Skip to comments.My One and Only Post on Birthers
Posted on 07/29/2009 9:46:00 AM PDT by fiscon1
I never really worried about the so called controversy of th birth of President Obama because I am no fan of conspiracy theories. In order to believe that President Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, you not only have to believe that a conspiracy is being created involving an entire state's bureaucratic apparatus, but you also have to believe that President Obama has been lying, or lied to, since he was a child. After all, he's maintained he was born in Hawaii since he was a kid. Either he was claiming this lie long before he wanted to be president, or his entire family lied to him about his place of birth.
(Excerpt) Read more at theeprovocateur.blogspot.com ...
You are an idiot. Before you wade into issues you should at least make an attempt to understand what the issue is. It’s not about Obama being born in Hawaii but rather is he a natural born citizen. By the way, welcome to Free Republic.
This blogger starts from an incorrect premise - it’s not necessary to assume a big conspiracy. Instead, all that’s needed is a family that is not too thrilled their an 18 year old daughter who has just given birth to their only grandchile being married to a whacky racist from Kenya in an era when mixed-race marriage was still a rarity. All it would have taken is a few entries on a form to give the newborn US citizenship, and no one at the state of HI ever gave it a second thought. The grandparents could probably see that a divorce was inevitable, and if the baby had Kenyan (British Colony) citizenship, it would give Obama Sr. an advantage over their daughter.
No proof, but just think about the family dynamics and it makes sense.
The major factor isn’t if he was born in Hawaii.
It is about whether he was a “Natural-Born Citizen”.
His putative father was not a citizen, and his minor mother could not legally pass on citizenship to him.
I am not a Natural-Born Citizen, as both of my parents were British Subjects, with ties to the Crown, at my birth.
His dad was NOT an American....end of story.
All the insane rantings of the left wing about George W. Bush and the Republican Party sure did hurt the Democrat Party. They were never able to recover from it. Now they will never recapture the White House, Congress, or Senate.
“You are an idiot.”
Well, us “idiots” believe that this whole thing is a comic side show, kinda like the “Cheney-Haliburton” conspiracies, or the entire TANG controversy, of the last 8 years.
This looks like the craziness that we laughed at over at KOS in the last 8 years.
Gang, we can beat this guy (Obama) in the arena of ideas. If we get sidetracked on this non-issue, then we lose focus for the debate over ideas and policies. Worse yet, the “other side” can (and will) point to this whole thing as a sure sign that we’re nuts, kinda like we did during the 8 years of the KOS BDS.
“His dad was NOT an American....end of story.”
Mom was. You point?
Actually, that is not so far-fetched. People do that all the time for the silliest of reasons. My family lied to me about the death of one of my uncles, and I didn't find out the truth until I ran into one of my cousins at my son's wedding. My uncle (an Annapolis grad) supposedly died of a burst appendix shortly before he was to take command of his first ship which was later sunk at Pearl Harbor. Old family story repeated time after time at family reunions.
Truth? My uncle died of colon cancer at Bethesda, MD. The family never spoke of the real reason because in the 1940s-1960s nobody ever wanted to admit that any relative succumbed to cancer.
There could be many reasons why his family would want to cover up the circumstances of Obama's birth. This was a seriously screwed up family.
As I mentioned on another thread, my mother actually tried to persuade me to fly back to CA to give birth to my oldest (leaving my husband) just so that she could claim to be a native Californian. Ostensibly this was so that she could claim the right to run for Maid of Cotton (had to be born in a cotton producing state) just in case she was pretty and would have wanted to do that! Geeeesh! My (otherwise) sane mother was off the deep end on this one.
Of course I said No, and not only because I had already paid the doctor to attend the birth! And yes, she placed birth announcements in every paper in every town where either my husband, or me, had ever lived!
That is what ambitious mothers did in 1960.
The press and even conservative pundits and Republican politicans are doing nothing but laughing about the “birther” theory and criticizing people for buying into it. What they fail to do is to refute it point-by-point.
I thought it was a kooky theory, too, at first. But, there’s much more to it than Obama’s place of birth, such as:
Does his father’s nationality affect his natural born status?
Does his stepfather’s adoption of him and his living in another country as a child affect his status?
And so many more questions.
Most of us aren’t legal scholars. But, when these questions arise, the press should answer them. Tell us. Cover the story point by point.
But, no, instead they’re demonizing anyone who even dares to talk about the story (for example, Dobbs).
The very first assertion you make is false! There need be no “conspiracy” involving state officials. They are legally bound NOT to release the birth certificate unless Obama or a close relative requests a copy.
Mom, by law, could not pass citizenship to him.
Do a little research before spouting.
Why won’t he release his long form? Or any form for that matter?
The second assertion you make is false! It is NOT the least bit improbable that Obama was lied to, and has been himself lying, about his birthplace, because, if he was not born in Hawaii, his mother had a substantial reason to lie, from the day of his birth, because: If Obama was born in Hawaii, he was a citizen; if he was not born in Hawaii, he has never been a citizen.
There’s no particular virtue in being a “provocateur” if all you are really doing is mouthing off uninformed nonsense that other people, if they have the patience, are “provoked” into correcting.
-- Obama lied on his application to the Illinois Bar Association and the photocopy is part of legal filings in court, where he swore that he had never been known by any name except Barack Obama ... he has used Barry Dunham, Barry Obama, and Barry Soetoro as so far discovered
-- Obama's Selective Service card is so badly forged that the type face doesn't even match
-- Obama filed on the Internet a supposed copy of his CoLB he claimed was sent from Hawaii ... it is a clear forgery, a false document which, when it appeared a legal case just might get to discovery, the Obama campaign goons scrubbed fromt he Internet
-- After posting a clear forgery of a supposed CoLB, Obama presented an exhibit to the same factcheck.org people who posted his first forgery, and has claimed that this is the real CoLB from Hawaii
-- The supposed birth announcement for barry from supposedly 1961 lists an address where witnesses have said no black man with a white wife and a mixed baby ever lived, a home occupied by a different family until just three years ago
-- The driver's License listed on the parking tickets from Cambridge Mass from when Barry was in Harvard reference a Social Security number which belonged to a man more than a hundred years old, long dead
-- Barack Obama has 39 different social security numbers and they are listed in a court filing in California
BTW, hello n00b.
“In order to believe that President Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii, you not only have to believe that a conspiracy is being created involving an entire state’s bureaucratic apparatus, but you also have to believe that President Obama has been lying, or lied to, since he was a child.”
First of all, how is it a ‘conspiracy by the entire state’s bureaucatic apparatus’? It’s a matter of privacy and anyone working in that ‘apparatus’ would be in deep trouble for divulging a person’s private information. The only thing the Hawaii government has to do is wait for the non-forthcoming request from one Barack Obama Jr.
HA! WE CAN BEAT THIS GUY ON IDEAS!!!
Wow, we only heard that about 10,000 times before the election!
Sorry you think this crazy, but I’d imagine you don’t much about the issue. Personally, I don’t think he was born in Kenya. I do believe he was probably born in Canada since the Dunhams lived in Seattle for several years before moving to Hawaii and would have known about the ‘free healthcare’ which would be perfect for a Kenyan student and unemployment 18 year old to need. A “free” birth.
Furthermore, there is still the question of what the founders intended by “Natural Born”. The intention was something to the effect of ‘born as subject to no other head of state” which rules out Obama as he was also a British subject for a few years until Kenya won it’s independance and then became (by his own admission) a dual citizen of Kenya until the age of 21.
You don’t get it either. All we want to see is some proof that he is a natural born citizen as required by the Constitution. Just upholding the Constitution of the United States of America. No more no less.
By the way why don’t you try to get a bank loan with no proof of ID?
So there is no possibility of any official or underling having seen a non-native original BC on file and keeping their mouth shut about it. There is no possibility that anyone in the records office was curious and looked at it before a year ago. Or if it was sealed up back then, nobody in the office mentioned it to anyone outside the office.
So nobody sneaked a peek before July08 when it became an issue? Nobody?
The point is what I just posted, but technically she was old enough to give him citizenship no matter where he was born. Anchor baby law didn’t take effect until 1986.
“Actually, that is not so far-fetched. People do that all the time for the silliest of reasons. “
Yeah, my children still don’t know about my *first* very short and childless marraige.
Sorry, I couldn’t let this ignorance stand. You made me register.
The mother doesn’t give citizenship to a child, the US constitution does. Specifically the 14th amendment. Why do you think Mexican mothers will jump the border to give her on our side? Instant citizenship for the newborn.
And that little detail would have never come up before the intrepid birthers figured it all out a year ago?
Hmmm. I was under the impression that if one is born on US soil, even if the parents are foreign, they are a US citizen?
Isn’t that what the whole “anchor baby” issue is about?
My personal belief is that he probably was born in Hawaii, but there might be another reason for him not to release the original records. For example, maybe it will open up a case to challenge his natural born status on other legal grounds, as some claim.
In any case, I agree with you that it’s not so far-fetched that a family would lie to a child. The press is wrong. Sometimes families lie to children to protect them. I remember when parents sometimes didn’t tell their adopted children they were adopted. And how many single or divorced parents have told not-so-true stories to their children about the other parent? If the Jerry Springer show is any indication, apparently some mothers themselves don’t even know the origins of their children.
I’m not saying Obama was lied to. I believe his mother would’ve told him if he was born in Kenya. But, parents and grandparents sometimes do hide information from children or tell them an “untrue” story for many different reasons.
How do you think that “being born in Hawaii” is separate from “he is a natural born citizen”?
Obama is a natural born citizen if he was born within the boundaries of Hawaii. Only if he was born someone else is there any question at all.
Glad you registered, but you are incorrect.
The anchor baby law wasn’t in effect until 1986.
Please note THE LAW THAT WAS IN EFFECT WHEN OBAMA WAS BORN.
4. December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986
If at the time of your birth both your parents were U.S. citizens and at least one had a prior residence in the United States, you automatically acquired U.S. citizenship with no conditions for retaining it.
If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. There are no conditions placed on retaining this type of citizenship. If your one U.S. citizen parent is your father and you were born outside of marriage, the same rules apply if your father legally legitimated you before your 21st birthday and you were unmarried at the time. If legitimization occurred after November 14, 1986, your father must have established paternity prior to your 18th birthday, either by acknowledgment or by court order, and must have stated in writing that he would support you financially until your 18th birthday.
Stanley Ann Dunham was not old enough to pass on citizenship to Barack because she had a baby with a non-US citizen and was under the age “five years” over the age of 16.
I do believe Obama is lying and so are many people who are trying to cover this up. Every record that can be tied to a birth certificate is not available. Also, he was a student in Indonesia during a time there was no dual citizenship. Therefore, if he were born in Hawaii, he would have still had to have renounced his citizenship.
The only thing the American people have to look at are a COLB which is a fraud and Obama’s grandmother’s word; and you wonder why everyone is suspicious.
Re-read what you just wrote. If you assume your third statement to be correct, then Obama could only be a citizen if he was born in Hawaii, in which case your first statement is incorrect.
If Obama was born in Hawaii, Obama is a natural-born citizen, by precedent of the Supreme Court. And if you want to ignore that precedent because you don't believe in anchor babies, you stated his mother was a citizen, and there is no doubt that the child of a citizen, born within the boundaries of this nation, is a natural born citizen.
So in fact, his place of birth IS the critical issue.
Why do you people bother to post an insult on an eligibilty thread, then pretend to give a damn what the Constitution says? Is playing gotcha on unresolved techincal definitions really worth pretending you give a damn?
Only one parent has to be a citizen in order for a child to be a citizen. Nobody argues that a child born within the nation’s boundaries to a mother who is a citizen would NOT be natural-born.
Further, Supreme Court precedent says that any child born in this country is a “natural-born citizen”, even if neither parent is a citizen, and even if both parents are here illegally. We can argue whether that is correct or not, but that is how the judiciary interprets the question now.
You know what, I think you are right on the born in the US law. I’m not sure how the immigration laws clash with the 14th amendment.
I guess it all boils down to Obama’s birth certificate.
Why would someone spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to prevent showing a birth certificate to a judge? I’m just stupified on that.
Natural-born citizenship is a function of birth. Other questions can be asked as to whether Obama could have ever officially and legally given up his citizenship, and if so, if he could get it back; but assuming he got it back, he’d still be “natural-born” if he was born in this country.
If he was born in the country, it makes no difference that his father wasn’t a citizen.
Those questioning his eligibility do not have a responsibility to disprove his status.
The use of the word “birther” is nothing more than an attempt to discredit those who are simply asking that the Constitutional Requirement that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen be affirmed.
If he proves his eligibility, the issue is resolved. As long as he does not, the issue remains unresolved unless someone is an Obama Sycophant with no interest in the Rule of Law.
Wasn't it somebody named Hillary Clinton who said that if you disagree with the Administration you are Patriotic?
It is also interesting that the same Media who left no stone unturned to dig up President Bush's College Transcripts and GPA have not found ANY information on Obama’s College records.
We don’t know yet ... unless you do and are baiting folks with your straw thingies.
I’m surprised someone here still believes that Obama doesn’t have an official short-form birth certificate from Hawaii.
I would think that after the events of the past week, we could at least have gotten past that one.
I THOUGHT the argument now was whether the original documents in the archive in Hawaii actually showed he was born in Kenya, not that the state of Hawaii had never issued a COLB for Obama. In order to believe there is no HI-issued COLB, you’d have to believe that multiple people in the HI government are lying, including the Republican Governor.
The issue is no longer whether the first image files circulating on the internet were valid copies of a legal COLB.
I do not have a conspiracy theory. I do not have anything but questions...from what I can see they are legitimate questions.
The questions arise from the actions of the President.
Why fight in court for something that is so simple?
If the long form BC is embarrassing and he doesn’t want it exposed he chose the wrong line of work
Sorry you wasted your time joining just to offer a partial truth which if left hanging is misleading. If a child is born to an American female, outside of American soil, in 1961 she had to meet certain specific factors in order to ‘convey to her child American citizenship.’ That’s not in the Constitution, it’s in the Congressionally drawn up Naturalization and citizenship laws.
The Democrats acted on this so nobody would dare question the Bamster’s eligibility.
Obama has a passport issued by the United States. That means the government beauracracy has decided he is a citizen. So it isn’t a matter of him having no proof of ID; the question is whether he was actually born in Hawaii, or if someone managed to falsify the records in Hawaii to make it look like he was born there.
I read a book about 15 years ago that taught (and encouraged) the reader on how to trace back family history to reveal family secrets that were hidden in the past. Unfortunately, I've forgotten the name and many of the details, but it was very interesting. Had a lot to do with researching genealogy and matching up birth dates, marriage dates, etc. Now, with the advent of DNA, I'll bet a lot of secrets will come tumbling out.
Could you link the sources for that?
This video makes the only thing sound absurd:
If Obama was born in Hawaii, Obama is a natural-born citizen, by precedent of the Supreme Court. And if you want to ignore that precedent because you don’t believe in anchor babies, you stated his mother was a citizen, and there is no doubt that the child of a citizen, born within the boundaries of this nation, is a natural born citizen.
Ummm Supreme court of what country has decided the natural born citizen issue?
Straw men. Although I will try to stay out of any other part of this debate such as forgeries. I think the question of conspiracy in HI is a legitimate question, who looked at the original on file before a year ago and how (if it’s more than nobody) they were kept silent about what they saw.
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