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Rasmussen: America to Congress--> Don't Fine Us For Not Buying Health Insurance
Rasmussen/ The Lid ^ | 10/7/09 | The Lid

Posted on 10/07/2009 8:14:26 AM PDT by Shellybenoit

American Voters believe in the US Constitution, even if the liberals in Congress act as if they never read it. The Obamacare bill working its way through the U.S. Senate includes a provision that requires all Americans to either buy health insurance or pay a $750 annual penalty. From their point of view it makes sense, because by enrolling relatively healthy younger people who might not usually purchase insurance in the plan, it helps to pay for the older people who generally need more services from health insurance.

Of course there is absolutely NOTHING in the constitution giving the federal government the power to require Americans to buy anything. The latest Rasmussen poll reports that most Americans agree with the constitution. 55% Oppose Penalty for Not Buying Health Insurance Just 32% of voters think young and healthy Americans should be forced to purchase health insurance or else pay a penalty. Fourteen percent (14%) are not sure.

Sixty-one percent (61%) of men oppose the enforced health insurance proposal, compared to 50% of women. African-American voters are nearly twice as likely as whites to support it.

(Excerpt) Read more at yidwithlid.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Health/Medicine; Politics
KEYWORDS: baucusbill; coercion; healthcare; obama; powertopunish; steveisrael; theanointedones

1 posted on 10/07/2009 8:14:26 AM PDT by Shellybenoit
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To: Shellybenoit

Keep calling and faxing.


2 posted on 10/07/2009 8:15:38 AM PDT by Frantzie (Do we want ACORN running America's health care?)
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To: Shellybenoit
Of course there is absolutely NOTHING in the constitution giving the federal government the power to require Americans to buy anything.

No, but they can pass Constitutional muster by simply increasing everyone's income taxes by $750, then giving a $750 tax credit to those who have health insurance.

The bastards.

3 posted on 10/07/2009 8:17:35 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Joe Wilson speaks for me.)
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To: Shellybenoit

This just does not make sense. We should not have people be forced to pay health insurance. However, if a person has a medical problem, they pay for the whole bill out of pocket. Add medical bills to the college loans that cannot be written off a bankrupscy and this will be PERFECT!!! I found a solution in one second. Let people take the risk...it is the American Way!!!!


4 posted on 10/07/2009 8:17:57 AM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: Shellybenoit
The scary part of this is that it’s only 55% opposed to the taxes or fines. And I would bet that less than half of those opposed take that position on constitutional grounds.
wrote:
No, but they can pass Constitutional muster by simply increasing everyone's income taxes by $750, then giving a $750 tax credit to those who have health insurance.

Is that how this is going to work? I don’t want to spam every thread, but would you please look at my post about this alleged “excise tax” in the Baucus bill.


From the desk of
cc2k:

5 posted on 10/07/2009 8:22:43 AM PDT by cc2k (Are you better off today than you were $4,000,000,000,000 ago?)
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To: Shellybenoit

They are going to pass something, and Pelosi says it will have the “public option”. Fines and taxes and fees are going to be in that bill. Obama will sign whatever they send him. The media will treat it like it was the end of WW2.


6 posted on 10/07/2009 8:24:32 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: Yo-Yo
Ooops. My post #5 was supposed to include you.
7 posted on 10/07/2009 8:24:52 AM PDT by cc2k (Are you better off today than you were $4,000,000,000,000 ago?)
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To: napscoordinator
"Let people take the risk...it is the American Way!!!!

No Health Insurance Policy?

No Cash?

No Service!!!!

Ye--Haaa..... We're all gonna Die Anyway!

8 posted on 10/07/2009 8:24:54 AM PDT by gitmogrunt (The stupidity of American Liberals never ceases to amaze me.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: cc2k

I’m not saying that’s how the bills are currently written. I’m just saying that the tax/tax credit scheme is how they can respond to a Constitutional challenge at some future point.


10 posted on 10/07/2009 8:28:00 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Joe Wilson speaks for me.)
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To: GeronL
Obama will sign whatever they send him. The media will treat it like it was the end of WW2.

If they ram this down our throats, it won't be the "end of WWII", will be the start of CWII.

11 posted on 10/07/2009 8:30:29 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (America does not need to be organized: it needs to be liberated.)
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To: Shellybenoit
Those who favor it are part of the great percentage of the population who are ignorant of their rights under the Constitution.

They need to learn that the same government force that can be used to "take" from some to give to them can and, at some time, will be used against them and their freedom as individuals.

Individuals who have become enlightened about their Creator-endowed, therefore unalienable right to be free of such government-forced purchases will oppose such a blatant violation of the U. S. Constitution's limitations on government. As Jefferson said, that Constitution is intended to "bind them down by the chains of the Constitution."

These percentages would change dramatically if that message was understood by citizens.

12 posted on 10/07/2009 8:32:42 AM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: Shellybenoit

The Constitution did not intend to enable the representatives of the people to substitute their will to that of their constituents.

Alexander Hamilton


13 posted on 10/07/2009 8:34:43 AM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Yo-Yo
What cannot be done directly cannot be done indirectly.Its still punative. ( As well,expropriation is not a power to compel action of a citizen, it is a taking power.) This is an interesting issue. The government says: We order you to buy 10 pounds of toatoes a week, or else we will tax you on your income at 80%." The policy is in place because the tomato industry needs our support, and besides, the president says tomatoes are good for you. We have a tomato president , and the spin off money will help NASA, and ACORN funding." SO YOU WILL BUY TOMATOES, OR ELSE? It just so happens that the majority of Americans are allergic to tomatoes. (And the Obama Junta can stick them up their elitist asses as far as their reach aroud can do it.) Like many,, I will emmigrate before the government "makes" me buy health insurance or anything else. The constitutional basis for compelling that action does not exist.And if there is no civil disobedience on the point, this place becomes a banana republic, hardly worthy of living in any more. Either way, its win/win. I will disobey along with everyone else, or if no one disobeys, I will move along to another country, as did my ancestors when they had to.My family will not coexist with tyranny of this sort. Its a slippery slope down which I have no intention of living.
14 posted on 10/07/2009 8:35:16 AM PDT by Candor7 (The effective weapons against Fascism are ridicule, derision, and truth (Member NRA)
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To: Shellybenoit

I have health insurance and I live in Massachusetts where they fine you for not having it. I just got a letter from Massachusetts saying that they were fining me $913 for not having health insurance. Not only do I have it, but I never needed to use it during the past year so shouldn’t I be getting a gold star? The system does not work in Massachusetts. It is a complete and utter failure.


15 posted on 10/07/2009 8:35:21 AM PDT by Boardwalk
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To: andy58-in-nh

I tend to doubt it. Most of this doesn’t happen until after 2012, so where is the fury going to be felt? He’ll already either be re-elected or not by the time anyone starts feeling the real pinch. I doubt the most extreme parts will happen until after 2016.

Then the GOP will vow to fix the government system and make it more efficient instead of abolishing it and the Democrats will scream racism and accuse the GOP of wanting to take peoples healthcare away.

And I expect in 2012 and 2016 that Soros and the open primaries are going to make it very tough for the GOP to nominate anything but a RINO.

I could be wrong, but I think people are pretty lazy. I hope I’m just in a bad mood right now.


16 posted on 10/07/2009 8:36:26 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: Shellybenoit

wonder how they will square this with today’s sham poll that support from Obamacare has leapt from the grave?


17 posted on 10/07/2009 8:43:26 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: GeronL
Most of this doesn’t happen until after 2012, so where is the fury going to be felt?

We need to get out the word that although the programs do not take effect until 2013, elements of the bill require our financial institutes to open and share your information with the IRS...and even allow them to TAKE funds from you if you are fined

That will not take effect in 2013...that will take effect Jan 01, 2010...or July 01, 2010 if it takes longer to ram this bill through.

That better damn well wake up a large, large group of those still sleeping or lazy.

18 posted on 10/07/2009 8:45:23 AM PDT by IrishPennant (Then join hand in hand, brave Americans all! By uniting we stand, by dividing we fall.)
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To: Baynative
Baynative wrote:
The extension of the Baucus proposal calls for up to a $25,000 fine imposed by the IRS and/or possibly jail if convicted.

... more proof that the democrats are not thinking about Health or Care. It is hard to believe that America has enough fools to remain supportive of this garbage.

The fine and penalties were part of the original “Chairman’s Mark” of the “America’s Healthy Future Act.” Actually, the penalties themselves weren’t in there, but those are the standard enforcement measures for violating income tax laws.

But it was removed in the Committee negotiations by an amendment. The current version, Text of the America's Healthy Future Act as Amended, as modified by the America’s Healthy Future Act Technical Corrections. They added this to the bottom of page 35:


Non-compliance with the individual responsibility to have health coverage shall incur no criminal penalty; and neither civil penalty nor interest shall accrue for failure to pay such assessment in a timely manner. Collection shall be limited to withholding of federal payments due.

That amendment sailed through without much opposition. Even the Dems on the committee thought the penalties were excessive.


From the desk of
cc2k:

19 posted on 10/07/2009 8:51:22 AM PDT by cc2k (Are you better off today than you were $4,000,000,000,000 ago?)
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To: GeronL
I think you underestimate the anger that people are feeling right now toward both parties, and if you think people are "lazy", I'd suggest go back and look at the video of the march on Washington last month. It ought to make you feel better, at least for the moment.

People are fed up for a reason, and they are going to get even angrier when it becomes apparent that there will be no "greet shoots" economic recovery, that they have been lied to by everyone involved about the seriously compromised nature of our financial institutions, and that a great deal of pain lies ahead.

Furthermore, there is no way that our government will be able to justify a multi-trillion dollar spending increase and its accompanying massive tax increases in the teeth of the economic storm gathering on our horizon.

20 posted on 10/07/2009 8:51:57 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (America does not need to be organized: it needs to be liberated.)
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To: Candor7
What cannot be done directly cannot be done indirectly.Its still punative.

Bull. The Feds do things indirectly all the time. How did the Federal Government set a national 55 mph speed limit during the Peanut years? By witholding Federal Highway dollars to any state without a 55 mph limit.

The Feds could easily up all the tax brackets by $750, and nobody would "know" why they did. the Feds offer tax credits all the time for things like electric vehicles and solar panels, so they can easily add a tax credit for health insurance.

I'm not arguing it's RIGHT, I'm just arguing that it's POSSIBLE.

21 posted on 10/07/2009 8:55:36 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (Joe Wilson speaks for me.)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: IrishPennant

We can hope. I definitely would think it’d be a good idea to hold neighborhood rallies, BBQ’s maybe, to make sure everyone you know knows about this.


23 posted on 10/07/2009 9:04:36 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: Yo-Yo
I agree with you exactly. But we accept the little punitive compellig devices used by the Feds , (they can compel for reasons of public safety, such as the power of quarantine etc., FEMA and all that.) But this is a a substantial compelling where citizens wealth is to be redistributed to an inaccurately predefined class of do with outs, based on a concept of "historical social justice."This puts the issue ito a whole different ball park, IMHO.

And we would be remiss to take it laying down.

I for one have no intention with commplying to this compelling directive.I will pay no fine, even if directed to do so at the cost of my own freedom, by a court of law. (I will be living in another country by then anyway.)There are millions of us who will do the same, going on vacation never to return.This will be a surprise discovery of the Obama Junta, if this bill passes with punitive provisions.

24 posted on 10/07/2009 9:05:09 AM PDT by Candor7 (The effective weapons against Fascism are ridicule, derision, and truth (Member NRA)
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To: Shellybenoit

Is it true they want to be able to jail people for not having health insurance? If they don’t pay the fine?


25 posted on 10/07/2009 9:07:33 AM PDT by GOPJ (MSM BIAS: the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell)
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To: Baynative
Baynative wrote:
The key indicator, the catch all phrase that has to be watched for in all clauses of the proposed plan is: "Government Approved".

That is where they are setting the stage to be able to disqualify any company, any policy, or any choice a private citizen may make on their own behalf.

You are correct. But, there are several terms to watch out for in any proposed bill:

There are probably other terms as well. Not every use of these words in legislation is necessarily evil, but a lot of evil things use these terms.


From the desk of
cc2k:

26 posted on 10/07/2009 9:07:46 AM PDT by cc2k (Are you better off today than you were $4,000,000,000,000 ago?)
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To: Shellybenoit

bump


27 posted on 10/07/2009 9:09:05 AM PDT by VOA
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To: GeronL

I put the word out everywhere I go. Let’s hope the movement to publish the bill to the public before voting picks up steam.


28 posted on 10/07/2009 9:10:59 AM PDT by IrishPennant (Then join hand in hand, brave Americans all! By uniting we stand, by dividing we fall.)
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To: Shellybenoit

I wonder if they do a poll on young people for this..


29 posted on 10/07/2009 9:13:35 AM PDT by JSDude1 (www.wethepeopleindiana.org (Tea Party Member-Proud), www.travishankins.com (R- IN 09 2010!))
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To: Candor7

Well here’s two; I hope out of the millions I get you for a cell mate.


30 posted on 10/07/2009 9:26:09 AM PDT by JSDude1 (www.wethepeopleindiana.org (Tea Party Member-Proud), www.travishankins.com (R- IN 09 2010!))
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To: JSDude1

Deal.


31 posted on 10/07/2009 9:43:03 AM PDT by Candor7 (The effective weapons against Fascism are ridicule, derision, and truth (Member NRA)
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To: Shellybenoit

It’s beyond ridiculous! People who can’t afford health insurance, but aren’t in poverty, will be fined or jailed and the fine will taken directly out of their bank accounts by the government. It’s truly unbelievable.


32 posted on 10/07/2009 9:47:01 AM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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