Skip to comments.Obama's eligibility issue: Why the British Citizenship argument is a red herring
Posted on 06/27/2009 6:13:50 AM PDT by Polarik
In a recent press conference, Les Kinsolving of World Net Daily finally got to ask the question that we've all wanted to ask Obama, "Why won't you show us your real birth certificate?" Press Secretary Gibbs response was startling. He said that the Obama Administration had put a copy of it, one with a raised Seal, on the Internet. That response, more than any other mentioned to date, should have gotten people to their feet shouting, "NO, it's NOT a real birth certificate!" Or, at least, it's not the long-form original.
In effect, Obama, by way of his Press Secretary, just admitted to committing felony document fraud as what is posted on the Internet is a forgery, a false government identification document in violation of Federal statutes.
However, there is another school of thought, a group most notably headed by Leo Donofrio, who, upon hearing that question and Gibbs' reply, would have gotten to their feet shouting, "NO, it's Obama's British Citizenship, stupid! To Hell with the birth certificate." According to Donofrio, the fact that Obama committed felony document fraud is not only irrelevant, but is "without a doubt - a conspiracy theory of epic proportions.
"Nobody can deny that its a textbook conspiracy theory. Regardless of whether he has a genuine long form BC saying he was born in Hawaii, the concept that the COLB is a forgery would certainly concern a vast conspiracy to defraud the American people. Conspiracies do exist, but they have a very bad reputation and the media can spin them as kookery with ease."
After pursuing the document fraud arument for over a year, I have encountered many people who, at first glance, seem to be earnest-sounding individuals who also believe that Obama should not have been elected President. Ar first, they appear to be on the same side as the "Birthers," but, unlike those who want to see Obama's real, original birth certificate, they go out of their way to do everything in their poweer to dissuade anyone from wanting to see Obama's real, original birth certificate. If I've seen it once, I've seen it a thousand times. There is no other issue that bothers them more than the prospect of Obama having to release his actual birth certificate.
And, when yhey reach the point where it seems like the push to see it is actually gaining traction, they come out even harder than before, mercilessly cracking on Birthers as fools and wingnuts, which is exactly what Obama trolls have done for over a year now.
I submit to you, and I have the experience to make this statement, that Obama and his Campaign did not, by accident, admit that, when Obama was born, his father, Obama Sr., was a British citizen. NO way, Jose. Almost everything that Obama and his minions have done to date, has been deliberate and planned. That tidbit in Factcheck about his father's citizenship was not an "Oops" at all. It was a big, fat, smelly red herring, and the people who are pushing the British Citizenship argument to the exclusion of all other arguments -- particularly, the fake COLB -- are blowing smoke up your tailpipe.
Mr. Donofrio's lastest skreed is about Kinsolving's question and how "WND dropped the balla" with respect to Donofrio's pet theory. Leo insists that Kinsolving should have asked Gibbs the following question:
"During the election, then Senator Obama published a statement at his website which said that his birth status was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948. Can you please tell the American people how a natural born citizen of the United States can be governed at birth by British law?"
OK, for the last time, I'm going to break this issue down, as I see it for what it really is, so that everyone clearly understands the implications of pursuing the British citizenship route to challenging the "natural-born status" of Barack Obama, to the exclusion of all other actions taken.
To begin with, Leo Donofrio argues that what is on Obama's original birth certificate is irrelevant and that even hinting that the Internet COLB is bogus is a stupid conspiracy theory. According to the British citizen strategy, Obama admitted he was a dual citizen at birth and that eligibility advocates have simply questioned whether that makes him ineligible to be President under Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the US Constitution.
Stop right here. Do not go any further until I reread these previous declarations:
Obama's original birth certificate is irrelevant.
Obama admits he was a British citizen at birth.
Eligibility advocates SIMPLY questioned if he is Constitutionally eligible to be President.
In other words, this is tantamiunt to saying it's an academic exercize in Constituional Law. Removing OBama from office is not the isue at all. Donofrio has made that point clear. It's all about setting a legal precident for a centuries-old Constitutional question that has been sideskirted by every court since.
OK, O'll go along for the ride.
let's say the judge rules that the Framers of the Constitution intended Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the US Constitution to exclude dual citizenship. Does this mean that Obama knew he was ineligible? What Obama knew or did not know is irrelevant. The definition of NBC as it applied to dual citizenship at birth was never made. The precident did not exist. No harm. No foul.
Now what? There is no precident for what happens next. Does everything revert back to a previous date? What date?
None of the above. You know that the ruling will be appealed refardless of which way it goes. If it goes against the Plaintiff, you are not going to get it overturned by SCOTUS. You many not even get a hearing on it.
By the time it would go to SCOTUS, there's a better than even chance that Sotomayer will be sitting on the bench. You already know which way she's going to vote.
OK, I'll play along here and imagine what happens if it is upheld? What would SCOTUS do? They will say that Congress should have raised this issue during the cerification of the Electoral Count. The Court will then say it does not have the power to remove a sitting President - only Congress does. Then what? Obama sits on the sidelines and let Biden run things while Congress figures out what to do next?
Notic that the question of divided loyalties hasn't come up once in this discussion. Remember, THAT was the sole purpose of making someone who was born with dual citizenship ineligible to be President! If Obama had British citizenship at birth, he didn't have to swear allegiance to the Queen. Does it even make sense to talk about loyalties for a newborn, or now as an adult in already serving as President.
It does where Obama is concerned.
It should now come as no surprise to anyone that Obama has more loyalties to our enemies than he does to our allies. Obama has more loyalties to the Middle Eastern World than to the Western World. Obama has more loyalties to Dar al-Islam than to Dar al-Harb. Obama has more loyalties to his foreign investors than to his domestic supporters.
Yet what seemed like a big Constitutional crisis at first now seems to have fizzled out. Now, through all of these mashinations Obama gets a pass on ever having to show where he was born, when he was born, and to whom he was born.
What if Obama is actually the son of someone else? What if his father was born to Malcolm X or Frank Marshall Davis, as some theorize? Too bad, because you will never know that without seeing Obama's original birth certificate.
So, let's recap. Here are the two tenets of the British Citizenship makes Obama ineligible argument:
Obama's original birth certificate is irrelevant.
Obama admitted he was a British citizen at birth.
Obama is, therefore, a natual-born British citizen and is Constitutionally ineligible according to Article 2 Section 1.
If this court case should actually make it as far as the Supreme Court, and if it looks like he is going to lose the case, Obama will make a startling announcement!
Obama announces that the reason why he was withholding his original birth certificate is because he didn't want anyone to know that his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, and his father, Barack Hussein Obama Sr., WERE NEVER MARRIED!!!!
Game over, Donofrio!
Prior to 1983, British nationality was transmitted from the father through one generation only, and ONLY if the parents were married in accordance with English Law.
In other words, folks, Obama was not a British citizen at birth. Obama might have been born with no citizenship at all if he was born in Kenya. and not Hawaii.
However, since the people who are pushing this strategy so hard, to the exclusion of evey other strategy, have said that his birth certificate is irrelevant and would make no effort to obtain it, Obama walks, free and clear.
Oh, I'm sure that he'll get tons of sympathy from the vast majority (if not all) of his fan base because they don't believe that marriage is even necessary to have a child.
This is the reason why we must continue to push Obama to release, not only his long-form "vault" certificate, but also the very same Certification of Live Birth that he had claimed to have made and posted on the Internet.
We must also insist on seeing his passport records from his college years. There is a smelly fish rotting in the Congress as they promoted an affirmative action figure fraud by usurping the role of the Supreme court in interpreting the Constitution and by fiat fabricating a substitute amendment to the Constitution on the eligibility issue ... for John McCain!
This same fiat usurpation of our Constitutional contract has been used to cower the feckless Roberts court into acquiescing to the demands of the affimative action candidate subtley threatening race riots of the Odinga scale if he is not ushered into the office he demands without proof of Constitutional eligibility.
It is likely that we have a felon in the White HOuse, as per his forgery used to claim Constitutional eligibility.
We the people must have ALL the evidence on this lying sack of crap the democrats have foisted upon the world. If he used an Indonesian passport based upon claimed Indonesian citizenship to travel outside the US, he has shown divided loyalties in his adult life.
If he applied for college aid claiming to be an foregin student, he has committed fraud either to US or the college requirements if he was not a foreign student. Ron, one cannot be legitimately a foreign student and a U.S resident student simultaneously in a U.S. College or UNiversity.
There is a criminal liar in the White HOuse and all three branches of the federal governemnt have been complicit in posting this affirmative action criminal there!
We the people must demand this be made right or we will have been usurped as the actual sovereigns of a Constitutional Republic because the other party in the contract has abrogated the agreement byfiat appointment of an 'extra-constitutional' liar to head a branch of the government. We are witnessing a coup d'etat and have not a clue since the enemedia is covering for the liar-in-chief they worship as their ruler.
Only an obamanoid dingo would try to float this lie as the premise upon which he would refute Polarik’s essay: “In order to dodge the highly unlikely forgery charge brought in a court of law, all he would have to do is produce a real COLB.” The forgery was posted on the INternet, cited by Barry’s lawyers in legal cases, and vouched by the WH Press Secretary as what the state of Hawaii sent to Barry. You are a liar and an agent provacateur.
Note the amount in legal fees Obama is paying to keep his documents hidden.
Add this to an investigation: “Obama claims to have traveled to Pakistan in 1981 at age 20. At that time, Pakistan was on the U.S. “no travel” list. Thus, Obama likely didnt use a U.S. passport to travel there. He probably used a British or Indonesian passport. If Obama used a British passport, then he was born in Kenya which was a British colony at the time of his birth (then he would NOT be a natural born American citizen). If Obama used a Indonesian passport, then his citizenship was changed to Indonesian as a minor child and he thus lost natural born American citizenship in that way....... Is Obama lying and guilty of fraud?”
Unfortunately, those of us who know the truth are in the minority, and that allows ZERO, the Enemedia, and the Left to marginalize us as “rightwing extremist Republicans who watch FOXNEWS.”
We need to have something on a scale of the upcoming tea parties where we adopt the same strategies as ACORN and start “getting in the face” of the Enemedia and people in high places to wake others up and do something to stop this madness.
All we need is a foot in the door to push our way through. The BC has enough momentum to start incorporating the other things that ZERO is hiding.
Look, the Media and the Left lied their asses off knowing that there would be no repercussions. Although it is against my principles to lie, spreading disinformation to the enemy is perfectly acceptable to me.
A liar? A fraud? A traitor? A usurper? A foreign national?
If the shoes fit.
What they are is not a faction at all. The fact is that the ones pushing the British Citzenship issue are the same ones who do not want us to see the long-form BC, which is something that ALL Birthers want -- despite what Donofrio or Tounchen say.
see posts 14 & 15
Read my tagline.
I don’t care about 2012. I want the criminal forger ousted from office NOW.
He’s mentioned a long-debunked story when the alleged perp, Jay McKinnon OUTTED HIMSELF a year ago, July!
This guy sounds like a Nigerian scammer, even if he has a 100% rating on Ebay. What was he selling? Sports memorabilia?
He could show a heavily watermarked picture or a portion of the BC, but I don’t, for a moment, believe that this is legit.
Yes, and an SOB
when I went to ebay through your link — I could not find the listing.
Can you repost the link?
I work in the real world. You don't know what it's like to work in the real world. They demand....results!
Legally, I don’t care where he was born, either. I already know that it’s not Hawaii.
No, the divorce papers are genuine. It’s all the stuff written on them that’s fake.
It was up to $7,901.00
Correct, But that's not the ONLY mistake! The BIGGER one was posting the PHOTOS! Without those photos, I could not have proven conclusively that Obama posted a forged image.
Oh, I'm sure that Hawaii could produce a COLB that has the same infromation as the one in the photos, BUT, it would never look even close to what it is in those photos.
That was his THIRD mistake. Making another forgery to photograph from the same forged image he posted on his website.
If I had THAT COLB, I could make more money with it than the guy on Ebay.
1. There is NO filing No. on it.
2. I can't make out what (written in) date that is. At first glance it appears like says (sold) To many letters to say 2nd, and the year says 1954. I cannot make it out as 1964 even with a magnifying glass.
I can go online and fill out divorce papers but until they are filed with the court they are meaningless.
BPN do you have a copy of one showing a filing No.?
BULLSH*T! All I'm looking at are pieces of typed paper with forged signatures on it. What court in this country accepts forged signatures?
What court in this country accepts xeroxed copies of plain, typewritten documents without any evidenciary seals and official signatures ATTESTING TO THE AUTHENTICITY of this document? Both THEN AND NOW!
What court in this country conducts divorce proceedings WITHOUT A MARRIAGE LICENSE?
Plesase give it up, BP2. You're embarrassing yourself.