates and others. One who said it is the Dr. Richard Kelly, the CEO/owner of Outrigger Hotels in the link below. The Kelly family and zero's teacher, Mabel Hefty, have gone on missions to Kenya for decades. Madelyn's bank boss was a school trustee so that was her "in" with the school. Remember, zero told everyone he was an African Prince so all Madelyn had to do was prance Sr. in front of the trustees and poof! little Barry had a free ride. Classmates recall Sr. visited the school and gave a talk. The Dunhams weren't out a dime nor was any other mysterious X commie underground backing organization.

He most likely got into Occidental merely by graduating from a exclusive private HI high school and playing the foreign student card. It probably wasn't until Columbia that Frank Davis began pulling strings. I simply don't believe zero was groomed for anything before Columbia.

http://saturdaybriefing.outrigger.com/chairman_briefing/school-choice-helped-launch-barack-obama%e2%80%99s-success/

9,358 posted on 07/20/2011 9:28:54 AM PDT by bgill
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To: bgill; LucyT

Okay, I checked the website. First of all, it’s a drooling, trembling and fawning obeisance to 0bama. So therefore automatically in the “Propaganda” file. IOW, only believable if it can be verified independently with authentic documentation. Here are the quotes referencing Punahou and claimed scholarship. Oh, and considering he states as fact stuff that is known to be made up, I see no reason to accept his word about scholarship or anything else. Or the words of a couple of classmates who were no doubt coached etc. Sheesh.


Barack Obama’s links to Hawaii are many and deep. He was born August 4, 1961, at Kapi‘olani Medical Center in Honolulu. His father was a Kenyan who had come here to study at the University of Hawaii. His mother, Ann Dunham, was a Kansas-born U.H. student whose parents lived in Honolulu. After his parents’ 1963 divorce, he spent several years in Indonesia with his mother and new stepfather before returning to Hawaii in 1971 at age 10 to live with his maternal grandparents in Honolulu. He enrolled in Punahou School, a private K-12 institution near Waikiki, founded by missionaries in 1841.

I knew his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, who sadly passed away just two days before the election. Madelyn was a vice president at the Bank of Hawaii. She was a very competent, accurate, and no-nonsense woman who handled several escrow closings on real estate transactions with which I was involved. No matter how complicated the deal was, I always knew that if Madelyn handled the escrow details, everything would be in order.

Madelyn’s boss was the bank’s CEO, Frank Manaut, who served with me as a trustee of Punahou School. It seems likely that Madelyn’s connection with Frank played a role in Barack’s enrollment at Punahou with a scholarship.


9,359 posted on 07/20/2011 10:58:57 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: mojitojoe

Zero has two left hands - one in his lap and one holding hands with whatshisface. Don't know the purpose of the photoshop, but it's been faked. Besides that, who would want a wookie kiss, ewww!

9,360 posted on 07/20/2011 12:00:24 PM PDT by bgill
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To: GilesB
I suspect that Miami was part of the US at the time he was born - which, of course, would make him a natural born citizen.

And here we go... again...

9,361 posted on 07/20/2011 12:02:56 PM PDT by bgill
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To: bgill; maggief; LucyT

Maggief - this photo has been discussed and looked at a lot. I don’t remember any claims that the handholding was photoshopped. What evidence for the clasped hands being shopped is there?

I know one place - NYT??? - had the photo shopped to remove the boyfriend, but that’s the only shopping in relation to this photo that I recall. Maybe you remember or know more about any photoshopping connected with this picture.

Bgill - how can you say for sure it is either shopped or that there are two left hands? Zero’s hand that clasping his boyfriend’s would be a left hand since that is his left side. The other hand on the couch doesn’t look like a left hand. You mean the pinkish thing touching his pants leg?


9,362 posted on 07/20/2011 12:09:48 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: GilesB
The Constitution is ABSOLUTELY silent on the definition of Natural Born.

It doesn't tell us what the meaning of "is" is either because it's not a dictionary. Of course, the intent of the definition is what it was in 1776 and where the founding fathers became familiar with the term - Vattel, Blackstone, etc.

9,363 posted on 07/20/2011 12:12:35 PM PDT by bgill
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To: bushpilot1

For those who still can’t understand, your link also makes a distinction between naturalized and natural born citizen. It also shoots down that tired argument that the founding fathers weren’t natural born citizens and that comma in the Constitution by requiring a 1776 US residence. I’d say that clears up any argument. Good find.


9,364 posted on 07/20/2011 12:21:03 PM PDT by bgill
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To: little jeremiah

Perhaps. Or perhaps its just more unsubstantiated fluff.


9,365 posted on 07/20/2011 12:23:29 PM PDT by bgill
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To: little jeremiah
You mean the pinkish thing touching his pants leg?

Yes, the pinkish thing with fingers.

9,366 posted on 07/20/2011 12:27:12 PM PDT by bgill
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To: bgill

I see two hands with fingers, and one pinkish thing without any fingers touching his pants leg on his left side (the side snuggling up with boyfriend. I do not see three pinkish objects with fingers. Could you be more clear?


9,367 posted on 07/20/2011 1:10:30 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: bgill
Or perhaps its just more unsubstantiated fluff.

Such as the claim by an 0bama bootlicker that 0bama had a Punahou scholarship, with no scrap of evidence, and taking that as fact.

9,368 posted on 07/20/2011 1:17:24 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah

Ok, so you see the pink thing between zero’s left left and his friend’s right leg? That would be zero’s upturned wrist/palm.

Now, look at the inside of zero’s left knee and right below his boot (the crotch area). See, there’s two pink upward curved pink things. Those would be fingers which are attached to the first pink thing aka wrist. Zero’s first left hand is laying upturned in his lap.

As for zero’s 2nd left hand, the friend’s right hand holding the cig/joint/whatever has too many fingers.

Two left hands = photoshopped


9,369 posted on 07/20/2011 1:27:42 PM PDT by bgill
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To: bgill; maggief

Hmm, maybe the two pinkish things you mention are the photoshopped parts. Or they’re something else. If there is photoshopping done, it is not clear what is photoshoppsed. I don’t remember seeing the two pinkish things in his lap before, maybe Maggief will show up, she has the definitive photo.


9,370 posted on 07/20/2011 3:35:38 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: bgill

“It doesn’t tell us what the meaning of “is” is either because it’s not a dictionary. Of course, the intent of the definition is what it was in 1776 and where the founding fathers became familiar with the term - Vattel, Blackstone, etc.”

Exactly my argument - I further made the case that since the founders cited Blackstone more frequently than Vattel, that any differences in their respective definitions of the term must resolve in favor of Blackstone’s; his writings being more frequently cited and presumably more widely (commonly) familiar to all signers.


9,371 posted on 07/20/2011 3:45:41 PM PDT by GilesB
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To: bgill
He most likely got into Occidental merely by graduating from a exclusive private HI high school and playing the foreign student card. It probably wasn't until Columbia that Frank Davis began pulling strings.

Zero and the Dunhams were closely associated with Frank Marshall Davis since Zero first came back to HI from Indonesia. If you don't see a connection between communist backing earlier than when he was in Columbia, there is no rationale for that other than bare nekkid opinion.

9,372 posted on 07/20/2011 3:52:48 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: mojitojoe
supposedly written by Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Hussein Soetoro and probably really written by William Ayers.

I don't think he has the IQ to write much of anything. But, I do think he has 'street smarts' because he, and his whole family, spent their lives 'working the system'. Urkle the fraud should be in jail, not in OUR House!!!

If you think back to when the MSM first started their propoganda about him, their story was that his mother was just a nice girl from Kansas. That was it. They kept telling that story a little too long though b/c other things started coming out about where she lived, etc. and the MSM was still stuck on "she was a nice girl that grew up in Kansas".

9,373 posted on 07/20/2011 6:56:25 PM PDT by southernsunshine
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To: southernsunshine
But, I do think he has 'street smarts' because he, and his whole family, spent their lives 'working the system'

YES!

While most classify Baraq as a hard left academic, the fact is that he has a "masters" in "operations" from the Chicago political mob, the folks who wrote the book on corruption.

He intimidated the Clintons and their vaunted private detective operation in 08 - no small thing.

9,374 posted on 07/20/2011 7:05:05 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation
While most classify Baraq as a hard left academic, the fact is that he has a "masters" in "operations" from the Chicago political mob, the folks who wrote the book on corruption.

Urkle is no academic. Heck, I'm a major lightweight among some serious intelligence here at FR, and even I could put him to shame in the academic realm. Your 'masters' in 'ops' from the Chicago mob is spot on! He received his undergrad from his family. Those people, including him, 'worked the system' all their lives. He was a natural for what the Chicago gang had to teach him after he graduated from home.

He intimidated the Clintons and their vaunted private detective operation in 08 - no small thing.

I think the Chicago mob has something on Bubba and/or Hildabeast. They wouldn't have to look too hard to find something on either of those two.

9,375 posted on 07/20/2011 7:51:56 PM PDT by southernsunshine
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To: little jeremiah
it is not clear what is photoshoppsed

We have a winner! Yes, they've been there as long as I can remember. The two hand thing has been out there for a long while. It's crazy some 12 year old has been let loose on practically every pic of him. Just like the bc and other documents. It's all smoke and mirrors. That's the whole point, to make things so obvious and so often that no one knows what the real problem was that was fixed.

9,376 posted on 07/20/2011 10:07:48 PM PDT by bgill
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To: little jeremiah

Sure, Davis was in his life but as for some sort of community/political string pulling early on, I don’t see it. It’s hardly worth anyone’s time to put in much effort into a three year old when you have no idea how he might turn out. He could have failed first grade and never learned to add 2+2 for all anyone knew at such an early age. “They” wouldn’t have known if he’d turn into some street urchin in Indonesia. Too many kids reach 15-18 go bonkers and there’s no dealing with them. They’re all into themselves and think they know it all. Then there was his drug use. Who’s to tell if he’d become so addicted he couldn’t cope or get thrown in jail or worse. No, any real $$$ investment would have been once they knew what sort of adult he’d become.


9,377 posted on 07/20/2011 10:20:14 PM PDT by bgill
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To: bgill
Sure, Davis was in his life but as for some sort of community/political string pulling early on, I don’t see it.

Ahem. A ten year old, not three year old. Ten year olds and up are very influenceable. Add to that the fact that Race Bannon saw him when he was around 18 and he already wanted to be president and said he was born in Mombasa. You can have your bare nekkid opinion, but I'm not buying it.

9,378 posted on 07/20/2011 10:57:12 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: bgill

That photo IS NOT photo shopped so don’t even start. I’m not spending my day proving you wrong. Go search for that picture. It was originally posted by the NYT. Do you think they photo shopped it? There is an entire thread here on FR discussing the “hand” think.


9,379 posted on 07/21/2011 9:55:25 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: bgill

That photo IS NOT photo shopped so don’t even start. I’m not spending my day proving you wrong. Go search for that picture. It was originally posted by the NYT. Do you think they photo shopped it? There is an entire thread here on FR discussing the “hand” thing.


9,380 posted on 07/21/2011 9:55:39 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: bgill

That photo IS NOT photo shopped so don’t even start. I’m not spending my day proving you wrong. Go search for that picture. It was originally posted by the NYT. Do you think they photo shopped it? There is an entire thread here on FR discussing the “hand” thing.


9,381 posted on 07/21/2011 9:55:39 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: bgill

They are not holding hands. You do not see 2 hands being held. Get a good photo editing program, enlarge it and you will see.


9,382 posted on 07/21/2011 9:58:15 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: bgill
Like this one better? Photobucket
9,383 posted on 07/21/2011 10:03:16 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: mojitojoe
I kinda think this one is more revealing of what Barry bass turd is:


9,384 posted on 07/21/2011 10:07:48 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: mojitojoe

You forgot to delete the fingers.


9,385 posted on 07/21/2011 10:20:18 AM PDT by bgill
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To: Dog Gone
"It doesn't matter where Obama was born. If his mother was a US citizen, then he is."

WRONG~! At the time of his birth she was under age 18 and so unable to confer citizenship to him

My best friend at work was born in UK to american mother age 17 and english father- he could not get a US passport to go on a business trip with us.

9,386 posted on 07/21/2011 10:40:59 AM PDT by Mr. K (CAPSLOCK! -Unleash the fury! [Palin/Bachman 2012- unbeatable ticket])
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To: little jeremiah; mojitojoe; MHGinTN
It probably wasn't until Columbia that Frank Davis began pulling strings.

The pedophile FMD started pulling the strings in HI when 0b0z0 was just a boy.

The "strings" weren't the strings of power, rather, the strings of briefs.

The pictures in #9383 and #9384 confirm this finding.

9,387 posted on 07/21/2011 11:03:57 AM PDT by melancholy (Papa Alinsky, Enslavement Specialist)
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To: bgill

whatever


9,388 posted on 07/21/2011 11:26:14 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: melancholy

It’s not a coincidence that followers of evil philosophies/belief systems such as Islam and marxism are often sexual perverts as well. Evil consciousness seeps into all facets of a person’s existence.


9,389 posted on 07/21/2011 11:26:29 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: bgill
It’s hardly worth anyone’s time to put in much effort into a three year old when you have no idea how he might turn out.

Right, unless the child was special because of his famous or infamous lineage. For example, the son of a courageous man who had no other male heirs. A son conceived out of wedlock to an underage mother who was impressed by the father's cult following and activist power of the time. The son of a Leader of a Nation. A son used as a pawn in a serious game of knighthood. A boy of three-and-a-half, whose mother only revealed the identity of his father after his untimely death... and a child who was used as a bargaining chip. A boy with a secret known to a few, but when revealed it is instantly understood how so much would be done by so many to pave his way into power for the future. The Great Race Healer! The Man of Peace! The One to Unify the World!

Malikah (mah-LEE'-kah)

Malia (məˈliːə)

Or, BHO, Sr. was an African King.

9,390 posted on 07/21/2011 3:18:43 PM PDT by Rona_Badger (Heeds the Calling Wind)
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To: GilesB

Where did Sir William Blackstone define “natural born Citizen” in his commentaries on the laws of England?


9,391 posted on 07/21/2011 5:13:48 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: GilesB
Furthermore, is Arny...the former CA govenator eligibile?

According to you, he is.

Is he?

9,392 posted on 07/21/2011 5:20:23 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: rxsid
You are obviously too stupid to have any inkling of what I think, since you are unable to follow a fairly simple cogent, logical argument without leaping 7 or 8 track over, so I will thank you to not speculate about what is or isn't ‘according to (me)’!

Your reading comprehension is nonexistent - and since you want to pick and choose anything from anywhere to attribute to my viewpoint, this will be my last comment to you.

Listen carefully - I have never stated, I have never implied, nor have I ever heard anybody claim, that a person born in one country, to citizens of that country, could be considered a natural born citizen of ANOTHER country. Your question is stupid and infantile. Arnold was born in Thal, Austria. HINT (I can see you're struggling with the connection): Austria <> USA - look it up, they are two different countries - FOR REALS BRAH! Look up the math symbols too, while you're at it, I don't want to leave anything to chance - and in that vein, let me clue you to something your goose-brain might have forgotten: Rubio was born in Miami AND MIAMI IS A CITY IN THE USA!!!

How in all heaven do you claim that my argument on behalf of Rubio (born in the USA, remember?) also argues in favor of Schwarzenegger (born in Austria - that's a few lines back, so you probably forgot that one)??????

Your inanity is childish. Your vapid attempt at straw-man sophistry is infantile! If your cognitive powers are representative of our current crop of natural born citizens, your very existence argues in favor of allowing ONLY naturalized citizens to serve as president!

The obvious stupidity of your question hurts your larger argument and gives credence to those who dump birthers in the the tin-foil-hat drawer.

BTW, sonny boy, it's “Arnie” (SHEESH! What kind of children are we raising here anyway?)

9,393 posted on 07/21/2011 6:00:00 PM PDT by GilesB
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To: rxsid

I know, I said I wouldn’t - but since this question came first, I will grant it my royal dispensation.

Another STUPID and childishly nitpicking question:
Blackstone defined Natural Born Subjects, but being citizens not subjects, any THINKING PATRIOT of the time was certainly able to ferret out the meaning of a natural born citizen from Blackstone’s definition of natural born subject...because, you see, he was defining “NATURAL BORN”, you imbecile, not “subject” nor “citizen”! Take my word for it, because you have already proven yourself unable to follow a structured, reasonable argument - so I won’t waste my fingertips.

BTW - if anybody other than rxsid wants to pursue the interesting questions regarding the “natural born” qualifier, I am happy to entertain and engage thoughtful, cogent, logical questions and arguments - but I will not suffer the kind of idiotic, playground tongue-sticking, thumbs-in-ears-finger-wagging, neener-neener waste of band width offered by rxsid in his last two.


9,394 posted on 07/21/2011 6:27:15 PM PDT by GilesB
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To: LucyT

...”Kenya was a country that was under British rule for many years, and when Obama was born, information on his birth record would have been given in metric measurements: height, weight, etc. The document I have seen has it in inches and pounds, so it’s totally fraudulent.”

Britain was pounds and ounces and inches till the 70’s and Kenya was when Obamalot was born. The interview is a diversionary red herring.


9,395 posted on 07/22/2011 12:14:24 PM PDT by plenipotentiary (Obama was a BRITISH SUBJECT at birth, passed to him via Pops, can't be NBC)
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To: GilesB
LMAO! WOW!!

Your some piece of work aren't you?

Your rant only proves one thing. You know far less on this subjet that you think you know.

You claim Sir William Blackstone is the source for definition for "natural born Citizen."

1. Quote Blackstone's commentaries, from where he defines a natural born Citizen

and, lets look at another class of citizen. The naturalized citizen (like Arny, <--intended spelling).

2. In the Statute 7 Anne, ch. 5: "All persons born out of the ligeanceof Her Majesty, who shall qualify themselves (etc., as therein provided) shall be deemed, adjudged and taken to be natural born subjects of Ireland, to all intents, constructions and purposes, as if they had been born within the said kingdom." So in the Statute 13 Geo. II.. ch. 5, naturalizing foreigo Protestants in America, it is enacted that they "shall be deemed, adjudged and taken, to be His Majesty's natural born subjects, to all intents, purposes and constructions, as if they had been born within this kingdom." So again, by 2 Geo. III., 25, certain foreign officers and soidiers, who had served in America, are naturalized in the same words, "to be deemed and adjudged, as if they had been born within the realm." These seem to be the uniform opera tive words; and their legal effect, as stated by all the authorities is, "that an alien is put in exactly the same state as if he had been born in the King's dominions," 2 Bl. Com., 374; or, in the language of Ld. Coke, "is to all intents and purposes a natural born subject." From the very words employed, then (unless there be some restrictive condition added) every such naturalization must relate back to the time of birth of the individual. The naturalized subject is, in the eye of the English law, one native 354*] *born.

Certainly if you opine that Sir William Blackstone was the source for the definition for natural born Citizen because the framers contorted the idea of a subject into that of a citizen when instead of simply using the definition for "natural born Citizen" provided to them from a source the relied upon to declare independence and when "raising a state"...that you MUST believe that he was their source for who is a naturalized citizen and what they are. Right? Because, if Blackstone was it, Arny would be eligible because English law said he would be considered a "natural born Subject."

So, your saying you believe Sir William Blackstone was NOT the source of our laws on naturalization? If he wasn't, then from where did they get their views on naturalization?

9,396 posted on 07/26/2011 4:27:41 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: GilesB
Where did Sir William Blackstone define a citizen who was natural born?
9,397 posted on 07/26/2011 4:29:55 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: All
OBAMA ELIGIBILITY HEARING TO BE STREAMED LIVE STARTING AT 0900 EST

Georgia Administrative Court, 26 January 2012.

9,398 posted on 01/26/2012 5:11:15 PM PST by bvw
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To: All
http://www.wltz.com/story/16610187/ga-judge-hears
GA judge hears Obama's citizenship case

Updated: Thursday, January 26, 2012 4:19 PM EST

Atlanta, GA (WXIA) - A hearing wrapped up this morning to determine if President Obama can be on Georgia's ballot this November.

The president was actually called to the Administrative Court in Georgia. Subpoenaed to show up.

A complaint was filed with the Secretary of State's office challenging the president's citizenship and therefore the legality of having his name on the ballot.

The president did not attend but that didn't stop the hearing from going on. Similar complaints have been filed in other states. None have been successful.

President Obama has long made his birth certificate and other documents proving his citizenship available to the public.

The Georgia complaint wants to keep Obama's name off the state's presidential primary ballot in march.

Attorney Orly Taitz said, "Mr. Obama had an opportunity to appeal here and show valid documents, certified documents with embossed seal of his birth certificate."

There has not been a date set for the decision to be released.


9,399 posted on 01/26/2012 5:19:15 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw
.

. . . . BOOKMARK

.

9,400 posted on 02/23/2012 10:36:21 AM PST by LucyT
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