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In Hawaii in 1961, there were three different birth certificates
townhall.com ^

Posted on 05/12/2009 11:46:25 AM PDT by cycle of discernment

Townhall.com May 12, 2009

Generally, folks don't know that Hawaii law, even in 1961, provided for multiple kinds of birth records, most of which are not what people think of when they think of birth certificates. The following is a description of those, including certificates for people not born in Hawaii. Go figure!

1. In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were three different birth certificates that were obtainable: a. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961). b. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or mid wife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, an adult could, upon testimony, file a “Delayed Certificate”, which required endorsement on the Delayed Certificate of a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing, which evidence must be kept in a special permanent file. The statute provided that the probative value of the Delayed Certificate must be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. (See Section 57-18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961). c. If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

2. In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory or State of Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth certificate for a person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.

3. The language of the statute clearly applies to births in the days of the Territory of Hawaii, so also births in 1961.

4. A press release concerning numerous questions raised across the country as to whether or not Obama was a natural born citizen was issued on October 31, 2008 by the Hawaii Department of Health by its Director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino.

5. In that very carefully worded press release, Dr. Fukino said that she had “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”

6. The intentional ambiguity of that statement raises more questions that it answered.

7. That statement failed to resolve any of the questions being raised by litigation across the country over the issue of Obama’s birth and qualifications for the office of the President of the United States, including: a. The specific type of certificate was not identified. Could it be the certificate for someone born outside of the State of Hawaii? b. Being “on record” could mean either that its contents are in the computer database of the department or an actual “vault” original. If the latter, those are the words used to describe what is there. The data base record could have been entered based on a birth record for someone born outside of Hawaii. c. Therefore, the value as prima facie evidence is limited and easily overcome if any of the allegations of substantial evidence of birth outside Hawaii can be obtained and verified with a Court Order.

8. It should also be noted that in the face of all this litigation, the simple presentation of Obama’s vault birth records would put the questions to rest.

9. Obama has not taken this approach to a single one of the cases, but instead has hired legal counsel across the country at no small expense to defend the claims with motions to dismiss on standing and similar procedural grounds.

10. Such response to the request for proof that he is qualified to serve as President of the United States of America only serves to raise more questions about this election.


TOPICS: Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: akaobama; birthcertificate; certifigate; citizen; colb; eligibility; ineligible; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; obama; obamanoncitizenissue; usurper
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1 posted on 05/12/2009 11:46:26 AM PDT by cycle of discernment
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To: cycle of discernment

I hope this issue continues to hound him until we get resolution on it.


2 posted on 05/12/2009 11:48:53 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: cycle of discernment

Well, once 0’s handlers tire of him they’ll likely dig it up.


3 posted on 05/12/2009 11:49:35 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: cycle of discernment

Maybe the GM bondholders can sue to see his birth certificate. One would think that since they are being damaged financially that the suit couldn’t be thrown out for lack of standing or whatever that legal term is.


4 posted on 05/12/2009 11:51:23 AM PDT by mbr
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To: cycle of discernment
USING THE KNOWLEDGE WE NOW POSSESS, WE SHOULD DEMAND TO SEE THE OFFICIAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE OF THE..............TOTUS.
5 posted on 05/12/2009 11:51:34 AM PDT by wolfcreek ("unnamed "right-wing extremist")
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To: cycle of discernment

6 posted on 05/12/2009 11:51:53 AM PDT by Iron Munro (Suppose you were a clueless idiot, and suppose you were Barack Obama; but I repeat myself)
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To: cycle of discernment
Photobucket
7 posted on 05/12/2009 11:52:53 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: cycle of discernment; ~Kim4VRWC's~; 1COUNTER-MORTER-68; 21stCenturyFreeThinker; ...

Ping!


8 posted on 05/12/2009 11:53:00 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 113 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: cycle of discernment
Does anyone have an example of what the different forms look like?

I have no idea what a "long form" even looks like compared to the COB.

9 posted on 05/12/2009 11:53:19 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: freedumb2003

LOL!!!


10 posted on 05/12/2009 11:54:31 AM PDT by GoCards
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To: Iron Munro

Actually, O should be wearing a RED diaper.


11 posted on 05/12/2009 11:54:40 AM PDT by Carley (OBAMA IS A MALEVOLENT FORCE IN THE WORLD)
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To: Beckwith; Fred Nerks; David; Polarik; null and void; Grampa Dave; Jeff Head; backhoe; ...
In Hawaii in 1961, there were three different birth certificates
12 posted on 05/12/2009 11:55:31 AM PDT by LucyT
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To: wolfcreek
All he has to do is show it, period!

Mine is in my home safe and is required when I apply for a job or go to school.

This has always been a bugaboo for me and illegals going to school or work. My daughter had to produce hers and her shot record and SS#. How can an illegal waltz into a school and not a word be said?

Just like Animal Farm, some pigs are more equal than others.

13 posted on 05/12/2009 11:56:00 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: GoCards

What people should do is continue to sue. Force Bambi’s attorneys to spend spend spend on defending this.

That’s what Reagan would have done. He bankrupted the Soviets and we all saw the result.


14 posted on 05/12/2009 11:59:29 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Climate change alarmists are Warm-Mongers. Now that's funny right there. I don't care who you are.)
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To: onedoug
Well, once 0’s handlers tire of him they’ll likely dig it up.

Perhaps they are not the only ones who have a copy of the true documents.

Remember Bill Clinton's abrupt trip to Africa as soon as 0bama became a real threat? Why was that, do you 'spose?

As long as 0bama is pointing the country towards the status they want it to have when they take over he's safe. They get a dictatorship with that most precious of things - someone else to blame!

15 posted on 05/12/2009 11:59:41 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 113 of our national holiday from reality.)
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To: All

Why on earth is Barry fighting this so much. The more he resists, the more I think something is there. Maybe it wouldn’t disqualify him - but maybe it would be embarassing. Perhaps Barack Obama Sr isn’t his real father. He may have been born in Hawaii, but that someone else was his father ?? He would be still qualified to be Prez, but it wiould raise more questions.


16 posted on 05/12/2009 12:01:06 PM PDT by BigEdLB (Now there ARE 1,000,000 regrets - but it may be too late.)
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To: knarf

I have this url from 1963

http://snarkybytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg


17 posted on 05/12/2009 12:02:18 PM PDT by rreahsito
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To: cycle of discernment
" If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year."

Explains why Ogabe took all those trips to Hawaii.
18 posted on 05/12/2009 12:06:32 PM PDT by Electric Graffiti (Yonder stands your orphan with his gun)
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To: Electric Graffiti

” If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year.”

The “Original” birth certificate that “O” posted on his campaign site had “Date filed by Registrar” as August 8, 1961, so I wouldn’t see how he could get by with going over as an adult to create what was supposedly in existence in 1961.


19 posted on 05/12/2009 12:14:35 PM PDT by rreahsito
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To: rreahsito

I do, however, think they will trial float whatever scam they are going to try on venues such as FR, just to see what kind of holes people will poke in it.

Oooops gotta go, black caddy in front of the house.


20 posted on 05/12/2009 12:16:43 PM PDT by rreahsito
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To: cycle of discernment
This issue is a waste of time. FactCheck.org, funded by the Annenberg Center (as in appointee-of-Nixon-and-friend-of-Reagan Walter Annenberg), has thoroughly debunked every angle of this story; their full report is here, including several high-resolution photographs of (yes, the short form of) Obama's birth certificate. They also point out that there was a birth announcement in the local newspaper six days after he was born. Do you really believe that there was a conspiracy in place in 1961 to make it appear as though Obama was born in Hawaii that involved placing a birth announcement in the newspaper?

Obama was born in Hawaii. For a while it looked possible that this wasn't the case, and it was worth close and careful investigation. That investigation has been done. Some of you ask, "why won't Obama produce his birth certificate, if it will make this whole thing go away?" It occurs to me that maybe it's in his best interest not to. Sure, maybe he was secretly born in Kenya, but a vast conspiracy of people who wanted him to become President 47 years later placed a birth announcement in the newspaper, and then conspired with Hawaiian record-keeping agencies, hitherto non-partisan, to risk their quiet, bookish careers to lie about the records they have on file.

But maybe it's in Obama's best interest, given that most people have accepted the overwhelming evidence that he was born in the United States, to let a sliver of his most vociferous opponents waste their time chasing their own tails while looking rather silly to the rest of the country. Maybe he'd rather you were spending any time, even five minutes a day, pursuing an absolute dead end instead of criticizing his budget, or his homeland security policies, or his immigration stances, or his health care plan. If he provided his birth certificate, that waste of your time would go away, and you'd spend more time mounting arguments about things Obama actually cares about. Maybe, just maybe, you're being used by this issue. If there's any conspiracy here, that's the one I'd believe first.

21 posted on 05/12/2009 12:17:30 PM PDT by Devils Avocado
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To: chuckles
How can an illegal waltz into a school and not a word be said?

The same way they can waltz into an ER with a common cold, demand a Spanish interpreter and not be asked to produce a health insurance card and make a co-pay . . . and most likely will be served ahead of the American citizen who is bleeding on the floor.

22 posted on 05/12/2009 12:18:51 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or, are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: cycle of discernment

We should have NEVER let HI become a state! They were not ready.


23 posted on 05/12/2009 12:18:51 PM PDT by US Navy Vet
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To: rreahsito

True.....But you never know with this scumbag. That’s why Polarik’s tag line reads “forgeries are forever”


24 posted on 05/12/2009 12:20:42 PM PDT by Electric Graffiti (Yonder stands your orphan with his gun)
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To: Devils Avocado
there was a birth announcement in the local newspaper six days after he was born.

That is not prima facia evidence of the location of his birth. That said,

I don't think it's a waste of a few people's time and efforts to chase this down. I'm perfectly willing to lean back and watch how it all develops. If nothing comes of it, so what? These few intrepid souls have already been branded as kooks by the media.

25 posted on 05/12/2009 12:30:09 PM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (FreepMail me if you want on the Bourbon ping list!)
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To: Devils Avocado

There’s nothing to see here really /sarc goron

Obama has lived for 48 years without leaving any footprints — none! There is no Obama documentation — no bona fides — no paper trail — nothing.

Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released
Certificate of Live Birth — Released — Counterfeit
Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released

Obama/Dunham divorce — Released (by independent investigators)
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released

Soetoro/Dunham divorce — Released (by independent investigators)
Fransiskus Assisi School School application — Released
Punahou School records — Not released
Selective Service Registration — Released — Counterfeit
Occidental College records — Not released
Passport (Pakistan) — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None (maybe 1, unsigned?)
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

From ‘The Obama File’ http://www.theobamafile.com/
by Beckwith (our own FReeper)

The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com for inclusion in its historic collections
of Internet materials
http://www.theobamafile.com/LibraryOfCongress.html


26 posted on 05/12/2009 12:37:05 PM PDT by Electric Graffiti (Yonder stands your orphan with his gun)
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To: Devils Avocado

What?

Factcheck is discredited.

Do you subscribe to the same approach regarding his non-release of all his college, most of his medical, selective service and passport records?

Just what will comprise the Obama presidential library one wonders, since he has covered his history with opacity, numerous akas and undisclosed biographical information?

Remember Obama told us in Dreams of My Father that he used his “birth certificate” as a bookmark, kept it close at hand as cherished.

Surely such a well-worn and tattered momento shares no resemblance to the freshly “minted” ( read photoshopped) COLB offered up on factcheck, do you think?


27 posted on 05/12/2009 12:38:08 PM PDT by cycle of discernment
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To: Devils Avocado
Do you really believe that there was a conspiracy in place in 1961 to make it appear as though Obama was born in Hawaii that involved placing a birth announcement in the newspaper?

A lot of people contrive US citizenship for their children in order that they may gain the advantages of such citizenship. Mexican anchor babies are one example. A mom having a kid in Kenya would plausibly fake a US birth for her child too, given the chance.

28 posted on 05/12/2009 12:44:11 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: rreahsito

I have this url from 1963


Wow that’s a pretty old url! ;)


29 posted on 05/12/2009 12:46:34 PM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: LucyT

Vedddy interesting, on Townhall too ;^)


30 posted on 05/12/2009 12:47:33 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (I'd rather the world hate us then laugh at us)
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To: cycle of discernment

bttt


31 posted on 05/12/2009 12:49:06 PM PDT by TigersEye (Cloward-Piven Strategy)
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To: antiRepublicrat
A mom having a kid in Kenya would plausibly fake a US birth for her child too, given the chance.

She wouldn't need to go through that. The child would be a US citizen because the mother was, though not natural born.

Plus his father, if it's who he says it was, was not a US citizen therefore anyway you look at it, zer0 is ineligible.

32 posted on 05/12/2009 12:57:10 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (I'd rather the world hate us then laugh at us)
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To: freedomlover

I have this url from 1963
Wow that’s a pretty old url! ;)

internet shorthand - it’s the latest thing.

Correct to:
I have this url from a 1963 BC.


33 posted on 05/12/2009 12:58:55 PM PDT by rreahsito
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To: freedumb2003

Re: #7 - That’s still my favorite. Makes me laugh every time.


34 posted on 05/12/2009 12:59:55 PM PDT by Faith
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To: Electric Graffiti; Gemsbok; Devils Avocado; Beckwith; Fred Nerks

Updated, with thanks to Gemsbok:

0bama has lived for half a century
without leaving any footprints — none. Why would (and how could) that be?

Here is the tip of the iceberg. The Noelani Elementary School Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.

There is a citation for this on the megathread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2040486/posts

This is an important feature because K-records for original school entry would have contained the following:

1. His REAL Birth Certificate.

2. An application with the following:

—1.. His Legal name.
—2.. Parents or Legal Guardians’ names.
—3. Date of Birth
—4. Place of Birth
—5. Vaccination Records (revealing a timeline to the place and DOB.)

It also is important for two reasons:

A. The Dept.of Education does not “lose” the records of one particular student. (So, ... Who paid whom what sum to make this record disappear?)

B. There would have been NO shameful low-test scores, NO embarassing Equal Opportunity advancements, and NO trails of fraudulent funding to hide which could possibly ‘excuse’ the quashing of public school Kindergarten entry records. For the rest of his life he attended very expensive private schools and has had his records legally sealed to deny the public, his true life story.

This is different. Hawaii should be able to verify he attended their school since he is featured in class photographs. State and federal tax dollars paid for his initial year of education. Why is there no documentation?

This is the ‘tip of the iceberg’ of an intentionally erased life of a fraudulent conman and it reeks of complicity by officials within the State of Hawaii’s
Dept. of Health & Dept of Education

Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released
Noelani Elementary School Kindergarten records - Missing
Certificate of Live Birth — Released — Counterfeit
0bama/Dunham marriage license — Not released

0bama/Dunham divorce — Released (by independent investigators):

Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released

Soetoro/Dunham divorce — Released (by independent investigators):

Fransiskus Assisi School School application — Released
Punahou School records — Not released
Selective Service Registration — Released — Counterfeit
0ccidental College records — Not released
Passport (Pakistan) — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None (maybe 1, unsigned?)
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

From ‘The Obama File’ http://www.theobamafile.com/
by Beckwith (our own FReeper)

The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com for inclusion in its historic collections
of Internet materials
http://www.theobamafile.com/LibraryOfCongress.html


35 posted on 05/12/2009 1:02:14 PM PDT by LucyT
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To: Devils Avocado

I don’t think it is to Obama’s advantage to keep this going.

Conservatives are not “chacing their tails” on it so much that they are ignoring the other problems of dear leader. It just chips away at his credibility - and according to you - for no reason.

BTW, Annenberg Center was also a funder of Obama’s community activism with Bill Ayers to “immprove” education in Chicago. Obama lies; they swear to it.


36 posted on 05/12/2009 1:05:23 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Las Vegas Ron

She wouldn’t need to go through that. The child would be a US citizen because the mother was, though not natural born.

Not true

The laws on the books at the time of his birth hold that U.S. citizenship may only pass to a child born overseas to a U.S. citizen parent and non-citizen parent if the former was at least 19 years of age. Sen. Obama’s mother was only 18 at the time. Therefore, because U.S. citizenship could not legally be passed on to him, Obama could not be registered as a “natural born” citizen


37 posted on 05/12/2009 1:07:44 PM PDT by rreahsito
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To: Las Vegas Ron
The child would be a US citizen because the mother was, though not natural born.

There was that thing about residency requirement back then that she couldn't meet. She probably didn't want to have to go through the paperwork of making him a citizen later, easier to fake a Hawaiian birth by putting an announcement in the paper and submitting for a certificate of birth.

38 posted on 05/12/2009 1:14:17 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: rreahsito
I know, no matter how you slice it, he is not natural born.

I've read different accounts though on the laws regarding conferring citizenship to an underage mother's child, whether the birth occurred in or out of the country.

It is a well established fact the father was not a citizen, therefore zer0 is not eligible. But that would only count in a country where race doesn't trump the law.

39 posted on 05/12/2009 1:16:59 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (I'd rather the world hate us then laugh at us)
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To: LucyT
The Noelani Elementary School Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.

Well, all his other records are missing or not released......at least he's consistent. /s
And the leftist press had 200 or more rabid 'reporters' trying to dig up Bush's Air National Guard records. No, there's no bias here at all. /barf off
40 posted on 05/12/2009 1:17:04 PM PDT by Electric Graffiti (Yonder stands your orphan with his gun)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: antiRepublicrat
Well, from what I have read she was a commie so it wouldn't really surprise me.

In fact it's getting difficult these days to surprise me with anything

42 posted on 05/12/2009 1:23:14 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (I'd rather the world hate us then laugh at us)
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To: Devils Avocado
Do you really believe that there was a conspiracy in place in 1961 to make it appear as though Obama was born in Hawaii that involved placing a birth announcement in the newspaper?


If not for that, I might have some interest in this, but that issue fact (?) alone puts it to bed for me.

Heck if it turns out there was a conspiracy deep enough to put that together we are screwed anyway.

43 posted on 05/12/2009 1:23:42 PM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: Las Vegas Ron
AND, the 1948 British Citizenship Act automatically granted British Citizenship to ALL children of ANY MALE British Citizen, married or not.

If Bambi was born in Hawaii, doubtful at best, and his father was a “Green Card” holder then Bambi would be a NBC. Because Obama, Sr. was on a student visa, The 1948 British Citizenship Act. is applicable and Bambi is full of sh-t!

44 posted on 05/12/2009 1:26:16 PM PDT by WellyP
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To: rreahsito

1963 BC!
Wow even older than I first thunk it! ;)


45 posted on 05/12/2009 1:26:32 PM PDT by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: freedomlover

Not a conspiracy, just utilitarian.

I’m sure in 1961, Obama’s mother wanted all the privileges of a child born in the US...this alone is motive to lie on the affidavit to gain some iteration of certification for her offspring.

Rather than risk red tape, maybe bias.


46 posted on 05/12/2009 1:30:32 PM PDT by cycle of discernment
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To: cycle of discernment
I have posted this a few times before. Stanley Ann Dunham was in CUBA from mid-Sept. 1960 to late December 1960. Obama was born on 4 August? “Who the daddy”? Do the math!
47 posted on 05/12/2009 1:36:32 PM PDT by WellyP
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To: WellyP

What was she doing in Cuber and where did you get this info?


48 posted on 05/12/2009 1:40:13 PM PDT by Electric Graffiti (Yonder stands your orphan with his gun)
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To: freedomlover
Heck if it turns out there was a conspiracy deep enough to put that together we are screwed anyway.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a conspiracy that goes that far back, there are other compelling reasons those announcements might have been placed.

That aside, you have no curiosity as to why he won't just show the proper documentation, not to mention the disappearance of all his other records?

49 posted on 05/12/2009 1:42:04 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron (I'd rather the world hate us then laugh at us)
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To: Devils Avocado

“FactCheck.org, funded by the Annenberg Center (as in appointee-of-Nixon-and-friend-of-Reagan Walter Annenberg), has thoroughly debunked every angle of this story”

Not so fast Bunkie!

Debunking FactCheck.org’s debunking:

http://www.theobamafile.com/_BogusPOTUS/20090217.htm#FactCheck010


50 posted on 05/12/2009 1:45:38 PM PDT by Beckwith (A "natural born citizen" -- two American citizen parents and born in the USA.)
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