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PRIVACY: HOW TO COMMUNICATE?
self ^ | 5/10/09 | A Navy Vet

Posted on 05/10/2009 5:43:05 PM PDT by A Navy Vet

With the ever encroaching Fedgov looking in and trying to control our personal lives, I'm looking for way that Americans can still communicate privately.

I understand that any answers given on this public forum, may alert the various gov agencies to a new work-around. I'm hoping someone can provide a fool proof answer even on this public board.

Internet e-mail and forums are easily compromised (ISP's easliy traceable); phone conversations, well, we all know about taps; Ham radio can be intercepted; CB radio the same. And no, face to face comms and devised codes are not the answer I'm looking for - too cumbersome and too slow. Same as snail-mail.

Although there are a few encrypted Internet programs out there such as PGP phone, that particular one is buggy depending on your computer setup (power, memory, firewalls, anti-virus, etc.).

Is anyone aware of any other encrypted Internet programs that the average person doesn't need an expensive doomsday program and a $10,000 server that will simply facilitate privacy? If not Internet, how can anyone possibly have a private conversation? What am I missing...???


TOPICS: Computers/Internet; Education; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: communication; privacy
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1 posted on 05/10/2009 5:43:05 PM PDT by A Navy Vet
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To: A Navy Vet; Neil E. Wright; Jim Robinson

FYI


2 posted on 05/10/2009 5:43:48 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: A Navy Vet

How about sitting down and writing them a snail mail letter?


3 posted on 05/10/2009 5:47:33 PM PDT by Tucker39 (I Tim. 1:15b " .....Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.")
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To: Tucker39
"How about sitting down and writing them a snail mail letter?"

As I mentioned above, "snail mail" is too slow. But thanks for you input.

4 posted on 05/10/2009 5:49:01 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: A Navy Vet

PGP isn’t all that buggy but it does have a back door, as will most other publicly available encryption tools. Any cipher can be broken given enough computer time.

Likewise you could very well be a plant looking to make a list of who is interested in this stuff.


5 posted on 05/10/2009 5:51:51 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: A Navy Vet

If you can generate a truly random key - and get a copy to your partner, it is not decodable. It would have to be long enough to not repeat for a good while - easy if you’re just using text. Your text is simply exclusive Or’d with the key. The reverse is done on the other side. The only plaintext is the location where the key is to start for each message.

You could generate a random key via sampling the output of a “noise circuit”. Nope, not digital noise (pseudo random sequences) - those can be undone quite easily.

Others have had this thought. We’re going to need it in the upcoming fight with the Obamaloons.


6 posted on 05/10/2009 5:52:13 PM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: A Navy Vet

I’ve used proxy servers before and encryption tools for my pc, but in the end, I have changed my Ip address on a couple of occasions which is not difficult. (No, I don’t do it on FR but when Dling “stuff”):)


7 posted on 05/10/2009 5:54:25 PM PDT by max americana
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To: A Navy Vet

8 posted on 05/10/2009 5:54:43 PM PDT by neal1960 (This space for rent.)
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To: A Navy Vet
As I mentioned above, "snail mail" is too slow.

Why would snail mail be too slow? Flesh out the scenario some...

9 posted on 05/10/2009 5:54:58 PM PDT by GOPJ (If Nixon had been a Democrat, Woodward and Bernstein would have been Linda Tripp.)
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To: A Navy Vet

10 posted on 05/10/2009 5:56:05 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Sprechen sie Austrian? Happy Quatro de taco!)
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To: A Navy Vet

any program such as “hide it” or “stash it.” they scramble text messages within an image. probably easy to decrypt if “they” know where to look though. ;)


11 posted on 05/10/2009 5:56:21 PM PDT by robomatik
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To: Da Coyote

“If you can generate a truly random key - and get a copy to your partner, it is not decodable.”

Yes it is, all it takes is computer time. Generally its a matter of cost. Is it cheaper to get the info another way or tie up the computer for however long. With todays faster computers the bar is a LOT lower.

Even the industry standard encryption algorithm 3DES is hackable.

Most of all the OS of any PC on either end is probably compromised by the NSA.


12 posted on 05/10/2009 5:59:10 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: A Navy Vet

I would call a local reporter. If the news was important enough, a story would run the next day.


13 posted on 05/10/2009 6:00:06 PM PDT by GOPJ (If Nixon had been a Democrat, Woodward and Bernstein would have been Linda Tripp.)
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To: A Navy Vet

14 posted on 05/10/2009 6:00:32 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: A Navy Vet

Basically anything on a PC (Windows, MAC, Linux) is not 100% secure.


15 posted on 05/10/2009 6:02:55 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: A Navy Vet

The trick is to make your message so unimportant that no one wants to know what you’re saying. There is no technology known that can capture every phone message to every number.


16 posted on 05/10/2009 6:03:23 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: A Navy Vet

17 posted on 05/10/2009 6:05:49 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Sprechen sie Austrian? Happy Quatro de taco!)
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To: count-your-change

The trick is to make your message so unimportant that no one wants to know what you’re saying.

I’m THERE baby!


18 posted on 05/10/2009 6:05:56 PM PDT by DeLaine (Navy blue)
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To: A Navy Vet
carrier pigeon?
19 posted on 05/10/2009 6:07:10 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( Don't mess with the mockingbird! /\/\ http://tiny.cc/freepthis)
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To: count-your-change

“There is no technology known that can capture every phone message to every number.”

Don’t need to capture ‘every’ message. They just need to engage trigger words to flag certain calls.

They can also monitor who posts to sites like this and just track their phones.


20 posted on 05/10/2009 6:07:25 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: A Navy Vet
You need to use GnuPG, it is free.

http://www.gnupg.org/

Once you get it, generate your personal key pair. Keep the private key on your computer, and don't give it to anyone (they don't need it.) But make your public key known to anyone you care about. Then other people can encrypt messages using your public key that only you, using your private key, can decrypt.

If you use Thunderbird for email then it has a plugin for GnuPG. If you use something else, or a webmail like Google, then you can decrypt just by copy and paste. Encrypted messages look like random text.

Here are some examples and instructions. But GnuPG has plenty of manuals, on the same Web site where you download it.

21 posted on 05/10/2009 6:08:39 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: driftdiver; Jim Robinson; Neil E. Wright
"PGP isn’t all that buggy but it does have a back door, as will most other publicly available encryption tools. Any cipher can be broken given enough computer time."

PGP was buggy for me, but if it has a "back door", then it's usless.

So your point is that "most...publicly available encryption tools" that are not easily decrypted are expensive? Do I have that correct? If so, what would be the cost of a safe private encryption program that takes time to break?

Likewise you could very well be a plant looking to make a list of who is interested in this stuff."

I knew that would be an immediate concern...good for you for questioning my intent so quickly. However, just ask the owner of this forum (JR)to verify my bona fides. I used to work with him in person, face to face, and we are still both members of a Veterans organization, although not as close as we used to be. But he knows who and what I'm about. Just send him a Freepmail or personal e-mail or call him at his forum number.

Again, I appreciate your response.

22 posted on 05/10/2009 6:08:42 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

There are numerous software programs which understand morse code.


23 posted on 05/10/2009 6:09:25 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: A Navy Vet
What's wrong with a public conversation?

If this is not the End of Times, this socialistic movement will resolve itself...because the human love of freedom cannot be defeated.

Until and unless (this is), that is...The End of Times.

If Obama is really "The One" (i.e. the muslim messiah as proclaimed by Louie Farrakhan) and is supported by "supernatural forces"...well, normal expectations cannot be, er, expected.

The question is, of course, is Obama the one all of us have been awaiting.

Is he the Messiah to the hell bound and the Beast to worshipers of the One True God?

IMHO, the jury is still out...but, as time passes, the odds are increasing that Obama is the awaited One.

He certainly believes he is (and so do Oprah, Louie, et al).

In the end, we may be separated from our heads for speaking the Truth...but that shouldn't stop us from communicating!

Sounds like an honorable duty...bare your neck for your witness of Jesus!

Rev 20:4

"...and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands..."


24 posted on 05/10/2009 6:10:32 PM PDT by SonOfDarkSkies
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To: A Navy Vet
telepathy?

Even that can be hacked, but at least there is no evidence...

Maybe telepathy in code.
It'd be fun to watch the thought police decipher it! LOL

25 posted on 05/10/2009 6:11:23 PM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: driftdiver
There are numerous software programs which understand morse code

LOL! Ok. Tell me what that says.

26 posted on 05/10/2009 6:12:42 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Sprechen sie Austrian? Happy Quatro de taco!)
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To: A Navy Vet
Bounce through multiple proxy servers, 3 should due to mask who you are.....This doesn't help who is receiving the message if they are being monitored....

All commercial encryption methods are already compromised by NSA.....

I'm a telecom engineer so that is why I know these things....we get a lot of fraud we need to trace....

27 posted on 05/10/2009 6:12:58 PM PDT by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: A Navy Vet

Fax!


28 posted on 05/10/2009 6:14:40 PM PDT by FReepapalooza (Joshua 3:4 ..."for ye have not passed this way heretofore.")
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To: Da Coyote
Not sure I understand all you said, but it sounds like a cipher with a keyword. Those can be broken if the wrong people get the keyword. But then, I may not get your entire concept. I will forward this to a friend.

And yes, you get my drift, as I'm sure the Fed agencies do also after reading this. However, we still have the 1st Amendment right to speak in privacy. Thank you for your input.

29 posted on 05/10/2009 6:15:08 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: neal1960

Killing me!


30 posted on 05/10/2009 6:15:52 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: A Navy Vet
Correct, Ham can be intercepted, but a true code, as opposed to a cipher - what most people think is code - can be made virtually unbreakable without years of pattern analysis.

and you can change the code book faster than that.
Hundreds of codes would drive people trying to intercept you nuts.

Study up on codes and ciphers.

31 posted on 05/10/2009 6:16:31 PM PDT by bill1952 (Power is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: A Navy Vet

STU III ?


32 posted on 05/10/2009 6:16:50 PM PDT by Sylvester McMonkey McBean
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To: GOPJ
As I mentioned above, "snail mail" is too slow.

"Why would snail mail be too slow? Flesh out the scenario some..."

I have. Sometimes people need immediate comms. Maybe I missing something in your "scenario".

33 posted on 05/10/2009 6:17:58 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: bill1952; driftdiver
Correct, Ham can be intercepted, but a true code, as opposed to a cipher - what most people think is code - can be made virtually unbreakable without years of pattern analysis.

Thank you.

One time pad with a random key generator. Drop back 100 years and punt. Would drive them nuts.

34 posted on 05/10/2009 6:19:39 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Sprechen sie Austrian? Happy Quatro de taco!)
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To: GOPJ
"I would call a local reporter. If the news was important enough, a story would run the next day."

That's all good for some circumstances and who knows if the liberal media would even bother to run it. Mostly, I'm talking about PRIVATE communications that we should have access to. Thanks.

35 posted on 05/10/2009 6:21:59 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: A Navy Vet

“So your point is that “most...publicly available encryption tools” that are not easily decrypted are expensive? Do I have that correct? If so, what would be the cost of a safe private encryption program that takes time to break?”

No, most (read all) publicly available encryption programs are fine for normal everyday use. PGP is pretty cheap and will defeat most anyone except the USG, Chinese, or Russians.

All (that I know of) programs are most likely compromised by the USG and have backdoors built into them that only USG can use. There have been numerous public stories about this. The govt does not like people having secrets they cannot access.

Straight encryption using random numbers is not that secure. Encryption algorithms are used in conjunction with a random number to make it much more difficult. The longer the key the more secure it will be. All currently known encryption algorithms have been broken. It can take a lot of processing power and time but then sometimes it won’t take all that long. I know several Chinese nationals who work at a major US bank that break 3DES encryption for fun.

“However, just ask the owner of this forum (JR)to verify my bona fides”

This is a public forum full of people DHS considers a threat because most of us are conservatives and don’t support the current administration.

As an aside the Chinese installed modified chips which were used in networking equipment. These chips provided them a hidden connection into any network using that equipment. The most well known was Cisco and the hardware ended up in major US companies and govt agencies.


36 posted on 05/10/2009 6:22:22 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: A Navy Vet
Depending on how much info you need to exchange, steganography might help. Part of the appeal of steganography is that it isn't clear to an outside observer that what you are sending contains encoded information.
37 posted on 05/10/2009 6:22:31 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Party? I don't have one anymore.)
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To: GOPJ

“I would call a local reporter. If the news was important enough, a story would run the next day.”

The press has never printed the truth in this story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBpHSyuueMU


38 posted on 05/10/2009 6:23:15 PM PDT by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of history will repeat, repeat and repeat.)
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To: mysterio

Ha! Good one! But what if someone were to tap into the string? Sneaking out the window days would be over!


39 posted on 05/10/2009 6:23:34 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Its been a long time since I studied morse code and was never that good. This old guy who taught me could exceed 40 words per minute. He was one of those guys who used it for the rail roads in the early 1900’s.

As for that code, I don’t know what it says. I remember seeing it somewhere and know it was broken.

I think the only code that wasn’t broken was the Navajo Indians in WWII.


40 posted on 05/10/2009 6:25:25 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
"Basically anything on a PC (Windows, MAC, Linux) is not 100% secure."

So again, we are talking about an expensive encryption program on an expensive dedicate server? Do I have that right?

41 posted on 05/10/2009 6:26:42 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: count-your-change
"The trick is to make your message so unimportant that no one wants to know what you’re saying. There is no technology known that can capture every phone message to every number."

Unless you become a suspect for even some reason, no matter how innocent. Then the technology kicks in.

42 posted on 05/10/2009 6:29:09 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: A Navy Vet

It can be done, but will tend to be a lot of work.

Doubtful you would be successful using computer programs, as “they” will always have more computer resources than you.

If the comms are that important, expect to devote a team just to send and receive them. This, then, opens up an entirely new line of weakness in your secured comms.

One old technique was using telephone books as keys, there are even better keys now, but along the same idea.


43 posted on 05/10/2009 6:29:50 PM PDT by wrench
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To: A Navy Vet

“So again, we are talking about an expensive encryption program on an expensive dedicate server? Do I have that right? “

No, use any public program. I think PGP costs about $30 and you don’t need a server.

I’m saying that the govt most likely have code put in every OS that allows them to access the computer. They have even talked about doing that recently.

The open source Linux is probably most secure but it would not be difficult to insert something in there. Or insert it into the hardware.

I’m saying if you want 100% security then stay away from a networked computer.


44 posted on 05/10/2009 6:30:03 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: smokingfrog
"carrier pigeon"

Okay, I'm spewing my Coke! Thanks for that!

45 posted on 05/10/2009 6:30:45 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: A Navy Vet

46 posted on 05/10/2009 6:31:31 PM PDT by stormer
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To: Greysard; A Navy Vet
Keep the private key on your computer

I recommend off-line storage on an external harddrive or USB when not needed due to Trojan horses, et al.
47 posted on 05/10/2009 6:32:29 PM PDT by callisto (It's the three T's, stupid: Too Many Taxes, Trillions in Debt, and Transparency)
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To: driftdiver
“If you can generate a truly random key - and get a copy to your partner, it is not decodable.”

Yes it is, all it takes is computer time.

Not quite true. If the key is truly random (not the pseudo-random you get from a digital computer) and is used only once (i.e. one-time pad) it cannot be broken. That doesn't mean the message can't be guessed, but the decoder can never be sure the message was decoded properly.

I've investigated the randomness of sequences of numbers taken from the phone book, and from sources such as the STATISTICAL ABSTRACT OF THE UNITED STATES, and they are sufficiently random to be used as one-time pads. For the phone book, use the last two digits of phone numbers, working down the page. From a source of statistical data such as the STAT ABSTRACT, ignore the final digit (it's been rounded, which may degrade randomness), and use the next-to-last and the next-to-next-to-last digits. Exclusive-or them with the text of the message to get the encrypted message. Recover the message by exclusive-oring the key with the encrypted message.

USE THE RANDOM KEY ONLY ONCE! (And yes, I mean to shout!)

You need to have some means of informing the recipient of such thing as page number, starting line, etc.

Remember that even if the message can't be decrypted by "them," the fact that you're sending an encrypted message is itself suspicious.

48 posted on 05/10/2009 6:34:52 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney
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To: driftdiver
"They just need to engage trigger words to flag certain calls."

Therein lies the ultimate problem with phone calls, HAM&CB radio, and open Internet comms. Wasn't there a name for that particular DHS or FBI screening program? It escapes me at the moment. I wonder if it still exists? But then how would we know even if we were told it was shut down?

Is there anyone we can trust any longer? Man, I'm starting to sound like a conspiracy nut that I have fought against for years.

49 posted on 05/10/2009 6:37:11 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever.)
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To: driftdiver
Any cipher can be broken given enough computer time.

True, but computer time is a finite resource. Thus gubmint agencies who wish to snoop encrypted messages must pick and choose messages that are likely to be interesting.

Let's say that Mahmoud sends Ali an encrypted message that's 45,258 bytes long, and Bob sends Alice an encrypted message that's also 45,258 bytes long. Agent Smith wants to catch Mahmoud and Ali, but not waste his time on Bob and Alice. Without some prior knowledge of who sent which message to whom, Agent Smith risks seeing Mahmoud and Ali slip through his fingers because he used his computer time to decode Bob's grocery shopping list to Alice.

The lesson for the rest of us, assuming that Agent "O" is more interested in catching Americans than he is catching Mahmoud and Ali, is to encrypt everything. OK Agent "O", which message is the plans for the secret tea party meeting and which is Sarah Palin's Møøsë pie recipe?

50 posted on 05/10/2009 6:38:30 PM PDT by Redcloak ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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