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A "Big Tent" Republican, IMO, is a RINO!
11-14-08 | philman_36

Posted on 11/14/2008 5:34:13 AM PST by philman_36

Apparently "Fox and Friends" were having some of the Republican governors on their show today after their meeting in Florida.I didn't get to catch all of their guests but I did tune in just in time to see Charlie Christ's interview. As I was watching him and listening to him speak I realized that there was an easy way to spot a RINO.

To paraphrase Gov. Christ..."I want a GOP that's inclusive. I want to allow anything and anyone under the big tent."

Well guess what, Gov. Christ, conservatism is inclusive, with a caveat. Conservatives want to associate with other conservatives no matter their race or ethnicity. The key there is conservatism. Without that base of shared beliefs and values what you get is a shifting foundation whereupon nothing can be built. "Inclusiveness" will get the GOP exactly what they have now, a watered down GOP that will continue to lose it's base because people like you are willing to sacrifice their conservative base at the altar of political correctness. Your "Big Tent" compromise is what turned the GOP into the laughing stock of conservatives everywhere and you are yet one more Republican who just doesn't seem to get it.

Perhaps you should listen to the man who was on the show before you who espoused conservatism. I didn't get to see or listen to him, but he did get a mention so I know he was on with, according to the hostess, a completely different view...called conservatism.


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Did anybody see or catch the name of the guy on before Christ? I'd like to know who that was.
1 posted on 11/14/2008 5:34:13 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

I don’t know, but like you - I did tune in in time to see Crist & his “big tent” speech. If this is the way the party is going, they can count me out.


2 posted on 11/14/2008 5:39:06 AM PST by alicewonders
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To: philman_36
"I want a GOP that's inclusive. I want to allow anything and anyone under the big tent."

I support mandatory sex-change operations for kindergardners (state funded, of course), so I feel very welcome in the GOP now. I expect you'll all work with me to advance this wonderful cause.

Owl_Eagle

“When the stock market crashed,
Franklin Roosevelt got on the television
and didn’t just talk about
the princes of greed, he said,
‘Look, here’s what happened.’"
-Slow Joe Biden

3 posted on 11/14/2008 5:39:41 AM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: philman_36

When you have a Big Tent, you end up with a three ring circus and even the doofuses who run the circus have enough sense to keep the wild animals in a cage outside the tent.


4 posted on 11/14/2008 5:44:17 AM PST by elli1
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To: philman_36

Since the election, the RNC spokespeople have been using that “bigger tent” line.

They are even saying that the Republican Party should run on spending MORE and creating bigger government.

They are so clueless. No wonder they lost in ‘06. No wonder they lost in ‘08. At this rate, they are going to give the Dems supermajorities in both chambers in ‘10.

==

If conservatives do not get control of the RNC and change its direction, they might as well hang it up or find a new home. The GOP, as is, is a lost cause.


5 posted on 11/14/2008 5:45:09 AM PST by TomGuy
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To: alicewonders
If this is the way the party is going, they can count me out.
IMO, and strictly IMO, this was one of the means in which the GOP is "feeling out" their fellow Americans.
You send out two different people with contrasting views and see which one "sticks".
Unfortunately, the fewer who comment on threads/blogs like this one means IMO, and strictly IMO, that they'll take it that Big Tent inclusiveness" wins out.
I'm hoping, like you, that maintaining a conservative belief system will prevail.
6 posted on 11/14/2008 5:45:44 AM PST by philman_36
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To: Owl_Eagle
I was trying to be serious for once, but I love the humor and get your drift. {;^)
7 posted on 11/14/2008 5:47:54 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

I’m all for being a “big tent” - on OUR terms. In other words, we hold to our principles, and the moderates come to US, not the other way around.


8 posted on 11/14/2008 5:49:24 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Nihil utile nisi quod honestum - Marcus Tullius Cicero)
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To: philman_36

The Republican Party can be a big tent. However, conservatives are the poles that hold up that tent. We all need to remember that while they are entitled to use our tent as shelter for their cocktail party, counting on them to hold up the tent will only result in the collapse of the entire structure.


9 posted on 11/14/2008 5:52:35 AM PST by perfect_rovian_storm
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To: philman_36

I mean, how much more proof do they need? I know that donations were way down until the DAY that McCain picked Sarah Palin & then they jumped way up! Can they not see the crowds she pulled? It is willful ignorance on their part. Maybe these RINOs really are Democrat plants - infiltrating to kill the party.

If that’s the case, it’s working magnificently.


10 posted on 11/14/2008 5:53:07 AM PST by alicewonders
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To: elli1
When you have a Big Tent, you end up with a three ring circus and even the doofuses who run the circus have enough sense to keep the wild animals in a cage outside the tent.
Apparently some of those "doofuses" running the circus want to let the animals lose inside the tent!
11 posted on 11/14/2008 5:53:24 AM PST by philman_36
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To: elli1
When you have a Big Tent, you end up with a three ring circus and even the doofuses who run the circus have enough sense to keep the wild animals in a cage outside the tent.

Well, the 800 pound gorilla escaped from his cage & is sitting in the middle of the tent.

12 posted on 11/14/2008 5:55:19 AM PST by alicewonders
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To: TomGuy
Since the election, the RNC spokespeople have been using that “bigger tent” line.
Which is exactly what prompted me to start this thread.
As I said earlier, IMO they're "feeling out" their fellow Americans/Republicans as to which direction they ought to go.
It's also giving us an insight into them. I won't be supportive of Christ for anything for damned sure.
At least they had on both viewpoints this morning, though I missed the other guy's interview.
13 posted on 11/14/2008 5:59:59 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36
There is merit behind having a “big tent” as long as you don't have an infinitely large tent.

There are lots of conservatives even here that I disagree with on some issues. There are many protectionists here, and I disagree with them (I support free markets), but that doesn't negate the dozens of things we agree on... small government, lower taxes, strong national defense, etc. Similarly, there are conservatives that have different views than I do about what to do about illegal immigration. That doesn't mean they aren't conservative. I think the key is to have an approach that is consistent with conservative principles, then we can discuss it. But to insist on lock-step agreement on every program idea is stifling and divisive.

I'm getting a little weary of the “RINO” charge (nice pun) being leveled against everyone in the news for a single comment. Conservatives of one ilk have to work with conservatives of another ilk to accomplish those things we agree on. The insistence on purity, defined only by “they agree with me on everything” is destructive.

One can disagree on individual issues, but we must, as a group and party, focus on those things we agree on without all the rancor. Again, I think the basis or a conservative party is whether an idea, program, position, or solution is rooted in conservative principles. Then a meaningful discussion about the differences in positions can take place.

It is political suicide to tell people they have to agree with me on everything before they can be part of my party.

14 posted on 11/14/2008 6:00:05 AM PST by TN4Liberty (The first amendment doesn't end with "...as long as nobody is offended.")
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To: philman_36

I like Charlie Crist as possibly then next GOP nominee. To be sure, he isn’t an extreme conservative as many people would prefer, but he has appeal to Independent voters.

Hopefully, he will be married and have kids by the 2012 election.

Being a right-wing ideologue is a bridge to nowhere, we need someone who knows it is 2008, not 1988.


15 posted on 11/14/2008 6:00:42 AM PST by WilliamReading
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To: philman_36

Crist is a johnboy light,almost Arnie. No way Crist would win a GOP primary here in Florida. Thank God for the conservative GOP governors.

Arnie,Crist and Pawlenty are OUT in my book.


16 posted on 11/14/2008 6:03:56 AM PST by libbylu
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To: alicewonders

This is exactly what I was talking about in posts a few day ago - If you aren’t 100% in agreement then no need to apply. For example, I AM north of 90% conservative - I don’t agree with school vouchers at the cost of the school of your choice, thus I feel that I would NOT be welcomed. I am however, in favor of a voucher in the amount of property tax that you pay that goes to the school district in which you live - I pay 4500 in property taxes and about 3800 goes to the school district and I only feel that if I wanted a voucher that it should only be for 3800. Let the flaming begin.


17 posted on 11/14/2008 6:04:38 AM PST by Cyclone59
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
I’m all for being a “big tent” - on OUR terms. In other words, we hold to our principles, and the moderates come to US, not the other way around.
I tried to say pretty much the same thing here...

"...conservatism is inclusive, with a caveat. Conservatives want to associate with other conservatives no matter their race or ethnicity. The key there is conservatism. Without that base of shared beliefs and values what you get is a shifting foundation whereupon nothing can be built."

18 posted on 11/14/2008 6:05:05 AM PST by philman_36
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To: perfect_rovian_storm
...counting on them to hold up the tent will only result in the collapse of the entire structure.
In my world if you can't pull your own weight you hit the bricks! I haven't got time for lollygagging.
19 posted on 11/14/2008 6:08:11 AM PST by philman_36
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To: alicewonders
It is willful ignorance on their part.
Isn't it!
20 posted on 11/14/2008 6:09:21 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

Saw it, too, and could not believe my ears. After all that has been said about the Repub. melt-down WHYS, these guys still don’t get it, and go on national television to confirm it. ‘BETTER TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND APPEAR STUPID THAN OPEN IT AND REMOVE ALL DOUBT’. What will the new conservative party be called?


21 posted on 11/14/2008 6:10:48 AM PST by catchem (NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE STUPIDITY OF THE AMERICAN VOTER!)
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To: philman_36
I am a county GOP co-chair in Iowa. In the general election, we ran a candidate for County Recorder who lost the Dem primary. We gave her money and support and she won the election.

We never asked her opinion about a host of issues. We never imposed a litmus test on her ideology. She was willing, however, to be identified as a Republican.

Our county has been a red county in the past six election cycles. Are you suggesting that we are all RINOs because we were willing to include her in our party?

22 posted on 11/14/2008 6:17:55 AM PST by Don'tMessWithTexas
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To: catchem
What will the new conservative party be called?

I like "Conservative Party" myself.

23 posted on 11/14/2008 6:22:30 AM PST by alicewonders
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To: TN4Liberty
There is merit behind having a “big tent” as long as you don't have an infinitely large tent.
But that "infinitely large tent" is just what has been happening for the last 12+ years and we all see where that has gotten us. From the sounds of things some want to make the tent even bigger!
Just as Reagan felt that the Democratic party had left him many are starting to feel like the Republican party has left them.

...the “RINO” charge (nice pun)...
You caught me out!

I think the key is to have an approach that is consistent with conservative principles, then we can discuss it.
I did say..."Without that base of shared beliefs and values what you get is a shifting foundation whereupon nothing can be built."
I quite agree that there will be minor disagreements. The sacrifice of base, core principals is IMO what is being sacrificed. The little things won't matter a bit if those are gone.

It is political suicide to tell people they have to agree with me on everything before they can be part of my party.
It is also political suicide to tell people that their core principles will be upheld when the party never had the intention of doing so to begin with and only stated as much simply to get elected.

24 posted on 11/14/2008 6:26:05 AM PST by philman_36
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To: Don'tMessWithTexas
We never asked her opinion about a host of issues. We never imposed a litmus test on her ideology. She was willing, however, to be identified as a Republican.

This is a problem for me. I think this is how we got to the state we are in now. We need core principles that are identified and YES! - I think we need a litmus test! The Democrats won't let people speak at their conventions unless they support abortion - THEY have litmus tests!

Personally, I don't want to be a member of a club that lets any "Tom, Dick or Harry" in - you get a lot of riff-raff that way - and eventually, it turns into a club you don't want to be in anymore.

25 posted on 11/14/2008 6:26:08 AM PST by alicewonders
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To: WilliamReading
To be sure, he isn’t an extreme conservative...
I'm not looking for an extreme conservative. I'm looking for a principled conservative!
Christ doesn't strike me as one with his comments today.
26 posted on 11/14/2008 6:30:25 AM PST by philman_36
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To: catchem
What will the new conservative party be called?
The idea is to keep from having to create a new party.
Unfortunately, that prospect dims with each passing year.
27 posted on 11/14/2008 6:34:20 AM PST by philman_36
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To: alicewonders
If this is the way the party is going, they can count me out.

We just went there and it failed miserably, to the tune of loosing the Whitehouse and further slides in both houses of Congress. It's time for Crist and his ilk who think this way to walk the plank right across the aisle. They'd be much happier as DemocRats.....

28 posted on 11/14/2008 6:38:56 AM PST by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
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To: Don'tMessWithTexas
Our county has been a red county in the past six election cycles. Are you suggesting that we are all RINOs because we were willing to include her in our party?

I would question the Conservative smarts of the action. If your candidate is a liberal, then what ever her label her actions would not be conducive to promoting the Conservative agenda.

The Dems say whatever they think will win an election, and put up candidates that are not in line with what the party wants. They then shut them out of power and the decision making process. Do you really want your local politics run that way?

29 posted on 11/14/2008 6:43:33 AM PST by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: philman_36

Wasn’t it Perry?


30 posted on 11/14/2008 6:48:12 AM PST by GnuHere
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To: Don'tMessWithTexas
We never asked her opinion about a host of issues.
Perhaps you should have asked. Did you at least find out what here core principals were?
We never imposed a litmus test on her ideology.
What the hell, she's only County Recorder so she can't do too much damage, can she? (do you get where I'm headed?)

Are you suggesting that we are all RINOs because we were willing to include her in our party?
Perhaps your seeming indignation is answer enough.

31 posted on 11/14/2008 6:56:25 AM PST by philman_36
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To: Cyclone59
"For example, I AM north of 90% conservative - I don’t agree with school vouchers at the cost of the school of your choice, thus I feel that I would NOT be welcomed."

I'm not going to flame you, but I will say that you are taking this to the point of silly. You are FOR vouchers and we we can quibble about the extent. Don't look for small reasons to feel unwanted or unappreciated.

Reasonable people know that everyone in an organization as large as a national political party are not going to agree on everything 100% of the time. But there are conservative principles that should not be compromised. You might still be welcomed to stand under the tent, but when you want to begin sawing on the poles holding up the tent, you need to find shelter elsewhere.

32 posted on 11/14/2008 6:56:28 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of The Free Because of The Brave)
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To: philman_36

It was funny watching Rick Santorum last night on Fox News Channel complaining that the GOP wasn’t conservative enough anymore.

Why then did Rick Santorum lose the election?

GOP used to stand for Peace & Prosperity.


33 posted on 11/14/2008 6:58:30 AM PST by WilliamReading
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To: TN4Liberty

Great post...and about time!

We need to “reach across the aisle” WITH-IN our own party.
We have good conservatives that disagree on some topics and agree on otheres. The RINO lable is just silly.....we share some fundamental core beliefs (lower taxes/limited government/no abortion)...but smart people can have many opions on what needs to be done in schools/health care/immigration...and should be welcomed...not shunned.

To do otherwise makes us look radical/foolish/narrow...and who’d want to sign up for that? Our goal is bring MORE people around to our fundamental beliefs....not to exclude them from the discussions!

“My way or the highway”...will get you the “highway”.


34 posted on 11/14/2008 7:00:45 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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To: JustaDumbBlonde

You might still be welcomed to stand under the tent, but when you want to begin sawing on the poles holding up the tent, you need to find shelter elsewhere.

Great analogy, consider it stolen.


35 posted on 11/14/2008 7:03:39 AM PST by Cyclone59
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To: GnuHere
Wasn’t it Perry?
Why in the world are you asking me? I didn't know in the first place which is why I asked for help in reply #1..."Did anybody see or catch the name of the guy on before Christ?"
I'm looking for an answer to that question and can hardly answer yours, now can I?
Sorry to sound snippy, but c'mon, gnu guy! You've been around too long for that!
36 posted on 11/14/2008 7:05:12 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

“It is also political suicide to tell people that their core principles will be upheld when the party never had the intention of doing so to begin with and only stated as much simply to get elected.”

IMO...our “core’ principals are: no abortion/lowerspending and taxes/spoort the military/support capitalism.

MCain did and does all of the above and continues to be trashed by a number of freepers.

The problem appears to be that we can HAVE a canidate with the CORE we want...but if they dare to disagree on ANYTHING....we call them a RINO and kick them out.

Makes for a VERY small voting pool. Perhaps you guys SHOULD form your own party and see how it goes?


37 posted on 11/14/2008 7:06:53 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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To: WilliamReading
...Rick Santorum...complaining that the GOP wasn’t conservative enough anymore.
Why then did Rick Santorum lose the election?

I have no idea why Santorum lost the election.
Perhaps he wasn't offering enough "pie".
Perhaps voters voted a straight party ticket.
Perhaps he ran his campaign poorly.
As I'm not from PA so I didn't follow his campaign.
Do you have some opinions you would like to share as to why the loss happened?

Anyway, what does his losing the election have to do with the GOP not being conservative enough anymore? Are you implying that his loss refutes his comments?

38 posted on 11/14/2008 7:19:22 AM PST by philman_36
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To: Cyclone59

Go for it, with my appreciation.


39 posted on 11/14/2008 7:26:54 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of The Free Because of The Brave)
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To: HappyinAZ
...we share some fundamental core beliefs (lower taxes/limited government/no abortion)...
And some "Republicans" don't share some of the fundamental core beliefs of traditional conservatives. That's the problem!
Geez, just searching the keywords "pro abortion republicans 2008" gives 10,700,000 results.
40 posted on 11/14/2008 7:28:44 AM PST by philman_36
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To: HappyinAZ
IMO...our “core’ principals are: no abortion/lowerspending and taxes/spoort the military/support capitalism.
I'd go along with that (I'd add a couple of more things myself, like appointing constructionist judges, for instance) but I refuse to make spoort of our military.
And as my previous reply to you shows there are plenty of Republicans who are pro-abortion.

MCain did and does all of the above
OH PLEASE! I'll give credit where credit is due, but the man was on par with ObamaRama on spending and taxes! (how was he going to get the new things he wanted without raising taxes?)

Perhaps you guys SHOULD form your own party and see how it goes?
Perhaps you should get some more coffee as you've still got some sleep in your eyes.

41 posted on 11/14/2008 7:39:53 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

I think no abortion is in our Republican platform.....so I’m not sure how we get somone in the party that is pro-abortion.....beats me!


42 posted on 11/14/2008 7:40:06 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ
I think no abortion is in our Republican platform.....so I’m not sure how we get somone in the party that is pro-abortion.....beats me!

Well it doesn't beat me. Seek the answers!
For you...

43 posted on 11/14/2008 7:50:44 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

well...you’re enthusiastic...not very logical...and don’t have a game plan...but enthusiastic.

Like I said: McCain is strong on 90% of our issues...and you treat him like cow dung. How can you have a national “party” that win elections with THAT kind of reasoning.

Seems to me...you only have a little “club”...not a national party that should/must include more thatn 1/2 of the voteres.

You can’t exclude EVERYONE that disagrees with you on ANY issue and win the election. Just saying...you need to reason...not rant.


44 posted on 11/14/2008 7:57:34 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ
I think no abortion is in our Republican platform.....
2008 Republican Platform...Maintaining The Sanctity and Dignity of Human Life
Faithful to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence, we assert the inherent dignity and sanctity of all human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution, and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children.

No, "no abortion" isn't in the Republican Platform, but they do "assert", give "support" and "endorse" legislation to help those unborn children along.
Think "weasel words".

45 posted on 11/14/2008 8:00:54 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

gee...I perfer to see it as 1/2 full...I’m pleased and proud to be in a Party that even THINKS about the sanctity of unborn life.


46 posted on 11/14/2008 8:05:27 AM PST by HappyinAZ
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To: philman_36

Anyway, what does his losing the election have to do with the GOP not being conservative enough anymore? Are you implying that his loss refutes his comments?

Most definitely. But Santorum is too dumb to see the irony in his statements.

My guess is that Santorum lost his re-election because he was very much a cheerleader for George Bush. And Bush was completely incompetent in terms of delivering on Peace and Prosperity.


47 posted on 11/14/2008 8:10:03 AM PST by WilliamReading
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To: HappyinAZ
McCain is strong on 90% of our issues...and you treat him like cow dung.
I point out something that he's weak as hell on, where he should be strong, and I'm treating him like cow dung? PLEASE!
Limited government is one of the biggest things conservatives have been griping about for years. Lest you forget he voted FOR the bailout plan and if that isn't expansion of government then I don't know what is.

Seems to me...you only have a little “club”...not a national party that should/must include more thatn 1/2 of the voteres.
A juvenile penis joke? And I'm supposed to take you seriously?

Just saying...you need to reason...not rant.
You need to get a clue.

48 posted on 11/14/2008 8:19:03 AM PST by philman_36
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To: HappyinAZ
I’m pleased and proud to be in a Party that even THINKS about the sanctity of unborn life.
Oh, don't be fooled. The Democratic Party thinks about the sanctity of unborn life too so you've got an invalid comparison.
However, Democrats THINK that the sanctity of unborn life, much like a certain form of abortion, SUCKS.
49 posted on 11/14/2008 8:32:27 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

I’m a big tent republican.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1821435/posts?page=6245#6245

Here’s an analogy to work with. Take a small box and fill it with some rocks. Then add some rice, filling it to the top. Now take all the same stuff, but in a different order. Put in the rice first, then add the rocks. What you’ll find is that if you put in the big stuff first, the small stuff will fit around it. But if you put in the small stuff first, the big stuff won’t have room. The republican tent is the box. The Big issues are the socon issues, to be put in first. The little issues are things that can be accommodated around the bigger stuff. A candidate who tries to focus on the smaller issues first and leave out the bigger issues has no way of getting all of us into the tent. He splits the party. The candidate who gets the big stuff right and as much of the little stuff that will fit, he can fit more into the tent. We’re often amazed at how much rice can keep fitting in. Rudy Giuliani flunks some of the big issues, and on some of the little issues it looks to me like anyone else’s rice would do just as well. All that remains for us to agree on is which are the bedrock principles and which are not. Why would there be so much invective aimed at rudy from the right? Because there are some bedrock principles that he is leaving out. Bad move. I see rudybot postings all the time saying that they would vote for Hunter, and I see socon postings that say they would not vote for rudy. That’s a BIG indicator of a few bedrock principles that are being left outside the tent in order to let in some rice.


50 posted on 11/14/2008 8:45:27 AM PST by Kevmo (Palin/Hunter 2012)
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