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LEO DONOFRIO COMMENTS ON JUDAH BENJAMIN ARTICLE CONCERNING NATURAL BORN CITIZEN AND THE COMMON LAW
Leo Donofrio ^ | 12/1/08 | Leo Donofrio

Posted on 12/02/2008 10:05:36 AM PST by MHGinTN

On November 28, 2008, Judah Benjamin published an article at the Texas Darlin blog which discussed my case and the natural born citizen issue. While I enjoyed reading this article, and I agree with the conclusion - that Obama is not eligible - I disagree with the basis upon which that conclusion was made.

(snip)...

There are two mistakes in his article which need to be addressed.

FIRST MISTAKE: Failure to state cited law was repealed.

Judah mentions the 1790 naturalization act as follows:

(snip) ...

SECOND MISTAKE: Failure to properly analyze common law.

Congress having repealed the”natural born provision” leads to the core problem in Mr. Benjamin’s analysis. Naturalization only concerns people who were, “at birth” not US citizens.

(snip)...

And it’s very important, especially in light of Justice Scalia’s very recent comments to the Federalist Society of November 22, 2008 wherein he said that the common law is dead and does not control in the USA:

“The common law is gone. The federal courts never applied the common law and even in the state courts it’s codified now.”

(snip)...

CONCLUSION

All in all, Mr. Benjamin has made a valiant attempt to provide a clear analysis of the natural born citizen topic. Please do not assume I am bashing him. I respect his passion and research, but it’s not entirely accurate. And considering what Scalia just said to the Federalist Society about the common law being gone (only three days after my case was scheduled for conference), it’s important to keep things in their proper historical perspective.

Leo C. Donofrio

(Excerpt) Read more at naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; certifigate; commonlaw; constitutionallaw; obama; obamatransitionfile; obamatruthfile
This is an important article. I have been forced to post it in ‘blogging’ since it is sourced at Wordpress. Please go to the linked site and read it all. Also, Scalia's linked presentation before the Federalist Society (comments to the Federalist Society of November 22, 2008) is telling, since it was made soon after Leo's case got recognition before the SCOTUS for conference, at least.
1 posted on 12/02/2008 10:05:37 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN

Interesting stuff.

We have never, ever had a President with such an internationally divided loyalty. Yet, most Americans think he’s just some black kid that overcame a broken home.


2 posted on 12/02/2008 10:21:26 AM PST by stevestras
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To: Jim Robinson; LucyT; autumnraine; The Sons of Liberty; Shady Ray; editor-surveyor; TexasRepublic; ..
PING))))))
3 posted on 12/02/2008 10:23:19 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: vrwc1; goodnesswins; Red Boots; Free America52; cripplecreek; WVNan; savedbygrace; Eye of Unk; ...

ping-a-ling-a-ling


4 posted on 12/02/2008 10:30:03 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: jcsjcm

ping


5 posted on 12/02/2008 10:31:12 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN; Calpernia; Fred Nerks; null and void; pissant; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; Polarik; ...

Thanks, MHGinTN.

Ping.


6 posted on 12/02/2008 10:33:25 AM PST by LucyT
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To: OL Hickory

Ping!


7 posted on 12/02/2008 10:33:34 AM PST by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.)
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To: mplsconservative; cpforlife.org; greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana; Elsie; SkyPilot; Godzilla; ...
PING))))))
8 posted on 12/02/2008 10:34:59 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thanks for the ping! :)


9 posted on 12/02/2008 10:36:40 AM PST by mplsconservative
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To: stevestras

“Yet, most Americans think he’s just some black kid that overcame a broken home.”

Reminds me:

“I was born a poor black child. I remember the days, sittin’ on the porch with my family, ... .” Steve Martin, THE JERK


10 posted on 12/02/2008 10:40:41 AM PST by hoe_cake (" 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." Ronald Reagan)
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To: Jersey Republican Biker Chick

Lordy mercy, you’re everywhere! :`)


11 posted on 12/02/2008 10:41:13 AM PST by hoe_cake (" 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." Ronald Reagan)
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To: MHGinTN

Leo is a good guy. He, Cort and others are really sticking their necks out to protect the Constitution. We should all call “conservative” radio talks show hosts and ask them why they are not talking about these cases.


12 posted on 12/02/2008 10:47:49 AM PST by Frantzie
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To: Frantzie
well, there are callers calling in--I have and was told by the screener that the topic is still off limits. But until the issue gets legs at the SCOTUS (which it has since Leo's case has been scheduled for full conference) the conservative radio show hosts are scared to death to talk about it and be branded the way we Freepers are being smeared at our own site!

One may be sure of one thing: this issue was not laid to rest prior to the election else the SCOTUS would not be conferencing Leo's pleading! The Obamatronic astroturfing goonsquad has been awakened and are all over the place semaring anyone questioning their fraudulent affirmative action candidate.

13 posted on 12/02/2008 10:51:53 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Bless you for having the guts too call in. “Off limits” - BS. I guess we already lost our First Amendment right.

The Left could say anything and everything about Bush - Chimpy Hitler and other childish nonsense without any concern yet those morons screamed “police state.”


14 posted on 12/02/2008 10:54:37 AM PST by Frantzie
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To: Frantzie
We should all call “conservative” radio talks show hosts and ask them why they are not talking about these cases.

Naive!

They know that as soon as they start promoting the facts RE: Obama's noncitizenship, they are off the air. Even the great Rush would not survive for ten minutes if he broke the silence.

15 posted on 12/02/2008 10:55:33 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Obama - not just an empty suit - - A Suit Bomb invading the White House)
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To: All
The Scalia Federalist presentation is found HERE.
16 posted on 12/02/2008 10:56:16 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Frantzie
Talk radio is still classed as ‘entertainment’. Sadly, the once vital fourth estate has transmogrified itself into the fifth column enemy of We The People, since the ‘press’ has so completely genuflected themselves before the societal engineering democrats.
17 posted on 12/02/2008 10:58:25 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

bump


18 posted on 12/02/2008 11:04:34 AM PST by Velveeta
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To: All
Here is the actual video link.
19 posted on 12/02/2008 11:05:16 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: LucyT

Many thanks, LucyT

Ping


20 posted on 12/02/2008 11:05:30 AM PST by Iowan
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To: Clioman

ping


21 posted on 12/02/2008 11:09:09 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: stevestras
...most Americans think he’s just some black kid that overcame a broken home.

I think they think much less than that.

Video of Obama voters answering rudimentary questions regarding this country...

MM (in TX)

22 posted on 12/02/2008 11:29:48 AM PST by MississippiMan
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To: editor-surveyor
They know that as soon as they start promoting the facts RE: Obama's noncitizenship, they are off the air. Even the great Rush would not survive for ten minutes if he broke the silence.

They wouldn't be off the air, certainly not Rush. They're afraid of being branded as conspiracy kooks. After all, right here on FR there are posters in every thread denigrating those who are following and supporting these efforts to protect the constitutional rule of law.

I think way too many conservative media personalities still crave deep in their souls to be accepted as "mainstream," as "legitimate" members of Big Media. That's way sad, but I believe it to be true. We see the same phenomenon decade after decade with conservative politicians who go on these shows and act like they're big buddies with their liberal hosts who are at that moment plunging the knife in the backs of their smiling conservative guests.

Conservative players never ever seem to figure out the most obvious truth that being nice to liberals only makes it easier for the liberals to screw them over. Instead, Republican politicians serve themselves up on a platter to their liberal enemies time and time and time and time again, being Mr. Cordial with a goofy grin while the spit and flame are being prepared just off camera.

Similarly, conservative media players continue to crave the acceptance of their "peers" in the MSM. Think about how many times even Rush has appeared on various and sundry MSM shows, only to be marginalized, yet he keeps going back. Think back to how he palled up with Russert, claiming that Russert was "different," something akin to a real journalist. Russert was a liberal shill like the rest. As great as Rush is, and despite all the wonderful things he has done for conservatism, I think he still yearns for a kind of "success" that is never gonna come.

This is why none of the major players will mention this. They will once the story finally gains critical mass and becomes unavoidable, but not before.

MM (in TX)

23 posted on 12/02/2008 11:51:21 AM PST by MississippiMan
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To: MHGinTN

COnsidering 0bama’s assistance including monetary to Raila Odinga, while 0 was in the Senate, is certainly evidence of divided loyalty.


24 posted on 12/02/2008 11:58:39 AM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: MHGinTN

Ping to use in letters to Senators.


25 posted on 12/02/2008 12:10:00 PM PST by HighlyOpinionated ([http://www.americanphonic.com -- mp3] [http://www.foundingfathers/info//federalistpapers/])
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To: BP2

ping ... you’ll enjoy the Scalia talk before the Federalist Society on the 20th.


26 posted on 12/02/2008 12:47:13 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Regarding conservative media silence:

I believe staying off the topic, and utterly silent, until the EC votes on 15 Dec. is simply the smart strategy:

1. The blowback of a pre-EC disqualification would be uncertain, e.g. Electors re-directing their votes for Hillary or Biden (with unclear legality vs. DQ of the Electors themselves)

2. The MSM remains fixed into silence: no way to start the spin machine if the topic is not raised the first place (the counter-articles may already written and ready to be published when this finally breaks out into the open, as it surely will).

3. SCOTUS has no traction at the federal level until the Governors certify the EC results. The State-level appeals only play into the pre-EC DQ problem.

4. The real show will be the joint session of Congress on 6 Jan. and whether Cheney will open the EC letters or leave them sealed and cross the street for a SCOTUS ruling: he only needs two objections, one House and one Senate member.

5. The Constitution has a clear path for handling a DQ between 15 Dec. and 20 Jan., the process is much less clear if the DQ occurs before 15 Dec. (e.g. a stay on the entire election, imagine the damage to all parties, the stock market and the country).

Summary: My own belief is the smart money, including conservative media, are waiting for 15 Dec. to pass before starting a full court press. I also believe that SCOTUS will find the means to make the DNC be the primary actor, for instance by forcing a reasonable disclosure after 15 Dec. (not before the EC) but before 20 Jan., essentially making Pelosi, Reid and the DNC the fall guys in the media. The MSM will have a hard time over the holidays with any spin control leading up to the 6 Jan. vote for President-Elect. Checkmate.


27 posted on 12/02/2008 1:02:41 PM PST by MkB
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To: MkB

Very interesting analysis. I would applaud the reality of it except I am very worried that we do not have a Senator and House Rep with the testosterone to actually object to this little Marxist squirrel knowing the mayhem his thuggery will spew upon the property of the nation if the affirmative action empty suit is disqualified. Republicans have not demonstrated courage for quite some time now.


28 posted on 12/02/2008 1:19:39 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MkB

I think you have a good summary of what may happen, though what if it appears that the public gets a lot more news about the BC ahead of the MSM trying to suppress it?
I have a feeling that there is about to be a Wag the Dog scenario because the left does not want any more news of court proceedings getting into play.


29 posted on 12/02/2008 1:30:24 PM PST by Eye of Unk (Aleutica, the new name of Free Alaska)
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To: MkB
ANY of the MSM coverage is focusing on the birth certificate, NOT noticing the dual citizenship issue.

Almost as if "fixed," not seeing what the REAL danger to their power is...


30 posted on 12/02/2008 1:32:02 PM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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To: MHGinTN

Thanks very much for the ping.

Thanks especially for posting Scalia’s presentation...

Full conference for this case is scheduled for the 5th of December by Clarence Thomas, right?

I’m very interested in this....please keep me on your ping list.

Appreciate the info.


31 posted on 12/02/2008 2:06:29 PM PST by milford421 (U.N. OUT OF U.S.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thanks for the ping. Interesting article.Looks like things are moving right along with the case too!


32 posted on 12/02/2008 2:10:26 PM PST by penelopesire ("The only CHANGE you will get with the Democrats is the CHANGE left in your pocket")
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To: BP2

Good point on coverage of non-BC issues. The end-run is for a group of citizens to file a case directly with SCOTUS, who has original juristiction on cases between State(s) and Citizens of other States.

Outline of a possible case, filed with SCOTUS against three States (single action):

1. State of Hawaii (Defendent): Governor and SOS to certify “Natural-Born” status based on direct access to records sealed under state law due to adoption (and not available to any other States or Citizens).

2. State of Illinois (Defendent): Governor and SOS to certify legal identity and confirm citizenship, based on law practice conducted in the State after a return from foreign residence/citizenship and change-of-name at adoption.

3. State of New York (Defendent): Governor and SOS to certify that attendance at NY educational institutions were not conducted on a foreign-student basis.

Item 1 has the punch. Items 2 and 3 are weak but would serve to raise the issue up. The case would give SCOTUS the traction needed to force a simple, reasonable order for a disclosure of information in the time period before the joint session of Congress meets in Jan. Frankly, just the act of accepting the case would force the information out for damage control by the DNC: SCOTUS would not likley, in the end, have to take any action if there is any truth in the allegations and quite a few folks want to avoid personal legal difficulties (!).

Just a what-if scenario.


33 posted on 12/02/2008 2:26:02 PM PST by MkB
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To: little jeremiah

COnsidering 0bama’s assistance including monetary to Raila Odinga, while 0 was in the Senate, is certainly evidence of divided loyalty.
________________

Considering Obama’s ‘assistance’ to the murderous, Islam-backed Odinga, he is an accessory to mass murder/


34 posted on 12/02/2008 3:39:54 PM PST by patriot08
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To: arrogantsob

You might want to read the article and watch Justice Scalia’s presentation.


35 posted on 12/02/2008 5:05:12 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: eyedigress; meandog; unspun; OL Hickory; Congressman Billybob; CaribouCrossing; Jeff Head; ...

kerping ... the Scalia link is worth the time, too.


36 posted on 12/02/2008 9:55:45 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

“Natural law is gone”? I would expect that from some Harvard Law professor, but I’m sorry to hear if from Justice Scalia.

Yes, the activist justices have been busy driving out natural law ever since the time of Oliver Wendell Holmes. But it would be disastrous if a people living under a Constitution based on “Nature and Nature’s God” just gave this founding principle up and consented to the resulting damage to our freedoms.


37 posted on 12/03/2008 9:19:35 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

I believe the point Justice Scalia was making which culminated in that phrasing was that Natursal Law is gone because it has been codified into state and federal law thus it need not be tasked to stand and deliver as a stand alone ‘institution’.


38 posted on 12/03/2008 10:07:04 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thank you so much for the ping, MHGinTN. I just finished reading it and must say I am extremely impressed with Leo Donofrio’s knowledge of the law and our Constitution.

The comments by Donofrio regarding Benjamin’s article need to be read by everyone who cares about this issue. It’s important, it’s fascinating, and very educational.


39 posted on 12/03/2008 10:41:57 AM PST by CaribouCrossing
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To: MkB

It is unclear to me that an election won by fraud produces a result which is subject to the 12th or the 20th.


40 posted on 12/03/2008 12:05:53 PM PST by bvw
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To: MHGinTN

You don’t know if there is a transcript of the presentation anywhere....My dial up doesn’t allow for audio/video presentations.


41 posted on 12/03/2008 4:59:06 PM PST by hoosiermama (Berg is a liberal democrat. Keyes is a conservative. Obama is bringing us together already!)
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To: stevestras

We have never, ever had a President with such an internationally divided loyalty.
***It turns out, maybe we have.

Maybe Obama will be the Second Foreign-Born President in History
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2142451/posts


42 posted on 12/03/2008 5:01:08 PM PST by Kevmo (Palin/Hunter 2012)
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To: Kevmo
And from Leo's letter to ABC issued today:

The main argument of my law suit alleges that since Obama was a British citizen - at birth - a fact he admits is true, then he cannot be a “natural born citizen”. The word “born” has meaning. It deals with the status of a presidential candidate “at birth”. Obama had dual nationality at birth. The status of the candidate at the time of the election is not as relevant to the provisions of the Constitution as is his status “at birth.” If one is not “born” a natural born citizen, he can never be a natural born citizen.

43 posted on 12/04/2008 10:25:28 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: hoosiermama

So far, the transcript is not available. Sorry


44 posted on 12/04/2008 10:27:58 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
I think that all of Leo Donofrio (real name, lawyer and professional poker player), Judah Benjamin (alias, a historian), and Antonin Scalia (real name, judge) are having a wonderful discussion about the common law.

I am impressed also that they share some strong connections to New Jersey (although I am guessing about Benjamin, I suspect he is a New Jerseyan).

I had some comments earlier today on another thread about the common law, there is quite a long discussion to be had. And it hasn't even breached the surface until folks start bringing up such arcane subjects as horn book law, "officer of the court", and the role of juries of citizens in establishing Liberty within the court system (a role that has been almost negated by the greedy process of law).

Here are my comments:

Stare Decisis is death to any system of Law that uses it alone for process. Stare Decisis is a mortal disease the Society that has a system of Law that relies mostly on it.

Mathematicians, physicists and engineers would understand this naturally, as do thesaurus writers. In mathematics, consider the repeated addition of small solid angles. (See for example http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/336k/lectures/node12.html) Such additions do not commute. That is, the sum of a series of small rotations in space does not place a object in the same place as the pure mathematical sum of those angles. The place that is arrived a series of small rotations arrives at could be opposite and far from the place desired.

It is also why by repeatedly using a thesaurus to replace a word or phrase with another one can end up with a meaning exactly the opposite of what was intended.

So it is that a series of legal decisions each branched from the other can end up at a ruling that is totally perverted from all the original intent of a law. A ruling with no semblance of moral sanity. And by all the twists and turns of stare decisis that end up at that distant result the ruling is made inscrutable to any who would consider it.

Such arcane perversity in the twisted web of stare decisis comes to prevent the participation of the public in the process of law, It marginalizes the public's great common sense and comes to create a class of legal nobility, of experts in navigating the arcane, inscrutable, perverting twists of case law. And in reaction to those inscrutable twists, legislators and regulators come to produce mirroring equally inscrutable bodies of legislation and regulation.

The inscrutability of such rulings, of such arcane case law, of large volumes of arcane legislation and regulation comes to cut off the wisdom shared between generations, and the perversity comes to mock the law and the process of law, and thus to destroy the society.

In a healthy society, one that conveys wisdom gained from one generation to another with respect and reverence, it is the process of Law which is a great Educator. The nature and wherewithal of rulings is easily knowable to the public, and great judges, great arguers before the court can be understood and appreciated, not for their personality, but rather for the intellectual and moral insights that they would provide to all.

Law, our modern process of Law in the US of 2008 no longer is a Great Educator, a fountain of wisdom and morals. It is instead become a horrible perverter, a fearsome beast which swallows the good and spits out the rotten. It is inscrutable, but those aligned to that now corrupting process become wealthy! They become celebrated and become stars and talking heads, famous.

Infamous. Blood profits milked from a perversion of the once noble and beautiful breasts of Lady Justice.

* * *

Yet, ideally The Common Law that is that Lady. The legal process is her cloak, that gives her both modesty and gravity. The Officers of the Court are those who dress her and support her.

Common Law and Original Intent: Every ruling in a healthy vibrant system of Law where the educated and moral participate as judges, advocates, juries and witnesses is informed with common law of the original intent.

In a Common Law system while rulings consider similar prior rulings, and even more weigh a series of prior similar rulings, most rulings will also of themselves and obvious to all stand in accord with the common sense, morality and ethics of that original intent.

By such rule are people happy and productive, and generations regard the wisdom of prior generations respectfully.


45 posted on 12/04/2008 11:03:34 AM PST by bvw
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To: bvw

Beautifully written! Thank you for sharing your words and thoughts. I too ponder the Lady, Liberty. She is not aging well under constant assault from her cloying courtesans.


46 posted on 12/04/2008 11:43:49 AM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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