Posted on 04/30/2009 10:15:22 AM PDT by fiscon1
The Politico graphically illustrates just how ugly the political civil war is getting in the aftermath of Arlen Specter leaving the party.
Faced with a high-profile defection and the prospect of political irrelevance in the Senate, Republicans took off the gloves Wednesday for a ferocious game of finger-pointing.
Republican Sens. Orrin Hatch and George Voinovich blamed the Club for Growth for imposing a right-wing litmus test that chased Arlen Specter out of the Republican Party. The Club for Growth blamed Specter — first for helping to ruin the GOP and then for leaving it. A leading Republican strategist blamed the party for turning its back on moderates. Sen. Lindsey Graham sniped at Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele. Specter’s pollster blamed the stimulus bill. Karl Rove blamed Specter himself.
(Excerpt) Read more at theeprovocateur.blogspot.com ...
This is funny. They want to point the blame. Well, I will. A pox on all of them. They’re all a bunch of losers.
Gingrich warns of third party in 2012...
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/02/gingrich-warns-of-third-party-in-2012/
We need to go FULL BORE Conservative in the GOP in order to keep the grass roots involved in the Party.
When one crook calls another a crook, it’s not news. They’re all crooks. The general public will soon see that ALL of them are crooks, just like the people who elected them. Government truly does represent the people. When the people decide they need moral values (no, you can’t sleep with your neighbor’s wife), then government will eventually become a better institution and not until such happens.
Not a damned thing, and that's the dirty little secret of this whole media-led, Democrat-fed campaign to convince Republicans to abandon conservatives.
This false meme is being repeated endlessly throughout the mainstream media, with the full approval of the Democrat Party to which Arlen Specter and the media are both now fully committed.
The Republican Party has moved Left, not Right since the 1980s, and it has done so partly in sympathy with the Democrat Party, which has moved far to the Left in the same time period.
One need only consider the issue of so-called "Gay marriage". As recently as 25 years ago, most mainstream liberal Democrats wouldn't even consider such a thing, not because they thought it unachievable, but because they (still) thought it bizarre and destructive of fundamental family values. By contrast, today's mainstream Democrats view opposition to Gay "marriage" as the province of hate-mongers.
The San Francisco Democrats of 1984 did tend to "Blame America First", in Jeanne Kirkpatrick's timeless phrase, but they almost always drew the line of criticizing their country at the water's edge. One cannot imagine Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale, George McGovern or Lloyd Bentsen daring to say a word against their native land while speaking from foreign shores. Even Jimmy Carter held his tongue, until senility and bitterness overcame him.
Today, a Democrat President trots around the globe serially apologizing for America's mistakes, real and (mostly) imagined.
Republicans, who in the '90s would have cut off their own arms rather than raise them in support of new Federal entitlement programs, new bureaucracies, and the deficit spending to "fund" them - have in recent times done so with reckless abandon.
No: the Republican Party has not moved to the "Right" at all. Instead it has melted into a muddled, centrist puddle of colorless mush, reflecting nothing, and stirring no one.
The Democrats, for their part have moved to embrace the left of European Social Democrats and the secular, internationalist welfare state model for which they stand. It is in that direction that Arlen Specter has chosen to turn his heels, and given his lifetime proclivity for unprincipled self-interest, it is well that he should.
Rove’s got it about right.
“FULL BORE Conservative”
Your definition?
that’s because democrats ARE moderates, silly!
i think it’s time for you to go back to re-education camp!
So RINOs...Hows it feel to be out of power.....Guess that attitude of “who ya gonna vote for...the ‘Rats?” didn't work out too well for ya? Maybe you RINOs would be better off with the ‘rats after all.....F’in RINOs can go suck eggs as far as MY vote is concerned!
Kansas58
“Getting rid of RINO’s is the best way to avoid a Third Party split. We need to go FULL BORE Conservative in the GOP in order to keep the grass roots involved in the Party.”
I was there voting with Republicans for (RINO) McCain, but I won’t do it again! I will vote Libertarian if no Conservative Republican is on the top of the ticket!
Why should anyone vote Republican today? The party is old, it has no good ideas that people can follow and their marketing machine is a joke.
Oh yeah, they don’t have a person ready to unify the party and while I don’t have an issue with Sarah Palin I see her as filling a role for people who want to believe in someone rather than anything she has done to date. Same for Jindal.
Why don’t those crazy “Pubs point the finger at what caused the problem: their slavish devotion to the false religion of laisse faire capitalism and the false gods of big business and businessmen.
parsy, who once suffered from Republicanitis but got cured
Did Voinobitch cry again?
Ronald Reagan Conservatism.
I think we all need to look at who are elected Republicans are, and if we do not like them we need to recruit against them in the Primary.
I think, after the Primary, most of the time, we should vote for the Republican and NOT the Democrat.
However, I think we need to recruit against ANY Republican who is not with us on Social and Economic issues.
If for no other reason than the fact that this will get that “sacrificial lamb” candidate some experience for future runs, and the fact that this effort will FORCE the incumbent Republican to the RIGHT.
By “FULL BORE CONSERVATIVE” I mean that we need to be recruiting and fighting in the trenches.
We can fully afford to have a few elected officials who are not with us, on every issue, as long as MOST of Congress is WITH US on ALL the issues.
(We need Conservative Republicans to be in the majority. We need to make sure that those Republicans that do NOT agree with us on everything, cancel each other out.)
The PRIMARY is where Conservatives show their strengths and make CHANGES!
Go for it.
I honestly do NOT see the GOP getting better anytime soon. It is fundimentally fractured between conservatives and moderates and no one will give any ground.
I would lay money down on a permanent fracture occuring. The culture war has spread to within the GOP itself.
Getting rid of RINO’s is the best way to avoid a Third Party split.
Exactly! Rebuild from the ground up....ALL RINOS OUT!
Specter is a demoncRAT wearing a PUB title just so that he can hang onto his Chairmanship of Senate Judiciary. What would be the ultimate irony is that a demoncRAT challenger for his PA seat would defeat him followed by the demoncRAT being defeated by a PUB. Where’s Sophocles?
because they won.
Let the RINO hunt begin. Get rid of all these bastards and then maybe we’ll have a chance.
That would be fine except for the fact that the entire deck is stacked against you and in favor of liberals, media and money.
At some point conservatives have to stop squandering their precious chips in a rigged game.
So, will you fall for the next Ross Perot clown?
The Republican Party is our only hope.
Yes, the Party is broken -—
SO LETS FIX IT!
Nonsense.
We are in the financial mess we are in BECAUSE of liberal government.
Forcing lenders to make loans to people who could not pay them back was a Liberal DEMOCRAT idea.
The mortgage industry gives far more campaign cash to Democrats than to Republicans, and it always has.
Wall Street gives HEAVILY to Democrats.
Capitalism WORKS!
Crony Capitalism, mixed with Socialism, gets as Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and the mortgage melt down.
There are more hard core conservatives in Congress now, as a percentage of total Republicans, than ever before.
The Republican Party IS becoming more conservative.
At the same time, the grass roots are becoming less patient.
You would rather squander your chips, as you put it -—
WHERE?
As bad as it looks, the GOP is STILL the best hope we have.
Period.
That's funny, because whenever Republicans won, the media would instantly insist that they must "reach out" to their opponents and promise to "govern from the center". After which, the GOP would happily comply and then the Democrats would grab their media megaphones to accuse them of being controlled by right-wing radicals.
So, win or lose, Democrats get to accuse Republicans of being captive to diabolical forces and Republicans get to apologize and beg for mercy.
Sorry, but I'm getting off this bus.
It's the Club for Growth trying to turn this to it's own advantage and Orrin Hatch settling a little score with them. Normal going to take up arms one way or the other in a battle of prima donnas.
If your standard is ironclad unity and tightly constricting bonds of loyalty unto death, it might look like a "civil war," but in normal political terms it's just another sideshow or foodfight.
Meant to say “Nobody normal is going to take up arms one way or the other in a battle of prima donnas.”
No way, man. I have this mental image of Liberal Re-education Camp counselors, and they all look like this:
< shudder...>
Just let it go. Life is too short to spend it trying to repair the unrepairable. It's time for a new vehicle.
Bottom line is this: I don't care one way or the other about the survival of the Republican Party. But, I do care deeply about the survival of the republic and what the future holds for my children and grandchildren.
Fringe groups like the head of the RNC and Orrin Hatch who’s been in the senate longer than I have been alive? Is this what you mean by “fringe groups”?
What do you call a bunch of powerful politicians pointing fingers at each other over the demise of the party if not a political civil war?
I didn’t make the statement.
When people say things like that it neither defines the candidate or the position.
Exactly: what’s the definition of conservative anymore?
Levin’s book has a better approach. Liberal and conservative don’t mean much anymore in a world where Specter is a conservative. If McCain, or Bush, is a conservative, what does that word mean?
The original 10 amendments to the Constitution, and the founders’ own philosophies are all you need.
You either believe the State has all the rights, and determines which rights the individual gets, or the individual has the rights, and defines which rights the State gets.
Things get pretty simple at that point if you’re running for President. Seriously, if all you have to worry about is your philosopy on the nine rights afforded the federal government, the rest of your answers become:
“It’s not a right the federal government has. To the extent SCOTUS and the left believes that the state does have that right, my belief is that people are going to differ on that issue, and they should have the right to live in the state the most appropriately reflects your views on the matter. Personally, I’d rather live in a state that values life, or believes marriage is first a religious rite and secondly a legal status. Regardless, for the federal government to deny people the choice of living in states that better reflect their values, and to have a national set of values imposed on those citizes is the opposite of what the founders intended. If Utah believes that public prayer in State-owned facilities is appropriate, then it should be legal there. If MA feels differently about that, and the people there agree, then that’s OK too. Those that disagree in either state are free to swap houses and live in places that more reflect their values.
Here’s my promise: I won’t allow the federal government to overstep the boundaries the founders imposed on it. The states are the laboratories of society, not the fed. I will guarantee that the fed will meet its constitutional responsibilities.”
the issue is we cannot allow ourselves to be pigeon holed as far right. WE are the middle,the great mass of American. spector was never middle of the road. he’s always been left. Look at some defining issues,look at amnesty. All polls repeatedly say NO to amnesty. yet we’ve been painted as far right on this. Its a centrist issue. we’re the center. The center has always been more conservative in its nature in this country. The vast majority was outraged at bailing out irresponsible borrowers yet we were painted as cold hearted for wanting someone,anyone to simply say NO. This is the center. we’re not racists. we believe in each being rewarded by what they produce,regardless of race creed or color. Not paying someone according to the circumstances of their birth. All these politicians can point their fingers and blame the “right” Damn few of them have the faintest idea of what the right is in this country. We may be to the right of the dem’s and much of the republican party but we smack dab in the middle of this country.
Fringe groups like the Club for Growth. Maybe "fringe" is the wrong word. Try "lobby" or "advocacy group." I'm not saying they're extremist, just that they have their own particular agenda and don't always speak for a wider public.
You'll find a lot of Republicans who agree with what they claim to stand for in broad terms, but I doubt very many people bother with every press release they issue.
For example, I may agree or disagree with them about protectionism, but I'm certainly not going to sign their petition to keep free trade with China. It's a stunt designed to call attention to themselves.
Politicians like Orrin Hatch trying to settle scores. If he and the other Senators are really bringing all their weight to swatting at this or that advocacy group, then I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised.
Things look different in Washington, though. Orrin might actually think "He was my friend and you drove him out of our party." But to me that looks more like a personal grudge than any "Republican Civil War."
“the GOP is STILL the best hope we have”
The centrist, middle-of-the-road, moderate GOP?
Every article I’ve read on Specter’s defection describes him as a “moderate” Republican. Then they make a point of mentioning other “moderates”—like McCain, Snowe & Co. who want to: “bring the GOP to the center”.
You’ve drunk the MSM Kool-aid, Jayhawk/or Wildcat.
To the Associated Press, NYT & Co., “moderate” means Arlen Specter.
The “GOP moderates” can go pound sand in a rat-hole.
After reading your comments about purging the party of RINO’s.....I absolutely agree.....we need to get back to our conservative roots and the RINO’s can go Dem or fund their own loser party.....
PS When was the last time you saw a Democrat, like Pelosi, Kennedy, Obama or Kennedy, described as:
“liberal Democrat” ___________? Never, because it is assumed that they are “moderates”.
Nam Vet
What civil war?
The present Republican party stands for nothing and is fighting for nothing. They’re not fighting their base so much as ignoring their base.
A civil war would be refreshing. Conservatives would have someone to root for.
then this political civil war is all about power. That said, Demint has weighed in on this so you will see conservatives attempting to get their position down.
This last election was the second of a two election referendum on the republican party. Now the party continues to implode instead of getting its act together on putting out a message that people want to follow. Obama lied out his bony ass to get elected. There is a chance that a good candidate with a limited government message could win and the same holds true for the mid-term. If the party is going to have dipshits like Bachman spouting off and becoming the face of the party then the country is done. Her rightwing version of moonbatism gets worshiped around here but trying to wonder why swine flu comes back under a democrat in 2009 when it was last seen under Carter was moronic.
Excellent. Thoughtful. Cogent. Understandable.
No undefined “I’m a FULL BORE CONSERVATIVE.”
So refreshing.
which is what i was trying to point out. ceding the title “moderate or middle” is a mistake. we’re the middle.
I got an email this morning that claimed Spector began his political career as a Democrat and switched to the Republican Party many years ago. Since he switched back he should now be known as Spector the Defector. I have no idea if that is true or when he might have changed parties the first time. Interesting.
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