So you bought a new rifle, now what are you going to do?

Sleepless in Midland ^ | January 24, 2009

[Vendome]

75 feet? does your range double as a bowling alley, LOL Really LOL

[bolobaby]

Indoor rifle range. Pretty standard, I think, for that.

[Buffalo Head]

"....if you find their resonance."

That outlandish "theory" has about the same validity as man-made global warming and other religions based upon junk science. It is a shame that otherwise reasonable people accept such nonsense.

[Do the math]

You do not need to be able to hit a target at 500 yards, but you better be able to hit the targets that are closer to you. When the zero’s defense force comes for you, they will be a lot closer to you than 500 yards.

I practice hitting targets at 5, 20, 50, 100, and 1000 yards.

Also, with my AR I am very accurate to only about 400 yards, because of my eyesight (I do not have a scope on my AR), which is not a good as it was when I qualified as an expert. But with my cheap Mossberg 100 ATR and cheap Simmons scope, I can nail them at 500 yards. However, I do not consider the bolt action 100 ATR to be an effective weapon of defense.

When the SHTF, most of the fighting will be real close and personal. I will use my Remington 870 12 gauge,and my SA XD 45 ACP to protect my family. If the fighting gets to the streets, then I will use my AR.

Train your sons and daughters, take your friends to the range and teach them too. We will need everybody we can get to stop the libs from enslaving us.

[Revolting cat!]

Why, you’re gonna shoot your eye out now!

[Vendome]

Just teasing, I pretty much guessed that.

[yarddog]

1976 must have been a good year to buy Argentine Mausers as it was just about that time I bought mine. Walter Craig in Selma got in a bunch of brand new unissued ones with the original test targets included.

It was the most beautifully made rifle I have ever owned and that includes a lot of commercial ones. I still remember Herr Ritzmann had shot a two inch group at 200 meters and signed the target. The group was about an inch high. He did that with open sights.

Deutsch Waffen Und Munitionsfabrik must have lavished care on their manufacture. I read an article not too long ago which said if the rifles were made today to the same standards of fit and finish, the price would be around $2000 each.

[Vendome]

Took offense/defense shooting in college and those ranges are correct. We did 5, 10, 25, 40, 100 and 300. Only did 1000 for showing off and demonstrating a slow pull.

When SHTF most problems will be less than 50 yrds with a possibility for longer ranging. You must absolutely be proficient at the distances under 100 and have the tools for that.

I am comfortable with bolt action if needed but prefer a semi .308 or greater with a muzzle break to reduce lift and assist with getting back on target.

Comfortable with revolvers with speed loaders for 25 and under. I just like the reliability and I breathe and Aim. I don't send a lot of rounds out as I am focused on going through the target. Always shoot at the chest and continue until they stop. A good semi like a Kimber will provide excellent tool here.

All around for 50 and under with very little practice is the 12 gauge with double 00 buck. Make sure the barrel is 18.5 inches, to stay legal and provide accuracy. Couple of hints, 00 provides at least 8 pellets in one shot. Prefer 2 3/4 most economical and the least kick of the other sizes. Will accomplish the same task. For crowd control you can shoot the concrete at 15 degrees and take them out the legs or shoot the closest one by focusing on the front bead, in the chest. don't worry about the back sight if you are inexperienced and haven't taken the time to learn to shoot properly. With 8 shot coming out at 15yrds you will hit the target and anyone to the left or right.

[CurlyDave]

All throughout American history, the rifleman has been defined as a marksman capable of hitting a man-sized target from 500 yards away — no ifs, ands or buts about it.

I call BS. I would like to see you try to hit a man-sized target at 500 yards with any of the revolutionary war era replica guns. I bet it would take at least all day to get even one hit with a black powder flintlock.

I shoot a .50 cal percussion cap replica and even with double set triggers, 200 yards is really getting out there. Trajectory is like a rainbow and you need to know the range very, very well to get a hit. They didn't have laser rangefinders back then.

I have cut playing cards on edge at 25 yards and can routinely split a ball in two on an axe blade at that range, but 500 yards is just plain out of reach with black powder.

[STD]

Hi Redcloak,

Please don't be fooled into thinking that our best legitimate advocate is the NRA. It's real important that you know that the NRA spouts out drivel like; "we are here to protect the rights of hunters and sportsmen across the USA" Excuse me Mr. NRA, we don't think that the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with hunting.

I'm certain that the Minutemen of 1776, who were the first to fight with the British. They all knew why they must stop the enemy troops from taking away the weapons and gunpowder stored up the road in Lexington and Concord. The Minutemen knew why they needed to have their own weapons, ammunition and courage ready at a moments notice to protect our sacred rights.

Today, we should all be ready to fight any government; foreign or domestic which,is desperate enough to disarm its citizens.

Only the Gun Owner's of America (GOA) understands why each one of us must own a final guarantee. Each and every citizen must become aware that we enjoy the 2nd Amendment protections only as long as every man is ready to protect it.

[Mariner]

Silly boy, it's a proven concept and application.

Most sniper rifles overcome it with 1 inch dia barrels...but in lightweight barrels is a KNOWN and MEASURED phenom.

You only display abject ignorance by suggesting otherwise.

A lightweight barrel will vibrate...and will vibrate at different frequencies depending upon bullet weight.

The key to accuracy in a lightweight barrel is to find which bullet weight for the chosen caliber, will exit the barrel at the apex of the vibration's cycle.

That's why they free-float lightweight barrels and that's why the Browning A-Bolt with BOSS is the most accurate lightweight rifle in the world.

[eyedigress]

If anyone is having trouble finding ammo I may have found a place well stocked. especially .223

[bobby.223]

best post of the month, you are dead on. last I heard the nra still had grover norquist on their board of directors. he is also a heavy hitter for that main muslim terrorist front group, C.A.I.R. I do not understand the nra on this one at all. GOA is the best as far as I am concerned.

[Lancey Howard]

I do not understand the nra on this one at all. GOA is the best as far as I am concerned.

Don't forget about these folks:

JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP

[Redcloak]

Have you ever heard a gun-grabbing politician express any fear whatsoever of the GOA? Have you ever heard one so much as mention the GOA?

I didn’t think so.

It’s the NRA and only the NRA that they fear and respond to.

[mojitojoe]

Practice is always good.... and withe the prices of ammo right now, expensive as well. If you need a self defense rifle or sg, I don't think you can beat the Saiga 12 gauge. 10 rounds or more in a shotgun is a powerful weapon. Just point in the general direction and you're gonna hit whatever the target is. You can pick them up for around 500. or less new. Of course if you send it to Tromix or do a rebuild to make it like an AR then you get up there over a grand in no time.
AR’s are more fun to shoot but it would take a lot more ammo to hit a moving target than a sg would. Ammo is in in insanely short supply. I had trouble even finding .38 special and .380, usually there is tons of that. .225/5.56 is really scarce too. Not helping matters is that some people are buying sh*t loads of it every time someone gets it in, then they sell if for double the price on the gunbroker online auction site.

[Shooter 2.5]

The NRA fights for the Second Amendment better than any other gun group bar none. The Second Amendment Foundation has teamed with the NRA on occasion on matters like the Katrina Victims.

The GOA has never done a single thing in their entire existance on their own. Nothing. I waited for them to join the NRA and SAF to help the Katrina Victims and the goa did nothing.

I waited for them to do something for the lawsuits against Morton Grove, Evanston, Willmette and Chicago. The goa did nothing.

The goa did nothing to protect the Manufacturers.
The goa did nothing for Concealed Carry.
The goa does nothing for gunrange protection.

The goa was kicked out of the proceedings during the Michigan CCW bill.

The goa has done nothing of record by themselves to promote the Second Amendment. They are nothing more than a tshirt company with a snappy useless motto.

The antigunners and the media doesn’t even know the goa exists.

[Shooter 2.5]

Only if you want to order a tshirt othewise they are useless.

You’re like those obama supporters that listen to idle words instead of checking a voting record. The goa has never done a single thing on their own.

[Shooter 2.5]

JPFO is not a lobbying group.

[ExSoldier]

Each and EVERY one of us should be able to hit a water mellon at 500yds, every time.

Are you kidding? To quote my favorite comedian, Jeff Foxworthy and our shared love of redneck terms: "500 yards? Well, I usetacould see that far and if you gave me a real good scope, I mightcould again!"

You're not discussing a 5.56mm round there. The max effective range on that is 460 meters, just about 500 yards and it's running out of steam and losing altitude pretty quick there. Besides, can you hit a watermelon at 500 yards, using iron sights, sitting on the grass? If you can, I'd pay money (about $1) to see that!

When I was a 1LT on active duty I was XO of the Division Pistol team. As such I got to hang around the division MTU (Marksmanship Training Unit) and speak to them quite a bit. Yes, resonance affects accuracy at those ranges and mostly beyond. But the only folks who really have to worry about that are the highly trained and specialized snipers in the military. Those reside at the division level and are doled out to units on a temporary basis based on mission requirements. At least that was the case during my service time (Cold War).

But there is more to being a sniper than long range accuracy. It's called fieldcraft It's covered very extensively on that Military Channel show about sniper school, which I'll bet is available for purchase. What you're discussing isn't the job of a sniper it's the pursuit of a hobby called "Bench Rest Shooting."

Of far more importance to accuracy at realistic defense ranges is the phenomenon called HOT/COLD barrel accuracy. At ranges far closer than your magic 500 yards, that is going to have a damping effect on accuracy. At least that is what the SEAL sniper who helped me accessorize and customize my Springfield Armory M1A .308 rifle told me during his training of me. By that time, I was still no novice and was already a senior NRA certified Instructor myself, but I long ago learned you never stop being a student if you truly wish to advance your own skills. HOT/COLD barrel issue will affect your point of impact at realistic rifle (using iron sights or non magnifying "dot sights") combat ranges of 100-250 meters. THAT's a realistic requirement for engagement using iron sights. But 500 yards?

Gimme a break.