Posted on 10/19/2009 9:24:35 AM PDT by pissant
Everyone knows that in America we cannot honestly convict a person for a crime as long as there is a ‘reasonable doubt’ that they are innocent. It is a facet of our system of jurisprudence that is unique to America and was born out of repulsion for past tyrannies.
In spite of living in a land that thinks positive thinking is the only kind of thought that is PC legal, doubt can be and always will be a good thing. It is not only what can free the innocent but it can also keep us from falling headlong to our own demise.
Unfortunately today we live in a fast paced world where sometimes we are willing to accept applause as the proof that something is true or worthy.
‘Everybody’s doing it’ or ‘all that is hot’ become substitutes for the truth. A crowd chanting ‘string em up’ can hardly be expected to pause and wait for a court of law to decide a person’s guilt or innocence. Certainly no one in a lynch mob would dare ask the mob to pause and listen to this verse from the Bible. “Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment.” (Ex 23:2)
Reasonable doubt works fairly well in the courtroom and it is a pretty good tool when applied to practical politics.
The reasonable doubt about a candidate is one of the reasons we accept the vetting or investigation of a candidates past before we allow them a position of authority. Policemen, firemen, officials on any level even home owners are vetted to assure us that we are dealing with someone who is on the level.
It is this common practice that serves to protect us and provide at least some small measure of assurance that people who want to be in positions of authority are who they say they are. Having said that can we continue to mock the ‘birthers’ as they are called who want to see both Barack Obama’s birth certificate and another fifteen or so documents about his past that remain locked up like the gold in Fort Knox?
Is chanting Obama’s name in a crowd the new kind of vetting in America?
It isn’t a childish thing on the level of ‘show and tell’ it is rather a serious thing on the level of ‘what have you got to hide.” It is an insulting thing on the level of ‘what’s good for the goose (John Q. Public) is not good for the gander. (Barack Obama)
It is Obama’s unwillingness to reveal the documents that is fueling the fire and producing an even greater sense of urgency. It is what is producing more lawsuits daily and more doubters exponentially. If it keeps up like this even the main stream media will not be able to suppress the emerging backlash.
It is not a mere lack of courtesy or ignoring strict adherence to protocol that cause some to liken the meteoric rise of a virtual unknown (Obama) to that of say Hitler, Mao or Mussolini, it is doubt based on civilizations past mistakes. This healthy doubt could have saved countless lives in our past history had more people been willing to act upon it. Kudos to the birthers for being willing to endure the insults the rest of us don’t want any part of.
Is it mean spirited to say that justices have been spineless, media has been dishonest and attorneys general have been lax in Obama’s vetting? Take a careful look at the names and descriptions that are being laid on the birthers before you answer because you will see that you have no answer.
Only recently another great doubt has been put on the American people from Kenya. An article in the Sunday Standard newspaper in Kenya dated June 27, 2004 is titled “Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate.” The archived copy of the article was apparently pulled from the paper’s files but a cached copy can still be found through the website called Way Back Machine. More doubt!
This President may have been able to circumvent Constitutional law as it pertains to the ‘natural born citizen’ clause but he will find it harder to circumvent the common law of the people known as the law of sooner or later. The American people will eventually know the whole truth of the matter, sooner or later.
“It is this common practice that serves to protect us and provide at least some small measure of assurance that people who want to be in positions of authority are who they say they are. Having said that can we continue to mock the ‘birthers’ as they are called who want to see both Barack Obama’s birth certificate and another fifteen or so documents about his past that remain locked up like the gold in Fort Knox?”
Yes.
You might as well get your licks in now. Your hero’s world is going to come crumbling down soon enough
Bump
Some of believe that the government is answerable to the people, not vice versa.
That my friend is the question that everyone should be asking. What have you got to hide Barack Hussein Obama Jr or Barry Soetoro or whoever you are??
I like to call him Frankie Davis Jr.
“Your hero’s world is going to come crumbling down soon enough”
Blah, blah, blah
“Some of believe that the government is answerable to the people, not vice versa.”
Big, fancy statement without much content. The government is answerable through the law, and in case you haven’t noticed, there’s this big hole in election law. I can imagine a world in which a private citizen is allowed to bring suit against the president and force him to prove his eligibility, but I’m not sure that’s our world. In the meantime, the parties, the media, state governments, and Congress all dropped the ball. Not sure what’s supposed to be done now, and not sure why it matters so much to so many people, except that they don’t like Obama and would like to see him chucked out.
Maybe you should work a bit harder in exposing the boy marxist instead of biting your pillow, skippy. That’s a fine record you have.
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:tublecane/index?tab=articles
“That’s a fine record you have.”
Is that sarcasm? I don’t very much enjoy posting threads, and don’t do it very often. I prefer posting on other people’s.
It was a short one line statement that describes the difference between a government by and for the people as opposed to most others around the world.
I guess that is small 'tators to folks like you.
LoL!
“I guess that is small ‘tators to folks like you”
No, as I indicated, it was too big a concept for me to usefully apply to the present situation. One could raise the ghost of “government of the people, by the people, for the people,” every time something happens that you don’t like, but it won’t have much of an effect on people.
His political activities in Kenya are all I need to see for me to know we have an unqualified president.
The US is not his only country and our constitution demands that it is.
By knowledge of this very fact we know he intends to damage the US.
If your logic stands, then we can apparently pick and choose whatever we want to follow from the Constitution.
Why would we even have a contract (Constitution) if it doesn’t mean anything?
If the Federal government can just break its contract like that, then I want a divorce.
“If your logic stands, then we can apparently pick and choose whatever we want to follow from the Constitution.”
It’s not so much that people are picking and choosing. They were just too short-sighted to include poof of natural-born status in election law, or to include oversight of said status as part of Congress’ certification of the election. If this is a miscarriage of justice, it’s hard to correct it, without the courts stepping in and declaring it’s their way or the highway, which is their want to do in some cases, but apparently not this one.
If I find it irksome, or perhaps a slap in the face of the rule of law or democracy itself, if the federal government has overstepped its Constitutional power, and that as much as 80 or 90%, or whatever you want to say, of what they do is too much, what should I expect? For SCOTUS to seep everything away and turn the clock back to 1890,or perhaps 1860? That’s a pipe-dream, and not worth my time.
Opening Obama’s birth ceritificate, of course, is smaller potatoes than what I describe, but not by too much. It would be so completely out of the ordinary to chuck a sitting president for any reason, let alone this one, that it’s hard to hope for. Add to that the fact that I personally think he’s a natural born citizen, and my interest in the case shrinks to near zero.
“For SCOTUS to seep everything away and turn the clock back to 1890,or perhaps 1860?”
seep = sweep
Your opinions need to be edumicated with some facts.... a good place to start is:
By Atty Mario Apuzzo (who has an active case in NJ).
You got’s to be deaf-dumb-and-blind to hold on to your Obama Natural Born citizen convictions after reading Apuzzo’s stuff (or maybe just a life-time Dem).
Unique? That would come as a bit of shock to Canadians, Australians, Brits, French, Germans, and people from many other democratic countries.
At this point, I think that it would be acceptable and appropriate if any state in this union wanted to secede based on breach of contract. I won’t say that this is a “pipe-dream” and “not worth my effort” though. That is what people have been saying for nearly the past 100 years, and that is why the government tramples all over us, no matter who is in power.
Hawaii has already confirmed that they have his certificate and that he was born there.
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf
Or do you think she is lying?
Learn how to read, slurp.
Blah, blah, blah. Next time you're pulled over for speeding and realize you forgot your driver's license, have the person in the passenger seat next to you tell the officer that they have "personally seen, and verified" your driver's license and that they can verify that you are an "officially licensed driver." Think that'll fly?
Also read DoH's bogus statements a little more carefully. The statements about seeing Hussein's "vital records(s)" were carefully crafted to cover the DoH's butts. Which "vital record"? Unless you're a mind-numbed Obot, something just doesn't add up because the wording is really bizarre. Something is rotten in Honolulu...
And while we're at it, what gives Fukino the authority to declare that Barry is a Natural Born Citizen?
Man, you really don’t like the idea of government being accountable to the people.
There’s another way government is accountable (besides through specific legal frameworks): government is accountable in the sense that it is lower on the totem pole than we the people.
I think that’s the part you don’t like.
“Blah, blah, blah. Next time you’re pulled over for speeding and realize you forgot your driver’s license, have the person in the passenger seat next to you tell the officer that they have “personally seen, and verified” your driver’s license and that they can verify that you are an “officially licensed driver.” Think that’ll fly?”
Driving licenses aren’t protected legal documents like birth certificates. My companion isn’t the legal guardian of my driving license but Fukino is such for the BC. If you’re going to use metaphors, you’ll need to craft them better.
“Also read DoH’s bogus statements a little more carefully. The statements about seeing Hussein’s “vital records(s)” were carefully crafted to cover the DoH’s butts. Which “vital record”? Unless you’re a mind-numbed Obot, something just doesn’t add up because the wording is really bizarre. Something is rotten in Honolulu...”
And you know they’re bogus how? Or is it just wishful thinking? How would you make the phrase “..verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i” more obvious, less lawyerly or ‘well-crafted’?
“And while we’re at it, what gives Fukino the authority to declare that Barry is a Natural Born Citizen?”
I don’t think she has the authority to declare that but that’s not the important part of her statement, the birthplace is. While we’tre at it, what evidence do you have that her statements aren’t accurate?
Just like that walls of Jericho
They could have even drawn their conclusions by looking at the DNC document that Nancy Pelosi signed and forged that was sent to Hawaii to declare that Obama’s certification.
Hussein Obama is the driver, he has so far produced a demonstrable forgery of a Certificat(ion) of Live Birth. But you knew that already, right? Any American who is proud of his country and his "citizenship" would be proud to produce his actual bona fides. Why is he instead fighting their release on technicalities? Why?
And you know they’re bogus how?
The CoLB has been proven by independent analysis to be a fraud. Here's just one example.
I don’t think she has the authority to declare that but that’s not the important part of her statement, the birthplace is. While we’tre at it, what evidence do you have that her statements aren’t accurate?
Nope she has no authority to make that statement, particulary since NBC status requires that both parents have US citizenship. Barry's father was Kenyan, which conferred UK citizenship to his son, therefore Barry was born governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 and had a dual allegiance. Even if Barry was born in the Oval Office with 100 witnesses he could not qualify under the Constitution as a Natural Born Citizen. As for Fukino's statements, why won't DoH affirm that the CoLB is an accurate representation of what is actually on the "vital records?"
Yep, methinks that is what emboldened Fukino (and the Hawaii AG) with the chutzpah to make that statement. The whole thing reeks...
I am seeing less talk and more action recently, for awhile fear drove many into silence, now its apparent that those of us are slowly gathering confidence in numbers that Yes We Can get Obama removed, there is much more hope now than there was several months ago, more organized efforts and more nationwide resistance to accepting his “changes” that appear as soft selling gifts but carry more involvement since the contract has Americas signature in blood.
Obama has clearly revealed that he will get the people down and then miraculously give them rewards but at a high cost down the road, this is exactly like buying with a credit card with a 79% interest rate, and THAT has actually happened.
First off its all going to be propaganda in the near future, do not allow yourself even a minutes worth of being captivated by his appeals for volunteerism, we all know what he wants. Debrief your children daily and make sure they are fully aware of what the schools are trying to teach them, especially after school activities, Obama will target our children, sadly I have already lost my son who is 15 recently, the state has custody of him until he becomes an adult, he does have problems and is diagnosed with Asbergers Syndrome and has made threats to teachers, I could have dealt with it but instead the state took him away and are placing him in a foster home, I have not seen him in 7 weeks.
Protect your children first and just turn off the TV, get a lot of movies and be ready to stay at home for several weeks.
A manufactured crisis will soon happen, Obama needs to corral the cattle as they are just a little too smart and the Silence is saying something bad is about to happen, we must NOT be corralled. We are NOT cattle to be harvested.
The remake of V the movie should be interesting, I get the feeling it will have some interesting current day political undertones to it. I know the original surely did.
“Hussein Obama is the driver, he has so far produced a demonstrable forgery of a Certificat(ion) of Live Birth. But you knew that already, right? Any American who is proud of his country and his “citizenship” would be proud to produce his actual bona fides. Why is he instead fighting their release on technicalities? Why?”
It’s still a poor analogy. There is a legal requirement for a driver to show their driver’s licence to an LEO. What law states that BO has to show his birth certificate?
“The CoLB has been proven by independent analysis to be a fraud. Here’s just one example.”
Some anonymous guy on the internet is neither proof nor independent analysis. Do you have another example?
“Nope she has no authority to make that statement, particulary since NBC status requires that both parents have US citizenship. Barry’s father was Kenyan, which conferred UK citizenship to his son, therefore Barry was born governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 and had a dual allegiance. Even if Barry was born in the Oval Office with 100 witnesses he could not qualify under the Constitution as a Natural Born Citizen.”
The information about his father being Kenyan has been public for years, it’s in his autobiography - so what the hell do you want to see his birth certificate for? What else is that going to bring to the party?
“As for Fukino’s statements, why won’t DoH affirm that the CoLB is an accurate representation of what is actually on the “vital records?””
She’s already stated quite clearly that he was born in Hawaii so what part of the COLB isn’t she verifying that you believe needs to be verified in order to get to the bottom of whether BO is elgible?
Yes indeed, and therein lies the problem. As a matter of national security, the Constitution REQUIRES the President to be a Natural Born Citizen. Unfortunately the means of enforcement is not spelled out in the Constitution. Realize that 1787 was quite a different time in where a handshake and a man's word was enough. Not so today. In addition, in times past investigative journalism was the "check and balance" against fraud and corruption, but no more.
Something obviously has to change with the process, so that such a potential constitutional crisis doesn't happen again.
Some anonymous guy on the internet is neither proof nor independent analysis. Do you have another example?
You betcha. This one is by Chris Hanson and some more good info here.
The information about his father being Kenyan has been public for years, it’s in his autobiography - so what the hell do you want to see his birth certificate for? What else is that going to bring to the party?
How about some of that openness and transparency Hussein promised? If he really is a proud Natural Born Citizen as he claims, why wouldn't he proudly display the glorious Long Form for all to see? And besides, McCain's eligibility was investigated. Why wasn't Barry's? What is he hiding?
She’s already stated quite clearly that he was born in Hawaii so what part of the COLB isn’t she verifying that you believe needs to be verified in order to get to the bottom of whether BO is elgible?
Back in the Reagan years, there was an ongoing, concerted effort to bring down Reagan and his cabinet, by DemocRats who whined - incessantly - that the mere "appearance of impropriety" was enough to warrant an investigation of wrongdoing by the GOP.
Well, now in 2009 we have quite a bit more than the "appearance" of impropriety, we instead have some really blatant and disturbing stuff (unless one is an Obot of course) coming out of this White House.
Barry, it's time to COME CLEAN!!!
“Yes indeed, and therein lies the problem. As a matter of national security, the Constitution REQUIRES the President to be a Natural Born Citizen. Unfortunately the means of enforcement is not spelled out in the Constitution. Realize that 1787 was quite a different time in where a handshake and a man’s word was enough. Not so today. In addition, in times past investigative journalism was the “check and balance” against fraud and corruption, but no more.
Something obviously has to change with the process, so that such a potential constitutional crisis doesn’t happen again.”
So if there is no legal requirement for BO to show his BC what’s with all the metaphors about driving licenses and the police?
“You betcha. This one is by Chris Hanson and some more good info here.”
Thanks. Worthy of further study. One interesting thing that I got from a cursory review of Hanson’s paper is that he cites a guy called Dr Neal Krawetz as a sort of pioneer and godfather of digital analysis and fraudulent digital images. Seems like this Krawertz is the same guy who debunked Polarik’s analysis here:
“How about some of that openness and transparency Hussein promised? If he really is a proud Natural Born Citizen as he claims, why wouldn’t he proudly display the glorious Long Form for all to see? And besides, McCain’s eligibility was investigated. Why wasn’t Barry’s? What is he hiding?”
So, again there’s no legal requirement for him to show it. If the main issue is his father’s status as a foreigner then everything about getting hold of his BC is smokescreen. Indeed, with Hawaii officially stating that they have his original BC and that he was born in Hawaii, the *only* viable eligibility battle can be the NBC issue.
“Back in the Reagan years, there was an ongoing, concerted effort to bring down Reagan and his cabinet, by DemocRats who whined - incessantly - that the mere “appearance of impropriety” was enough to warrant an investigation of wrongdoing by the GOP.
Well, now in 2009 we have quite a bit more than the “appearance” of impropriety, we instead have some really blatant and disturbing stuff (unless one is an Obot of course) coming out of this White House.
Barry, it’s time to COME CLEAN!!!”
BO’s policies will only hurt America and hurt her badly. On that, I have no disagreement with you but in terms of his elgibility the only seed of doubt that can be generated is about his NBC status via his father. The BC is a complete dead end in that debate.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.