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Capt. Kirk vs. John Galt: Who Should We Follow?
All American Blogger ^ | 11-24-09 | Duane Lester

Posted on 11/24/2009 12:48:52 PM PST by Bodhi1

In the new Star Trek, Cadet James Tiberius Kirk finds himself standing before the Academy's review board. During his third attempt at a computer simulation no one had ever passed, Kirk installed a subroutine in the simulator's programming which allowed him to win. He was accused of this by Spock, the creator of the simulation.conservative-kirk.jpg

Here's part of the exchange, starting with Kirk's justification for his actions:

Kirk: [to Spock] The test itself is a cheat, isn't it? I mean you program it to be unwinnable.
Spock: Your argument precludes the possibility of a no-win scenario.
Kirk: I don't believe in no-win scenarios.
(Source)

This shows a change in Kirk's belief system. Prior to this, Captain Christopher Pike told Kirk his dad didn't believe in no-win situations. Kirk replied, "Well, you see how that worked out for him." Kirk's father drove his ship into an enemy ship, but his sacrifice allowed others to live, including Kirk and his mother.

Pike replies, "I guess it depends on how you define "winning."

Captain Kirk then attacked his challenges head on, often risking his own life to achieve victory.

John Galt, the hero in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged," looked at his own no-win scenario and took a different approach. With not only his company, but his country, rushing towards collectivism, he felt the total collapse of the nation was inevitable. So he quit. He went on strike.

And he took the best of the best with him. One by one he talked the heads of industry into disappearing, leaving the looters to search for another mine to strip.

It would be like Kirk leaving the Enterprise and taking Spock, McCoy and Scotty.

Galt felt what he was facing could not be stopped. So he chose to speed it along its path and pick up the pieces after it collapsed.

Kirk fights. Galt walks.

There are days I find myself wondering which is the appropriate role to take in today's America. I look across the Bridge to Dependence and see so many Americans already on the other side, calling for more to join them and wonder if I shouldn't just let them. Go Galt and get out of the way.

And then there are days where I feel more like Captain Kirk, wanting to confront the ideas of collectivism and Marxism and explain to people that that road leads to the destruction of the individual.

Is America too far gone? Are the Captain Kirks of the conservative and libertarian movement wasting their time? Is there still a chance to win this fight for liberty?

Again, it depends on how you define "winning." If you simply mean a return to Republican party domination, winning is possible. In fact, the more the Democrats do, the more probable it becomes.

However, Republicans in majority behave badly. Rep. Sam Graves, my Congressman, usually votes with a conservative mind. But when the opportunity came for him to take a stand for fiscal conservatism, he chose to vote for $200 billion in looting.

I can't see that as winning. Winning has to be a return to the limited government Madison and Jefferson wanted. That goal is far more difficult. It will take decades to educate a majority of Americans about conservative values, if we can get them to care about the state of the nation more than the state of "Dancing with the Stars." It's a very difficult goal, but is it no-win?

Galt or Kirk? Where are we and what should we do? Tell me what you think in the comments.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Government; Politics; TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: captainkirk; johngalt; startrek

1 posted on 11/24/2009 12:48:54 PM PST by Bodhi1
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To: Bodhi1
Kirk installed a subroutine in the simulator's programming which allowed him to win

Kirk was a meteorologist for the CRU?

2 posted on 11/24/2009 12:50:19 PM PST by agere_contra
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To: Bodhi1

Beam me up, Scotty. I’m tired of this s*it.


3 posted on 11/24/2009 12:52:59 PM PST by hoe_cake (A member of the Society of the Descendants of the Signers of the Constitution.)
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To: agere_contra
Kirk was a meteorologist for the CRU?

Now that's funny, right there!

4 posted on 11/24/2009 12:53:31 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: agere_contra

Or an Acorn organizer! :)


5 posted on 11/24/2009 12:54:24 PM PST by Pessimist (u)
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To: agere_contra

That was damned funny. Kudos, sir.


6 posted on 11/24/2009 12:54:47 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Bodhi1

7 posted on 11/24/2009 12:55:40 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Bodhi1
Gault’s way is out. He had a place to run to. There are no more places like that so Kirk and we conservatives have to take back our “place”. (the whole USA) And like our opposition (liberals, Marxist, communist,Democrats)and we have to do it any damn way we can. What ever it takes. I hope not with arms but it may come to that in the future.
8 posted on 11/24/2009 12:56:20 PM PST by fish hawk (It's sad that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom. Isaac Asimov)
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To: Bodhi1
Galt: "I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine."

Kirk: "KAHN!!!!!!!"

9 posted on 11/24/2009 12:58:12 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Live jubtabulously!)
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To: Bodhi1

I miss the Shat.....


10 posted on 11/24/2009 12:59:31 PM PST by Sybeck1 (Mmmm, Mmmm, Mmmm.......)
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To: Bodhi1

Consider someone who actually lived: George Washington. He backed away from many conflicts to save his Army to fight again on another day on his own terms. When the time was right, he hit back - HARD and completely by surprise.

You don’t have to choose Kirk or Galt. You can be a Washington.


11 posted on 11/24/2009 1:01:15 PM PST by Kirkwood
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To: Bodhi1

It doesn’t matter who you follow.....just stay well away from the fifth person in the five-man landing party!!


12 posted on 11/24/2009 1:02:43 PM PST by Logic n' Reason (If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.)
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To: Bodhi1
And then there are days where I feel more like Captain Kirk, wanting to confront the ideas of collectivism and Marxism and explain to people that that road leads to the destruction of the individual.

You mean like Ayn Rand did? While confronting the evil of collectivism she justified the removal of the sanction of the victim. Kirk and Galt, combined.

13 posted on 11/24/2009 1:03:14 PM PST by Misterioso (The uncontested absurdities of today are the accepted slogans of tomorrow. -- Ayn Rand)
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To: hoe_cake
Yea, wake me up and tell me it's only a dream from the alternate universe episode Mirror, Mirror.


14 posted on 11/24/2009 1:03:41 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Bodhi1

The writer neglects to add that the “rebooted Star Trek” is an insane failure of a drama in which cadets are given command of capital ships, the timeline is twisted for dramatic effect (i.e. lazy writing), and idiotic special effects substitute for the real physical universe. “Star Trek” is what many have become: observers who want to be taken care of despite reality. And as many of us know, reality is something that is strictly enforced, sooner or later.


15 posted on 11/24/2009 1:03:47 PM PST by pabianice
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To: Pessimist
Good point! I forgot about NY-23

KIRK: "I don't believe in a no-win Election"

16 posted on 11/24/2009 1:04:00 PM PST by agere_contra
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To: Bodhi1
Any body knows you can't follow Galt!!!!! He was a fictional character!

Now Kirk....he's real.....or.....ummmm.....er.....will be real!

17 posted on 11/24/2009 1:04:16 PM PST by Logic n' Reason (If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.)
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To: dfwgator
Shouldn't that be Bill O’Reilly in that picture with that caption?
18 posted on 11/24/2009 1:04:23 PM PST by fish hawk (It's sad that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom. Isaac Asimov)
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To: fish hawk

“Jim, the Klingons are dying.” - McCoy
“Let them die.” - James Tiberius Kirk


19 posted on 11/24/2009 1:10:45 PM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Bodhi1

How many hot, green, alien chicks did John Galt get it on with?


20 posted on 11/24/2009 1:11:05 PM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: Servant of the Cross

I think I liked him better with the beard.


21 posted on 11/24/2009 1:11:38 PM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: fish hawk

You are right. There is no place to run to.


22 posted on 11/24/2009 1:15:42 PM PST by screaminsunshine (!!)
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To: agere_contra
Kirk fights. Galt walks.

We need a combo. One that quits supporting an evil government and is ready for the consequences.

23 posted on 11/24/2009 1:16:15 PM PST by wolfcreek (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsd7DGqVSIc)
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To: Bodhi1
Is America too far gone?

Yes.

I'm thinking, "walk" until AFTER the collapse, then fight like hell to re-establish the Constitution, with the following small changes:

1) A line item veto for the president will be included.
2) Term limits for both houses of congress will be dictated.
3) NO mention of "the General Welfare" shall appear anywhere in the document. It has proven too confusing for some to understand.
4) The phrase "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" will be removed from the Bill of Rights.
5) The death penalty shall be mandated for ANY elected federal official who accepts money from ANY individual or corporation lobbying for ANY legislation; said penalty shall be carried out via hanging by the neck until dead on a gallows constructed on the front steps of the Capitol building for the express purpose of executing corrupt elected federal officials.

24 posted on 11/24/2009 1:16:26 PM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: Bodhi1
I would love to run to Galts Gulch (the American continent) but this is the last place to run to. Picture Gandolph on the rope bridge....at this place we STAND.

This country does not need the right people in place to run smoothly or improve even more. It needs a govt that lives within the rules. Courts that jealously defend the letter of the law. Lawmakers that work within the rules and guard against the Judiciary and the Executive, and a strong Executive with the fear of being kicked out of office if he steps on the toes of either one.

Of course we need upstanding people within these branches, but mostly we just need rules that are followed. Wouldn't it be nice if govt was out of line, you could handle it locally? States rights, they are important and are the keystone of our Republic. Too bad those idiots in Europe haven't figured out that if they emulated the US in its early years, they could have both a strong Republic, and a strong voice within their homeland.

25 posted on 11/24/2009 1:20:44 PM PST by runninglips (It was just time for this to come to a head.....)
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To: Bodhi1
I know many believe that things are unfolding as they should, to bring the Anti-christ to power, and thus bring Jesus Christs return. This leads some to fatalism, or to concentrate on salvation and ignore politics.

America's founding fathers were mostly strong Christians, (that can only be argued otherwise, if you ignore their writings and what contemporaries wrote about them.) But Benjamin Franklin leaned towards Deism, a belief that God may have created, but other than that he has kept his hands off. After the great conflict of the revolution and with time for reflection, it was Benjamin Franklin that called for daily prayer citing that God does listen and answer our prayers as they all knew and experianced. In other words, he changed his mind.

It is not ungodly to be in conflict against evil, it is our heratige. Conflict seems to have a way of clarifiing our thinking like nothing else. It is good and right to take the Fascists head on, and now is the time. The outcome is in God's hands, and whatever it is, we can not lose.

26 posted on 11/24/2009 1:21:07 PM PST by D Rider
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To: Bodhi1

So the resigning governor Sarah “Shrugged” just like Ayn Rand’s John Galt, then, di’n’t she?


27 posted on 11/24/2009 1:21:35 PM PST by flowerplough ( Pennsylvania today - New New Jersey meets North West Virginia.)
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To: Kirkwood; Bodhi1
Consider someone who actually lived: George Washington. He backed away from many conflicts to save his Army to fight again on another day on his own terms. When the time was right, he hit back - HARD and completely by surprise. You don’t have to choose Kirk or Galt. You can be a Washington.

Thanks.

I think you do both. Build your family. Build your business. Build the culture you want to live in. And when you have to fight, fight.

28 posted on 11/24/2009 1:22:06 PM PST by marron
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To: Bodhi1
And he took the best of the best with him. One by one he talked the heads of industry into disappearing, leaving the looters to search for another mine to strip.

That's the problem with fiction. It's easy to set up your own boogeyman and then knock them down.

In real life, it's the heads of industry that are the looters and they aren't likely to follow someone like Galt.

29 posted on 11/24/2009 1:23:14 PM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker (People should not be afraid of the government. Governement should be afraid of the people)
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To: Logic n' Reason

Just don’t get caught wearing the red shirt...

hh


30 posted on 11/24/2009 1:25:05 PM PST by hoosier hick (Note to RINOs: We need a choice, not an echo....Barry Goldwater)
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To: Kirkwood
You don’t have to choose Kirk or Galt. You can be a Washington.

Well said.

31 posted on 11/24/2009 1:29:00 PM PST by FourPeas (Why does Professor Presbury's wolfhound, Roy, endeavour to bite him?)
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To: Kirkwood

Kirk occaisionally used the tactical retreat. That would put Washington closer to Kirk on the continuum.


32 posted on 11/24/2009 1:36:31 PM PST by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: WayneS

If you opt to give a President that much power than I propose a wrinkle used by the classical Greeks: on leaving office the autocrat (read: President) is automatically indicted on charges of treason. IOW’s he must defend his actions in office before a legal body. If he is defeated he goes into exile, or faces other criminal penalty.


33 posted on 11/24/2009 1:41:27 PM PST by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: flowerplough
No. I'd say she's "attacking in a different direction".
34 posted on 11/24/2009 2:02:06 PM PST by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: tnlibertarian
How many hot, green, alien chicks did John Galt get it on with?

"If the b***h is green, there must be something wrong with the p***y" - Eddie Murphy

35 posted on 11/24/2009 3:06:21 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Bodhi1
It's a little hard to tell. Galt was reluctant to kill anyone but his buddy Francisco d'Anconia wasn't at all. So if "follow Galt" means hipshooting marauding union thugs with a revolver in each hand, then sign me up. James T. Kirk never did that.

The question, of course, is a metaphor for the real one, does one fight or try nonviolent civil disobedience first? That assumes there is a choice. Given the proclivity of the Left for bloodshed toward class enemies, we may not have one.

36 posted on 11/24/2009 3:13:55 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: dfwgator

Wait a minute. Wasn’t he Gumby?


37 posted on 11/24/2009 4:00:13 PM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: fish hawk

I agree.

I’m from a long line of those that don’t run (walk).

We advance.

Semper Fi .


38 posted on 11/24/2009 8:59:11 PM PST by Shadowstrike (Be polite, Be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: WayneS
I disagree with your 1, 2 and 5. They miss the root cause of what has afflicted our nation for the past century or violate the intent of the constitution. My suggestions:

And so long as I am being radical in a fiscally conservative way, debt based money and usury should be forbidden constitutionally. My late father who was a CPA once asked me "What reason does money have any inherent value such that it should acquire additional value as time passes (compound interest)?" I never came up with a good response to that.

39 posted on 11/24/2009 10:11:09 PM PST by altair (I want him to fail)
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To: Tallguy; WayneS
If you opt to give a President that much power than I propose a wrinkle used by the classical Greeks: on leaving office the autocrat (read: President) is automatically indicted on charges of treason.

I think he's off-base a bit, but that's an interesting idea. I don't think you should need something like that in a properly constitutionally limited republic, but an interesting idea nonetheless.

40 posted on 11/24/2009 10:16:28 PM PST by altair (I want him to fail)
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To: Tallguy; altair

You are correct that a line item veto should not be necessary.

I think if some of altair’s ideas were implemented then any necessity for a line item veto could be pretty much done away with.

OTOH, we COULD add a clause in the Constitution which states that NO piece of legislation may be longer than five (5) pages of 8-1/2” x 11” paper including, pre-amble; that single-spaced, 12 pt, Times New Roman type must be used, that each page shall have 1” margins at the top, bottom and on both sides, and that no abbreviations or acronyms of any kind may be substituted for actuakl words anywhere in the body of the Bill.

That oughta keep things short and sweet.

“Try inserting a last minute “rider” into THAT, ya’ jackasses!”

;-)


41 posted on 11/25/2009 4:42:35 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th)
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To: WayneS

Another idea would be to return to the spirit of a part-time legislative body. Don’t allow congress to sit for more than say 3 months unless called into emergency session by the Supreme Court or the President. Make those idiots live in their districts & hold real jobs or run real businesses.

Another reform would be to eliminate the direct election of Senators. Go back to selecting them by majority vote of the home state legislature. That way these jokers represent their States breathing new life into the 10th Ammendment.


42 posted on 11/25/2009 7:46:28 AM PST by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: hoosier hick
Just don’t get caught wearing the red shirt...

You got it! I wonder if those shirts didn't have a target on the back of them!!??

43 posted on 11/25/2009 8:26:19 AM PST by Logic n' Reason (If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.)
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To: Logic n' Reason

I have 400 Quatloo on Captain Kirk (for the record)


44 posted on 11/25/2009 8:31:39 AM PST by Scythian
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To: Scythian
I have 400 Quatloo on Captain Kirk (for the record)

You're going to need far more than 400....the Quatloo has been devalued along with the US dollar.

Besides, the Chinese (now the world leader at least in financial matters) does not recognize either the Quatloo or the US dollar.

They DO love Tribbles tho!!

45 posted on 11/25/2009 8:37:36 AM PST by Logic n' Reason (If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.)
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To: Logic n' Reason
They DO love Tribbles tho!!

General Tso's Tribbles?

46 posted on 11/25/2009 8:38:39 AM PST by NeoCaveman (you betcha)
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To: Logic n' Reason; Scythian

500 quatloos on the newcomer.


47 posted on 11/25/2009 11:38:16 AM PST by altair (I want him to fail)
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