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Why the Indians (Native Americans)couldn't maintain their nation

Posted on 05/09/2009 10:22:40 AM PDT by big black dog

I just watched an old Hollywood movie and the answer was obvious. Their defense technique was just to ride around in circles while even women and children took pot shots at them picking them off.

They never had a chance. What idiots.


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: hollywood; indians; livechow; militarytactics; nativeamericans; ugh; vikingkittyfood
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1 posted on 05/09/2009 10:22:40 AM PDT by big black dog
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To: big black dog

IBZ


2 posted on 05/09/2009 10:23:51 AM PDT by Nick Danger (I am Obama of Borg. Allegiance is futile. You will be capitulated.)
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To: big black dog

Like the same strategy the Brits had, all dressed in red and march in a straight line. Remember that Cosby routine?


3 posted on 05/09/2009 10:24:15 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: big black dog

Some say it was alcohol and disease that killed the Indians but I say it was a bad relief pitching.


4 posted on 05/09/2009 10:24:47 AM PDT by fkabuckeyesrule
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To: big black dog
Because we have got

The Maxim gun

And they have not.


5 posted on 05/09/2009 10:25:52 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: big black dog

The only idiots are those who study battle tactic from movies.


6 posted on 05/09/2009 10:26:40 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: big black dog

Kind of like the Palestinians throwing rocks at tanks and apc’s.


7 posted on 05/09/2009 10:26:59 AM PDT by Ikemeister
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

lol


8 posted on 05/09/2009 10:27:41 AM PDT by BlueStateBlues (Blue State business, Red State heart........Palin 2012, can't come soon enough.)
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To: big black dog

Demographics are destiny.


9 posted on 05/09/2009 10:28:28 AM PDT by Paladin2 (Big Ears + Big Spending --> BigEarMarx, the man behind TOTUS)
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To: Ev Reeman

What you saw was a Hollywood Vision of the Indian Wars. My ancestors were old Indian Fighters. The truth was you would never see an Indian until the sunk an arrow into someone. They lost because they were divided into tribes. When ever they worked together they could win victories (Like Little Big Horn)but, they fought among themselves, some even worked with the White Man to undermine their “enemies” and so lost as well. There is a lesson here. United we stand, divided we fall.


10 posted on 05/09/2009 10:28:41 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: big black dog
Circle the Indians! The wagons are attacking!

Someone needs to turn off the tube and read up on Crazy Horse, Geronimo, and others' tactics. Sheesh!

11 posted on 05/09/2009 10:29:24 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: big black dog

Speaking of baseball, there’s an old, now suppressed, story of Tigers who do that turning into butter.


12 posted on 05/09/2009 10:29:36 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: big black dog

IBTZ.2


13 posted on 05/09/2009 10:30:11 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Shouldn't there be equal time for our Bill of Responsibilities?" -- Justice Clarence Thomas)
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To: mnehring; big black dog

Right. You should study the posts here.


14 posted on 05/09/2009 10:31:19 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Fight the bastards or perish! ~ Jim Robinson ~ ├×)
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To: Old Sarge

Ping


15 posted on 05/09/2009 10:31:44 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

They could have won it all in ‘97 if Jose Mesa had done his job and got the save in Game 7.


16 posted on 05/09/2009 10:32:39 AM PDT by GOP_Raider (Have you risen above your own public education today?)
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To: mnehring; big black dog

“The only idiots are those who study battle tactic from movies.”

That’s a fact. More could be learned here. (assuming some actually want to learn something):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2233470/posts
We Shall Remain - PBS American Experience


17 posted on 05/09/2009 10:34:26 AM PDT by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade
White men have bee sneaking up on Indians for years--Dan George - Outlaw Josey Wales
18 posted on 05/09/2009 10:36:13 AM PDT by oyez (To the extent veterans read it as an accusation -- and apology is owed(i.e. not given))
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

“What you saw was a Hollywood Vision of the Indian Wars. My ancestors were old Indian Fighters. The truth was you would never see an Indian until the sunk an arrow into someone. They lost because they were divided into tribes. When ever they worked together they could win victories (Like Little Big Horn)but, they fought among themselves, some even worked with the White Man to undermine their “enemies” and so lost as well. There is a lesson here. United we stand, divided we fall.”

Yep!


19 posted on 05/09/2009 10:36:15 AM PDT by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: big black dog

When was the movie filmed 1940? Many different tribes had advanced fighting techniques. However, it would be difficult to win against superior weapons and disease.


20 posted on 05/09/2009 10:39:12 AM PDT by brwnsuga (Proud, BLACK, Beautiful, Conservative!!!)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

I finished Centennial and it has a segment on how the Indians did indeed fight each other.


21 posted on 05/09/2009 10:39:57 AM PDT by mel
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To: big black dog

It would be a real shame if a member of FR allowed himself to be deluded and ignorant because of Hollywood. Many of us are conservative, traditional Americans.

So, are you going to come back and discuss, or are you just trying to be “cute”?


22 posted on 05/09/2009 10:41:00 AM PDT by kenth
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To: big black dog

That and the superior guns that the Old West had that could kill 20 indians for every shot fired.


23 posted on 05/09/2009 10:41:31 AM PDT by DannyTN ( Impeach and Deport)
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To: Paladin2; Ikemeister; big black dog

“Demographics are destiny.”

And Europe (and even us) will soon discover how true that is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU&feature=channel_page

Knowing that we should be able to control it, but most of us are asleep and by the time we wake up it’ll be too late.


24 posted on 05/09/2009 10:43:35 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: mnehring
The only idiots are those who study battle tactic from movies

Bingo!!!

25 posted on 05/09/2009 10:43:58 AM PDT by Pistolshot (The Soap-box, The Ballot-box, The Jury-box, And The Cartridge-Box ...we are past 2 of them.)
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To: big black dog
I seem to have heard something about "Guns Germs and Steel" somewhere.
26 posted on 05/09/2009 10:44:49 AM PDT by tpmintx (Liberalism: Solving problems caused by Jealousy with solutions based on Lies.)
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To: big black dog

Disease was the biggest killer of the Indians. They did not have any immunity or defense against common white man diseases.


27 posted on 05/09/2009 10:45:27 AM PDT by Chet 99
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To: Ev Reeman

I had a Brit explain that one to me. He said the red coat was used so if a shoulder was shot the enemy would not know.


28 posted on 05/09/2009 10:45:39 AM PDT by svcw (There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who know binary and those who don't.)
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To: big black dog

Guerrilla tactics that colonists learned from Indians during the French And Indian War helped Americans win the Revolutionary War.


29 posted on 05/09/2009 10:45:47 AM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (Obama promised a gold mine, but he will give us the shaft.)
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To: big black dog

"Your name, big black dog . . . is it Native American?"

30 posted on 05/09/2009 10:45:47 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: big black dog

Illegal Immigration has always been a problem. Just ask the Indians.


31 posted on 05/09/2009 10:45:48 AM PDT by BGHater (It's easy to be a Conservative now.)
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To: big black dog

You’re assuming that an old Hollywood movie accurately depicts the battle tactics of tribal groups. I would imagine that the film director would choose the battle tactics that best fit his movie.


32 posted on 05/09/2009 10:48:20 AM PDT by beejaa
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To: big black dog

Remember “Blazing Saddles?”

It was hysterical when they met up with the injuns.


33 posted on 05/09/2009 10:51:10 AM PDT by Gat˙n(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: mnehring

I was gonna say - Hollywood isn’t exactly known for historical accuracy.


34 posted on 05/09/2009 10:52:44 AM PDT by kc8ukw
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To: BGHater

“Illegal Immigration has always been a problem. Just ask the Indians.”

Absolutely. The biggest problem for the Indian is the same problem we have....US leaders who refuse to use the rule of law and instead rule by special interests. History does indeed repeat itself. We consider ourselves ‘land owners’...but the government owns our homes by way of taxation, regulation, etc. just as they did to the Indian and we’re just as vulnerable to losing our culture and homes as the Indian was.


35 posted on 05/09/2009 10:55:03 AM PDT by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: big black dog
You might want to ask George Armstrong Custer about Indian tactics. The Seminole, the Shawnee, the Creek, the Apache and others also gave the US Army a rough time for a pretty long while. And the Comanche ran the Texas Rangers ragged for a couple or three decades. What? 125 years to completly subdue a people with stoneage technology. Methinks, they were over powered by sheer manpower and western technology not by tactics. Too many “B” westerns?
36 posted on 05/09/2009 10:55:22 AM PDT by Tupelo
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To: Tupelo

Chief Sitting Bull this is Custer, Custer Sitting Bull, call the toss Cus. Cus called heads it’s tails, you lose Cus. ha. What do you want to do Bull? Bull says they will kick off. Bull says for you to take all your men down to the valley and remain in a circle while he and all the Indians in the world ride down on you.


37 posted on 05/09/2009 11:00:51 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: mnehring

“The only idiots are those who study battle tactic from movies.”

Hear, hear, touche’ and all that jazz.


38 posted on 05/09/2009 11:03:12 AM PDT by CaliGirlGodHelpMe
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To: fkabuckeyesrule

I called Jacobs Field today, asking for the start time for today’s game.
They asked me what time could I get there?


39 posted on 05/09/2009 11:03:19 AM PDT by cydcharisse
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To: Tupelo

Did you get to see the PBS series now airing, “We shall remain”? They actually did a pretty good job on this.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2233470/posts


40 posted on 05/09/2009 11:04:15 AM PDT by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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To: mel
“I finished Centennial”

Centennial should be required reading for anyone wanting to move to Colorado. I lived there several years before the book came out and never knew why the natives there acted as they did until I read it.
Fiction but it splanes a lot.

41 posted on 05/09/2009 11:04:34 AM PDT by Tupelo
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To: svcw

The red coats (and every other variety of bright uniforms) served as communication devices. All immediate control of battlefield formations was visual, and the colors allowed distant commanders knowledge of unit movements and integrity.


42 posted on 05/09/2009 11:05:16 AM PDT by warchild9 (Starve the Beast: don't buy it if you don't need it)
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To: big black dog

Bad dog. No biscuit.


43 posted on 05/09/2009 11:06:05 AM PDT by Redcloak ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Tupelo
What? 125 years to completly subdue a people with stoneage technology.

For 'stoneage technology' Native Americans were pretty good at adopting advanced weaponry & even some tactics for their best employment.

The tribes of the interior probably could have held out indefinitely were it not for the railroads/telegraph and the strategic mobility that this lent to the European/Americans.

Plus when 1 side is willing to wipe-out your food stocks & hunt you in your winter encampments, it's pretty much 'Game Over' no matter how much you might outmaneuver your opponent.

44 posted on 05/09/2009 11:08:49 AM PDT by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: big black dog

They were doomed by their primitive culture. They hadn’t yet “discovered” the wheel and they had no written language for starters.


45 posted on 05/09/2009 11:09:20 AM PDT by fullchroma (right-wing radical in pearls and lipstick)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade; nathanbedford
There is a lesson here. United we stand, divided we fall.

Within the tribal social structure the Chief of the tribe was the Peace Chief. War parties were organized under a War Chief, chosen by a group of young braves that had some grievance against a neighboring tribe or the settlers which could be anything from infringing on the tribe's territory, revenge or just plain old plunder. The rare cases of tribal unity against a common enemy were the Iroquois vs the Huron (and the French) and the Sioux tribes vs the 7th Cavalry.

The Iroquois went to war to establish a monopoly in trade in the NE and Canada, their ally and trading partner was the British and the British colonists. The Sioux went to war to stop the advance of the settlers who were protected by the US Army. Their reasoning was simple....deliver a crushing blow to the US Army and the settlers would retreat. (The best laid schemes.....)

Only one tribe invested in full time military incorporated into the tribe after the the repercussions from the massacre at the Little Big Horn. They were the Cheyenne.
46 posted on 05/09/2009 11:12:26 AM PDT by BIGLOOK (Keelhaul Congress! It's the sensible solution to restore Command to the People.)
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To: warchild9
The red coats (and every other variety of bright uniforms) served as communication devices. All immediate control of battlefield formations was visual, and the colors allowed distant commanders knowledge of unit movements and integrity.

And the best part was that the enemy commanders weren't likewise able to exploit that visual information, because... uh, um.

Forget it!

Regards,

47 posted on 05/09/2009 11:14:10 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

They also ate each other. Truly........


48 posted on 05/09/2009 11:14:51 AM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

I think you hit the nail on the head. The Indian tribes fought valiantly, and they had advantages of knowing the terrain, and being masterful guerilla fighters. Not to mention the pretty effective terror techniques that some tribes employed, which, although distasteful, certainly had the desired effect.

However, they faced an enemy the likes of which they had never encountered, and I think their culture didn’t have the time to react and adapt to it. They did adapt western technology and knowledge when it was useful to them, but without a real overhaul, their society was too decentralized to make an effective resistance.

Throughout history, the only time I can think of primarily nomadic cultures defeating agrarian-urban cultures was when the nomads had a clear technological, numerical, or strategic advantage; otherwise it was only a temporary opportunistic victory when the settled civillizations had been weakened due to things like prior wars, internal upheavals, famines, etc.


49 posted on 05/09/2009 11:17:16 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: fullchroma

“They were doomed by their primitive culture. “

Wouldn’t it be nice if such problems could be boiled down to such a simple explanation?

How about those Indians who became more prosperous and better educated than their white neighbors?

What doomed the Indian is what doomed any culture. A more powerful culture bent on having what they want at any cost.
History does repeat itself. When the sovereign US citizen ceases to exist, I’m sure the Muslim/whatever culture takes over will say we were doomed by our ‘primitive culture’ as well.


50 posted on 05/09/2009 11:17:25 AM PDT by AuntB (The right to vote in America: Blacks 1870; Women 1920; Native Americans 1925; Foreigners 2008)
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