Skip to comments.Was Obama adopted by Indonesian Citizen Lolo Soetoro?
Posted on 08/01/2009 12:58:37 PM PDT by Askwhy5times
The evidence would indicate young Barack Hussein Obama was adopted by Indonesian citizen Lolo Soetoro after Soetoro and Obama's mother were married. The most convincing evidence is the Hawaii divorce papers filed in 1980 as Stanley Ann Soetoro vs. Lolo Soetoro. This document lists the couple as having two children. One is under the age of eighteen. That would be Maya Soetoro who was born in 1970. The other child is listed as over eighteen and in need of educational support. That would be Barry Soeroto (Barack Hussein Obama.) There are no other know children related to this marriage.
(Excerpt) Read more at bluegrasspundit.com ...
The Indonesian school card that you linked states that Obama was born in Hawaii.
“The Indonesian school card that you linked states that Obama was born in Hawaii.”
Yes it does. The post Does not address the Hawaii birth issue. I present evidence that Obama may have been adopted.
the pundit is incorrect in one important fact:
Regardless of whether he was adopted by an Indonesian,
his US citizenship would be intact until renounced
before a US Consul and he would have had to have been
age 18 in order to renounce. The State Dept would have
a copy of the Renunciation of US Citizenship on file.
Since he was a minor, it is impossible for him to have renounced at this time. The adoption is therefore meaningless as far as his US nationality is concerned.
I’m starting to think this is the issue Obama is hiding. If what I read is correct, when someone is adopted. Hawai’i seals their previous birth cert. If his BC is amended because of adoption by a citizen of another country, the best Obama can be is naturalized, and therefore ineligible.
This blog makes the same faulty assertion. Indonesia cannot
have removed O’s status as a US Citizen. Only the US Dept of State acting through its consular officials can do that.
And he would have had to have been 18 to voluntarily renounce. And the document would be in the files at the State Dept (where Hillary could no doubt cause it to come to light).
Q. Assuming the citizenship changed while he was a minor, would he have had to reclaim it when he turned 18, or could he have done it at his leisure?
This line of thinking leads to some interesting questions. Did he ever "reclaim" it? Did he ever renounce the Indonesian citizenship? Is there any information in the passport/travel files, or in his college applications, or his SSN application files, with relevant dates?
Absolutely correct. There are far too many people that think someone's US citizenship can be negated without due process. When in fact, it's a very complicated and detailed process to renounce your US citizenship, by design. Obama could have been adopted by Martians, and it wouldn't have any effect on his eligibility to be president.
Do you have evidence that Obama was adopted after he was over age 18 and then renounced his U.S. citizenship?
And could you cite the Congressional Legislation that states that the United States and all its citizens and inhabitants must comply with Indonesian law?
An interesting possibility. I’m much more convinced the whole “certifigate” issue is much more likely about some “secret” that Obama doesn’t want out than it is about hardcore proof that he’s not a natural born citizen.
Having been adopted by Soetoro could be it.
What kind of information would you expect to find in his U.S. Passport files?
“..only 42% of Republicans and 83% of Independents are sure Obama was born in the USA.”
How can they be so sure that 0bama was or was not born in the US when none of them have seen any valid documentation regarding 0’s true identity. Up to now, the American people are playing a guessing game.
Only a few politicians know the true story, but they won’t divulge it publicly. Besides, has there been ONE Congressman who has openly declared that he has seen Obama’s valid BC?
how and when did he change his name from Soetero to Obama after the divorce at which time he had his legally adopted name? Was it done legally in a court of laws, or just on a personal affidavit of some kind?
If you weren't so personally invested in this issue, you'd see that carrying your statement to it's logical conclusion provides exactly the motivation, for our Founders, and therfore enshrined in our Constitution, to avoid competing legal claims, due to citizenship, upon any President of the United States.
Would a birth certificate show the subsequent adoption, especially if that adoption took place in Indonesia?
As opposed to a random person’s blog, I will read what the U.S. Department of State says about renouncing of losing one’s U.S. citizenship.
And no where does it say that if a minor child is adopted, by a foreign national that he will lose his U.S. citizenship. And everything else can only be done by a person who is at least 18 years of age.
This is not a matter of where Resident (Pres_ent) Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., or Barry Soetoro, or Mr Michelle Robinson, or Sock-Puppet, supposedly the son of an out-of-control teenager and a Kenyan exchange student, physically was born. It is a matter of what nationality he was claiming at the time of his mother’s divorce from his stepfather. This SEEMS to indicate that he had adopted the Indonesian nationality, and there is no evidence or documentation that he has even adopted the United States as the country of his allegiance.
Now there is a claim that certain relatives of of Barack Hussein Obama II were present at his BIRTH in Kenya. OK, a child may have been born there, and that child may have been actually the genetic offspring of Barack Hussein Obama the first. This may or may not have been the identical person we now have as the occupant of the Oval Office. Perhaps Stanley Ann Dunham was NOT the birth mother of this individual, but took in and raised this child (because her own died at birth) and created the myth of the origin of the person raised in Hawaii.
I want to see some DNA evidence.
See my post above. There's nothing to reclaim, as he never lost his citizenship. It is virtually impossible for a minor, who's a US citizen, to somehow "lose" their citizenship, irrespective of who adopts them and what their nationality is.
Let me give you an example. Let's say there's a young boy who is Jewish and is born to two Jewish US citizens in Brooklyn. His father dies and he and his mother move to Israel where he is subsequently adopted by a nice Israeli man that his mother eventually marries. He is eligible for Israeli citizenship on two levels, as a "returning" Jew to Israel, and as the adopted son of an Israeli national and it's probable that his new parents would actually claim that citizenship for him, as would be their right as his legal guardians. But, through that entire process that young Jewish boy would never "lose" his US citizenship, and would never have to reclaim or declare his US citizenship at any time in the future, including when he turns 18.
And, as a clearly natural-born US citizen, he would be eligible for the office of the President. It's as simple as that.
Okay, but my position as well as the belief of 305,999,999 Americans is that Indonesian laws have no jurisdiction in the United States.
The provisions of the 1930 Hague Convention do not apply, since they are conditional on the state (in this case the U.S.A.) recognizing that a parent or stepparent can renounce a minor’s citizenship. As I said, there is no provision in American law that allows that.
“As opposed to a random persons blog, I will read what the U.S. Department of State says about renouncing of losing ones U.S. citizenship.
And no where does it say that if a minor child is adopted, by a foreign national that he will lose his U.S. citizenship. And everything else can only be done by a person who is at least 18 years of age.”
I haven’t made any claim about Obama’s citizenship. This issue is not necessarily Obama’s “loss of citizenship,” but his loss of “natural born” status. That is complicated because the founding fathers did not clearly spell out what they meant. I do not have the answer.
That is quite a theory, but I do not think it gets you into a courtroom.
So the argument is moot.
Still, it's the kind of thing people like to speculate about.
My own, entirely unsupported hunch, is that Obama's mom didn't give a fig for governments and their requirements and just said what she needed to to get them off her back.
Lolo may have done the same, i.e. said, "Yes, our child's Muslim" without doing anything about it, just to keep the authorities at a distance.
It isn't that simple. Is dual citizenship a problem? My understanding is that US citizens have to "forsake all others."
In any event, whether it is as simple as that or not, I feel that Barack and his supporters have hidden many facts about his past that should have been part of the vetting process before the election. The facts of his past are still of interest to me, and I don't think that his election changes my right to know them. The citizenship issue isn't the only thing I, and I believe many others, are concerned about. It is only one factor among many.
Far more is known about, for example, Sarah Palin, a "johhny-come-lately" in political terms, than our President. That should not remain a permanent state of affairs, natural born citizen or not.
What is that "Strong Evidence" that he went to Pakistan on an Indonesian Passport?
>Indonesia prohibits dual-citizenship.<
Just because Indonesia granted him citizenship of the country does not mean that he automatically lost his US citizenship, if he ever had it.
I don’t believe that Indonesia has the power to tell a US citizen to renege on his citizenship unless the country demands proof that his parent actually signed an official declaration that Hussein gave up his citizenship.
Ethnicity is irrelevant. What is really important - both parents are US citizens, so the boy is a natural born US citizen. The rest of your story is also irrelevant.
Obama is not a natural born citizen BECAUSE his father was not US citizen, not because he moved to Indonesia.
I don't know, but he's President. I want to look. Perhaps he traveled under the Soetero name. Actually, I'm more interested in the Occidental College and Harvard files. Who paid for his education? Did he get financial aid? Did he game the system in any way, using his Indonesian name or foreign status? Was he supported by unsavory or foreign interests? I just want to know he's on the up and up.
Other candidates for both parties have produced voluminous information in the past when asked. President Obama has sealed all he could.
True as far as it goes but to enter a madrass as BHO did and become a muslim he had or his parents had to renounce citizenship - according to a post I read back in Oct. FWIW.
>My understanding is that US citizens have to “forsake all others.”<
I also heard that the US accepts dual American/Israeli citizenship. How else can American Jews fight for Israel and not lose their US citizenship?
As did the entirety of the Electoral College, every member of the House and Senate, VP Cheney, and Chief Justice John Roberts.
They don't. Not, that is, unless you happen to be Commander In Chief, with many powers at your disposal at the stroke of a pen, held liable under the laws of both Indonesia and the United States.
Check the State Department pamphlet advising upon such individual dual citizenship matters, if you don't believe it.
But, then again, you've said you have an Embassy-issued birth certificate, and so you'd be well aware.
Playing dumb isn't going to cut it, not with me.
Reference: (Passport investigation) “key witness in passport fraud case fatally shot”
“FREE THE LONG FORM!”
That may well be, but I want to see more background. Our President has revealed less about himself than any major politician in recent memory. I think it is important for the electorate to be well informed. If there's no skeletons, open the closet, and then we'll just talk politics.
That's right. The best anyone can muster is hearsay, innuendo and what could loosely be described as circumstantial evidence. This is the problem. American law presumes the affirmative. The onus probandi lies with the plaintiff, not the defendant.
As an example, in a civil case regarding paternity, it's the plaintiff (who is presumably suing for support) that has to prove that the defendant is the father. There's is no burden placed on the defendant to prove he isn't the father.
Obama has the upper hand, insomuch as the document that he already posses and that has been publicly validated be state of Hawaii officials qualifies as prima fascia evidence of his birth in HI. The mountain that the plaintiff's would have to climb, would be enormous.
I am at the same time a Natural Born Citizen and a Dual Citizen.
People keep bringing up the issue of citizenship. I don’t think that is the main issue. Obama is a citizen unless he renounced his citizenship after the age of eighteen, but we don’t have any evidence ATM that he did. The question is how does an adoption and citizenship in a foreign country affect one’s natural born status? This is not 100% clear.
“Other candidates for both parties have produced voluminous information in the past when asked.” Done so voluntarily so as to not cause any controversy. Hell, if no docs exist, dan rather (not) just makes the stuff up. barry sotero is hiding all his records for a reason. He is spending a big pile of cash for lawyers to keep all this stuff from surfacing. Not just his birth cert., but for his school records and on and on. So logic dicates that whatever it is that he is hiding, it is very damaging. Hey nice going there DNC and your media. I guess to them, the ends justify the means to get their sock puppet in place.
I knew you couldn’t handle that one......0-rumpswab.
Will you still look up to Ogabe when he’s in jail? Send him fan mail and naked pictures of your hamster? What a maroon troll.
EHHHHHHHHHH.....INCORRECT. Care for door number three?
Please point out the law that states that one cannot be a Natural Born Citizen and while being a Dual Citizen.
In fact, not only am I Dual citizen but so is my wife, our daughter and my father in law.
Wife, daughter and Father in Law are natural born American citizens and Israeli citizens.
You can say it until you're blue in the face, and it still won't be true.
Cite the relevant statute, please. And, help me out by bolding or highlighting the specific, technical term-of-art from the Constitution, "natural-born citizen," being legally applied to your particular situation.
I know you can't, and you know you can't. But, you still keep saying what you know is not true, but fervently wish to be true.
Also, explain why there have been numerous proposals put forth, in both House and Senate, over the past five years, seeking to extend Presidential eligibility, purportedly only to children of military parents, born overseas, via Constitutional amendment.
According to you, this is entirely unnecessary. And yet, there it is. And it's verified in the State Department's own pamphlet on the matter.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.