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Christmas at the U.S. Post Office - Snowmen or Mary, take your pick
Examiner.com ^ | Dec. 23, 2009 | Réne Girard

Posted on 12/23/2009 12:38:18 PM PST by RGirard

The U.S. Post Office is especially busy during the Christmas season. The lines are longer than usual as people wait patiently to send carefully packaged gifts to loved ones across the country, as well as Christmas cards to those both near and far. Business is good, albeit frantic, and once you get up to the counter you have a choice when it comes to stamps: Snowmen or Mary, take your pick.

The question may be phrased differently depending on which location you visit, but these were my choices when I asked for Holiday Stamps ...

I later discovered that the U.S. Postal service also offers Hanukkah stamps, Kwanzaa stamps, Eid stamps and a holiday pack of 2008 42-cent nutcracker stamps + 2-cent Nava-ho-ho-ho necklace stamps ...

Also, I'm a Protestant, so my natural instinct is to resist anything Catholic. I have had some Catholic friends ... so it's not the people as much as the institution I reject which exalts Mary and the Pope as if they were God himself. If my choice had been "Snowman or Jesus?" I would have of course said "Jesus!" ...

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: christmas; jesus; postoffice; stamps
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one of the pictures from the article
1 posted on 12/23/2009 12:38:19 PM PST by RGirard
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To: RGirard
so it's not the people as much as the institution I reject which exalts Mary and the Pope as if they were God himself.

The author's ignorance/arrogance led him directly were the Devil wanted him to go...to the secular.

2 posted on 12/23/2009 12:44:01 PM PST by frogjerk
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To: RGirard

“exalts Mary and the Pope as if they were God himself”
Except that Catholics don’t do that. We honor Mary, not worship her. Look at Mary’s Magnificat: “For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave;For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed” (Luke 1:48)

Besides, even if you’re allergice to what you think the Catholic Church teaches, you do realize that the birth of Christ automatically includes Mary, don’t you?


3 posted on 12/23/2009 12:48:38 PM PST by altoinprogress
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To: RGirard
The so called 'offensive to Protestants' Mary image.

Seems like someone's panties are in a wad, that is a pretty universal Christian image.

4 posted on 12/23/2009 12:50:16 PM PST by mnehring
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To: altoinprogress; frogjerk; RGirard
Here's the stamp in question:

It has the Christ Child for goodness sake!

5 posted on 12/23/2009 12:52:15 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Pyro7480

Some people look for excuses to be offended. I think they believe it gives them an extra special pious crown.


6 posted on 12/23/2009 12:53:42 PM PST by mnehring
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To: mnehring

LOL — going postal about the stamp selection. Just curious: Do other countries put out special holiday stamps? To me, a stamp’s a stamp. A stamp with the US flag is perfectly fine for mailing everything from wedding invitations to the check for the parking ticket fine, and yes, Christmas (Protestant or Catholic!) cards.


7 posted on 12/23/2009 12:55:43 PM PST by kittykat77
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To: RGirard

Ok. Next year we’ll go with the baby Jesus break dancing in hip hop gear in order to cut Mary out of the picture.

MORON!!!


8 posted on 12/23/2009 1:00:31 PM PST by The Toll
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To: RGirard

I bought my stamps at the grocery store and the girl told me the choices were “either an angel or a snowman.” “Let me see the angel,” I said. She showed it to me and I said, “That’s the Mother of God. I’ll take those, Merry Christmas!” She looked stunned.


9 posted on 12/23/2009 1:03:46 PM PST by browniexyz
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To: browniexyz
Good for you!

Peoples' ignorance never fails to amaze me. I was told by an art teacher that one of her very bright female art students at the University argued that centuries of Christian European Art were male chauvinist and sexist. My friend said, "What gives? Their favorite subject was along these lines "(pointing to a Madonna and Child.)

"Yeah," said the student. "But the baby is always a boy."

10 posted on 12/23/2009 1:18:23 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Kyrie eleison (40 x))
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To: Mrs. Don-o

oh my! lol sounds like that student was not “very bright”, then again - how sad that she truly didn’t know. That’s the point, our society has taken Jesus out or reduced him to just “a child”


11 posted on 12/23/2009 1:23:18 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: RGirard
. so it's not the people as much as the institution I reject which exalts Mary and the Pope as if they were God himself.

Nonsense. Is Exodus 20:16 still in your Bible? It's in mine ...

Dueteronomy 5:20 is still in there, too.

Shame on you.

12 posted on 12/23/2009 1:23:40 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: RGirard

I guess the author was blind as I saw Jesus in the stamp with his mother, Mary.

Idiot


13 posted on 12/23/2009 1:26:03 PM PST by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: RGirard
reduced him to just “a child”

Do tell ... what, generally, do you think Our Lord looked like on the day he was born?

14 posted on 12/23/2009 1:26:30 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: KosmicKitty
Idiot or "professionally offended".

If an artist is going to depict Jesus' birth or infancy, Jesus will look like the infant that he was.

If an artist is going to depict Jesus' Death or Resurrection, Jesus will look like the ~33 year old man that he was.

Expecting otherwise, or getting offended by it, is folly.

15 posted on 12/23/2009 1:28:42 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: KosmicKitty

read the article and maybe you’ll have a better understanding - unless you just like to call people names


16 posted on 12/23/2009 1:30:22 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: RGirard
True! The "brights" are often so obtuse! Yet, it was God, the Second Person of the Trinity, who "reduced" Himself to a Child. Reduced Himself, amazingly, to an embryo.

If we understood the significance of the Divine One's vesting Himself in a fragile human nature, we and our society would be radically different.

17 posted on 12/23/2009 1:34:24 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Kyrie eleison (40 x))
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To: RGirard

We call Mary, “The Blessed Virgin Mary” or “The Blessed Mother” or just “The Virgin Mary.” Catholics pray to her, Catholics honor her as the mother of Jesus, but we don’t consider her to be God Himself.

Anyone who thinks we put the Pope on the same level as God doesn’t know jack squat about Catholicism or Catholics. No one prays to the Pope. He is the Earthly head of the church and is considered to be a holy man but NOT a deity.


18 posted on 12/23/2009 1:52:29 PM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (A Jimmy Carter got us a Ronald Reagan.....a Barack Obama will get us a Sarah Palin)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Where does the Bible tell you to pray to anyone other than God?


19 posted on 12/23/2009 2:01:56 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: RGirard

Answer my question.


20 posted on 12/23/2009 2:04:56 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I think he looked like a Jewish baby.


21 posted on 12/23/2009 2:09:54 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: RGirard
Yeah! Exactly. And I bet when His mother held him, it looked sorta like this:

Except their skin was probably a bit darker. Trouble is, you let your FALSE notions about Catholic theology get in the way of buying CHRISTmas stamps on CHRISTmas.

I hope that between now and next CHRISTmas, you'll shed your false notions about Catholic theology, quit bearing false witness against your Catholic neighbours, and maybe ... just maybe, you'll see fit to buy CHRISTmas stamps instead of winterfest stamps.

22 posted on 12/23/2009 2:18:16 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: RGirard

Oh, for heavens sake. Mary is an integral part of the Christmas story.


23 posted on 12/23/2009 2:30:57 PM PST by dixjea
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To: ArrogantBustard

It amazes me how dimwitted, intellectually dull and moronic some folks can be.


24 posted on 12/23/2009 2:39:05 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: big'ol_freeper

I don’t think that he’s actually stupid ... but he has been led to believe some astonishingly stupid things.


25 posted on 12/23/2009 2:46:17 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I was kind enough to answer your question, so answer mine. Where in scripture are we instructed to pray to anyone other than God?


26 posted on 12/23/2009 2:47:38 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: RGirard

Where in scripture does it tell you scripture is the ONLY source of Truth and where in scripture does it tell you what makes up Holy Scripture?


27 posted on 12/23/2009 2:51:25 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: RGirard

Strange that The Madonna and Child would be one of the “””Holiday””” selections. I mean — at this time of the year, what are we celebrating? It is not as tho “Mother and Child” had anything to do with the true meaning of what we are celebrating.

Unless ——— would being there, in that manger, on that particular night, have anything to do with it?

</sarcasm>


28 posted on 12/23/2009 2:55:51 PM PST by Exit148 (Loose Change Founder. A little goes a long way!)
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To: RGirard
I don't believe the heresy called "sola scriptura", so asking for other folks (whether here or in Heaven) to pray for me doesn't have to be explicitly in Scripture. Nevertheless, St. Paul asks others to pray for him in Romans (15:30), and refers to it 2 Corinthians (1:11).

We do not, therefore, hesitate to ask our friends (whether in this life or the next) to pray to God on our behalf. Such has been the constant practice of the Church from the beginning.

It's possible that you interpret those passages differently from me. By protestant theology, that's certainly your right. What is NOT your right, either by protestant or Catholic theology is to impose your personal interpretation of Scripture on anyone else.

29 posted on 12/23/2009 2:59:00 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: RGirard
The difficulty here is in the word "pray." If you mean "address with the supreme honor due to God alone," nowhere in Scripture is that allowed with reference to anybody but God; it is forbidden by the First Commandment.

But with regard to intercessory prayer (joining with others in the One Body to love each other and pray for each other): yes, we love and pray for each other, both when we are living on this earth and when we have passed from this earth but are still alive in Christ.

This is the sense in which "prayer" is not only permitted, but highly precious in the eyes of God: we are united in Christ and praying for each other. And we never stop. Not even death stops us.

Even kindergarteners can understand that there's a huge difference between the Creator (God) and created beings (all the angels and saints, including you and me and Mary and Joseph and the Apostles and martyrs and our loved ones who have gone on before us.)

Will you pray for me?

30 posted on 12/23/2009 3:17:52 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: ArrogantBustard; big'ol_freeper

Paul asked living people to pray for him, not dead people. Jesus told his disciple they should pray to the Father. Other scripture invokes praying in Jesus’ name. Jesus is said to be our mediator who intercedes for us.

As far as I can tell from the scripture that is regarded by the majority of Christians, including myself, to be holy and God-breathed, I see nothing that would instruct anyone to pray to the dead or for the dead.

All of us impose our personal interpretation of Scripture on others, and that is not always a bad thing. For instance, we most likely view our interpretation of “thou shalt not kill” as worthy of imposition on every citizen in the United States. From our interpretation of scripture we may take a stand against abortion, not only for ourselves, but for others. Our personal view of scripture affects how we live, how we raise our children, how we vote ... no man is an island, nor should he live like one.


31 posted on 12/23/2009 3:27:47 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: RGirard
RE: Paul asked living people to pray for him, not dead people

LOL..FRiend...I dare say those in Heaven are QUITE a bit more alive than you or I.

32 posted on 12/23/2009 3:34:30 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: RGirard

You haven’t answered either of my questions. What is your basis for determining what is included as Holy Scripture and where in Holy Scripture does it tell you that Holy Scripture is the ONLY source of the Truth of Jesus Christ?


33 posted on 12/23/2009 3:36:15 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: RGirard

Personally; I believe Jesus was born in late September, and I don’t pay much attention to the holidays. I’m not getting wound up over a stamp, however. If I’m mailing a bill; sell me a stamp. End of story. Bigger fish to fry.


34 posted on 12/23/2009 3:44:37 PM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: RGirard

.

Mary does have a halo for some reason.

35 posted on 12/23/2009 3:49:03 PM PST by LowOiL ("I adore McCain, support him 100% and will do everything I can to support his reelection" S. Palin)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Sorry, I’m trying to work and wasn’t ignorning you. I didn’t determine what is the scripture and nowhere that I know of. Maybe you have extra-biblical writings that you regard as valid and God-breathed? I don’t. If someone presented me with something else and said it was at that same level I would be very skeptical. It would need to be in harmony with the scripture for me to accept it as divine truth.


36 posted on 12/23/2009 4:01:41 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yes ... What would you like prayer for Mrs. Don-o?


37 posted on 12/23/2009 4:06:50 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: RGirard

You missed my two points. First of all I was trying to get at the fact that nowhere in Scripture does it say that Scripture is the only source of Truth. The Church has always accepted Sacred Tradition as the other component of Divine Revelation. It was only after the Protestant Reformation that Sacred Tradition was conveniently rejected by a minority of Christians (today’s protestants). There is no basis in Scripture for Sola Scriptura. It is a post-Reformation creation.

The other point I was making is that the Scriptures also don’t tell you what books encompass Holy Scripture. The Canon of the Bible was determined by the same Catholic Church you revile against Only since the Protestant Reformation have some of those books of the Bible been redacted. If not for the Catholic Church you would have various sects including a hodge podge of other books that the Church rejected.

Hopefully my comments will draw you to a closer study of Holy Scripture as well as salvation history. Any such study, I am confident, will lead you home to the Church of the Apostles, founded by Jesus Christ and protected from error by the Holy Spirit..as promised by Christ.

I will pray for you to make that journey home.

Merry Christmas


38 posted on 12/23/2009 4:16:22 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: big'ol_freeper

That would be the Greek Orthodox church. I had a close relationship with a girl who was Greek and that was her religion. We had some very good conversations which compelled both of us to delve into the scripture for clarification and greater understanding. She could interpret the actual scripture even better than her professors at the theological institute she attended, and had such a pure heart that I doubt I will ever find a better teacher of the New Testament scripture.

I am confident that Martin Luther, the Catholic priest, was correct in protesting the corruption of the church. We obviously disagree but I will wish you a Merry Christmas as well.


39 posted on 12/23/2009 5:00:50 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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To: RGirard

Thank you for the Merry Christmas....

I would encourage you to embrace the Greek Orthodox Church if you felt a pull in that direction. The Greek Orthodox Church has direct and valid bishopric lineage directly to the Apostles and the Catholic Church recognizes the validity of that apostolic succession.

God Bless


40 posted on 12/23/2009 5:05:58 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: RGirard
Thank you!

For the well-being and redemption of my two sons, Ben (he's a Lance Corporal, USMC, at Al-Asad, Iraq) and Vanya (he's a 10th grader.)

You could throw in a good word for me, too.

:o)

41 posted on 12/23/2009 5:12:27 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: big'ol_freeper

“First of all I was trying to get at the fact that nowhere in Scripture does it say that Scripture is the only source of Truth. The Church has always accepted Sacred Tradition as the other component of Divine Revelation.”

But it does in 1 Timothy and you can see the mess that accepting “sacred tradition” made in the Jewish religion.


42 posted on 12/23/2009 5:15:55 PM PST by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: swmobuffalo

Nice mis-interpretation and stretch.

Sacred Tradition has nothing to do with Judaism. It has to do with the Revelation of Jesus Christ and the Apostles he appointed.


43 posted on 12/23/2009 5:44:24 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: RGirard
I am confident that Martin Luther, the Catholic priest, was correct in protesting the corruption of the church.

Can you determine a time in history when this corruption is supposed to have occurred?

44 posted on 12/23/2009 6:04:52 PM PST by Kells
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To: Kells

Yes in Luthers time the Church was very corrupt. Selling indulgences to get time off in hell was one example.The Medici Popes were terrible people in some cases.The church is run by men and men can always be corrupt , even Popes. Free will .


45 posted on 12/23/2009 6:17:20 PM PST by sonic109 (and...what are we going to do about it ? NOTHING ?..so shut up and take it !)
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To: Kells

The Church has had individually corrupt leaders and members such as Judas, but this did not corrupt “the Church” by altering Church doctrine. Luther claimed that Catholic Church doctrine had become corrupt but never could specify when this corruption was supposed to have taken place.


46 posted on 12/23/2009 6:25:37 PM PST by Kells
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To: RGirard

The Church has had individually corrupt leaders and members such as Judas, but this did not corrupt “the Church” by altering Church doctrine. Luther claimed that Catholic Church doctrine had become corrupt but never could specify when this corruption was supposed to have taken place.


47 posted on 12/23/2009 6:26:11 PM PST by Kells
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To: who knows what evil?

Personally I believe Jesus was born April 6th


48 posted on 12/23/2009 7:09:56 PM PST by dixjea
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To: RGirard
read the article and maybe you’ll have a better understanding - unless you just like to call people names

Honestly, I just like to call people names!

49 posted on 12/23/2009 7:13:37 PM PST by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: Kells

Corruption takes place over time ... just like with our Government, there may be particular dates in time that historians can refer to because of significant events, but when did our Government become corrupt? Impossible to say


50 posted on 12/23/2009 10:10:24 PM PST by RGirard ("If you read just one book this year ... " by An American Man)
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