Skip to comments.Time for Civil Disobedience
Posted on 12/07/2009 5:46:35 AM PST by formosa
This is for discussion and ideas of what to do about impending coersed healthcare (cap and trade can be added as well). We must co-ordinate with other organizations and websites to take actions necessary to kill this bill.
The News does not report the publics contempt for all the many dictatorial and life altering sections of this bill. As a matter of fact, not much of the public actually know what is in this beast. But we do know the vast majority of the public do not want it.
Some of my ideas are contacting The Chamber of Commerces across the country, the Small Business Association along with many web sites to create a strategy. Marches and phone calls don't seem to working. Also contacting doctors for the plan would work very strongly to our advantage as well.
We basically need to shut down as much of the country as possible (with the exceptions of emergency rooms). We either pay a small price now, or a much higher price later. The small businesses in this country will not last through the healthcare debacle, and then add cap and trade that may possibly be enforced through the EPA and we will see unemployment numbers like we have never seen before.
I've never attempted to organize anything like this and would love to have your suggustions and advice on how to make it happen.
I'd say Obama is beating you to it.
You have to remember Lek Walesa. HIS idea was for the entire country to walk off the job at the same time.
With the very successful Solidarity movement in Poland, you could not use the phone, read a paper, catch a bus, buy groceries, get a plumber, turn on a faucet, run ANY electrical device, get a cab, get a train, haul goods, proceed with ANY construction, get your child into a school room, load/unload a ship or freight car, and on and on... etc.... he brought THAT country to a screeching halt!!!
AND when EVERYONE agreed to COME OUT together on the same day at the same time . they were heard!!!
Unfortunaely, I think there are still too many true believers (in Obama), government employees, welfare freeloaders, illegal immigrants, and other who depend on the government to make a walkout effective. still, it would be worth a try and something my familt, friends and I would participate in.
If every dentist, shop worker, traffic cop, teacher, secretary, receptionist, construction worker, electrician, plumber, machinist, truck driver,administrator, engineer,etc. would get the message and act, it would work. Believe me, the stoppage WOULD be noticed!
Also we need to make sure that we articulate all the points in this bill that are not being discussed. Such as Universal Health ID card, the fact the government will have excess to all records, not just medical. They will be able to access personal bank accounts and take money, audit employers and even limit what coverage will be available to you through private insurance and there is much more.
Items such as the above must be discussed and I've yet to hear one Republican bring these issues to the for front. Instead they are trying to compromise about abortion and such when they should be hitting the networks and the streets in their home stats and coordinating with their governor's on how to kill this whole thing. Their actions are absurd and unintelligent. I begin to wonder if they are on our side at all.
Create a strike fund for them, funded by concerned Americans.
DON’T wonder, because they are NOT on our side, or things would not be as critical as they have become.
It didn’t get this way overnight!
I have been on the verge for several weeks of asking FR directly whether a call for civil disobedience, or even a
serious discussion of it, would be possible to post on FR.
I still don’t know and neither do you, as this thread is only 15 minutes old.Maybe no Admin Mod. has seen it yet.
I’ve thought for some time that the by now obvious relentlessness of this Adminstration, which still seems to think it has a REVOLUTIONARY MANDATE by ‘winning’ 52% of the vote, will only wake up to the mood of the country as a whole when they are effectively shut down, in a way they haven’t seen yet. They contemptuously dismissed hundreds of thousands in DC on 9-12——they CAN’T dismiss 10 or 20 million in DC and all across America. If they do, they risk starting a civil war. They know this, and maybe they actually are willing to test the waters and see how it goes.
It will be their mistake if they do that. Things will need to get a bit worse before we get a REAL majority on our side (60 million) willing to risk a lot more than they have now.
And please , forget the idea of enlisting the Chambers of Commerce and the SBA to come on over or do anything meaningful-—I belong to a CHamber, and while it’s true the National C of C has been dissed by Obambi, and the SBA probably bought off, they carry NO political weight with any constituency but the actual numbers of people who belong to them.
So think about who does what in this country. The Democrats have the government jobs, post offices, schools, gas stations, many clerical jobs. What essential segment would would the conservatives shut down?
You are quibbling.
If I change all of my passwords before doing it, even my junior techs could bring it all back on-line.
I'm in. Let's do it...
An answer would be nice Smarty!
Aren’t most truckers unionized? It would seem that they would be the most difficult. I could be wrong, but I am sure that at least some are independent.
Revenue to those above you mentioned. Inconvenience to those on the dole (no goods to buy from shops that are closed, or from distribution companies/truckers who say "no more").
Not all government employees are dems, but the majority of them, at least in the civilian sector, are.
We cannot keep equivocating and endlessly weighing minor and unrelated facts when the time is passed for thinking ... we are NOW at the place where ALL the necessary facts are IN. And none of the facts we have are agreeable to us. NONE!!
NOW we know enough to ACT. The time is OVER for slicing and dicing all the various ‘if’s’, ‘and’s’ and maybe’s.
There are more than enough of us and enough of us who are thou roughly URINATED at this whole sham to make a statement. Waiting for the right moment and ALL the ducks in a row, has got us where we are now!
That's how I see it.
Getting truck drivers to shut down for any period of time would be pretty difficult. The independents can’t afford to park their trucks and the national truck lines can get all the drivers they want in this poor economy.
Your suggestion iis in line with many, including hundreds of thousands of religious leaders who have signed the Manhatten Project.
The time is fast approaching when tens of thousands of citizens will take to the streets not simply to march but to openly violate the law in an effort to force the government to stop its mad rush to Communism.
There are profound risks including military and police opression of citizens. Thousands of law officers and military have taken a pledge not to fire upon protesting citizens when ordered to do so by superiors.
Civil disobedience includes a willingness, indeed an insistence, to accept the consequences of law breaking. Court appearances, fines and imprisonment are a necessary concomitant of civil disobedience.
These are dire times. We must act with clear and precise motives. A million people in the streets of DC was not enough to impress the tyrants who seek our supression. Stronger tactics are required.
I advocate the precise procedures of Ghandi and
Martin Luther King. Nonviolence is the only sure way to express extreme dissatisfaction without causing a backlash of slaughter. The mountains of guns and ammunition stockpiled by patriots does not bode well for our nation. If we are to insist that we are, in fact, a Christian nation, we must act the part. Personal sacrifice and martyrdom have a higher ethical calling than killing, particularly when brother is cast against brother. Let us not engage in another Civil War with all its attendant horrors. Better to rot in jail in protest.
The time may come when all is lost and there is no hope of civil society. That time is not now. Let us be uncompromising in our principles and moral in our tactics.
An armed march on Washington DC would be a start. I would be willing to bet that 2 million armed citzens encircling the capitol would get more attention than the last march! Peacefully of course...
“the time is passed for thinking ...”
Now that should work out real well! ;-)
As a part of the Tea Party movement, I have a lot vested in this reassertion of my constitutional rights. So do millions of others. If we pinpoint a day and a particular action of civil disobediance, these folks will follow it. I agree that it needs to be a on a State level to inform the States that we will not bow down to federal encroachment.
I’m not calling for armed resistance. This is walking off the job as a way to show discontent that our most basic rights are being violated by a small group of individuals whose whishes are to treated as masters.
I have nothing against being armed but it is a last resort after all peaceful and rational means have been exhausted against the rule of tyrants.
That’s the point. Those you speak of rely on us for their existence. Without the rest of us they starve and die. They need to understand that no one is obligated to support them or cultural marxism. Just as no doctor is legally obligated to lend them support should they fall down or have a heart attack.
If you bring a gun to a fight someone is likely to be shot.
I agree with you 100%. My personal opinion (and I hate to sound like a nut, yet in the light of recent events) I believe the government allowed this to happen as a means to sow discontent and break down society. This is one of the ways cultural marxism works to destroy society so that they can rebuild their own little piece of hell.
“Create a strike fund for them, funded by concerned Americans.”
That would be millions and millions of dollars. This country utterly depends on truckers for everything!
I think WE have spent more time considering the plan the the authors of the plan have spent writing it.
There are less that 12 months to identify candidates to run and win in the elections next year. Why waste time in trying to organize a general strike which will only piss off everyone of ANY political persuasion and portray conservatives as crazier than the people we want to replace?
The bill is flat-out unconstitutional. Approach its passage from that angle.
Methinks the biggest under-recognized problem with it is the massive 4th Amendment violation: the feds will seize/coerce everyone’s PRIVATE health records, which currently they have no power/right to short of a warrant.
You want a “shutdown”? Get thousands of people to file injunctions against seizure of their health records. Smother the courts.
The remarkable thing about Solidarity was that it started with the unions. Here, our unions wouldn’t do something like that. Requires too much work and they would want to be paid for it.
There is nothing in the constitution at all that gives the right to even write a bill such as this. But in order to take it before the Supreme Court it has to pass. I feel we should let them know they should never even attempt to write a bill such as this again. We must take back our constitution now or they will continue these attempts each time our back is turned.
We’ve allowed it over and over and said nothing. I think the time has come to let them know that we are the ones whom the contitution was meant to protect. It was not written to give them unlimited power but to limit it. Plus one never knows how some fool without a copy of Webster’s might interpret that document.
Gas stations? Most gas stations are small businesses.
All politics is local - Thomas P. O'Neill, Jr.
I am not saying people ought to just arbitrarily march in the streets (like a bunch of hippie malcontents) with some unspecified and fuzzy grievance about what is going on. I AM saying that any such demonstration should be definite in its message and marchers unified in their sentiment.
I think that is what the Tea Party protests are already.
Perhaps you really just want additional events.
This would be a single, NATIONWIDE, one day...âHEY, MSM TRY TO IGNORE ME NOWâ event. I should add, a single event but-lasting as long as it takes for the present ‘President’ to respond PERSONALLY
We can do something or let them kill us.
We still have time but it is fleeing rapidly.
The term,”Do or die.” will soon, actually it does now, have a literal meaning.
We hold not only our but our children’s future in our hands.
What will we do? I believe that I know the answer but.....
>>If you bring a gun to a fight someone is likely to be shot.<<
And if you don’t and the other guy does, you’ll be dead! For now, I will civilly disobey ANY order from Versailles on the Potomac that requires me to fund murder and child molestation. I have already told my wife that I will quit my job, rather than pay for abortion.
If it gets worse, then I’ll rethink civil disobedience.
Maybe there is a way that we can form an interconnection of the different tea parties and come up with some fliers to hand out to the public regarding certain points in the health care bill that are not being discussed and point out what the implications are. I’d be happy to do the research and create the flier.
We can also include cap and trade. It’s what we aren’t hearing that makes me the angriest and I believe it will drum up a great deal of discontent among the general public once it gets out there. I’d be more than willing to foot the cost of printing up the flyers for the Virginia Tidewater area.
If anyone is interested please contact me.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Everytime Reid or Polosi opens their mouths it makes me think of those villians. The rhetoric is almost the same.
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