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Are Conservatives Facing Another 1964?
FREEPers | 10/24/08 | Recovering_Democrat

Posted on 10/24/2008 8:52:10 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat

Fellow Freepers, I know all hope is not lost. And I do believe our numbers are stronger than the media says.

Though I do wonder if we are facing another 1964. In the sense that we have a Republican Arizona senator facing the onslaught of a liberal Democrat, liberal media and liberal Congress.

I do NOT believe John McCain represents conservatism the way Barry Goldwater represented our ideas. But I think we may be in for a "long, hard slog", as Rumsfeld once put it in another context.

The socialists/big tax and spenders may seize our government in January. And with the press and voter fraud on their side, they may hold power for a long, long time.

We spent 16 years...from 1964 until 1980...until a true conservative went into the White House. Will we not see another until 2024??

What say you?


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: 1964; dramaqueen; goldwater; handwringingthread; wilderness

1 posted on 10/24/2008 8:52:12 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
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To: Recovering_Democrat

I say that you a nattery nabob of negativity. I would be too if I read Politico and the Washington Compost.


2 posted on 10/24/2008 8:53:55 AM PDT by Perdogg (Raila Amollo Odinga - community organizer)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

In 1964, there was a conservative running for president.


3 posted on 10/24/2008 8:54:30 AM PDT by nufsed
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Oh good grief. Not only another handwringing drama queen, but one that posts a vanity! Yipppeeeee!!!

If the election were held tomorrow, McCain/Palin would win rather comfortably. Obama's only hope now is some type of DUI-like October/November surprise.

4 posted on 10/24/2008 8:54:36 AM PDT by impeachedrapist (Bill Clinton, as Arkansas Attorney General did you make Juanita Broaddrick pay for her rape kit?)
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To: Recovering_Democrat
The socialists/big tax and spenders may seize our government in January.

Actually it may be given to them by an illiterate self-obsessed electorate.

5 posted on 10/24/2008 8:58:39 AM PDT by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: impeachedrapist; Recovering_Democrat

I love the concern these drama queens (as you so drolly put it) have once the polls start to TIGHTEN. Instead of talking about how wonderful the trend has been for McCain, the large # of undecideds, etc... it’s hand-wringing.

Fascinating stuff really.


6 posted on 10/24/2008 8:59:09 AM PDT by rom (Keep Senator Government from Spreading YOUR Wealth! McCain/Palin '08!)
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Are Conservatives Facing Another 1964?

Hardly. The opponent we are facing in Barak Obama is much more dangerous to the nation than the one we were facing in 1964.

7 posted on 10/24/2008 8:59:10 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

If obama is elected and comes up with a fraud BC, then I don’t think the US as we know it will be intact in 16 years.


8 posted on 10/24/2008 9:00:05 AM PDT by Doug TX
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To: Recovering_Democrat

No. The GOP may be facing a loss against Zero, but conservatism is a different matter, not to be confused with the GOP. The “1964” type loss for conservatives came much earlier this year, when McCain clinched the nomination.


9 posted on 10/24/2008 9:00:56 AM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Pretending the Admin Moderator doesn't exist will result in suspension.)
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To: rom
We're facing another 2004, not 1964. We went through these same spasms back then.

Remind me again, please. How big was President Kerry's margin of victory?

10 posted on 10/24/2008 9:05:46 AM PDT by impeachedrapist (Bill Clinton, as Arkansas Attorney General did you make Juanita Broaddrick pay for her rape kit?)
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To: Recovering_Democrat
So the polls are tight and your screaming like chicken little.

Stop believing the OBama talking points peddled by the Obama front groups AP, Politico ,Compost, CNN !

11 posted on 10/24/2008 9:06:00 AM PDT by ncalburt
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To: Recovering_Democrat
I for one am certainly not planning for any big celebrations on Tuesday night, Wednesday morning.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly shocked, but I seriously doubt it.

12 posted on 10/24/2008 9:06:21 AM PDT by jpl (Does anybody have seven hundred billion dollars I can borrow?)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

sounds like you need to get back into your Democrats Anonymous meetings.

We are going to win. Conservatives have huge influence in the country. And we have up and comers who know how to progress the conservative agenda by speaking directly to the people.

PS- Cancel that WEEKENDER subscription to the New York Times. That Sh!t will kill you


13 posted on 10/24/2008 9:06:32 AM PDT by johncocktoasten (Obama/Biden '08, in and of itself, A Bridge To Nowhere)
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To: impeachedrapist

I am in SE FL and pretty hard core Dems who had Kerry signs in their yard plus Gore signs have McCain signs. My guess is many of these people never voted Repub.

Hillary beat Obama like a red headed stepchild in FL, OH and PA. Obama was not far behind 3rd place Edwards in FL.

A lot of those Hillary voters know Obama cheated and many are not voting for Obama for a variety of reasons including race.


14 posted on 10/24/2008 9:11:33 AM PDT by Frantzie
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To: Recovering_Democrat
I say, stop the navel gazing.

We fight until Election Day. If we lose, we keep fighting.

By now you should know that the MSM does not exist to inform, it exists to mold opinion. It's working on you.

This is no time to go wobbly.

15 posted on 10/24/2008 9:12:44 AM PDT by TonyInOhio (This is no time to go wobbly.)
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To: impeachedrapist

The GOP is facing one big demographic problem: hispanics. The hispanic vote is going to look more and more like the black vote, so within a couple of election cycles you’re going to see about 35 percent of the electorate off-limits to the GOP.

Blacks and hispanics who vote Democrat do so for one reason: more free stuff. And the Democrats will always offer more free stuff.

Any future GOP electoral victories can only arise from their recieving 70 plus percent of the white, non-jewish vote. The problem is that the white vote is getting more and more single/non-married, and that demographic has trended Democratic for a long time.

Comparing this election to 1964 is idiotic given the completely different demographic realities.


16 posted on 10/24/2008 9:12:47 AM PDT by CinnaBombs
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To: Recovering_Democrat

17 posted on 10/24/2008 9:15:11 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: Recovering_Democrat

McCain is not a conservative.


18 posted on 10/24/2008 9:15:27 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: nufsed

And LBJ was probably more conservative than the Republican candidate for President...


19 posted on 10/24/2008 9:18:52 AM PDT by Little Ray (Joe the Plumber. He's our only hope... God help him.)
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To: impeachedrapist

> McCain/Palin would win rather comfortably

Denial is the most predictable of all human response.

McCain is behind in almost every catagory that matters in gaining the electoral votes needed to win.

Period.


20 posted on 10/24/2008 9:19:05 AM PDT by bill1952 (Obama-the only one who can make me vote McCain McCain-the only one who can make me stay at home)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

The 1964 election was a year after the JFK assassination and emotions were still at a fever pitch. No one was going to beat LBJ - not Goldwater, not Ronald Reagan, no one.


21 posted on 10/24/2008 9:21:52 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: bill1952
Denial is the most predictable of all human response.

The irony of your statement is beautiful. :-)

McCain is behind in almost every catagory that matters in gaining the electoral votes needed to win.

You're beyond clueless. McCain/Palin are in much better shape electorally than the Obamessiah. A random fourth grader could grasp this, but apparently it's beyond the capabilities of far too many FReepers.

I'm very sorry you think public polls skewed far outside the realms of historical precedent are reality. Some of us are able to look at more than unrealistic public polls, which are only one small part of the equation. Oh, and they're probably the easiest to manipulate.

22 posted on 10/24/2008 9:22:58 AM PDT by impeachedrapist (Bill Clinton, as Arkansas Attorney General did you make Juanita Broaddrick pay for her rape kit?)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

yeah its 64 alright... 1864... NO WIMPING OUT NOW!!!!


23 posted on 10/24/2008 9:25:04 AM PDT by Nat Turner (Proud two term solider in the 2nd Infantry Div 84-85; 91-92)
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To: Recovering_Democrat
Are Conservatives Facing Another 1964?

No. Liberals are facing another 1896.

24 posted on 10/24/2008 9:29:04 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Recovering_Democrat

I was told that if I voted for Goldwater that we’d be stuck in a long unwinnable war and have riots in the streets. Darned if they weren’t right.


25 posted on 10/24/2008 9:30:17 AM PDT by dfwgator (I hate Illinois Marxists)
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To: Little Ray

If LBJ and JFK were running today, they’d be the republicans and McCain would be the dem. OB would be the Socialist Worker’s Party.


26 posted on 10/24/2008 9:39:58 AM PDT by nufsed
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To: Recovering_Democrat

I doubt we’re facing another 1964 (Goldwater and McCain are not analogous) — though we may be facing another 1976.

In ‘76, Republicans and conservatives had taken a beating. Watergate had forced Nixon and Agnew to resign. Gerald Ford was a weak Republican President, and caught up in the scandal for issuing pardons. Gerald Ford was a moderate, and defeated true conservative Ronald Reagan in the primaries. He squared off against a true-blue liberal in Jimmy Carter ... and lost.

The ensuing 4-years were not pretty ... but effectively demonstrated the failure of liberalism. The result was Ronald Reagan, the Shining City, and a conservative resurgence that spanned 25 years. Since then, we’ve seen 25 years of prosperity, huge tax cuts, the end of MSM dominance, the rise of Limbaugh, the fall of the USSR, the death of Saddam Hussein, and the routing of Al Quaida.

We now have a Republican party and conservative movement that has taken a beating for the last few years. We have a moderate Republican candidate that beat out more conservative counterparts in the primary (Thompson, etc). We have a true-blue liberal opponent that may win — and if he does, the ensuing 4-years won’t be pretty. But, we’ll survive ... and it will again effectively demonstrate the failure of liberalism.

And ... if Obama wins, we rebuild. We find our Reagan. We return in 2012, and start the next 25-years of conservative dominance.

H


27 posted on 10/24/2008 9:44:31 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Keep Austin Quarantined ...)
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To: bill1952

Demographics, demographics, demographics. The problem facing the GOP is that it has a declining demographic base, and it is facing electoral implosion within the next couple of election cycles, if not this one.

The GOP is the party of the white, married, childbearing middleclass, and its fortunes live and die with the ascendancy or decline of that particular demographic.


28 posted on 10/24/2008 9:49:10 AM PDT by CinnaBombs
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To: nufsed
If LBJ and JFK were running today, they’d be the republicans and McCain would be the dem. OB would be the Socialist Worker’s Party. And if pigs had wings they could fly. The world has changed, and the longer you refuse to address brute reality, the more your society will edge further toward the precipice. Deal. With. Reality.
29 posted on 10/24/2008 9:49:28 AM PDT by CinnaBombs
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To: mysterio

"She's the One," which reached #33 on the Billboard Hot 100, didn't exactly bust the charts, but it's still a solid hummer!

30 posted on 10/24/2008 9:54:46 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Hemorrhage

I wondered if the 1976 scenario is more likely, too. The difference, I think, is that ‘76 had Carter and Ford much much closer. I only asked because this race (according to the pundits) show Hussein with a much larger lead.

Though you may be correct: the 1976 repeat may be more appropro.

What I WOULD LOVE to see is a shock to the system: McCain wins, Democrat margins in the House shrink...and the body politic realize it was the Palin/grass root conservatives who made the margin.

We’ll see.

I’ve taken some grief on this thread, and that was not unexpected. But I think we have to face the likelihood this is not a good environment for conservatives. Hussein is not worshiped by the general public, but he also has done a good job of pretending he is a “regular guy”. McCain has refused to take the gloves off and show him to be a radical.

Anyway, I pray every day for the Republicans to win.


31 posted on 10/24/2008 10:07:01 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (A vote for Hussein is insane!)
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To: CinnaBombs

Take your meds, sit down for awhile, and I’ll get back to you.


32 posted on 10/24/2008 10:19:39 AM PDT by nufsed
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To: Recovering_Democrat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics

It’s the demographics, stupid. The *type* of person, generically, who votes Democrat is rapidly increasing relative to the *type* of person who votes Republican. Given the party’s current array of appeals to voter identity, the GOP is doomed to demographic oblivion. Do you really think that locked in Democrat constituencies will “see the light” if Obama were running against Ronald Reagan himself?

Hell, no. If Obama were running against Reagan he would still get 95 percent of the black and 80 percent of the hispanic vote (the hispanic vote has gotten considerably more “brown” since 1980).

Demographics. Do you people even know what the term means?

In order for the GOP to win in the future they’re going to need, at minimum, 70 percent of the non-jewish white vote. And those people are not 70 percent conservative. Not even close.


33 posted on 10/24/2008 10:54:14 AM PDT by CinnaBombs
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To: Recovering_Democrat
I’ve taken some grief on this thread, and that was not unexpected. But I think we have to face the likelihood this is not a good environment for conservatives. Hussein is not worshiped by the general public, but he also has done a good job of pretending he is a “regular guy”. McCain has refused to take the gloves off and show him to be a radical.

Exactly. And the truth is that McCain was going to be an underdog even if the economy wasn't heading into the sewer. Rarely does a party win the White House three terms in a row.

But with the economy the way it is now and about 90% of the American public feeling that the country is on the wrong track, it will take a miracle for him to pull out an upset. And it certainly doesn't help that he has run a terrible and passive campaign.

34 posted on 10/24/2008 11:05:16 AM PDT by jpl (Does anybody have seven hundred billion dollars I can borrow?)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

>> The difference, I think, is that ‘76 had Carter and Ford much much closer. I only asked because this race (according to the pundits) show Hussein with a much larger lead.

Its the same as it ever was. Zogby predicted Kerry recieving over 300 electoral votes. Gore was supposed to win. Clinton had 14 points on Dole in pre-election polls (and only won by 8).

Polling is an inexact science, and I remain unconvinced that polls and pundits are genuine (they’re all spinning).

>> What I WOULD LOVE to see is a shock to the system: McCain wins, Democrat margins in the House shrink...and the body politic realize it was the Palin/grass root conservatives who made the margin.

I think there is a legitimate chance of that. If McCain takes Pennsylvania, this race is completely different.

>> But I think we have to face the likelihood this is not a good environment for conservatives.

Politics is cyclical ... it is always darkest just before the dawn. (see 1976, for instance).

>> McCain has refused to take the gloves off and show him to be a radical.

They’ll find out ... one way or another. Whenever they do (pre or post election), conservatism sees a new dawn.

H


35 posted on 10/24/2008 11:21:13 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Keep Austin Quarantined ...)
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To: CinnaBombs

Demographics are a symptom, not the problem. Demographics are fluid, and thus can be changed. Republicans need to do a better job of changing them. African Americans weren’t always Democrats ... and there’s no reason to think they always will be Democrats. The problem is, since Reagan left office, we’ve not sold conservatism particularly well.

We need a fresh crop of flagbearers ... people to replace the Ronald Reagan’s and William F. Buckley’s of the past. People that are eloquent enough to speak to the conservative philosophy, but not so eloquent that they’re unrelatable elitists. People from across demographics. People that can speak to average Americans and Reagan Democrats about the greatness of America, economic freedom, personal liberty, and moral responsibility. People that can both explain and inspire.

Bottom line ... whether McCain wins or loses, we need to rebuild the movement.

H


36 posted on 10/24/2008 11:32:41 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Keep Austin Quarantined ...)
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To: Hemorrhage

I know the media is in the tank for Hussein. But the polls also showed the ‘rats making huge gains in 2006. And they were right. :(


37 posted on 10/24/2008 12:25:00 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (A vote for Hussein is insane!)
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