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Major revamp possible for M4 carbine (gas piston included)
officer.com ^ | November 22, 2009 | Matthew Cox

Posted on 11/23/2009 5:41:44 PM PST by re_tail20

The Army is considering a major redesign of the M4 aimed at making the weapon shoot cleaner and longer — at high rates of fire.

As the Army awaits Defense Department approval of a competition to find a new carbine, weapons officials have identified six fixes intended to address shortcomings in reliability, durability and handling of the Army’s inventory of more than 400,000 M4s.

Army weapons officials presented the proposed changes to Congress on Oct. 30. They are:

• Adding a heavier barrel for better performance during high rates of fire.

• Replacing the direct-impingement gas system with a piston gas system.

• Improving the trigger pull.

• Adding an improved rail system for increased strength.

• Adding ambidextrous controls.

• Adding a round counter to track the total number of bullets fired over the weapon’s lifetime.

The Army is considering upgrades to the M4 at the same time it is poised to begin a competition to replace the weapon, a variant of the Vietnam-era M16 family.

Senior leaders launched the effort to find a new weapon in November 2008, a year after the M4 finished in last place in an Army reliability test involving three other carbines. Then-Army Secretary Pete Geren directed the Army’s Infantry Center at Fort Benning, Ga., to update the carbine requirement.

(Excerpt) Read more at forums.officer.com ...


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: m4

1 posted on 11/23/2009 5:41:45 PM PST by re_tail20
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To: re_tail20

Just give the troops a couple of million Ruger SR-556 rifles. That’s the ticket!


2 posted on 11/23/2009 5:43:58 PM PST by 43north (BHO: 50% white, 50% black, 100% red)
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To: re_tail20
Round counter?

Let me guess: It's rail-mounted and takes CR123 3v batteries.

3 posted on 11/23/2009 5:44:15 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: re_tail20
"• Adding a heavier barrel for better performance during high rates of fire. • Replacing the direct-impingement gas system with a piston gas system." Bout time.
4 posted on 11/23/2009 5:45:56 PM PST by Rammer
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To: re_tail20

I was going to order an M4 upper for my next build and went with the mid-length instead.


5 posted on 11/23/2009 5:47:38 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: The KG9 Kid

6 posted on 11/23/2009 5:51:10 PM PST by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
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To: Rammer

Would the piston system increase the perceived recoil or muzzle climb? There is some mass traveling back & forth. Anybody fire both?


7 posted on 11/23/2009 5:51:30 PM PST by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: The KG9 Kid

They should defund 1ea F22 or F35 fighter and get HK uppers and .45 cal pistols for all services. But I doubt the gound pounders are worth it to the Pentagon.

Round counters are a useless waste. Good PMIs/Armorers will prevent problems early.


8 posted on 11/23/2009 5:52:05 PM PST by Pavegunner72
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To: 43north

Wow! When did that come out? Holy smokes!

Old man Ruger was extra careful and product development suffered. Never had a decent carry gun but the SR9 looks pretty good for carry.

I had a Bushie AR until it fell off my boat with my old Ruger P85 9 mm. I miss them. Ruger’s reliability is legendary. Your suggestion is excellent.

The Mini-14 would not win any accuracy prizes. This new SR-556 looks awesome.


9 posted on 11/23/2009 5:53:53 PM PST by Frantzie (Judge David Carter - democrat & dishonorable Marine like John Murtha.)
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To: Frantzie
I had a Bushie AR until it fell off my boat

There's a story in there...
10 posted on 11/23/2009 6:03:05 PM PST by Rodebrecht (Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.)
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To: Rodebrecht

That is odd, you usually need a .308 cal. for bass.


11 posted on 11/23/2009 6:13:21 PM PST by fightin kentuckian
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To: re_tail20

Bushmaster already has an interchangeable patented AK-47 type gas piston system.

Think the replacement system runs about $300 without looking it up.


12 posted on 11/23/2009 6:15:10 PM PST by Hammerhead
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To: Rodebrecht

Yeah I tried to save them but they sank to the bottom of the sea. I no longer own any guns because they can be dangerous. I have a Gun Free Zone sign in front of my house. If it saves just one life.


13 posted on 11/23/2009 6:15:59 PM PST by Frantzie (Judge David Carter - democrat & dishonorable Marine like John Murtha.)
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To: re_tail20
Army weapons officials presented the proposed changes to Congress on Oct. 30. They are:

It already exists:

14 posted on 11/23/2009 6:16:10 PM PST by killjoy (Life sucks, wear a helmet.)
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To: fightin kentuckian

LOL! Priceless!

I was thinking about a SA58 FAL from DSA Arms for Bass.

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-Original-Series/products/35/

Or STG58 Austrian FAL.

http://www.dsarms.com/STG58-Austrian-FAL/products/9/

I need the .308 for bass. I stay away from guns now because they scare me.


15 posted on 11/23/2009 6:22:35 PM PST by Frantzie (Judge David Carter - democrat & dishonorable Marine like John Murtha.)
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To: re_tail20

• Adding a heavier barrel for better performance during high rates of fire. - {Depends on weapon role/application}

• Replacing the direct-impingement gas system with a piston gas system. - {Yes, us redneck gunsmiths have been advocating this for decades. Put a knob on the bolt carrier while we’re at it }

• Improving the trigger pull. {If there is ONE rifle in the cabinet I can’t hit squat with for the first few rounds, it’s the AR. - Need a couple of squeezes to get reacquainted with the trigger }

• Adding an improved rail system for increased strength. {Is this a problem?}

• Adding ambidextrous controls. {Possible}

• Adding a round counter to track the total number of bullets fired over the weapon’s lifetime. - {May God save us from the gadget geeks}


16 posted on 11/23/2009 6:23:16 PM PST by labette ( Humble student of Thinkology)
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To: killjoy

Ohh baby. Come to Papa!


17 posted on 11/23/2009 6:24:47 PM PST by Mr. Jazzy ("I AM JIM THOMPSON and moderates make me PUKE!!!")
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To: 43north

That would be sweet, but I want one and this would drive the price up even more!

Try a DPMS gas piston M4 modded for auto with a bull barrel and add-on round counter, and you’re there. Reasonable price, too.


18 posted on 11/23/2009 6:31:05 PM PST by piytar (Go Away RNC, Steele, Graham, and the rest of the lib-loser GOP. WE'RE TAKING OUR PARTY BACK!)
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To: re_tail20
Army weapons officials presented the proposed changes to Congress

Why does congress have to be involved in this? Do they get a cut from the contractors? Let the men on the ground and their leaders make the decision.

19 posted on 11/23/2009 6:41:35 PM PST by HusbandMan
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To: Tallguy

“Would the piston system increase the perceived recoil or muzzle climb? There is some mass traveling back & forth. Anybody fire both?”

I’ve put a lot of rounds through both types. Haven’t noticed any real difference in terms of perceived recoil or muzzle climb. Come cleaning time, though, there is a HUGE difference. The gas piston runs far cleaner. It’s not even close!


20 posted on 11/23/2009 6:46:38 PM PST by piytar (Go Away RNC, Steele, Graham, and the rest of the lib-loser GOP. WE'RE TAKING OUR PARTY BACK!)
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To: Pavegunner72

Great idea. Defund the next generation Air Force and defend the nation, up to 1,000 or 1,500 feet, with small arms. That will stop ‘em.


21 posted on 11/23/2009 6:52:23 PM PST by pfflier
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To: pfflier

I’d venture to guess there are many more ground troops in harms way than zippersuits right now. 1 jet won’t be missed I’m sure, but a dozen infantrymen with 40 year old technology firearms will be.


22 posted on 11/23/2009 6:56:32 PM PST by Pavegunner72
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To: Pavegunner72

Well newby, this is an age old argument on FR and we are plowing ground that even the worms have left because it’s been turned over so much.


23 posted on 11/23/2009 7:22:33 PM PST by pfflier
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To: Tallguy

Most of the mass is in the bolt. I don’t think you could tell any difference. I wonder if it might slow down the rate of fire a bit? Probably not enough to make any difference.

Runs a lot cooler and cleaner too, since you don’t have all that hot gas blowing back into the receiver.


24 posted on 11/23/2009 8:35:40 PM PST by smokingfrog (I'm from TEXAS -- what country are YOU from?)
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To: pfflier

“Newby” -Pulling Blog Rank on me? That’s a good one to fall back on, especially when you are losing an arguement.


25 posted on 11/24/2009 6:24:55 AM PST by Pavegunner72
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To: re_tail20
Fal.
26 posted on 11/27/2009 9:04:39 PM PST by omega4179 (0 is an embarrassment to us all.)
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