Skip to comments.Arguing with Idiots… Part Deaux (A full-frontal assault on the Temple of Darwin)
Posted on 12/04/2009 9:55:41 PM PST by Gordon Greene
Arguing with Idiots Part Deaux (A full-frontal assault on the Temple of Darwin) (Link to PDF).
(I know Ive done rants like this before, but you guys are worth it!)
Dear worshippers of Darwin and lovers of self,
My personal (condensed) declaration of faith:
I believe in the God of the Bible. I believe in the Bible. I believe what it says. I believe, unashamedly that God is the Creator of the Universe and that He created it just as described in the Genesis account. I believe the only way to receive salvation is to believe and receive Jesus Christ as your savior. I believe that if you do not accept Jesus as your savior then you will spend eternity in the lake of fire, created for Satan and his followers separated forever from God.
My personal (condensed) declaration of allegiance to American values:
I believe that the founding Fathers had faith in and worshipped the God of the Bible. I believe the Founders trusted God and the laws of God to be a guide and to provide the framework for what would become the United States of America. I believe that the Founders incorporated those values into our founding documents including the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. I believe that very same Godly, Biblical foundation is what has sustained us as a nation for over 200 years. I believe the same is why this nation has been blessed beyond any other nation in history. I believe forsaking those principles is what is plunging this country headlong into socialism. I believe if we, as a people do not turn back to God and to His truth, this great nation has seen its best days.
Now, my message to the evolutionists and atheists on freerepublic
You continually disgrace and shame yourselves and this site by purposely attempting to offend those who believe in God and Creation and frankly, I'm amazed it has gone on this long. The honest debate over differences of opinion are welcome on this site (correct me if Im wrong) but even more-so the promotion of the God-centered foundation of our country and government. Yet you make it a playground for your near-pornographic display of anti-Christian rhetoric. Do I and others respond in an other-than kind way from time to time? Absolutely! That's what people do when you offer a constant barrage of insults and deliver responses dripping with hollow, moral superiority. Like many, I tried at first to reason with you. I found that there is no reasoning with the true-believers in the Temple of Darwin (with rare exception, I must note). So I barb its my way of dealing with it.
From time to time one of you may pretend to seek an honest argument or answer only to turn it into a battle of context, performing hopeless and pointless contortions of the English language. Your mental gymnastics are generally childlike and wholly unnecessary. All you would have to do is to say you dont have the mental capacity to understand the argument and that would be that but that is not your goal.
You have this sick wish to see those who literally interpret the Bible and faithful Christians into converts of the radical wing of the Temple of Darwin or, at the very least to make an example of their comments (unsuccessfully, as a general rule). Then you can take their replies to your Darwins Temple websites and display them in the midst of those ungodly freak shows.
Earlier, I was questioned as to whether it was fair of me to say that you lead children into hell. My question is, Is it fair of you to do so? In my estimation, thats exactly what youre doing when you shove your unfounded faith in dry bones down the throats of schoolchildren. You claim we have nothing on which to base our faith in God and Creation, yet I suggest to you there is no evidence of evolution in the way that you teach and believe it no proof of inter-species evolution taking place and no evidence that life was formed in a way that disputes the Biblical account. There is much more circumstantial evidence in the Creation account in Genesis than what you place your faith in, yet that is not my primary argument this evening.
Heres the beef: most of you troll posts with a religious bent for the express purpose of inserting chaos into the equation. In that, you are no better than the community organizers at ACORN. You attempt to confuse, divide, destroy and deride those who believe your religion to be false. Yet, your religion is more than false; it rises to the level of cult. Its followers are brainwashed by manufactured statistics as if Al Gore himself were beating on the pulpit, loudly testifying to the dangers of non-belief. And you not only believe the lies, you are some of its chief priests!
Like the climate mongers and the climatologists at CRU, your actions do have consequences. However, the disastrous effects of your insidious message are far more devastating than the physical and monetary cost of the climate hoax. Your target is the soul of man. Since the dawning of the Age of Darwinism, millions of men, women and children have fallen victim, maybe even you. And for those who claim to be Christian and evolutionists, I offer this from one of my recent responses
If you draw evolution out to its ultimate end it either:
A. Denies the existence of God.
B. Denies His relevance.
C. Boils the Word of God down to a collection of allegory.
Unlike a lot of folks that share my beliefs in God and Creation, I dont believe that faith in evolution automatically excludes you from Christianity. People are in different stages of their walk and some find the truth more slowly than others but that doesnt mean they arent saved. But if you follow the (il)logic of evolution very far, it discounts faith in the God of the Bible.
That is to say most would have to conclude from studying Evolution that God does not exist. Being a priest and a disseminator of the gospel of Evolution is no different than being in a sinking ship and destroying the only life preserver because you believe if you cant have it, no one else should.
If you were honest with yourselves you would admit there is no honest scientific evidence proving evolution. Most of you have heard the truth of the Bible and chosen to reject it. I personally believe (again my personal belief) that you and those who promote the baseless theory of evolution will be judged by God for leading others to discount God as well.
Matthew 18:6 (New International Version)
6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
2 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Romans 1:22 (New International Version)
22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
Exodus 20:11 (New International Version)
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
John 1:3 (New International Version)
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
2 Chronicles 7:14 (New International Version)
7If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
If I left anyone off that I needed to encourage or offend, please add them. If I sent this to anyone who didn’t care to see it...
There’s always tomorrow.
Preach it, brother!
Thanks for the ping!
You’re fast... that’s probably why they call you, “smokingfrog”!
Amen and Amen. Please ping me on all your posts.
Thomas Jefferson to John Adams ....
"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests." - to John Adams, 1803
No, that’s fine... any other rare exceptions you’d like to post, I’m up for it. I’ll see your Jefferson and raise you a Washington any day.(of course, a reply may have to wait until tomorrow).
By the way... care to comment on the entire piece or are you just here to cherry pick (speaking of Washington) as usual?
Hello. Nice post.
Yes, evolution - the fraud that has taken many millions to death and hell.,,,is much more serious than Climategate - but related to it.
May I also recommend some fantastic “short” sermons - by Dr. Erwin Lutzer - that are extremely enlightening on this subject and downloadable as podcasts or available simply for audio listening on the net.
These are ALL quite good - see the listing at
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistant that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel."
If we don't make it up...
ALL THE NEWS THAT'S FIT TO BE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT
You’ve got ‘em cornered now.
You lose on your Washington:
Historian Barry Schwartz writes: "George Washington's practice of Christianity was limited and superficial because he was not himself a Christian... He repeatedly declined the church's sacraments. Never did he take communion, and when his wife, Martha, did, he waited for her outside the sanctuary... Even on his deathbed, Washington asked for no ritual, uttered no prayer to Christ, and expressed no wish to be attended by His representative." [New York Press, 1987, pp. 174-175]
Paul F. Boller states in is anthology on Washington: "There is no mention of Jesus Christ anywhere in his extensive correspondence." [Dallas: Southern Methodist University Press, 1963, pp. 14-15]
I agree too, sir!
Thomas Jefferson will have to answer to God for his refusal to believe the truth; but that makes it no less true!
Dr. Lutzer’s Running to Win series has focused on the Truth of God’s creation vs the Darwinian delusion since mid November.
His titles include:
The Tale of Two Graves - 4 Parts - begun 11/17/09
“Charles Darwin made history with ‘On the Origin of Species’. This book helped launch evolution on its way...
The battle lines are drawn. Christians believe in a Creator God. Evolutionists believe in random chance. The bottom line: if there’s no God, there’s no one to judge our behavior. And a lot of people would like that just fine. Today: we begin a series on “The Darwin Delusion.” “
God’s Great Universe - 4 Parts - begun 11/23/2009
“Evolutionists have a tough sell. It’s one thing to say life developed by chance. It’s another to say how it all started...
Untold quadrillions of stars, planets and galaxies all argue that a Designer put them there. Pure chance can’t create anything...something had to set it all in motion. Today, a look at the virtual infinity that is the universe we live in...fit to honor the One who made it all.”
God’s First Couple - 3 Parts - begun 11/27/2009
“For Darwin’s followers, there was no Eden. Primitive man rose up by pure chance from the primieval slime, and, here we are.
The Bible gives an account with no chances. God hand-made the first human man and woman, and gave them a place to live with a mandate to serve Him as custodians of the earth. While the world celebrates Darwin’s theories, believers know that it was God, not chance, that brought male and female together.”
The Fingerprints of God - 4 Parts - begun 12/2/2009
“The scientific method involves experimentation and the validation of results. When it comes to creation, this won’t work.... There’s no way to re-enact the moment of creation. Science must give way to faith, and that troubles many. The issue of evolution has carved a great divide between those who believe the Bible and those who scorn it. Today: questions and answers on a theory that really can’t hold water.”
Wow! What a post!
The lies, the hypocrisy, the seething burning hate and the overall general nuttiness.
If you are really an Atheist pretending to be a Christian in order to scare people away from religion, you’re doing a great job.
(ping to a follow up post to #11 - at #18)
As far as I can tell you're speaking of my question in the earlier thread (post #276). My actual question was, "do you consider your assertion that teaching evolution delivers children into the hands of Hell an example of reasoned debate?"
Your reply was essentially, "Yes, because the Bible says so", and then you mentioned something in the Bible that seems to imply (in the context you were using it) that it would be better to drown someone rather than let them teach evolution to children.
Y'know, it's funny...I know a number of Christians, and they don't talk like that.
If you want to see nuttiness in action just look at the thread that inspired this one, in which posters advocate geocentrism and argue that the use of antibiotics defies the word of God and shortens people's lives.
While there is an anti-science kooky fringe in the Conservative movement, it is (luckily) quite small.
I was of a very scientific mind, but some of these fundamentalists have finally gotten me to see the light. I now agree that the earth is at most 5,000 years old. How else could the Egyptians have built the pyramids but with a powerful brachiosaurus?
I suppose this came to mind because a week or so ago I stumbled on a wacko fundamentalist website for kids that explained that the earth was only 5K years old and man and dinosaurs lived together. If the timeline of the Bible doesn't quite fit, just change all known evidence!
G_d made me. I am his child.
The D'winists certainly behave like they're descended from monkeys! So if they insist....
“I found that there is no reasoning with the true-believers in the Temple of Darwin....”
Could you be reasoned out of your belief in God?
As a firm believer in evolution I think we can still both agree on the graphic above.
Asbestos underwear on.
You nailed it.
In this line, “Its followers are brainwashed by manufactured statistics as if Al Gore himself were beating on the pulpit, loudly testifying to the dangers of non-belief. And you not only believe the lies, you are some of its chief priests!”
Chief priests, like Richard Dawkins...
Quoting Thomas Paine.
I would expect no less from an evo.....
You sure put a lot of stake in the words of men.
An historian, who never met Gen. Washington, passes judgment on his faith.
So he declined the church sacraments? Big deal.
They’re not what saves you anyway. It’s repentance and Christ alone.
I Timothy 2:5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all menthe testimony given in its proper time.
Go through Christ and there’s no need for anything else as salvation is based on faith, not works.
Jefferson was wrong, as were so many others who predicted and longed for the end of Christianity.
Paine, in his evo-like hatred of the Bible, totally misses that the Bible deals a lot with historical things and does not gloss them over. It deals with reality and what people really did. It doesn’t mean, however, that God condoned “the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness”.
The Pharisees also accused Jesus of being demonic. Nothing new under the sun.
IMHO, move back away from it, take it all in, and the two come together beautifully (at least in my mind). God made the earth in 6 days and took a day off. Some folks believe that, fine with me. Because of the proof of evolution, there is no God ... and some believe that ... also fine with me. But if you have a deeper faith and have a secure grounding in your faith, you'll see evolution is absolutely real, something humans could figure out, but never be able to accomplish themselves ... leaving only wonder. So what could "cause" this incredible process to not only function beyond time, but perfectly "automatically?" There's where I find my concept of God. I'm not going to limit him to a 6 day a week union worker taking Sunday's off to watch the Jets. In my mind Evolution is a fact, and so is God. You just have to step back to a point where they will converge and you'll see the whole picture.
I smile ... its a non-issue (for me).
I would expect no less from an evo....
This is a thread in which the original poster asserts that the Founding Fathers had faith in and worshipped the God of the Bible. My quotes (including the Paine quote) are evidence that some of them did not.
Was I incorrect? If so, please point out how. If you do not, I can only assume that you now agree that the quote was appropriate.
“Your source doesn’t present himself very well does he!?
ALL THE NEWS THAT’S FIT TO BE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT”
It’s not my “source”... it’s my website.
And, yes... isn’t it ironic? I guess in retrospect I should post only pro-evolution stories with those kinds of statements!
So you know, to post a story here you have to link to a valid website. Otherwise I wouldn’t have posted a link at all.
God bless. Enjoy God’s creation today.
Lovely use of sarcasm...
The goal is not to corner them (you)... it’s to let off steam and maybe encourage believers. You guys will either believe or not. It makes no appreciable difference to me.
Ahh... I’ve been waiting for you! You’re the one I named this post for.
If you read hate then you would be mistaken. That’s the only qualification I will give in reply to your pseudo-obsequious response.
I find pseudosciences such as creationism interesting so it's something of a pet issue for me, but I will readily acknowledge that in the grand scheme of things the evolution/creationism debate simply isn't that important as compared to issues such national defense and economics.
Those are the issues that conservatives need to rally around.
Paine, in his evo-like hatred of the Bible...
I was merely using these quotes to point out some of the Founding Fathers weren't Christians. Do you disagree?
“I found that there is no reasoning with the true-believers in the Temple of Darwin....
Could you be reasoned out of your belief in God?”
Someone who admits that their belief in Darwin is their religion!
My life is complete.
My point was that most of you cannot be fairly debated, not that we cannot change your beliefs.
Great reply, “An historian, who never met Gen. Washington, passes judgment on his faith.
So he declined the church sacraments? Big deal.
Theyre not what saves you anyway. Its repentance and Christ alone.”
The point I’d like to add (not to CW... he’s a lost cause, but for others who may fall prey to his babblings) is that for every single claim he makes about the faith, or lack thereof of the Founders, we can post 50 direct quotes that support Christ, the Word of God and Jehovah as they relate to the founding and future direction of this country.
The problem is when an abundance of information is presented they always lose. That’s why they always cherry pick and take out of context convenient statements from the Bible and from the founders. They don’t take us to task on the founding documents because they lose there as well.
The problem is, if they win everyone loses... even them.
Put your pants back on, I admitted no such thing.
So.... could you be reasoned out of your belief in God?
Would it not be fair to simply point out that while most of the Founding Fathers were Christians some of them were Deists and Unitarians?
“Put your pants back on, I admitted no such thing.”?
“So.... could you be reasoned out of your belief in God?”
No, I couldn’t. You are with your reply, again equating my belief in God with your belief in evolution. They are different things yet similar. You claim that evolution is true based on conclusive, physical evidence, I’m sure. If that is the case, your claim is incorrect. There is no conclusive evidence for evolution from one species to another. There is also no photographic or scientific evidence of God as such, so my belief in God comes from observation of the world around me and the testimony of early believers. You may not believe that your trust in evolution could be categorized as ‘faith’ or ‘religion’, but just because you don’t believe it does not make it an incorrect analysis.
Evolutionists believe, not because they see (since there is nothing to see). They believe out of an abundance of misinformation given by misguided “scientists” who have passed beliefs and the equivalant of old-wives tales along for a couple of generations now. Belief in Biblical Creation has stood the test of time and scientists have been unable to disqualify the validity of the Genesis account.
(No pants were removed in the posting of this reply)
Your problem here is that belief in evolution is not limited to a bunch of drug crazed evo-athiest, Obamabots on FR that you think are gleefgully fabricating false science for the purposes of tugging on God's nose hairs. Christianities largest denomination, with a billion (with a "B") Roman Catholic Church supports Theistic Evolution as do many of the Catholics on FR. As so eloquently states by cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI in "In the Beginning...." A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall;
It says that the Bible is not a natural science textbook, nor does it intend to be such. It is a religious book, and consequently one cannot obtain information about the natural sciences from it. One cannot get from it a scientific explanation of how the world arose; one can only glean religious experience from it. Anything else is an image and a way of describing things whose aim is to make profound realities graspable to human beings. One must distinguish between the form of portrayal and the content that is portrayed. The form would have been chosen from what was understandable at the time -- from the images which surrounded the people who lived then, which they used in speaking and in thinking, and thanks to which they were able to understand the greater realities. And only the reality that shines through these images would be what was intended and what was truly enduring. Thus Scripture would not wish to inform us about how the different species of plant life gradually appeared or how the sun and the moon and the stars were established. Its purpose ultimately would be to say one thing: God created the world.
So be careful whom you call an idiot. That group includes many who are vastly your intellectual superior.
“Would it not be fair to simply point out that while most of the Founding Fathers were Christians some of them were Deists and Unitarians?”
Would it not be fair to point out the entire body of statements of the founders relating to God, the importance of the scriptures and Christianity in the founding of our country instead of cherry-picking from their words and others words about them?
Would it not be fair to point out the stated beliefs of the owner of freerepublic when asking that the atheists and evolutionists that post on this site be respectful of the same?
I’m not asking anyone to change their beliefs. I just think it would be nice if the Evos and Atheists were respectful of Christians while on this site. I don’t go to DU and slam you guys.
This post epitomizes your misunderstanding of those who do not completely agree with you. Catholics believe in Theistic Evolution, commonly referred to Intelligent Design, in which God used the process of evolution that He created to raise man. You contend that this in somehow anti or unChristian. As long as you and others take that position you can expect a hearty and sometime bumpy opposition here on FR.
Some were, some weren’t.
I didn’t see any pro God or Christianity quotes in your post from the ones who were.
*seething burning “hate”*
Time for the WAAAMMMMMBULANCE.
I readily acknowledge the influence that Christianity and the scriptures had on the founding of the country, but that doesn't take away from the fact that many of the more prominent Founding Fathers were influenced by Deism and Unitarianism. Isn't that fair?
Would it not be fair to point out the stated beliefs of the owner of freerepublic when asking that the atheists and evolutionists that post on this site be respectful of the same?
I would submit that a vigorous debate on the existence of God or the validity of evolution is not disrespectful. How does my pointing out that I have no belief in God or listing evidence of evolution show disrespect? I will agree that there are those on both sides of the debate who are disrespectful, of course, but that doesn't mean that we can't have a civil discussion.
Im not asking anyone to change their beliefs.
I think it should be pointed out that there are many Christians who are telling people that they need to do just that. Isn't it a Christian calling to convert people?
I just think it would be nice if the Evos and Atheists were respectful of Christians while on this site. I dont go to DU and slam you guys.
I will agree that "Evos" (an odd term...do you label one believes in plate tectonics a "Tecy"?) and atheists should be respectful of Christians while on (or off, for that matter) this site...with the caveat that if a Christian insults me without cause (as has happened before) I should feel free to throw it back in his face.
Do you agree that Christians should be respectful of Evos and atheists?
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