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Another Look at CIFTA
http://soitgoesinshreveport.blogspot.com/2009/05/another-look-at-cifta.html ^ | 05/03/2009 | Pat Austin

Posted on 05/03/2009 8:08:42 AM PDT by paustin110

CIFTA is another attempt at gun control. It's safe to assume that if Mexico can't get guns from the United States, the drug runners and criminals would get them elsewhere. There are plenty of other places where they can (and do) get guns.

Yes, lots of guns seized in Mexico come from the United States. No question. But that's indicative of a whole other sort of problem; the fact that drug runners can get guns doesn't mean that America should end-run the Second Amendment. Bad logic.

Another point of faulty logic is that 33 nations in the Western Hemisphere have signed on to this treaty, so it must be good, right? Wrong. Those nations do not have a Second Amendment to the Constitution.

(Excerpt) Read more at soitgoesinshreveport.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; ccw; cifta; donttreadonme; guncontrol; mexico; mythof90percent; obama; rkba; shallnotbeinfringed

1 posted on 05/03/2009 8:08:42 AM PDT by paustin110
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To: paustin110

Mexican drug cartels get more than 75% of their guns from Central america, not North America. The ATF uses only “traceable guns” when it counts the numbers that come from America, and weven then, the vast majority of American-made guns come from other countries who bought them from us.


2 posted on 05/03/2009 8:38:48 AM PDT by Polarik (Forgeries are forever)
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To: Polarik

The drug cartels in Mexico have enough money to get their guns from anywhere. They could buy them from Hamas if they needed to.

Mexico’s gun violence is neither our problem or our responsiblity.


3 posted on 05/03/2009 8:47:12 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: paustin110

Folks have worried in the past that this day would come, myself included.

Personally I would like to like to think that there are enough honorable persons in congress that will stand up & oppose this tripe. But do not bet the farm on it.


4 posted on 05/03/2009 8:51:45 AM PDT by fuzzybutt
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To: Polarik
The ATF uses only “traceable guns” when it counts the numbers that come from America,

Rest assured that the Mexican Army is armed with M-16s straight from Colt USA. Care to bet how many of those show up in the hands of the drug gangs? ATF should know if any of the traced guns were sold via legitimate commerce to the Mexican government but they aren't saying one way or the other.

Regards,
GtG

5 posted on 05/03/2009 9:05:38 AM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: paustin110
It's safe to assume that if Mexico can't get guns from the United States, the drug runners and criminals would get them elsewhere. There are plenty of other places where they can (and do) get guns.

The Administration knows this all too well. Their only concern is disarming the American people because they fear an armed populace.

Just to show where the Administration's priorities lie, just look at their actions regarding Mexico's teetering on the brink of chaos. Mexico's problems are being used as a pretense to implement massive gun control in the US.

Does anybody still think that Obama is still "too busy to pursue gun control during this economic turmoil"? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

Remember, never let a good crisis go to waste.

6 posted on 05/03/2009 9:39:37 AM PDT by SIDENET ("You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.")
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To: paustin110
Treaties Do Not Supersede the Constitution Read this.
7 posted on 05/03/2009 11:06:19 AM PDT by An Old Man (Use it up, Wear it out, Make it do, or Do without.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray; Beckwith; FrdmLvr; Prole; backhoe; Jet Jaguar; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ETL; ...
Rest assured that the Mexican Army is armed with M-16s straight from Colt USA. Care to bet how many of those show up in the hands of the drug gangs? ATF should know if any of the traced guns were sold via legitimate commerce to the Mexican government but they aren't saying one way or the other.

Whether it's drug cartels, the Army, or the local Politsia, Mexico gets the vast majority of its guns from Latin America.

Care to bet which country supplies the most arms to Latin America? (HINT: Not the US. Not even close)

 

Percentage of Supplier Deliveries Value by Region, 2000-2007

 

Asia

Near_East

Latin_America

Africa

   

2000-2003

2004-2007

2000-2003

2004-2007

2000-2003

2004-2007

2000-2003

2004-2007

United_States 33.44% 32.83% 63.46% 62.67% 2.75% 4.00% 0.35% 0.49%
Russia 85.16% 69.19% 10.97% 16.76% 0.65% 10.81% 3.23% 3.24%
France 10.53% 19.51% 85.96% 74.39% 1.75% 4.88% 1.75% 1.22%
United_Kingdom 4.00% 6.32% 96.00% 84.21% 0.00% 2.11% 0.00% 7.37%
China 55.17% 56.10% 31.03% 21.95% 0.00% 2.44% 13.79% 19.51%
Germany 64.71% 39.13% 23.53% 13.04% 0.00% 0.00% 11.76% 47.83%
Italy 20.00% 20.00% 20.00% 0.00% 40.00% 20.00% 20.00% 60.00%
All_Other_European 18.92% 28.26% 58.11% 34.78% 9.46% 26.09% 13.51% 10.87%
All_Others 73.03% 61.22% 14.61% 18.37% 4.49% 14.29% 7.87% 6.12%

Source: U.S. Government

8 posted on 05/03/2009 11:46:03 AM PDT by Polarik (Forgeries are forever)
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To: Polarik; Joe Brower; Travis McGee; MeekOneGOP; devolve; Grampa Dave; BOBTHENAILER
Wang Jun's excellent White House adventure

BILL-ee, BILL-ee!--Hyoo got sum 'splainin' too doo!.

9 posted on 05/03/2009 12:59:19 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hussein: Islamo-Commie from Kenya)
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To: PhilDragoo

Balwin’s analysis of CIFTA was good.


10 posted on 05/03/2009 1:23:26 PM PDT by BOBTHENAILER (the obamination will ruin this nation)
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To: Polarik
Obama's agenda is clear. It appears he wants to achieve it using back room bureaucracy supported by the fawning leftist press. Trying to use a treaty attempts to move the "action" into the international realm where Obama hopes our representatives in Congress will have less control over the issue.
11 posted on 05/03/2009 1:49:12 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Dog Gone; Beckwith; FrdmLvr; Prole; backhoe; Jet Jaguar; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ETL; Brown Deer; ...
Here's an article written by Rep. Tom Tancredo on 04/30 that's worth reading.

Why the Lies About Guns Going to Mexico?


The Mexican Ambassador to the United States, Auturo Sarukhan, appeared on a CBS news program recently and repeated a lie we have heard for many months about the violence in Mexico. The ambassador says Americans are to blame for the violence wrecked on his country by the Mexican drug cartels because "most of the guns confiscated by Mexican police can be traced back to the United States. That is not true, but the way that claim has been accepted by American politicians and the mainstream media raises suspicions about a hidden agenda.

ATFE's Fake Number

We can almost forgive the Mexican ambassador for being confused when the United States agency responsible for enforcing our gun laws, the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, has made so many contradictory statements on the matter. ATFE Assistant Director William Hoover told Congress last year that 90% of the weapons seized in Mexico crime scenes can be traced to gun sales in the US.

The problem is that 90% number isn't true. Yet, that hasn't kept it from being picked up and used by members of Congress, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and, of course, Mexican officials like Ambassador Sarukhan who are eager to blame the US for Mexico's problems.

Real Weapons Source?

The 90% number reported by Hoover came from a small group of weapons turned over to the U.S. for tracing, but they were by no means all of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities. A spokesman for the ATFE, Matt Allen, has now "clarified" the number and admitted that only 17% of the weapons found at crime scenes in Mexico have been traced to the U.S. Ironically, while Mexican officials have freely used the 90% number from the ATFE, they have not themselves made such a charge based on their own numbers. The truth is, they know better.

We can easily understand Mexico's reasons for preferring the 90% number to the more accurate 17%. Mexico does not want to openly discuss the many other sources of advanced weapons being used by the drug cartels. Thousands of advanced weapons and tons of military equipment are stolen from its own military and state police. Weapons are smuggled across its southern borders from Guatemala and by boats landing on its 8,000 miles of coastline, weapons that often originate in Venezuela, Colombia, and Nicaragua, or from purchases in Eastern Europe. But it is easier for a Mexican politician to blame the U.S. than to explain his own government's failure to police its borders, its ports of entry and its military installations.

Did the Mexican ambassador mention that over 100,000 soldiers have deserted the Mexican army in the past seven years and that many of them took their weapons with them and joined the cartels?

Lax Vehicle Inspection

Certainly, no one will deny that thousands of guns have been smuggled from the U.S. into Mexico, but not the rocket-propelled grenades and 50 caliber machine guns that the cartels have in abundance. You can't buy that stuff at gun shops in Texas or Arizona. But for the sake of argument, what if it was true that 30% of the weapons used by the cartels originated in the U.S.? Could it be that Mexico has invited this traffic by its policy of not inspecting the vehicles entering Mexico from the U.S.? Mexico only changed that policy two weeks ago and announced that it will beef up its border inspections. And could it be that Mexico's decades-long opposition to a U.S. border fence and increased border patrol vigilance has something to do with the success of the cartels' gun-smuggling operations?

Why Strange Obama Response?

But what accounts for the Obama administration's eagerness to let Mexico blame the U.S. for its spiraling violence? Two explanations are possible: It may be that blaming American gun laws is for many Americans an easy answer to what seems like an insoluble problem. If we can end Mexico's chaos by making changes on this side of the border, that's far easier than expecting Mexico to make difficult and painful changes of its own -- like hiring honest cops and paying them a decent wage.

The other explanation is more troublesome. Maybe the Obama administration has no clue how to help Mexico but sees an opportunity to help itself. It is obvious that Obama's teams at the Justice Department and the State Department are exploiting the violence in Mexico to justify more restrictions on gun ownership by Americans. The Obama crew's hostility to the Second Amendment has been clear for months. This may be yet another example of Rahm Emanuel's maxim: "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

Mexico needs to face its own demons, beginning with the corruption within its law enforcement agencies and at its ports of entry. The U.S. can help in many ways, such as enhancing our own border security. But adding more restrictions on the ownership of guns by law-abiding Americans will not help Mexico.

If we are lucky, this theme of blaming American gun owners and gun shops is only a temporary distraction. If it is more than that, if the Obama administration really believes this is the answer to Mexico's problems, then we are lost in a swamp.

12 posted on 05/03/2009 3:56:48 PM PDT by Polarik (Forgeries are forever)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
Rest assured that the Mexican Army is armed with M-16s straight from Colt USA

Actually the Mexican Army has never liked having US made weapons. Currently they are converting over from license built H&K 91 (G-3) to a locally produced derivative of the H&K G-36, the FX-05 Xiuhcoatl

However some of their police use the M-16/AR-15. But I suspect most of those in the hands of the cartel came from non US produces, such as China

Perhaps without the normal Norinco markings

There are other countries which build the M-16 or clones of it, some under license, some not. Iran builds a version, but the issue furniture makes it not look like a US M-16.

13 posted on 05/03/2009 4:28:23 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
Actually the Mexican Army has never liked having US made weapons. Currently they are converting over from license built H&K 91

I stand corrected, I based my supposition on photos published by the MSM of Mex Army troops mixing it up with various miscreants. However my point is still valid, any full-auto M-16s that show up in Mexico most assuredly did not come from a "gun show" on our side of the border. I find it hard to believe that anyone with the patience to follow the Class III purchasing procedure to acquire a full auto firearm would turn around and pedal it to an undocumented third party. If for no other reason then fear of the ATF crawling up his "nether regions" with a microscope.

Regards,
GtG

PS The same comment goes for RPGs, hand grenades, and mortars, anything like that found at a gun show would have been rendered thoroughly inert.

14 posted on 05/03/2009 4:53:13 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray
However my point is still valid, any full-auto M-16s that show up in Mexico most assuredly did not come from a "gun show" on our side of the border.

Most assuredly, as I said, they may not be US made or even license produced M-16s.

Besides most M-16s, other than the M4s, are made by Fabric in, Columbia South Carolina, not by Colt. Been that way for a couple of decades. (Colts are or were made by members of the UAW, they got underbid by FN) Colt makes the "shorties", and they are very protective of that M4 designation. FN Manufacturing also makes the M-240 7.62x51 medium machine gun and the M-249 5.56x45 Squad Automatic Weapon

15 posted on 05/03/2009 11:04:03 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: paustin110

This is just another attempt at people control, not gun control. The countrys that signed this treaty are the banana republics of this hemisphere. Hell, even Mexico signed the thing and see how well that is going. Seems to me that Mexico wants bambi to disarm the US so when they melt down, their bad guys won’t have any trouble from us taxpayers who stand in the way of the reconquista.


16 posted on 05/12/2009 2:16:31 PM PDT by Texas resident (Older but smarter)
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