Posted on 03/11/2009 11:00:23 PM PDT by This Just In
This story begins with a plan. Like my brother-in-lay, my plan was simple. Go out and bag a new camcorder in my front yard. Well, except my front yard is actually my computer monitor when hunting for electronics.
So, I start shopping around. Should take me just a few minutes because I'm not looking for a 7 point buck (or 500 bucks!). Just a simple camcorder, right. WRONG!
I've recently discovered that coffee isn't the only thing out there that requires a tutorial on whether you'd prefer a latte', mocha, mocha latte', mocha java, Chai, Espresso, Cappuccino, or Barrista (What's with the Barrista anyway?).
When choosing a camcorder, I must now decide whether I'd like a Mini-DVD, MiniDV, Flash Drive, Hard Drive, HD.... The list seems endless.
Now, I could spend countless hours in my "front yard" weighing the pro's/con's of each type of camcorder, choosing a model, then reading reviews for days on end before making a final decision...
Or, I could seek the expert advice of Techies. So, for any hobbyists (not to be confused with lobbyists), novices, professionals in FReeperland, I kindly request your assistance. Please, give it to me with both barrels.
Okay, if you insist. I have absolutely no desire to know what a "brother-in-lay" is.
Neither do I, and I wrote the bloody post.
I must learn never to sip while reading posts from FR.
The CORRECT spelling should read, “brother-in-law” That’s LAW with a “W”.
Ha! We’ve all done that a time or three!
Carry on!
After hitting the ‘post’, I realize that this detail should have been included:
We are looking for a camcorder in order to create homegrown films. Low budget, homegrown films, that is. Nothing fancy. Just trying to introduce the family to another creative project to develop.
We are unable to afford anything over $250.00. I have been looking at refurbished camcorders as well as new at DellOutlit, eBay, Newegg, TechForLess, TigerDirect, RefurDepot, CNET, etc. (I discovered many of these sites through FReepers).
I prefer the flash-card approach myself since it will be easiest to transfer footage from the camera to the computer with. That said, I haven’t researched this area at all and have no idea what you can get for $250 these days.
MM
I’m partial to Canon myself. Their 2009 lineup will be available to purchase next month. I’m selling my Canon SD DV Tape Camcorder and going for a Canon VIXIA HF20 HD.
I might wait a bit to see what the actual street prices comes down to. 900 smackers is a bit rich for my blood though I do fancy myself an amateur auteur.
I’ve been reading about the new line.
Why did you chose a DV tape camcorder? Is there an advantage, besides price, compared to a flash card? Can you plug the cam directly to your PC and download film? Is this feature standard on all models?
Why would you prefer the flash memory over the HD MiniDV? I am assuming ease of use/download(?)
Meant to say upload rather than download.
Personally, flash memory has two advantages.
1. Hard drives are fragile. Flash cards can be run through the washing machine.
2. You can always buy more flash memory. If you have a 30 gig drive in your camcorder, that is the max space you will ever have.
I got a JVC Everio 30 GB HD last year on sale for $199. Been working fine. Lets you record in widescreen format. Low light conditions aren’t the greatest, have to make sure enough lighting in the room. Most low-end ameras will be likre that. Plus when you buy a cam, they only supply the low capacity battery. Usually only lasts about an hour. Better to pick up the higher capacity. Only cost me an additional $40.
In terms of record time, 30 gig will give me?
Yes, we don’t have the luxury of spending a lot of time creating/developing our projects.
Would you say that most films that are recorded using flash memory are grainy, or would it depend on pixels, HD, quality of cam, etc.?
The Flip MinoHD and Kodak Zi6 will do 720p, so should look decent on any digital TV. Kodak has an SD slot, so if you want to record soccer/football/basketball games, that might be a better choice. Kodak is a little bigger overall, but also has bigger viewing screen and replaceable batteries. The Flip is more of a go anywhere camera.
Depends on the resolution you record at. On mine it has ultra fine ( use if have an HD tv ), fine ( the one I usually use ), normal and economy.
Ultra fine gives about 7 hrs, Fine about 10.5 hours, Normal about 14 hours, Economy about 37 hours. With each of these you can also insert a SD card which gives additional space. For a 4 GB - Ultral 1 hour, Fine 1.5, normal 2, Economy 5.
Of course before all you space is used up, yo can upload what you did to the computer and then delete what you used. These are all record time though, not battery time
Very helpful, TheCipher. You guys are making the job easier.
Thanks, smokingfrog. I don’t particularly like the flip cam’s. I like a camcorder with a little more weight to it, which makes filming easier. Image stabilizer helps, but I like the feel of a heftier camcorder.
I can’t give you any input on what’s a good cam, I can however give yuo a link I found years ago on FR.
Poor Man’s Steady-Cam
If you want to build one yourself, you can do so for only $14 and the instructions are freely available at steadycam.org
Just visited the site. Great resource. I’ve considered the tool, but it was too expensive....until now.
Have you built one of these SteadiCams? Our family will be visiting the hardware store after purchasing a camcorder. This is great.
Take it from someone who has owned both types of cameras... The 'flip' cameras are far more likely to get used -- because you are far more likely to have the camera with you when you need it. I've taken thousands of still shots, and countless hours of video with my 'flip' camera which fits into a pocket. My old Panasonic Handi-Cam took no more than 6 hours of video before being retired. We very seldom had that camera with us when we needed it.
I've had three different models of 'hybrid' from SVP, and I will most likely own another in the near future. The wife destroyed the LCD hinge on the first camera by dropping it, and then destroyed the second camera by soaking it in water. We've had the third camera for a year, and it is still going strong. Fortunately, the cameras can be had for ~$130 each if you're lucky with eBay.
Here's the one I've been using for the past year: HDDV-9000, and I love it! It has a 7MP CCD, so it can take fairly decent still shots. Ignore the 12MP interpolation (aka:scaling) hype. The video is limited to 720x480 @30fps, but SVP has a new model out which claims full HD 1440x1080p @30fps: T-500. It appears the T-500 uses a CMOS sensor rather than CCD. I'm not a big fan of CMOS sensors, but maybe they have gotten better since I last compared them to CCD. Make sure you get a high ISO range if you want to be able to shoot in low light levels. The HDDV-9000 supports up to ISO 1000. Both models can handle 16GB SD flash cards. I've been getting approximately 3 hours of video on a 4GB SD card. Stepping up to the 1440x1080p camera will probably require a 16GB card to get the same 3 hours of record time. Removable lithium batteries and a stand-alone charger are very important features. I believe I'm getting around one hour per battery... give-or-take a few minutes.
The TV In/Out features, remote control, and a small tripod are also handy. Being my third camera, I now have a collection of 6 batteries, one stand-alone charger, and a tripod.
In addition to the CCD/Pixel count, there's also the processor and its associated software(firmware). All that is related to camera quality, with the higher end models costing more. HD is HD because it records more detail, and more detail requires more storage. Seems to me that miniDVD is going to be limited compared to what you can get in flash cards these days, and flash also has the advantage of being smaller. Internal HDD's are susceptible to shock and being internal you'll be required to transfer to computer before freeing up space for your next project, whereas cards or other portable media can be swapped out for different subjects or scenes as needs dictate.
> 1. Hard drives are fragile. Flash cards can be run through the washing machine.
Ah, I see you have met my wife then.
If the gizmo has blinking lights and digital numbers, it’s best to just throw it in the front yard. And, about that coffee, I confounded a lady behind a counter when I ordered “coffee.” She went into this whole list of stuff and I said, “just coffee.” Apparently in some coffee shops there is no such thing. I finlly said, “just take this cup here, put some of that brown stuff into it from that container, and hand it to me.” She didn’t know what to charge for it so she gave it to me for free.
You misread. I’m getting rid of the MiniDV tape camcorder and going for the flash memory camcorder.
All new camcorders will let you transfer video via USB 2.0. Transferring from tape is almost real time though so if you have 20 minutes of footage it will take nearly as long to transfer. Copying a file is much faster.
The newer Canon HD camcorders store the files in a more recent compression mode. That’s why you want to wait.
I’m also thinking of Canon’s latest superzoom camera. It records 1080p HD video to flash memory as well but it’s not as easy to physically hold for video capture. I take a lot more photos than video and being able to consolidate does have it’s own advantages.
I understood your post. I just wanted to ask what motivated you to purchase the MiniDV initially.
Your posts have been beneficial. Thank you for taking the time.
TJI
InfraRed, thanks for the info/advice. I can see the advantage with a flip cam., but I use a Canon PowerShot A610 for still shots (my kids use the video feature a lot, but the record time is impractical). The only down side to the this model is that it doesn’t have a stabilizer feature.
We’re planning to use the camcorder quite a lot in making homegrown films. We have Roxio Creator DE. Grant it, it’s a simple program, but enough for the kids to get started.
Once again, thank you.
TJI
This is great advice. Thank you, AFreeBird.
TJI
I see you confused the “Barrista”. On your next visit, hand her a $20.00 bill, 2 singles, and $.35 in change after purchasing a double blended mocha chai with soy and a sprig of mint on ice (I know. It’s not coffee to me either). Watch her head spin.
I bought the Canon ZR850 MiniDV a few years ago to replace a long serving Canon analog camcorder that finally gave up the ghost. It was one of the first that could record to a flash memory card but the processor in the unit makes for lousy files; recording uncompressed to the tape resulted in much better video. That is nolonger the case however in newer camcorders.
One of the things that gives me pause before going HighDef is post processing. I edit much of the video I shoot and I don’t know if I have a computer capable of handling the HD processing. I may have to upgrade my computer when I upgrade my camcorder!
However, if you have an HDTV that accepts an SD Flash memory card, you can go from camera to TV just by inserting it there. The cameras I’m looking at now all have HDMI output as well.
After responding earlier, I took a closer look at the Canon PowerShot SX1 IS “Ultrazoom” camera. It’s not out just yet but I see the HD video mode format compresses to a Quicktime .MOV format. I’m not a big fan of that and would prefer an AVCHD format like their Vixia HF20 camcorder.
Panasonic is coming out with an HD Video recording ultrasoom camera mid-summer. I may have to wait and compare as I like Panasoic too.
Like you, I prefer to go with the KISS principle.
I have one, but modified it slightly, I only had an olympic size 5lb plate weight, so had to get a Olympic Adapter Sleeve to hold the plate as a counterweight.
Took me longer to find that sleeve and collect my tools than to make the steadicam.
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