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Time for Civil Disobedience
formosa | 12/07/09 | Rebecca Wilson

Posted on 12/07/2009 5:46:35 AM PST by formosa

This is for discussion and ideas of what to do about impending coersed healthcare (cap and trade can be added as well). We must co-ordinate with other organizations and websites to take actions necessary to kill this bill.

The News does not report the publics contempt for all the many dictatorial and life altering sections of this bill. As a matter of fact, not much of the public actually know what is in this beast. But we do know the vast majority of the public do not want it.

Some of my ideas are contacting The Chamber of Commerces across the country, the Small Business Association along with many web sites to create a strategy. Marches and phone calls don't seem to working. Also contacting doctors for the plan would work very strongly to our advantage as well.

We basically need to shut down as much of the country as possible (with the exceptions of emergency rooms). We either pay a small price now, or a much higher price later. The small businesses in this country will not last through the healthcare debacle, and then add cap and trade that may possibly be enforced through the EPA and we will see unemployment numbers like we have never seen before.

I've never attempted to organize anything like this and would love to have your suggustions and advice on how to make it happen.


TOPICS: Government; Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: action; civildisobedience; goverment; government; health; insurrection; nationalstrike; obamacare
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We will take the risk now or perhaps suffer irreparable damage later. I will be out for a while but will be back to read and respond to suggestions.
1 posted on 12/07/2009 5:46:36 AM PST by formosa
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To: EternalVigilance; Candor7; blam; Nachum; SunkenCiv

*ping*


2 posted on 12/07/2009 5:50:17 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: formosa
“We basically need to shut down as much of the country as possible.”

I'd say Obama is beating you to it.

3 posted on 12/07/2009 5:52:36 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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To: formosa

You have to remember Lek Walesa. HIS idea was for the entire country to ‘walk off the job’ at the same time.

With the very successful “Solidarity” movement in Poland, you could not use the phone, read a paper, catch a bus, buy groceries, get a plumber, turn on a faucet, run ANY electrical device, get a cab, get a train, haul goods, proceed with ANY construction, get your child into a school room, load/unload a ship or freight car, and on and on... etc.... he brought THAT country to a screeching halt!!!

AND when EVERYONE agreed to ‘COME OUT’ together…on the same day at the same time…. they were heard!!!


4 posted on 12/07/2009 5:56:05 AM PST by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think. " Adolph Hitler)
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To: SMARTY

Unfortunaely, I think there are still too many true believers (in Obama), government employees, welfare freeloaders, illegal immigrants, and other who depend on the government to make a walkout effective. still, it would be worth a try and something my familt, friends and I would participate in.


5 posted on 12/07/2009 6:01:53 AM PST by clintonh8r (Oath Keeper and Manhattan Declaration signer)
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To: clintonh8r
What you say is true, but just remember WE are the ones keeping the lights on and doing the heavy lifting ... literally!!!!!

If every dentist, shop worker, traffic cop, teacher, secretary, receptionist, construction worker, electrician, plumber, machinist, truck driver,administrator, engineer,etc. would get the message and act, it would work. Believe me, the stoppage WOULD be noticed!

6 posted on 12/07/2009 6:06:19 AM PST by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think. " Adolph Hitler)
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To: SMARTY
That would be a great thing to see in this country. Washington needs to understand they are there to serve us, not vice verse.

Also we need to make sure that we articulate all the points in this bill that are not being discussed. Such as Universal Health ID card, the fact the government will have excess to all records, not just medical. They will be able to access personal bank accounts and take money, audit employers and even limit what coverage will be available to you through private insurance and there is much more.

Items such as the above must be discussed and I've yet to hear one Republican bring these issues to the for front. Instead they are trying to compromise about abortion and such when they should be hitting the networks and the streets in their home stats and coordinating with their governor's on how to kill this whole thing. Their actions are absurd and unintelligent. I begin to wonder if they are on our side at all.

7 posted on 12/07/2009 6:06:44 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: formosa
Just get 20, maybe 30% of the truckers to shut down. That would put a stop to many things.

Create a strike fund for them, funded by concerned Americans.

Voila.

8 posted on 12/07/2009 6:07:04 AM PST by flying_bullet (El Conservo tribe member)
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To: formosa

DON’T wonder, because they are NOT on our side, or things would not be as critical as they have become.

It didn’t get this way overnight!


9 posted on 12/07/2009 6:08:53 AM PST by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think. " Adolph Hitler)
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To: formosa

I have been on the verge for several weeks of asking FR directly whether a call for civil disobedience, or even a
serious discussion of it, would be possible to post on FR.
I still don’t know and neither do you, as this thread is only 15 minutes old.Maybe no Admin Mod. has seen it yet.
I’ve thought for some time that the by now obvious relentlessness of this Adminstration, which still seems to think it has a REVOLUTIONARY MANDATE by ‘winning’ 52% of the vote, will only wake up to the mood of the country as a whole when they are effectively shut down, in a way they haven’t seen yet. They contemptuously dismissed hundreds of thousands in DC on 9-12——they CAN’T dismiss 10 or 20 million in DC and all across America. If they do, they risk starting a civil war. They know this, and maybe they actually are willing to test the waters and see how it goes.
It will be their mistake if they do that. Things will need to get a bit worse before we get a REAL majority on our side (60 million) willing to risk a lot more than they have now.
And please , forget the idea of enlisting the Chambers of Commerce and the SBA to come on over or do anything meaningful-—I belong to a CHamber, and while it’s true the National C of C has been dissed by Obambi, and the SBA probably bought off, they carry NO political weight with any constituency but the actual numbers of people who belong to them.


10 posted on 12/07/2009 6:09:01 AM PST by supremedoctrine ("The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."--Tom Waits)
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To: SMARTY

So think about who does what in this country. The Democrats have the government jobs, post offices, schools, gas stations, many clerical jobs. What essential segment would would the conservatives shut down?


11 posted on 12/07/2009 6:11:11 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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To: 1776 Reborn

You are quibbling.


12 posted on 12/07/2009 6:12:51 AM PST by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think. " Adolph Hitler)
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To: formosa
If I walk off my job, it effects an entire school District. I shut down my servers and leave, they have no phones, no e-mail, no Internet, no Intranet, and no file share service.

If I change all of my passwords before doing it, even my junior techs could bring it all back on-line.

I'm in. Let's do it...

13 posted on 12/07/2009 6:13:22 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III)
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To: formosa
The economy may shut things down for you:

Deflationary Economic Depression 2010, Ready Or Not Here It Comes!

14 posted on 12/07/2009 6:13:26 AM PST by blam
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To: SMARTY

An answer would be nice Smarty!


15 posted on 12/07/2009 6:14:11 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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To: flying_bullet

Aren’t most truckers unionized? It would seem that they would be the most difficult. I could be wrong, but I am sure that at least some are independent.


16 posted on 12/07/2009 6:18:55 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: 1776 Reborn
What essential segment would would the conservatives shut down?

Revenue to those above you mentioned. Inconvenience to those on the dole (no goods to buy from shops that are closed, or from distribution companies/truckers who say "no more").

Not all government employees are dems, but the majority of them, at least in the civilian sector, are.

17 posted on 12/07/2009 6:21:52 AM PST by IYAS9YAS (The townhalls were going great until the oPods showed up.)
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To: 1776 Reborn
You are involving yourself in the SAME logic chopping and numbers BS that our so called political leaders have been dillydallying with up to now and which is exactly the reaction Liberals planned and need from us to achieve their goal.

We cannot keep equivocating and endlessly weighing minor and unrelated facts when the time is passed for thinking ... we are NOW at the place where ALL the necessary facts are IN. And none of the facts we have are agreeable to us. NONE!!

NOW we know enough to ACT. The time is OVER for slicing and dicing all the various ‘if’s’, ‘and’s’ and maybe’s.

There are more than enough of us and enough of us who are thou roughly URINATED at this whole sham to make a statement. Waiting for the right moment and ALL the ducks in a row, has got us where we are now!

That's how I see it.

18 posted on 12/07/2009 6:22:44 AM PST by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think. " Adolph Hitler)
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To: formosa

Getting truck drivers to shut down for any period of time would be pretty difficult. The independents can’t afford to park their trucks and the national truck lines can get all the drivers they want in this poor economy.


19 posted on 12/07/2009 6:23:42 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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To: formosa

Your suggestion iis in line with many, including hundreds of thousands of religious leaders who have signed the Manhatten Project.
The time is fast approaching when tens of thousands of citizens will take to the streets not simply to march but to openly violate the law in an effort to force the government to stop its mad rush to Communism.
There are profound risks including military and police opression of citizens. Thousands of law officers and military have taken a pledge not to fire upon protesting citizens when ordered to do so by superiors.
Civil disobedience includes a willingness, indeed an insistence, to accept the consequences of law breaking. Court appearances, fines and imprisonment are a necessary concomitant of civil disobedience.
These are dire times. We must act with clear and precise motives. A million people in the streets of DC was not enough to impress the tyrants who seek our supression. Stronger tactics are required.
I advocate the precise procedures of Ghandi and
Martin Luther King. Nonviolence is the only sure way to express extreme dissatisfaction without causing a backlash of slaughter. The mountains of guns and ammunition stockpiled by patriots does not bode well for our nation. If we are to insist that we are, in fact, a Christian nation, we must act the part. Personal sacrifice and martyrdom have a higher ethical calling than killing, particularly when brother is cast against brother. Let us not engage in another Civil War with all its attendant horrors. Better to rot in jail in protest.
The time may come when all is lost and there is no hope of civil society. That time is not now. Let us be uncompromising in our principles and moral in our tactics.


20 posted on 12/07/2009 6:23:56 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (He is the son of soulless slavers, not the son of soulful slaves.)
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To: supremedoctrine
The Chamber of Commerce and the SBA must realize that it is to their advantage to go along. It's their constituents that will be most harmed by these policies. They need to be convinced of this or their members will leave in droves or go out of business. Just because they get government funding or buyoff’s now will no save them from nonexistence when businesses dry up.
21 posted on 12/07/2009 6:24:33 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: formosa

An armed march on Washington DC would be a start. I would be willing to bet that 2 million armed citzens encircling the capitol would get more attention than the last march! Peacefully of course...


22 posted on 12/07/2009 6:24:40 AM PST by Errant (`)
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To: SMARTY

“the time is passed for thinking ...”

Now that should work out real well! ;-)


23 posted on 12/07/2009 6:26:52 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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To: SMARTY

As a part of the Tea Party movement, I have a lot vested in this reassertion of my constitutional rights. So do millions of others. If we pinpoint a day and a particular action of civil disobediance, these folks will follow it. I agree that it needs to be a on a State level to inform the States that we will not bow down to federal encroachment.


24 posted on 12/07/2009 6:27:45 AM PST by Vizbiz
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To: Amos the Prophet

I’m not calling for armed resistance. This is walking off the job as a way to show discontent that our most basic rights are being violated by a small group of individuals whose whishes are to treated as masters.


25 posted on 12/07/2009 6:29:02 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: Errant

I have nothing against being armed but it is a last resort after all peaceful and rational means have been exhausted against the rule of tyrants.


26 posted on 12/07/2009 6:31:27 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: formosa
As I have stated for four years now all legal business’ should ban together and refuse to offer the IRS any information until all illegals are documented and audited.
27 posted on 12/07/2009 6:32:16 AM PST by jetson
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To: clintonh8r

That’s the point. Those you speak of rely on us for their existence. Without the rest of us they starve and die. They need to understand that no one is obligated to support them or cultural marxism. Just as no doctor is legally obligated to lend them support should they fall down or have a heart attack.


28 posted on 12/07/2009 6:35:30 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: formosa
It would be a peaceful demonstration. I'm not advocating violence only a demonstration of potential force and displeasure of our federal leaders continueing to overstep their mandate.
29 posted on 12/07/2009 6:37:15 AM PST by Errant (`)
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To: Errant

If you bring a gun to a fight someone is likely to be shot.


30 posted on 12/07/2009 6:40:15 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (He is the son of soulless slavers, not the son of soulful slaves.)
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To: jetson

I agree with you 100%. My personal opinion (and I hate to sound like a nut, yet in the light of recent events) I believe the government allowed this to happen as a means to sow discontent and break down society. This is one of the ways cultural marxism works to destroy society so that they can rebuild their own little piece of hell.


31 posted on 12/07/2009 6:44:03 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: flying_bullet

“Create a strike fund for them, funded by concerned Americans.”

That would be millions and millions of dollars. This country utterly depends on truckers for everything!


32 posted on 12/07/2009 6:45:22 AM PST by vanilla swirl (Maranatha!)
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To: 1776 Reborn
In a CAREFUL reading of the statement, you would see I mean that Conservatives have engaged themselves in MORE than ample consideration of the facts and reflected for many weeks on the information provided to us on this issue.

I think WE have spent more time considering the plan the the authors of the plan have spent writing it.

33 posted on 12/07/2009 6:47:55 AM PST by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think. " Adolph Hitler)
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To: Amos the Prophet
An armed society demonstration is a polite society demonstration. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein
34 posted on 12/07/2009 6:48:47 AM PST by Errant (`)
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To: SMARTY

There are less that 12 months to identify candidates to run and win in the elections next year. Why waste time in trying to organize a general strike which will only piss off everyone of ANY political persuasion and portray conservatives as crazier than the people we want to replace?


35 posted on 12/07/2009 6:53:47 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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To: formosa

The bill is flat-out unconstitutional. Approach its passage from that angle.

Methinks the biggest under-recognized problem with it is the massive 4th Amendment violation: the feds will seize/coerce everyone’s PRIVATE health records, which currently they have no power/right to short of a warrant.

You want a “shutdown”? Get thousands of people to file injunctions against seizure of their health records. Smother the courts.


36 posted on 12/07/2009 6:58:53 AM PST by ctdonath2 (It from fit.)
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To: ctdonath2
Smother the courts.

One of the first things our politicians cut for budget reasons was was the judicial system. Think about it................
37 posted on 12/07/2009 7:02:10 AM PST by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: SMARTY

The remarkable thing about Solidarity was that it started with the unions. Here, our unions wouldn’t do something like that. Requires too much work and they would want to be paid for it.


38 posted on 12/07/2009 7:11:22 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: ctdonath2

There is nothing in the constitution at all that gives the right to even write a bill such as this. But in order to take it before the Supreme Court it has to pass. I feel we should let them know they should never even attempt to write a bill such as this again. We must take back our constitution now or they will continue these attempts each time our back is turned.

We’ve allowed it over and over and said nothing. I think the time has come to let them know that we are the ones whom the contitution was meant to protect. It was not written to give them unlimited power but to limit it. Plus one never knows how some fool without a copy of Webster’s might interpret that document.


39 posted on 12/07/2009 7:11:29 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: 1776 Reborn

Gas stations? Most gas stations are small businesses.


40 posted on 12/07/2009 7:15:42 AM PST by numberonepal (Don't Even Think About Treading On Me)
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To: formosa
Until we find courage/anger to do more, continue the local tea party events, faxing and calling your representatives and discussing the issues with family, friends and neighbors. It's working as the MSM derogatory comments have shown.

All politics is local - Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr.

41 posted on 12/07/2009 7:28:04 AM PST by Errant (`)
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To: 1776 Reborn
I don't agree. It would bring into focus just how firm and united Conservatives are in their opposition to the plans of our present leadership. Any Conservative ‘politician’ worth the name, would NOT want to be seen as standing outside that kind of national expression... He/She would find (and not have to look too hard for it) common ground with that kind of movement.

I am not saying people ought to just arbitrarily march in the streets (like a bunch of hippie malcontents) with some unspecified and fuzzy grievance about what is going on. I AM saying that any such demonstration should be definite in its message and marchers unified in their sentiment.

42 posted on 12/07/2009 7:36:07 AM PST by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think. " Adolph Hitler)
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To: formosa
Two words: Atlas Shrugged

43 posted on 12/07/2009 7:38:02 AM PST by Pollster1
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To: SMARTY

I think that is what the Tea Party protests are already.
Perhaps you really just want additional events.


44 posted on 12/07/2009 7:51:07 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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To: Pollster1
Two more words:


45 posted on 12/07/2009 8:06:12 AM PST by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead. Bonus tag line: FAIL 246, Obama 0)
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To: 1776 Reborn

This would be a single, NATIONWIDE, one day...”HEY, MSM TRY TO IGNORE ME NOW” event. I should add, a single event but-lasting as long as it takes for the present ‘President’ to respond PERSONALLY


46 posted on 12/07/2009 8:18:27 AM PST by SMARTY ("What luck for rulers that men do not think. " Adolph Hitler)
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To: formosa

We can do something or let them kill us.

We still have time but it is fleeing rapidly.

The term,”Do or die.” will soon, actually it does now, have a literal meaning.

We hold not only our but our children’s future in our hands.

What will we do? I believe that I know the answer but.....


47 posted on 12/07/2009 8:27:41 AM PST by sport
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To: Amos the Prophet

>>If you bring a gun to a fight someone is likely to be shot.<<

And if you don’t and the other guy does, you’ll be dead! For now, I will civilly disobey ANY order from Versailles on the Potomac that requires me to fund murder and child molestation. I have already told my wife that I will quit my job, rather than pay for abortion.

If it gets worse, then I’ll rethink civil disobedience.


48 posted on 12/07/2009 10:06:33 AM PST by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: Errant

Maybe there is a way that we can form an interconnection of the different tea parties and come up with some fliers to hand out to the public regarding certain points in the health care bill that are not being discussed and point out what the implications are. I’d be happy to do the research and create the flier.

We can also include cap and trade. It’s what we aren’t hearing that makes me the angriest and I believe it will drum up a great deal of discontent among the general public once it gets out there. I’d be more than willing to foot the cost of printing up the flyers for the Virginia Tidewater area.

If anyone is interested please contact me.


49 posted on 12/07/2009 11:41:20 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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To: Pollster1

Couldn’t agree with you more. Everytime Reid or Polosi opens their mouths it makes me think of those villians. The rhetoric is almost the same.


50 posted on 12/07/2009 11:45:03 AM PST by formosa (Formosa)
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