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Trade War?
Economic Policy Journal ^ | September 12, 2009 | Robert Wenzel

Posted on 09/13/2009 10:22:08 AM PDT by Need4Truth

Is this the first step in what will become a full-fledged trade war?

The Obama administration will put steep import duties on Chinese passenger and light truck tires, responding to what the U.S. International Trade Commission determined to be a surge of Chinese tire exports.

The U.S. has announced a 35% import tariffs on tires from China, which would decline to 30% in the second year and 25% in the third.

At the risk of throwing a major wrench in global trade, Obama again reaches out to provide government muscle to prop up his union allies.

(Excerpt) Read more at economicpolicyjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: china; economy; obama
Now this on Bloomberg:

"China to Probe Alleged ‘Dumping’ of U.S. Auto, Chicken Products"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a5QHqHNJH_v8

1 posted on 09/13/2009 10:22:08 AM PDT by Need4Truth
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To: Need4Truth

COMMENCE THE TRADE WAR.


2 posted on 09/13/2009 10:22:42 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (PALIN / BECK 2012.)
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To: Need4Truth

OK Obama just don’t complain when China decides not to buy anymore US debt


3 posted on 09/13/2009 10:25:55 AM PDT by ari-freedom (Fiscal conservatism without social conservatism is dead.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Indeed... And the impact of this tariff will be the hurt jobs (retail tire sales, automotive service departments, etc.) vs. the few manufacturing jobs that will be helped.

This is what happens when we elect socialists to run the country.


4 posted on 09/13/2009 10:25:59 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds ("The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.")
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To: Need4Truth

Bring it on!!! lol

All they have to do is stop buying our treasuries, and our government is screwed!


5 posted on 09/13/2009 10:26:10 AM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I wonder how China will react to the trade war the Obama administration has started.

All China has to do is call in our debt and we are screwed.


6 posted on 09/13/2009 10:26:35 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: KoRn

If we quit buying Chinese goods then Wal-Mart goes out of business and the Chinese economy tanks. Europe cannot absorb the slack. It also puts China in a situation where their political situation will become rapidly destabilized and if that happens....well, let’s just say things get interesting really fast.


7 posted on 09/13/2009 10:29:06 AM PDT by misterrob (A society that burdens future generations with debt can not be considered moral or just)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

It’s not that simple.

This is what happens which RINO “free traders” sell America’s industrial might to a massive communist country intent on ending American power.

Throw out the RINOs. End imports from countries such as China. And start standing up for American jobs.

Republicans are every bit as much to blame, as Democrats, for what has happened. Perhaps even more so.

What’s ironic is, the process of firing Americans to export our best jobs - is what has changed the voter demographic and allowed socialists to seize power in America.

When Americans lose their good jobs to outsourcing, and end up working at some burger-flipping something or other - they stop being Reagan Democrats - and turn into angry Obama Democrats.

The problem is RINOS. And the problem is “free trade”.

BRING ON THE TRADE WAR.


8 posted on 09/13/2009 10:31:46 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (PALIN / BECK 2012.)
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To: misterrob

I will be VERY SURPRISED if the Chicoms do not use this opportunity to invade Taiwan.

How will the Japanese react?

Damn, if this does not remind me of the 1930s complete with Il Douche as our fascist leader and a world wide trade war brewing!


9 posted on 09/13/2009 10:33:58 AM PDT by darth
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To: misterrob

Oops, typo. I meant “Il Duce” instead of “Il Douche” is our leader. The guy really reminds me of Mussolini with his temper and arrogant narcissism.


10 posted on 09/13/2009 10:35:53 AM PDT by darth
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Didn’t you hear?

Americans in unions = bad.

Chinese Slave Owners = good.

Class warriors idealize other class warriors in different countries.

The quickest way to identify a class warrior is their proclamations against others as class warriors.

I think they regret Mommy and Daddy did not have the money to join the country club.


11 posted on 09/13/2009 10:38:26 AM PDT by Shermy (Space For Rent)
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To: KoRn

They would never do us that big of a favor.


12 posted on 09/13/2009 10:38:40 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

The one thing that has caused the erosion and abandonment of American jobs is labor unions. There are many other factos but this one is the standout extraordinaire.


13 posted on 09/13/2009 10:43:01 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

The one thing that has caused the erosion and abandonment of American jobs is labor unions. There are many other factos but this one is the standout extraordinaire.


14 posted on 09/13/2009 10:43:11 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: Shermy

I think there are only two possible explanations for so-called “free traders” fascination with outsourcing to China.

1) Abject greed.

2) Utter lack of awareness of just how big an existential threat, an industrial powerhouse China, poses to an ever-less industrial America.

(or both)


15 posted on 09/13/2009 10:44:55 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (PALIN / BECK 2012.)
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To: Ev Reeman

and next...the invasion of Taiwan. Just lovely.


16 posted on 09/13/2009 10:52:21 AM PDT by ari-freedom (Fiscal conservatism without social conservatism is dead.)
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To: Shermy
Americans in unions = bad.

worse than bad
17 posted on 09/13/2009 10:57:21 AM PDT by ari-freedom (Fiscal conservatism without social conservatism is dead.)
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To: ari-freedom

Yes.

I see the possibility of the following scenario.

1. China calls in our debt.

2. We cannot pay. This weakens our country even more economically and we are financially wiped out. We cannot get money from anywhere and other countries who are experiencing their own economic catastrophes will not help us or cannot help us.

3. In such a weakened US position, China then invades Taiwan giving no warning.


18 posted on 09/13/2009 10:58:45 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
Indeed... And the impact of this tariff will be the hurt jobs (retail tire sales, automotive service departments, etc.) vs. the few manufacturing jobs that will be helped.

Do the Chinese made tires cost less than the tires made in the U.S. by union members??? Even tho they cost far, far less to produce??? Nope...

And how many American have lost their jobs permanently just since Obama took over??? And you think it's bad that Americans will go back to work, even tho the majority will work for non union tire company suppliers???

19 posted on 09/13/2009 10:59:11 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: ari-freedom

Duncan Hunter 2012.

Because RINOs are the real problem.


20 posted on 09/13/2009 10:59:53 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (PALIN / BECK 2012.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

To add to what I said in my last post, because we are also mired in two wars right now in Iraq and especially in Afghanistan where there seems to be no end in sight for the moment, China could very well take this opportunity to call in our debt, refuse to help us with North Korea and also invade Taiwan. Under such a scenario, there is little or nothing we could do about it.


21 posted on 09/13/2009 11:06:14 AM PDT by Ev Reeman
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To: Ev Reeman

I see this one too. If we lose reserve currency status - it’ll happen.


22 posted on 09/13/2009 11:06:40 AM PDT by GOPJ (Civil disobedience "conservative style": Cell phone tape ACORN criminals- download to FOX.)
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To: Need4Truth
Obama and his fools are desperate to get money to support all their programs. They are going to tax the hell out of everything they can imagine that brings in revenue.

Think of the money the Chinese tax tariffs will rake in...all under the guise of protecting the American Workers.

sw

23 posted on 09/13/2009 11:06:58 AM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife (WE THE PEOPLE RULE)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Sorry, gotta disagree. Free trade helps everyone. Countless studies across the ideological spectrum prove this.

That said, free trade must deal with two main problems to be a net benefit to us:

(1) Free trade with nations that don’t have anything resembling bare minimum labor standards is problematic for the short and mid terms. This problem eventually fixes itself when labor costs invariably go up as the cheap labor market prospers. This is happening in China, but it is a SLOW process.

(2) Unions create artificially high labor costs in the US, making us uncompetitive. Those same unions garner govt (esp donk) protection, invariably leading to a trade war and possibly a hot war. Every loses when this happens. EVERYONE.


24 posted on 09/13/2009 11:08:07 AM PDT by piytar (Bussing in SEIU brownshirts to intimidate regular Americans is REAL FASCISM! NRA Lifetime Member)
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To: Ev Reeman

So we should continue on our current path, which will eventually lead to national ruin?... (or not so eventually, might only be a decade or so)

Seriously.

“Free trade” caused this mess. Every bit of it. Our factories are gone. Our skills are gone. Our jobs are gone. Reagan Democrats have abandoned the GOP, leading to a massive socialist takeover in America.

We’re increasingly broke. Industrially incapable. Unemployed. And losing all our useful technical skills.

Why do you suppose that is?... (asking rhetorically)

It’s not complicated: We sent them to China!

The GOP needs to become like Duncan Hunter. Aware of, and protective of, American STRENGTH.

Firing millions of Americans to spend what (used) to be our national wealth - to buy cheap crap from China, does not make America stronger.

Shut down imports.

Bring the factories back here.

Just do it. We have no other choice than to take a stand, which will not lead to inevitable eventual national collapse.

The current situation is leading just one way: toward strategic disaster.


25 posted on 09/13/2009 11:17:03 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (PALIN / BECK 2012.)
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To: Shermy
I think they regret Mommy and Daddy did not have the money to join the country club.

I agree with your assessment. I call those guys 'bowling alley night managers'. This came about after hearing a 'night manager' piss and moan about well paid union members who could come in his employers place of business, play a few games, drink some beer and not crush their budget.

It never occurred to him to get a better paying job so he too could blow a few bucks while having fun with his buddies.

Too easy to bitch about well paid union guys :^(

26 posted on 09/13/2009 11:18:03 AM PDT by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: ari-freedom
OK Obama just don’t complain when China decides not to buy anymore US debt If I could I would cut off his credit in a heartbeat.
27 posted on 09/13/2009 11:29:19 AM PDT by blueheron2 (Donate to Sarahpac)
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To: Iscool

Do the Chinese make safe tires? If they do it is the first decent product they have put out. I hate the thought of someone driving along side my family or friends on Chinese tires.

Another point is most people have no idea they are buying chinese tires. I pointed out some tires the other day an the guy driving the pickup had no idea he had bought imported tires.


28 posted on 09/13/2009 11:37:58 AM PDT by blueheron2 (Donate to Sarahpac)
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To: Need4Truth
Of all the things to raise tariff, why tires?

Will the US tire companies start producing low-end low-cost tires? Unlikely. The price of tires for US consumers will rise until the importers can find another cheap source of tires.

At the same time, the Chinese will retaliate by putting tariffs on some US exports, like agriculture products.

A lose-lose proposition for the US and China.

29 posted on 09/13/2009 11:40:13 AM PDT by Fishing-guy
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To: piytar

How long do you think it is going to take to assimilate one billion plus chinese into a world economy. By the time they get there we will be a third world nation.

Who paid for the studies you are refering to and do you have links?

There are only two ways to create wealth, dig it out of the ground or manufacture products.

Only a small percentage of American jobs are union.

The chinese are creating jobs and exports, we are exporting our tecnology and jobs i.e the engine that runs our economy.

I can’t believe anyone could call what is going on “free” trade.


30 posted on 09/13/2009 11:46:51 AM PDT by blueheron2 (Donate to Sarahpac)
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To: blueheron2

Actually, most modern wealth is created by the mind. I’m referring to the intellectual property and innovation embodied in products. I guess that can be considered part of manufacturing, but the “where it is assembled” is often disassociated with such wealth.

Frankly too lazy to cite sources for the studies, so take my word or not as you see fit. I stand by the statement in general, though.

As far as what we have going on not being free trade, I agree (and probably for similar reasons as you). We have a politicially distorted - by both US and Chinese govts - bastardization of free trade. Would a trade war be better, though? I tend to think not. We will almost certainly find out, though.


31 posted on 09/13/2009 12:10:43 PM PDT by piytar (Bussing in SEIU brownshirts to intimidate regular Americans is REAL FASCISM! NRA Lifetime Member)
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To: Ev Reeman
Trident subs.

Game, set, and match to the U.S.

Cheers!

32 posted on 09/13/2009 12:42:04 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I’m generally pro-free trade (granting what we have now doesn’t qualify). You make a strong argument, several really, to the contrary.

Let’s not forget, too, one of the main blocks to more manufacturing at home: Environuts who also own the donks. So the donks cannot improve mfg here, and they also must bow at the union altar, leaving “strategic disaster” as you aptly call it the inevitable outcome.


33 posted on 09/13/2009 12:43:31 PM PDT by piytar (Bussing in SEIU brownshirts to intimidate regular Americans is REAL FASCISM! NRA Lifetime Member)
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To: piytar; blueheron2
Actually, most modern wealth is created by the mind. I’m referring to the intellectual property and innovation embodied in products. I guess that can be considered part of manufacturing, but the “where it is assembled” is often disassociated with such wealth.

You two aren't even on the same playing field.

"High paying jobs for workers" .NE. "Modern wealth" (whatever *that* is).

What has happened is that the Ivy-League trained MBAs and their associates got greedy, and wanted to make more money than under the tried-and-true methods which supported the US worker and the pre-eminence of the US in the world.

In addition, they listened to the lies of Third-World-sympathizers in the business schools who convinced them that there is substantial wealth on the low-end-tail of the bell curve, and to sell to the Third World. Compounded by the demographic trends, and false promises of the Third Worlders engaged in mercantilism.

Net result: people at the top got rich off of wage aribtrage and artificially moving around money and debt, instead of investing money into things which can be used to create new wealth. See also mortgage-backed securities and the like; "dark pools" and the like; and recent developments in stock trading technologies.

Compounded by 20 years of out-of-control government spending (socialism on the installment plan) and the wheels are coming off the bus.

And the elites have the nerve to look surprised.

Cheers!

34 posted on 09/13/2009 12:49:07 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

Indeed this is a god move for the Hussein Plan For America - massive support for His union thugs and putting a lot of other people in retail out of work. Win-win situation...

Except for America...


35 posted on 09/13/2009 12:54:45 PM PDT by PIF
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To: grey_whiskers
Trident subs.
Game, set, and match to the U.S.

You actually think Obama would have the stones to pull the nuclear trigger? LOL. Tell another funny one.

36 posted on 09/13/2009 12:58:25 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (The way to destroy a countercultural movement is to have white people start liking it.)
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To: blueheron2

Dunlop tires are made in China (now) and quite a few of the former American brands...


37 posted on 09/13/2009 4:15:35 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: blueheron2
Do the Chinese make safe tires?

Chinese quality is all over the map. Some of their plants are world class. Others are definitely not.

I have owned some Chinese made Kumho (Korean parent company) tires that are as good as anything on the market IMHO.

There are Chinese made "no name" brands that are not very good.

38 posted on 09/13/2009 4:20:55 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: piytar

Dittoes.


39 posted on 09/13/2009 4:21:39 PM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds ("The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots.")
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To: grey_whiskers

“Trident subs.
Game, set, and match to the U.S.

Cheers!”

They got 3 boomers with JL-2s, each one carries 50 warheads. Do we really want to play this game?


40 posted on 09/13/2009 5:04:02 PM PDT by artaxerces
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To: Fishing-guy

I don’t know how the new stoopid Obamaloon tariff is worded, but the article says “Chinese tyres”.

If so, then the Chinese, will just stamp them Made in xxxxx, and continue to make and ship them. Then the tires will make a stop in the Republic of xxxxx and then on the the US.

Obama is a brain-dead nimrod. Now he has pissed off the biggest buyer of our debt, and started a trade war that won’t even work anyway.


41 posted on 09/13/2009 5:10:59 PM PDT by webschooner (First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win -- Mahatma Gandhi)
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To: artaxerces
Yes. I think that (for now) we can sink their boomers before they can launch, whereas they cannot even *find* ours.

Explicit treason excepted, of course.

Cheers!

42 posted on 09/13/2009 8:37:02 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: grey_whiskers
What has happened is that the Ivy-League trained MBAs and their associates got greedy, and wanted to make more money than under the tried-and-true methods which supported the US worker and the pre-eminence of the US in the world. In addition, they listened to the lies of Third-World-sympathizers in the business schools who convinced them that there is substantial wealth on the low-end-tail of the bell curve, and to sell to the Third World. Compounded by the demographic trends, and false promises of the Third Worlders engaged in mercantilism.

I think you have this backwards. The reason American companies are buying this stuff from abroad is pretty simple - companies in China (and other developing countries) are buying modern equipment from Western companies to make it, and are selling it for significantly lower prices because of cheaper land, labor and regulatory costs (and partly because of corner cutting). But even without corner cutting, they can make this stuff cheaper because everybody buys the manufacturing equipment from the same companies, and costs in China are a fraction of the costs here. Doesn't shipping cost a bundle? In a word, no. Before shipping costs crashed, someone shipping an entire refrigerated shipping container from Shanghai to New York had a per pound shipping cost of $0.10. This means a single tire used to cost $3-$4 to ship (if you choose to refrigerate it) - all the way from Shanghai to New York - and this was before the crash in shipping rates. This has nothing to do with MBA's - the people who first start distributing stateside foreign goods of unknown pedigree are typically small-time importers - gamblers by another name. And the average buyer (guy who makes decisions on what products to import from where) at a big box retailer like Wal Mart isn't an MBA - he's either a community college grad or a college dropout.

43 posted on 09/14/2009 4:45:14 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always)
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