Egyptians Say They Found Proof of Biblical Joseph

MEMRI/The Lid ^ | 9/25/09 | The Lid

[Shellybenoit]

Whether you believe that the biblical account of Joseph did happen (or something close to the biblical account), or if you didn't, this account of an Egyptian archeological find in a leading Egyptian Newspaper translated by MEMRI is very cool According to a report in the Egyptian daily Al-Ahram, by Wajih Al-Saqqar, archeologists have discovered ancient Egyptian coins bearing the name and image of the Biblical Joseph.

[Jet Jaguar]

pingworthy?

[Lily4Jesus]

Oh really?.....I already knew it.

FOR THE BIBLE TELL ME SO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[scripter]

Very interesting...

[Blogger]

But but but archaeology and the Bible aren’t compatible....<./s

[VietVet]

Pictures would have been nice.

If true, this finding pushes back the use of money close to 1000 years.

I wonder what the coins were made of?

VietVet

[Califreak]

Very cool.

The story of Joseph has always been my favorite part of the Bible.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

The Palestinians aren’t going to like this!

[TurtleUp]

http://www.resistnet.com/group/istandwithisrael/forum/topics/on-a-happier-note-than-today

On a Happier Note than Today: Coins Dating to Joseph Found in Egypt: MEMRIPosted by Lee Prince on September 24, 2009 at 8:31pm in I Stand With Israel !
Back to I Stand With Israel ! Discussions
.According to a report in the Egyptian daily Al-Ahram, by Wajih Al-Saqqar, archeologists have discovered ancient Egyptian coins bearing the name and image of the Biblical Joseph.

Following are excerpts from the article:(1)

“In an unprecedented find, a group of Egyptian researchers and archeologists has discovered a cache of coins from the time of the Pharaohs. Its importance lies in the fact that it provides decisive scientific evidence disproving the claim by some historians that the ancient Egyptians were unfamiliar with coins and conducted their trade through barter.

“The researchers discovered the coins when they sifted through thousands of small archeological artifacts stored in [the vaults of] the Museum of Egypt. [Initially] they took them for charms, but a thorough examination revealed that the coins bore the year in which they were minted and their value, or effigies of the pharaohs [who ruled] at the time of their minting. Some of the coins are from the time when Joseph lived in Egypt, and bear his name and portrait.

“There used to be a misconception that trade [in Ancient Egypt] was conducted through barter, and that Egyptian wheat, for example, was traded for other goods. But surprisingly, Koranic verses indicate clearly that coins were used in Egypt in the time of Joseph.

“Research team head Dr. Sa’id Muhammad Thabet said that during his archeological research on the Prophet Joseph, he had discovered in the vaults of the [Egyptian] Antiquities Authority and of the National Museum many charms from various eras before and after the period of Joseph, including one that bore his effigy as the minister of the treasury in the Egyptian pharaoh’s court…

“Dr. Sa’id Thabet added that he had examined the sarcophagi of many pharaohs in search of coins used as charms or ornaments, and that he had indeed found such ancient Egyptian coins.

“Studies... Have Revealed That What Most Archeologists Took For a Kind of Charm, and Others Took For an Ornament... is Actually a Coin”
“According to Dr. Thabet, his studies are based on publications about the Third Dynasty, one of which states that the Egyptian coin of the time was called a deben and was worth one-fourth of a gram of gold. This coin is mentioned in a letter by a man named Thot-Nehet, a royal inspector of the Nile bridges. In letters to his son, he mentioned leasing lands in return for deben-coins and agricultural produce.

“Other texts from the time of the Third Dynasty, the Sixth Dynasty and the Twelfth Dynasty mention a coin named shati or sat, whose value was equal to that of the deben. There is also a picture of an Egyptian market showing trade being conducted through barter, but one of the vendors puts out his hand, asking the buyer for a deben in return for the goods.

“Studies by Dr. Thabet’s team have revealed that what most archeologists took for a kind of charm, and others took for an ornament or adornment, is actually a coin. Several [facts led them to this conclusion]: first, [the fact that] many such coins have been found at various [archeological sites], and also [the fact that] they are round or oval in shape, and have two faces: one with an inscription, called the inscribed face, and one with an image, called the engraved face – just like the coins we use today.

“The archeological finding is also based on the fact that the inscribed face bore the name of Egypt, a date, and a value, while the engraved face bore the name and image of one of the ancient Egyptian pharaohs or gods, or else a symbol connected with these. Another telling fact is that the coins come in different sizes and are made of different materials, including ivory, precious stones, copper, silver, gold, etc.”

“500 of These Coins Were [Recently] Discovered in the Museum of Egypt – Where They Were [Originally] Classified as Charms and Stored Carelessly in Closed Boxes”
“The researcher also pointed out that the coins made of precious metals or stones usually had a hole in them, like a woman’s ornament, allowing them to be [worn] around the neck or on the chest. Some of them, which bore images of gods and texts from various prayers or incantations, were treasured belongings that were placed into the bindings of mummies or placed [on the chest, close to] the heart. The coins were scarab-shaped. What made the discovery possible was the fact that 500 of these coins were [recently] discovered in the Museum of Egypt, where they were [originally] classified as charms and stored carelessly in closed boxes.”

“One Coin... [Had] an Image of a Cow Symbolizing Pharaoh’s Dream about the Seven Fat Cows and Seven Lean Cows”
“The researcher identified coins from many different periods, including coins that bore special markings identifying them as being from the era of Joseph. Among these, there was one coin that had an inscription on it, and an image of a cow symbolizing Pharaoh’s dream about the seven fat cows and seven lean cows, and the seven green stalks of grain and seven dry stalks of grain. It was found that the inscriptions of this early period were usually simple, since writing was still in its early stages, and consequently there was difficulty in deciphering the writing on these coins. But the research team [managed to] translate [the writing on the coin] by comparing it to the earliest known hieroglyphic texts…

“Joseph’s name appears twice on this coin, written in hieroglyphs: once the original name, Joseph, and once his Egyptian name, Saba Sabani, which was given to him by Pharaoh when he became treasurer. There is also an image of Joseph, who was part of the Egyptian administration at the time.

“Dr. Sa’id Thabet called on Egypt’s Antiquities Council and on the Minister of Culture to intensify efforts in the fields of Ancient Egyptian history and archeology, and to [promote] the research of these coins that bear the name of Egyptian pharaohs and gods. This, he said, would enable the correction of prevalent misconceptions regarding the history of Ancient Egypt.”

Endnotes:
(1) Al-Ahram (Egypt), September 22, 2009.
(2) This is the Koranic name of Biblical Korah.

[StolarStorm]

Oh really?.....I already knew it.

FOR THE BIBLE TELL ME SO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, so let's just scrap all this worthless archeological research.

[thecodont]

Great story! I would love to see pictures. Perhaps this will make it into the Biblical Archaeology Review magazine?

[John Locke]

Thanks for the news. I am somewhat skeptical, though, for several reasons. First, the story of Joseph is in tyhe Koran, (sura Yusuf, unsurprisingly) and so Moslems have a vested interest in its truth, and the original report is from a religious source.

Second, there are several errors in the commentary. The deben is not an ornament or any such - it is an Egyptian standard of weight, mentioned in many contemporary texts. There is no evidence it was a coin also. In addition, the deben was sometimes shaped like a cow, as well as inscribed with a cow, representing the goddess Hathor. Since the goods most often weighed were agricultural produce, marking the weights with the goddess of fertility makes obvious sense. I remain of the opinion that Egypt had not invented coinage at that early date.

Finally, "Saba Sabani" isn't Egyptian, so it couldn't have been Joseph's name. It's Hausa.

[Biggirl]

Got to remember the Koran has copycated a LOT of stuff from the Bible. Yet the Bible is still number 1 best seller.

[Quix]

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.

I have long (many decades) expected proof of Joseph in Egypt to be uncovered.

Praise God!, my hunch was right.

[Marysecretary]

Exactly. I had no doubt about the authenticity of that story.

[Marysecretary]

Nah, of course it is. Lots of things are being uncovered now that prove the authenticity of the Bible. It’s an interesting time, isn’t it?

[Marysecretary]

It’s not worthless. It just proves the Bible is true.

[Joya]

Thanks.

Many of us may be needing a Joseph in our lives in the not too distant future.

[Uri’el-2012]

Thanks.

I expect to see a detailed article in
Biblical Archaeology Review Magazine

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[JesusBmyGod]

This is great. The Scriptures are never wrong, and over time archeology and science continue to discover things that prove it's veracity. I have no doubt that more treasures that unequivocally prove the Holy word to be 100% accurate and true will be found.

Thanks for the post.

[LibertyRocks]

Unfortunately, some people are like doubting Thomas. The more hard evidence and proof that is found to back up the historical accounts in the Bible, the less room the naysayers have to maneuver in their attempts to discredit it.

Then you also have to consider those who are NOT religious in anyway and who completely discredit the Bible as a work of pure fiction. It is these people who try to fill the minds of our children with doubt, and sometimes succeed. The more tangible proof we have, the more ammunition we have against those who say we believe in pure myths...

Surely, that is not a bad thing... If it were I do not think that the Lord would make it possible for people to find these clues and proofs.

What is always so fascinating to me is that many of these archaeologists have set out to find proof that the Bible was FALSE - and instead all they do is find more and more proof to shatter their illusions.

[SunkenCiv]

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[FourPeas]

From the MEMRI article:

"Koranic Verses Indicate Clearly That Coins Were Used in Egypt in the Time of Joseph"

Reading the excerpt from MEMRI, it does sound as if the scholarship is attempting to prove Koranic verses that claim coinage was used in Egypt in the time of Joseph. Colour me skeptical, too.

[djf]

Didn’t Heradotus mention first hand accounts of him?
I mean, for his time, he was pretty renowned.

[ApplegateRanch]

If you mean Herodotus, the Greek historian, he lived about 1,000 or so years later. His mentions would not have been “first hand”, but are interesting nonetheless.

[ChocChipCookie]

We have used the story of Joseph to explain to our kids why we are storing food. Great story with so many life lessons.

[Paine in the Neck]

Pictures would have been nice.

From this blog.

[curmudgeonII]

Were the coins dated 1300 B.C.?

[Califreak]

I like how he was able to overcome adversity, prosper, and help so many people and still have love and forgiveness in his heart for his rotten, no good brothers.

[VietVet]

Thank you.

These pictures strongly indicate that these are NOT coins, as the word is commonly used. The first coins were standardized and officially verified pieces of Metal, gold silver, electrum, copper/bronze, a.s.f. of a given weight, for example, a shekel, or for that matter, a deben. These are all different sizes, are of all different materials; no two are alike. Not a very good monitary model.

Might they have been used in commerce? Possibly, rather as the Old Norse used their silver arm rings as spare change, cutting off and weighting pieces to spend as needed.

Nor would I place a lot of weight on the fact that one of the jewels has the name of Joseph inscribed on it, since it is paired with a name that is not Egyptian. What is the date supposedly enscribed on this item? What other evidence on this item links it with the Biblical Joseph?
What is the archeological context and provinance of this item?

VietVet

[Pride_of_the_Bluegrass]

darn I posted this before I saw that you had posted same story. Apologies given

[metal321]

I was really excited to read this, but I like to see details and this story is definitely lacking. One detail that got the attention of my b.s. detector was where they talked about an inscription of the year. I have never heard of anything from ancient Egypt being inscribed with a year. That kind of timekeeping is a much more relatively recent phenomenon. It’s one of the reasons why there is still a great deal of debate between scholars about the dating of the dynasties of ancient Egypt. Because there are no written dates to go by. Also, nobody knows the precise pharaoh of Josephs time, so for the story to suggest that the coin could be dated directly to Joseph’s time is also bogus. If this story were true, this would be some of the most explosive news imaginable. A lot of scientists and skeptics would be eating they’re words. Really had me going for awhile. Just goes to show that it pays have a little bit of skepticism or at least a keen eye for details.

[Fedora]

The age of the coins mentioned in the article is from the wrong dynasty to be the Biblical Joseph.

[SunkenCiv]

Not only that:

The researcher also pointed out that the coins made of precious metals or stones usually had a hole in them... allowing them to be [worn] around the neck or on the chest... [and] were scarab-shaped.

IOW, the upper crust Egyptians were medallion men. ;') Joseph was in Egypt in the 12th Dynasty, and the Egyptian name this "researcher" gives for him isn't correct anyway.

[Shellybenoit]

no problem