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Whether or Not I Know for Sure: How NCIS Got Its Man in
Fallujah Murder Case
Defend Our Marines ^
| July 15, 2008
| Nathaniel R. Helms
Posted on 07/15/2008 11:55:34 AM PDT by RedRover
click here to read article
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Most recent Fallujah threads:
1
posted on
07/15/2008 11:55:34 AM PDT
by
RedRover
To: 4woodenboats; American Cabalist; AmericanYankee; AndrewWalden; Antoninus; AliVeritas; ardara; ...
For more on the Fallujah case, see HERE.
2
posted on
07/15/2008 11:58:14 AM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
To: RedRover; jagusafr; Girlene
I can try and give you an answer but its just going to be an answer, whether or not I know for sure.
It is criminal to charge someone on the basis of such a statement as the above.
He just said that he's not sure if anything happened at all.
3
posted on
07/15/2008 12:06:39 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
To: RedRover
People can get away with murder here because of upbringing, or domestic abuse but combatants aren’t allowed some consideration in a combat situation. I don’t know all the facts of this case, and this article isn’t exactly clear. More like a part 2 and assumes the reader has been following the case from the beginning, but I am questioning the rational behind this murder charge. Improper conduct? Maybe, murder? I don’t know.
To: xzins; RedRover
a few hours after his squad crossed the line of departure on November 9, 2004 to attack Fallujah, Iraq.
I'm wondering if this incident, how it went down, how Weemer remembers things vs. others has more to do with the shock of his first kill in Fallujah. As the days went along and until he was evacuated from Hell House, everything may have been jumbled with the fog of so much action. But this first incident may have been a traumatic ordeal that became larger in his own mind since it was his introduction to this horrific battle. Pure speculation on my part.
5
posted on
07/15/2008 12:36:18 PM PDT
by
Girlene
To: RedRover
Marine Sgt. Ryan Weemer is accused of murdering an enemy combatant
Seems to me the key phrase would be enemy combatant. It's ludicrious to me that this is a case that is even being taken seriously.
6
posted on
07/15/2008 1:06:25 PM PDT
by
IMissPresidentReagan
(Americans are not quitters, Congressman Hastings, we find a way to win! - allenwestforcongress.com)
To: autumnraine
The article is part of an ongoing series. There’s more info at the links above, but here’s the 411...
Sgt Ryan Weemer got the stuffing shot out of him in Fallujah along with other members of Kilo Co., 3/1.
He left the Corps when his stint was up and applied for a job with the Secret Service. As part of the screening process, he was asked whether he’d taken part in unlawful killings in Iraq. Weemer replied, “Well, there was this one time...” And he proceeded to tell a hazy story.
Secret Service alerted NCIS and Weemer unwisely waived his legal rights and spoke to them. This article is about the result of that interrogation, or as the government calls it a “confession”.
Weemer was recalled to duty so he could be prosecuted under military law.
NCIS agents also spoke to another Marine sergeant, Jermaine Nelson, under similar circumstances and have a “confession” from him as well.
A third Marine, Jose Nazario, was implicated. He had already lefr the Corps and so is being charged in civilian court.
Both Nelson and Weemer have recanted their “confessions” and refused to testify against him.
Nazario will be tried in federal court during the third week in August. Nelson will be court martialed in December. Weemer only recently had an Article 32 hearing and a court martial date hasn’t been set.
It’s going to be a strange murder trial. There’s no body, no forensic evidence, not even a complaint about a missing person. And no witness testimony aside from these dodgy “confessions”.
7
posted on
07/15/2008 1:40:52 PM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
To: RedRover
Oh this is ridiculous! Who do I call to help this boy?
To: autumnraine
You could start by visiting the Weemer's family website
HERE.
Ryan's dad is a Freeper though he's been a tad busy lately. I'll see if I can get any more concrete thoughts from him for action!
9
posted on
07/15/2008 2:39:04 PM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
To: RedRover
Yes, I want to help.
My stepfather is retired military and he is very activist oriented for the military. I will also tell him about this.
Thanks for posting, this is an outrage!
To: autumnraine
You and your stepdad can always look for the latest on the case at DefendOurMarines.org (click on the Fallujah) link at the top of the page. I’ll also keep people posted here and will let you know if I hear anything from Ryan’s dad.
I couldn’t put it better, this is an outrage.
11
posted on
07/15/2008 3:14:25 PM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
To: RedRover
After Weemer and Nelson waived their right to legal counsel....Subsequently, after obtaining legal counsel....I don't understand.
To: Lancey Howard
Weemer and Nelson only lawyered up AFTER they gave statements to NCIS.
Bad timing. They both have lawyers now but the damage’s already been done.
13
posted on
07/15/2008 4:10:12 PM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
To: All
14
posted on
07/15/2008 6:36:54 PM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
To: RedRover
More witch hunts in the making to somehow make at least some of our brave fighting men look bad that some hope could somehow point discredit to our fighting forces. This PC is going to make our military people gun shy when their lives are at stake.
15
posted on
07/15/2008 6:50:15 PM PDT
by
Marine_Uncle
(Duncan Hunter was our best choice...Now we are left with a bunch of idiots.)
To: RedRover; Girlene; jagusafr; jazusamo; jude24; brityank; Lancey Howard; 4woodenboats; ...
Here's a fascinating account that gives some idea of the fog that is in a warrior's brain when trying to recount what exactly happened in an engagement. Also look at how others understand what he's saying versus what he might have thought he was saying. The "thumb/hand" exchange stands out. My experience says that people don't remember "verbatim accounts" that well. They sort of fill them in based as much on impression and emotion as on fact. Former Navy SEAL says he misspoke on details of Afghan battle http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=56176 By Jeff Schogol, Stars and Stripes Mideast edition, Wednesday, July 16, 2008 ARLINGTON, Va. A former Navy SEAL who was the only member of his team to survive a fierce fight with the Taliban didnt get everything quite right when he recounted the battle and his subsequent rescue at an event this spring in Washington. Marcus Luttrell, who was awarded the Navy Cross for his actions in Afghanistan, spoke April 24 at the Army and Navy Club in Washington as part of an event sponsored by the American Veterans Center. Stars and Stripes recorded Luttrells comments and included them in a profile of Navy Lt. Michael Murphy, the SEAL team leader who was awarded the Medal of Honor for exposing himself to enemy fire to call for backup. But after the story ran, Stripes learned some of what Luttrell said was wrong. Luttrell, who wrote the book "Lone Survivor" about what happened in Afghanistan, told the audience at the Army and Navy Club that one of his teammates, Petty Officer 2nd Class Matthew G. Axelson, survived for two weeks after battle, despite being shot in the head. "When they found Danny and Mikey, their bodies were decomposing, rigor mortis had set in, the whole nine yards, you can only imagine," he said. "When they found Matt people dont know about this he didnt have that. There wasnt any larva or anything like that. He survived for two weeks out there." He went on to say that Axelson had been shot seven times by the time he left Axelson. "That SOB lived for two more weeks out there with those injuries, and when they found him, he was in a clearing someone had laid him there, you know," Luttrell said. "I remember I was still in the hospital when they found him true testament to a warrior." But the date of death on Axelsons death certificate is June 28, 2005, the day of the battle, said Navy spokeswoman Lt. Cmdr. Tamsen Reese. Asked about the matter, Luttrell said he misspoke, explaining that Axelsons body was found in a different spot than when he left Axelson, leading him to think that Axelson survived a little longer than he expected. In an e-mail, Luttrell said he misspoke, explaining there was no way he could tell "the exact time he (Axelson) died or how much longer he fought and lived." He said he was sorry he "confused everyone" as to the exact time Axelson perished, but he added that no one will ever know exactly when Axelson died. Axelsons father, Corky, said an autopsy was not able to determine exactly when his son died, but Axelson did not survive for two weeks. "Hed been dead for some time when they found him," the elder Axelson said. Corky Axelson said he understands if there are some inaccuracies in Luttrells book, but he believes Luttrell got the story right for the most part. "I have no reason to believe differently," he said. But the mother of the fourth SEAL, Petty Officer 2nd Class Danny Dietz, said she had issues with the Stripes story based on Luttrells comments at the Army and Navy Club. Luttrell recalled how Dietz was shot while trying to make a radio call. "I was, Did you get that radio call off for help, and hes like, I was on the phone bro, but they blew out of my hand they blew my hand off, " Luttrell said. Cindy Dietz said her sons thumb was blown off, not his entire hand. She also took issue with Luttrells recollection of an exchange between him and Dietz after Dietz had been shot. "I was a medic, and hes like, I need some help, man, man they shot me! " Luttrell said in April. "And I was like, Well, I cant help you, because theres no medicine on the battlefield for those who dont know that. Its rounds back downrange. Thats it." Cindy Dietz said she did not think Luttrell would have told her son that he could not help him. "Marcus held my son until my son breathed his last my breath," she said. Luttrell did not respond directly to requests to comment on Cindy Dietz objections, so Stripes asked a spokesman with Navy Special Warfare Command to get in contact with him. The spokesman, Cmdr. Greg Geisen, relayed the following text message from Luttrell on the matter: "At the panel discussion I was not as specific and clear as I could have been. I apologize if my comments have caused any confusion and I will try to be more specific in the future."
16
posted on
07/16/2008 2:35:10 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
To: xzins
Yes, xzins. I can’t imagine what combat is like. Fog of combat/engagement? Absolutely. Each person’s brain/personality has its own way of dealing with trauma/tragedy.
17
posted on
07/16/2008 6:01:52 PM PDT
by
Girlene
To: xzins
I've always been fascinated at the ancient correlation between historians and the law. Even now, the rules for academically credible history and evidence in court are not so different.
For instance, Stephen Ambrose (among many others) was not an academically credible historian because he used so many direct quotes. Of course, a popular historian has to use direct quotes or he won't get many readers. But attributing exact words to a person (even if that person said he said such-and-such a thing) contaminates it as serious history.
The same rule of credibility applies to evidence in court. Anyone's memory is suspect--all the more so in a war zone.
Your example is a good one, xzins. If Nazario has the lawyers he deserves (and I believe he does), he'll never be convicted on the tape recordings of "confessions".
18
posted on
07/16/2008 7:09:56 PM PDT
by
RedRover
(DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
To: RedRover; Girlene
I really screwed up the formatting on that one, didn’t I?
I must have had html on the page and thought I didn’t.
I’ll take a mulligan, Red & Girl. Whaddayasay?
19
posted on
07/16/2008 7:16:58 PM PDT
by
xzins
(Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
To: xzins
xzins, you get a mulligan/freebie any day of the week in my book.
20
posted on
07/16/2008 7:20:52 PM PDT
by
Girlene
(Just blame it on sugar shock.)
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