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Defining a Moderate Part II: Isn't Moderate Just a Fancy Word for Sissy?
Moderate Thinking ^ | May 6th, 2009 | Nils Bergeson

Posted on 06/10/2009 3:58:20 AM PDT by Nils Bergeson

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To: beandog

Al Qaeda are not moderates. You know exactly what to expect from them. I dont trust them either.

All politicians decide issues on what “makes them look better”. Its just that their core constituency is different.


41 posted on 06/10/2009 8:44:43 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: dangus

Is that because they hold those opinions dear, or because they know if they went against them they would be out of office in double quick time, and no one would be paying them anything again?


42 posted on 06/10/2009 8:47:21 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: pburgh01

Interesting interpretation of scripture. Try this one:

“Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.” Philippians 4:5


43 posted on 06/10/2009 9:35:59 AM PDT by Nils Bergeson
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To: TurtleUp

What you are explaining is an appeaser or one who compromises morals. The article explains how a true Moderate is neither of those things.


44 posted on 06/10/2009 9:35:59 AM PDT by Nils Bergeson
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To: oblomov

Good question. I think what you are describing is Centrism, which in my mind doesn’t necessarily equate with Moderation. As you explain, there are some things which do not balance well. While we don’t want to be somewhere in between “freedom” and “unfreedom,” as you say, there can, however be balance between things such as anarchy and complete government control.

In short, I agree with you that “balance” doesn’t always imply the direct center between two extreme viewpoints.


45 posted on 06/10/2009 9:36:00 AM PDT by Nils Bergeson
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To: dynachrome

Can’t say I recall anyone named “O’Bozo” on the ballot. Perhaps he/she was only on the ballot in certain states.


46 posted on 06/10/2009 9:36:00 AM PDT by Nils Bergeson
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To: TalonDJ

Perhaps I could rephrase: A Moderate is content to get a good solution.


47 posted on 06/10/2009 9:36:00 AM PDT by Nils Bergeson
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To: Nils Bergeson

I appreciate your distinction. Thank you for clarifying. I agree that moderation (which in the case of your post, appears to be related to Epicureanism) is an approach rather than a position. Centrism connotes an ideological position.


48 posted on 06/10/2009 10:03:53 AM PDT by oblomov (Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods. - Mencken)
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To: Vanders9
A moderate doesnt care for a “place in history”. Moderates are content to get a solution. They dont need personal agrandisement.

Neither are they leaders. They are crowd followers and politically moral relativists.

49 posted on 06/10/2009 10:45:10 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (I asked my broker what he's buying today. He replied: "Canned food and ammunition.")
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To: TalonDJ

Interesting you should bring old Adolf into the discussion. In 1928 the Nazis were a minor party of what was called the extreme right. In the elections of that year they got a derisory 3% of the vote. He got into power because after the wall street crash and the onset of the great depression, German political opinion polarised very rapidly. The “moderates”, who supported democracy, got squeezed out by the Nazis and the Communist extremists, who between them got nigh on 60% of the vote in the elections of 1932.

So who’s to blame then?


50 posted on 06/10/2009 1:11:41 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: TalonDJ

Interesting you should bring old Adolf into the discussion. In 1928 the Nazis were a minor party of what was called the extreme right. In the elections of that year they got a derisory 3% of the vote. He got into power because after the wall street crash and the onset of the great depression, German political opinion polarised very rapidly. The “moderates”, who supported democracy, got squeezed out by the Nazis and the Communist extremists, who between them got nigh on 60% of the vote in the elections of 1932.

So who’s to blame then?


51 posted on 06/10/2009 1:11:41 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: OB1kNOb

Not so. Washington wasn’t a gung-ho revolutionary republican. Lincoln was no rabid abolotionist. Jeff Davis believed secession was legal, but not that the South should secede. At the time all of them were regarded as moderates on the great issues of their day.

What does “politically moral relativist” mean? A cynic might explain it thusly. Certain political opinions (like gun control, pro-choice, national health service) have become thought of as “leftist”. Others, (such as anti-abortion, pro death penalty, free market) have become associated with the right-wing.

This has become so entrenched now that someone who holds an opinion on say, creationism, is by definition also expected to be in favor of, say, tighter immigration controls. Someone who thinks for themselves and refuses to buy into this, by say, believing in increased defense spending and also that we should reduce Carbon emissions, is accused of being “unprincipled”!

Political moral relativism - its just another excuse not to think.


52 posted on 06/10/2009 1:22:27 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9
The “moderates”, who supported democracy, got squeezed out by the Nazis and the Communist extremists, who between them got nigh on 60% of the vote in the elections of 1932.

Sooo... you are saying that Democracy is a compromise between Nazism and Communism? If those two are the extremes then Democracy would have to be in the middle. Except that Nazism and Communism are both forms of socialism. So those still wanting democracy would have been the extremist minority. Isn't it handy when you can just tag everything you disagree with as 'extreme'. Like lower taxes and less government. So extreeeeeeme. Why it must be one step from suicide bombings. Moderate is not a actual view point. It is simply a dislike of conflict and disagreement. You can be moderate between theocracy and despotism and your stances would look nothing like a 'moderate' in a time and place were the two parties were communism and Nazism. Hence it is not an actual political philosophy. It is simply a dislike of conflict or inability to defend a composite position. If you can't put together a comprehensive defense of a viewpoint then you can't defend against all comers.

Conservatism IS a balanced point of view between two ideals. Except that those ideas are personal liberty and the rule of law. We balance ourselves between the desire for unrestrained personal liberty and the needs of an peaceful society. We carefully define certain things as indispensable to liberty. Life is one of those. And this puts us in a position were we can not compromise on that position. If humans no longer have the right to be alive then there are no other liberties. On the other hand some issues are more open for compromise. Regulating drugs for one, or even pollution. Unfortunately on many issues we find the country is so far left that we have no choice but to push hard right. No conservative would want to return to the days of companies dumping radioactive waste into rivers with no legal consequence... but taxing carbon dioxide? Insanity. Sometimes you can't compromise.

German democrats were not promoting democracy to be seen as less extreme or to 'compromise' or avoid strident debate. The future of their country was on the line and they were advocating what they thought would fix it. They were not trying to be the fulcrum between flavors of Socialism.
53 posted on 06/10/2009 2:27:57 PM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Vanders9
Political moral relativism - its just another excuse not to think.

You just perfectly defined everyone I have ever met who called themselves a moderate on any given issue. It was always an excuse to not have a thought-out opinion.
54 posted on 06/10/2009 2:30:53 PM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: TalonDJ

No Im not saying that Democracy is between two “extremes”. As far as I am concerned, the political spectrum meets round the back. The extreme “left” is no better (and no different basically) from the extreme “right”.

I’m saying that moderation is not a political position. Its not centrism. It is an approach, a method, a way of doing things. That is why I agree absolutely with your last paragraph,


55 posted on 06/10/2009 2:59:55 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: TalonDJ

That is because the “moderates” you met were either centrists, or people whose moderation was actually indifference or apathy. As the original article clearly states, true moderates are not like that.


56 posted on 06/10/2009 3:01:29 PM PDT by Vanders9
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