Posted on 07/02/2009 6:22:56 AM PDT by steve-b
Take a conservative stand in the blogosphere, cable television and the mainstream media and you can count on being attacked in the rudest, crudest, and foulest possible language, much of it unprintable in a daily newspaper, by zealots on the Left.
I ignore such stuff, knowing that Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" encourages the use of abusive, garbage language as a tool to isolate and discredit people and institutions. Perhaps that makes it easier to send those the commissars deem utterly evil or hopelessly ignorant to re-education camps, or worse.
But I never expected to hear such language from people on the Right.
Then, in a Beltway Confidential post Tuesday, I asked what is the difference between folks on the Right calling the eight Republican House members who voted for Obama-Waxman-Markey the "cap-and-traitors," and the infamous "General Betrayus" ad bought by the Left's Moveon.org in The New York Times....
My main point in raising the issue was not that the word choice itself was grammatically incorrect, however, but that it is evidence of a growing number of people on the Right succumbing to the temptation to use the same vile rhetorical weapon so often deployed by the Left....
Reagan steadfastly avoided using personal opprobrium as a substitute for facts and reason because he refused to demean himself or his cause by diving into the gutter with others who were all too eager to hurl themselves and others there.
It's not uncommon these days to hear suggestions that Reagan is no longer relevant. But his example of extending courtesy and respect to opponents -- including those who don't deserve it -- is relevant for all time because it's the right thing to do.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonexaminer.com ...
Oh Geez, a moral yo yo on the loose.
Yes. Let play nice like Dick and Jane. Because its working out so well for us. (/s)
The article said — My main point in raising the issue was not that the word choice itself was grammatically incorrect, however, but that it is evidence of a growing number of people on the Right succumbing to the temptation to use the same vile rhetorical weapon so often deployed by the Left....
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Ummmm..., I can attest to that, right here on Free Republic, with some posters responding to my posts... LOL...
You ask what I was saying? Well, glad to oblige...
While trying to talk some “sensibility” into some posters here, about the craziness of the idea of tanks surrounding the White House and evicting Obama, or about the other idea of some judge in the U.S. sending over a U.S. Marshall to the Oval Office to arrest Obama — you should hear what the responses are... :-)
I mean, “talking sense” and pointing out the method for getting rid of a President is Impeachment and Conviction — is enough to get you “tarred and feathered” right here on Free Republic... LOL...
So..., yes, I’ve sorta noticed the “slide to the left”... indeed...
Hey Mark could you at least close the bathroom door when you are in there pleasing yourself!!
Playing nice worked for Reagan. Playing nice does not mean abandoning principle nor does it demand a failure to strongly argue for and against policies.
The GOP needs to learn how to fight. How to spit. How to gouge eyes. How to kick the enemy below the belt. Until the GOP starts fighting like a wildcat, we have no hope.
And clown's like this play right into his hand
Sorry Mark, but if you get out of your little DC cocoon and deal with the public (ie, the vulgar mob), that is exactly how they communicate and think. In some of the lowest basest terms. Appealing to their “intellectual” won’t work because it just isn’t there.
Alinsky’s methods work for those on the right as well as on the left. Maybe better, Obama does not handle ridicule very well and to be laughed at would seriously unhinge him.
I’m not advocating foul language, but I do think that an activist on the right should bone up on Saul’s work.
I think we should ADOPT the Saul Alinsky playbook, not RESIST it.
What you said!!
You said — The GOP needs to learn how to fight. How to spit. How to gouge eyes. How to kick the enemy below the belt. Until the GOP starts fighting like a wildcat, we have no hope.
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Oh..., have no fear... they’re already learning how to do that to each other here, first... LOL...
I am sick and tired of the double standards
If the choice is tanks on the streets of American cities oppressing the people and tanks around the WH. Guess which I will choose in a heartbeat?
Ummm... let me guess... you choose the “banana republic”.... :-)
For that reason and as an instructive example, I would never refer to the New York Times as either "idiotic" or "misguided", when the truest appellation would be "traitorous".
I choose to remove Presidents who violate the Constitution on a regular basis, yes. Honduras did the right thing. 100% correct.
The Rats will Bully us till we fight back. And we must.
sw
“Playing nice worked for Reagan.”
Reagan played hardball and wasn’t afraid to call a spade a spade.
They deserve the names we call them because they are true. Certainly the author understands how awful they are and simply dividing their behaviour into categories of awfulness(traitor) is putting the specific to his general observation.
The irrational left was hysterically screeching about a Christian president who prayed and read the Bible who had us under a theocracy. Now we have a certifiable ecocracy taking shape, with the goal being not to repower America but to power America down because of our appetites and excesses(in their view). We really are in trouble here. It is not hysterical to call it what it is...
The right can do that as long as it is true. In my opinion of course.
You said — I choose to remove Presidents who violate the Constitution on a regular basis, yes.
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Sounds good to me... may I suggest a reading of the Constitution as to how that’s accomplished... LOL...
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And then you said — Honduras did the right thing. 100% correct.
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Oh yes..., I would agree that Honduras did the right thing, according to their Constitution....
Now..., let’s reference our Constitution as to what we’re supposed to do... LOL...
[... just what we need..., more immigrants from Honduras..., posting here... :-) ... ]
“I think we should ADOPT the Saul Alinsky playbook, not RESIST it.”
I agree. I took a few ideas from it when I ran for city controller. As a Republican in a city in which Dems outnumber Republicans by more than two to one, I lost by only 118 votes, and those were probably absentee ballots of Alzheimer patients in a nursing home. (A Dem city councilwoman is known for filling out absentee ballots for
demented residents of a nursing home. She even let it slip once that she was doing it. I heard her.)
We are effectively faced with a classic, long-term leftist insurgency. This isn't rocket science. You can't win a counterinsurgency with conventional tactics. Don't think the left doesn't know what they are doing.
They're just forcing their enemy (us) into using conventional tactics in the name of "fairness", and "propriety", while they figuratively gut our village elders in front of our eyes to terrorize us and shut us up.
We have to fight them with their own methods, but apply our own imagination and our own dirty tricks. We have to be willing to get our hands dirty.
I have no problem being "uncouth" in my dialog with liberals leftist radicals. It's the only language they understand.
So as long as Congress and the courts say its OK to trash the Constitution and enslave the people and throw you in an oven, I guess its A-OK!
Friggin' *bravo*!
Well said, and everyone of any moral fiber must realize that our own sense of decency is their greatest weapon.
Personally, I am overcoming my sense of fair play when it comes to this fifth column filth. No attack is out of bounds, no manipulation is off limits, no tool is left idle.
Unilaterally abiding by Marquis of Queensbury rules does us no good in this back-alley knife fight.
Exactly...
I don’t think that the courts have said it was okay to trash the Constitution. That’s something that you’re “imposing” (as an interpretation) on the action that the courts have taken to a legal matter — which, by the way, has never involved a birth certificate... (but other issues).
And also, in terms of the Obama birth certificate, it’s an interpretation that you’re “imposing” on the Congress, in that they certified the election (from the Electoral College) with even Cheney present and did not object to the issue.
There has been nothing said or done in terms of “trashing the Constitution”. It’s still there, the requirements are still there and nothing has been trashed with it.
And, *actually* Obama himself actually *certifies* in writing and legally speaking that he meets the qualifications of the Constitution in running for office. He certified that in writing with many Secretaries of States.
The *problem* here — is that there are people making accusations, but they have nothing of substance to back up their allegations.
NOW..., if they ever get those allegations *backed up* with solid evidence that will be certified by a court of law — then — you’ll see action taken in regards to what the Constitution says...
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In the meantime, I’ve posted on a “methodology” to get this out in the open and out there for people to see and be able to *verify*. That’s to get the various states to pass legislation that says a candidate must submit proof and the proper documentation that they are qualified for the office. Several states have moved on that legislation, at this point in time.
AND..., as soon as anyone comes up with some *proof* that is verified and accepted by a court of law — then — we’ll see some action. Until then..., I think all that is going to be accomplished is a lot of posting on Free Republic...
There's two old rules, 2,500 years old, that still hold true today and will beat Alinsky's 'rules' anytime.
Btw, Mark those quotes are from Sun Tzu's, 'The Art of War'. It's still studied at the Army War College today. Maybe YOU should read it too!
I finished reading 'the book' a while back and I'm now half way through the included 'Study Section'. Its 'almost' the best present I ever got. Especially considering 'these times'.
I didn’t mention anything about the BC nor do I even care at this point.
Our federal government has ignored the Constitution for so long, they don’t even recognize it anymore. Almost nothing they do is constitutional and we cannot expect them to ever abide by it.
The Census is going to be done by sampling and guesstimating to give the Democrats an edge. Its not going to be an accurate count. I doubt we ever see another actual election in this country, ACORN will probably be counting the votes in 2012.
But as long as the courts say nothing, I guess its OK?
No way, I think we are a few years from a real conflict in this country. I think with Iran and Honduras, Obama is letting know what he really thinks of the people and Constitutional rule.
You said — I didn’t mention anything about the BC nor do I even care at this point.
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But, I did, when I mentioned the tanks surrounding the White House and the U.S. Marshall walking into the Oval Office and arresting Obama while he’s in there.
That’s what comes out of the birth certificate threads... and that’s *precisely* the group of posters that I was talking about, in case anyone missed it...
If we come to the points where we need tanks around the WH, they should be there to be used.
Sorry, I don’t go for insurrection by tanks and military people...
I’ll stick to elections, ballots, laws, courts, representatives and the kind of political processes that the founding fathers put into place... :-)
The real problem is not the system that the founding fathers put into place, anyway — it’s the kinds of things that the voters are voting for. AND..., if they continue voting the way they’ve been voting, then sure..., it’s big trouble — but — the fact of the matter is that they will have done it with their own full choice in the matter... (even if it is a big problem...).
And if the voters are ignored? If the courts are ignored?
There have been some propositions in CA thrown out that were passed by voters.
I believe that the election losses have dispirited and demoralized people that would otherwise reject these sorts of tactics. I hope that they will reject them again in the future. I know that people believe the elecetion was the death knell for America but I also believe that this too shall pass.
You said — And if the voters are ignored? If the courts are ignored?
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Well, again..., talking specifically about the particular issue that brings out the kind of *rhetoric* that this article was talking about (and which I mentioned “experience” with here on Free Republic) — with the courts and the birth certificate issue (and that’s the one where you get all the “leftist-style-talk” that the article is talking about) — this issue was not something in which the voters got ignored.
Basically the voters got *outvoted* on the issue, which is why Obama won by about 10 million more votes than we had. That’s not getting ignored, but rather, that’s getting “outvoted”...
And in regards to the courts (and again on the issue that produces this kind of rhetoric that the article is talking about) — the courts did not ignore the issue — the issue was simply *never brought up*. The issue was other issues, other than the showing of a birth certificate.
So, in this particular instance, I can’t say that the voters were ignored and neither were the courts ignored. It simply wasn’t a decision that we wanted...
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And then you said — There have been some propositions in CA thrown out that were passed by voters.
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I’m sure that’s true, and just as true as there are propositions that get affirmed, too — just like the one about homosexuals and marriage... It goes both ways... The courts end up goring both sides, it seems.
BUT, in the end of all that is said and done, regarding courts and voting and so on — it all comes down to the mass of the public. If the “public” is not *in line* with what these views are (or what you want) — we’re simply not going to win. So, the key here is the *public* and not the courts or the politicians or the laws. It comes right down to the ordinary citizen, himself — and in that you have to have the “mass of the public” with you — or one will lose...
...
You seem to care more about the mechanisms the founders put in place than they did. Their main concern was for freedom and liberty. They also knew that the system would fail if people let it.
They were the radicals and extremists. Im positive there were folks like you “advising” them against their course of action and admonishing them for not following “accepted” protocol.
The “hardening” of “conservatives” that is taking place right now is only going to accelerate and it will culminate in action of one form or another. The founders of this nation wished them well, because they understood that freedom and liberty were far more precious than the lifeless mechanisms of government that some have come to worship.
so..
You go ahead and worship the mechanisms of government the founders set up. Im sure you will protect those mechanisms with your life one day, even against those who would fight for freedom against the people who corrupted that system into a form of slavery.
>>> “BUT, in the end of all that is said and done, regarding courts and voting and so on — it all comes down to the mass of the public. If the “public” is not *in line* with what these views are (or what you want) — we’re simply not going to win. So, the key here is the *public* and not the courts or the politicians or the laws. It comes right down to the ordinary citizen, himself — and in that you have to have the “mass of the public” with you — or one will lose...”
And thus is the reason for this...
“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
That is what you do when the divide becomes too wide...
“If we come to the points where we need tanks around the WH, they should be there to be used.”
If we come to the point where we need tanks around the WH I hope the guns are pointed in the right direction.
You said — That is what you do when the divide becomes too wide...
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Well, it was one thing to do that when the governing authority was several thousand miles away and was not resident in the land, but based in England.
However, it’s quite a totally different matter when that authority is mixed right in with you, in and amongst you, and in the very same “land” that you are currently living.
When “they were there” and “we were here” — I can see how that sort of thing worked. But, when “they are there” (a next door neighbor) and “we are here” in the next block over... it doesn’t quite work that way... LOL...
And..., in addition, it’s kinda hard to pull an entire state away from that governing authority, when most of the people in that state won’t agree to doing what you’re proposing on doing. And if a certain minority of people decided to attempt it in an armed revolt, well..., I can tell you the outcome of that one...
The only way that is possible that will work is to change the viewpoint of the mass of the public.
I’ll stick to elections, ballots, laws, courts, representatives and the kind of political processes that the founding fathers put into place...
1. The Founding Fathers used "insurrection" and military people (and would have used tanks if they'd had them) in order to put all that into place.
2. Force, to include tanks and military people, underlies and supports "elections, ballots, laws, courts, representatives and the kind of political processes that the founding fathers put into place."
We already had the Civil War, and the South lost... :-)
“BUT, in the end of all that is said and done, regarding courts and voting and so on — it all comes down to the mass of the public. If the “public” is not *in line* with what these views are (or what you want) — we’re simply not going to win. So, the key here is the *public* and not the courts or the politicians or the laws. It comes right down to the ordinary citizen, himself — and in that you have to have the “mass of the public” with you — or one will lose...”
And Conservatives don’t seem to be particularly competent at persuading the mass of the public to the conservative view.
I guess there really isnt that much to talk about with you.
You seem to believe that its our fate to suffer under a marxist hell when we cant convince half this nations population they are being complete idiots.
Like I said. The “conservatives” are hardening their outlook and becoming more serious and its just going to accelerate as the marxist revolutionaries in the fedgov continue to consolidate their power and build their infrastructure.
Personally, Im betting on the desire for people to be free. At least with a significant enough portion of the population of specific states to make something real happen.
I guess time is going to be the ultimate arbiter of our disagreement.
You said — And Conservatives don’t seem to be particularly competent at persuading the mass of the public to the conservative view.
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Well, there’s a real problem here, and I don’t think you can get around it...
To illustrate, there’s a conservative issue that I can use. Let’s take abortion. We’ve had 50 million kids killed by their parents. Now, that’s a real serious problems (and for several different reasons, actually). I come at it from the standpoint of what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob says about it. But, others from a different standpoint.
Now, the problem is that no matter how persuasive I want to be, if someone wants to kill their kids, I guess they’re just going to do it, no matter what I think. And if the mass of the public goes along with it (which they do...), then I’m not going to get the laws in the country to be any different.
So, the people of this country get the *best government* that they want to have. And it happens to be — right now — Obama.
And as I’ve said before, it seems to me that Obama is actually the “judgment of God” upon this nation for its many sins and its evil ways.
Thus, until people — repent — there’s not going to be too much “change” happening...
Lol...
And there had been many more civil wars throughout the history of human civilization, none of them ever seemed to preclude the next one from happening.
;-)
You gotta be a PR hack, you really just cant be this ignorant.
You said — I guess time is going to be the ultimate arbiter of our disagreement.
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Actually, I think it’s the “judgment of God” that is going to be the ultimate arbiter...
I’ve also posted the following... before...
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Now, God is a forgiving God, though, and if we *do listen* to an example of a previous President, this nation *may* find some grace from our Creator God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
BUT, without the requisite repentance, don’t expect the grace of God upon this nation (although as individuals, we do live in God’s grace on our personal lives, in accepting the salvation offered by Him, through faith in Jesus, the Messiah of Israel...)
To see *how far the U.S. has fallen* — from God and His righeousness..., just look at what Abraham Lincoln wrote...
The following is a “national repentence” thread.
Abraham Lincoln’s Word to the United States Today
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2232720/posts
[ —This is Lincoln’s original proclamation, with only *four words* changed in *one phrase* (only)... The rest is the exact same proclamation, except for the dates adjusted, and that’s all (and the note at the very bottom of the proclamation, the very last line...) — ]
A Proclamation.
Whereas, the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the Supreme Authority and just Government of Almighty God, in all the affairs of men and of nations, has, by a resolution, requested the President to designate and set apart a day for National prayer and humiliation.
And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions, in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon; and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord.
And, insomuch as we know that, by His divine law, nations like individuals are subjected to punishments and chastisements in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of economic and national collapse, which now desolates the land, may be but a punishment, inflicted upon us, for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole People? We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven. We have been preserved, these many years, in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us!
It behooves us then, to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.
Now, therefore, in compliance with the request, and fully concurring in the views of the Senate, I do, by this my proclamation, designate and set apart Thursday, the 30th. day of July, 2009, as a day of national humiliation, fasting and prayer. And I do hereby request all the People to abstain, on that day, from their ordinary secular pursuits, and to unite, at their several places of public worship and their respective homes, in keeping the day holy to the Lord, and devoted to the humble discharge of the religious duties proper to that solemn occasion.
All this being done, in sincerity and truth, let us then rest humbly in the hope authorized by the Divine teachings, that the united cry of the Nation will be heard on high, and answered with blessings, no less than the pardon of our national sins, and the restoration of our now divided and suffering Country, to its former happy condition of unity and peace.
In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
Done at the City of Washington, this 12th day of April, in the year of our Lord two thousand and nine, and of the Independence of the United States the two hundred and thirty second.
By the President: Abraham Lincoln
Sent by the Word of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
NOW..., as to whether the U.S. and its people *will do this* — that’s another question. I seriously doubt it — so I think the judgment of God will *stay in place* and the U.S. is going down...
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