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Cloward-Pivenís Inherent Self-Contradiction
self

Posted on 01/05/2010 4:31:08 PM PST by reasonisfaith

With enactment of their policies, liberals never fail to accomplish the opposite of their stated goal. It’s been said before, and here’s more proof.

Richard Cloward and Frances Piven are known for their strategy to overwhelm the welfare state with impossible demands in order to establish a crisis that would eventually bring down the entire government. At the point of collapse, an imaginary “better” government would be able to take over. Of course, their agenda was nothing more than another leftist scheme to establish a utopia…

So they activated themselves and trained many underlings—one of whom now occupies the White House—with the goal of increasing numbers of welfare recipients. The more people on welfare the better, according to their strategy. To be precise, Piven was using the poor for her own severely narcissistic fantasy.

Now, if you remember a little something about welfare, you’ll recall that it snares its victims into poverty, rather than rescuing them from it. And Frances Piven can write in her memoirs that she was responsible for diverting untold numbers of unsuspecting Americans (many of them blacks and Hispanics) into a life of welfare dependence and poverty. Think of it—their children and grandchildren were born into the gift of poverty, courtesy of Frances Piven.

“Go forth, and occupy the glorious housing projects we have provided for you,” was Piven’s directive to the objects of her experiment.

So there you have it. Piven devoted her life, as do all progressives, to the claim of wanting to “help” the poor. But she accomplished the precise opposite.

Generations of death, destruction and despair, thanks to Frances Piven and her followers.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Conspiracy; Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: bhofascism; clowardpiven; communism; corruption; democrats; economy; francespiven; liberalfascism; obama; politics; teaparty; vanity
It appears these liberal icons truly believe their own lies (to a large extent). I don’t know which truth would be more difficult for them to accept—the harm they’ve done to the poor with welfare policies, or any one of the many other forms of oppression forced upon their victims in the name of "progressivism."
1 posted on 01/05/2010 4:31:13 PM PST by reasonisfaith
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To: reasonisfaith
Of course it's a paradoxical and flawed strategy to begin with. Overload the welfare system and you get cutbacks and an austerity regime, not some breakthrough to socialism.

But is that really the strategy pursued by Obama today? Isn't it just more Chicago politics? Increase the number of clients and you increase your vote. Nothing about a system breakdown or a breakthrough to a new order, just big city politics as usual.

2 posted on 01/05/2010 4:36:11 PM PST by x
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To: reasonisfaith

“To be precise, Piven was using the poor for her own severely narcissistic fantasy.”

They all use the poor. That’s why the ghetto is still the ghetto. As big of a disaster now, if not bigger, than when Elvis sang about it.


3 posted on 01/05/2010 4:37:41 PM PST by A_Former_Democrat
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To: reasonisfaith

But you forget that liberals actually think that the poor are somehow better off if there are no rich.


4 posted on 01/05/2010 4:44:35 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The Second Amendment. Don't MAKE me use it.)
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To: x

The agenda of every leftist is driven at its deepest level by pride and envy.

If Piven herself were to be elected president, she would compromise her initial agenda in favor of maintaining personal power.

And although we can see this happening to some extent with Obama, he’s doing a pretty good job of sticking to the initial plan for system breakdown.


5 posted on 01/05/2010 4:46:58 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

I think you’re probably right, but I don’t understand it enough to know how it fits in with the rest of the picture.


6 posted on 01/05/2010 4:52:43 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: reasonisfaith
So, do you have the actual Cloward-Piven article in The Nation? I've seen descriptions and abstracts, but not the full article.

Cloward, Richard; Piven, Frances (May 2, 1966). "The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty". New York: The Nation.

7 posted on 01/05/2010 4:54:27 PM PST by Plutarch
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To: reasonisfaith

I don’t agree with the “victim” angle. People sit around on welfare because that’s what they do. Anyone can make that choice, just stop being responsible and let their personal dodo hit the fan. They can also make the choice to take care of themselves, there are no traps. Our own personal destiny is always up to us.


8 posted on 01/05/2010 4:57:10 PM PST by dajeeps
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To: reasonisfaith

It’s all about “equality”. They know that there is no way to make everyone rich so they will settle for making everyone else poor (except the liberal elite, of course).


9 posted on 01/05/2010 4:57:44 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The Second Amendment. Don't MAKE me use it.)
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To: Plutarch

I don’t have the article, but would like to see it. I’d also like to see the photo of Hillary with Cloward-Piven.

Let me know if you ever find them.


10 posted on 01/05/2010 4:58:09 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

It is not “that liberals actually think that the poor are somehow better off if there are no rich.” They think of the poor as different than they themselves are. A different class of people, with a lack of intelligence, education, wisdom, breeding, class AND the money to live well. But of course they will employ them to wash their cars, mow the lawns, or even build their houses. They simply do not want them occupying the social strata alongside THEM. The kindest thing is to allow them to settle for dependence, it is how they iz happiest. The bestest thing to does wit da po is gives dem direck shun and housin, with a o not they bees cuh luhd or jes white trash. Dats da fax


11 posted on 01/05/2010 4:59:14 PM PST by runninglips (All that is necessary for evil to triumph is Republicans to act like Liberals)
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To: dajeeps

You make a fair point.

But human nature is what it is. I believe welfare, to a very significant extent, discourages achievement and brings misery.

If this were not true, we wouldn’t have a reason to oppose it in the first place.


12 posted on 01/05/2010 5:02:17 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: runninglips

My above post is not to demean any class of people or race, it is truly what I believe liberals/socialists/Marxists/Democrats of today are motivated by. They want to protect those “lower” and unable to do for themselves.


13 posted on 01/05/2010 5:02:22 PM PST by runninglips (All that is necessary for evil to triumph is Republicans to act like Liberals)
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To: runninglips

Liberals are motivated by the desire to protect their view of themselves, and by their desire to feed their own envy.


14 posted on 01/05/2010 5:08:00 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: reasonisfaith

She had no intention of ever helping the poor. She wanted power over people, and it was falsely camouflaged as something that would help the common man. Make no mistake about it, people like Frances Piven had or have no more intention of helping people, than Elena Ceucescu did.


15 posted on 01/05/2010 5:08:14 PM PST by Gapplega
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To: reasonisfaith

Liberals believe it’s all about tearing down the injustice to build a better world. They are too stupid to see or understand or admit the utter inability of collectivism to “build” anything except destruction.

Leftists, however, know it’s nothing less than total war against the U.S. - the goal is simply to destroy the country, for international, global collectivist warfare purposes.

To Leftists, liberals are Stalin’s useful idiots, while liberals think Leftists are their Best Friends Forever. Seeing them together is like watching a rattlesnake hiding underneath a full-diapered, stinking toddler who’s screaming “no “.


16 posted on 01/05/2010 5:09:39 PM PST by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: runninglips

More on the motivation of Cloward-Piven.

Although they claim to oppose “greed,” Cloward-Piven (and others of their political persuasion) are themselves very greedy—greedy for intellect. That is, they are not happy with the intellect they have, and constantly want more. Not that they can obtain more—what I mean to say is that their activism is inspired by a state of mind which arises from a deep sense of resentment over their perception of their own intellectual deficits.


17 posted on 01/05/2010 5:12:51 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: reasonisfaith
Cloward-Piven

Is nothing more than slow-motion Anarchy

When there is finally the crisis.

Then the Statist collectivist elitist takeover.


18 posted on 01/05/2010 5:12:58 PM PST by Uriíel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: reasonisfaith

I don’t oppose the idea of safety nets, as long as it’s the state that is providing it because I don’t believe that the power to operate compulsory social programs is granted to the Federal govt in the Constitution. People can find themselves down on their luck and I think it is moral for the state to help them, can’t watch people starving in the streets.

I oppose the idea of it as a way of life, however, and that is what the C/P strategy is about. But they have to have people willing to sit there on it. My life is a story of rags to upper middle class and I didn’t get there by choosing to sit around on handouts all my life, nor did I ever take any, although as a young single mom at one point, I could have.


19 posted on 01/05/2010 5:18:21 PM PST by dajeeps
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To: Gapplega

Wanting to control others is big with liberals.


20 posted on 01/05/2010 5:18:33 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: Uri’el-2012

Sad but true.

The question remains—at the takeover, will Cloward-Piven be among those shot immediately, or will their murder at the hands of the dictator have to wait until later when, inevitably, they cross him?


21 posted on 01/05/2010 5:22:29 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: Talisker

And the stinking toddler, Frances Piven, will not escape the rattlesnake’s fangs.

If she’s still around for the takeover.


22 posted on 01/05/2010 5:28:07 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: reasonisfaith
Sad but true.

The question remains—at the takeover, will Cloward-Piven be among those shot immediately, or will their murder at the hands of the dictator have to wait until later when, inevitably, they cross him?

Usually the Useful idiots are immediately terminated,
as they know too much and are no longer useful.

23 posted on 01/05/2010 5:29:44 PM PST by Uriíel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: runninglips

You have a point. The liberal elite DO see themselves as smarter, better informed, more enlightened, and generally of a higher social strata than everyone else, especially conservatives, who they regard as stupid, bible thumping, gun loving, sister marrying neanderthals.

And that leads to a dangerous condition, one where liberals actually believe that ordinary people are not capable of making decisions for themselves so they will simply enslave all the people and think for them.


24 posted on 01/05/2010 5:38:41 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (The Second Amendment. Don't MAKE me use it.)
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To: reasonisfaith
See The American Thinkerarticle entitled, "Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis":

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html

25 posted on 01/05/2010 5:40:39 PM PST by jonrick46 (We're being water boarded with the sewage of Marxism.)
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To: reasonisfaith

Actually, the Cloward-Piven strategy does seem to be poised to accomplish one of its stated goals quite successfully: tearing down an existing government. So in that respect, it would seem to be working perfectly.


26 posted on 01/05/2010 5:46:04 PM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: reasonisfaith

WHAT!!! ELITIST WHITE LIBERAL FEMALE ENSLAVES BLACKS AND HISPANICS TO GENERATIONAL POVERTY?????????. And Frances Piven can write in her memoirs that she was responsible for diverting untold numbers of unsuspecting Americans (many of them blacks and Hispanics) into a life of welfare dependence and poverty. Think of it—their children and grandchildren were born into the gift of poverty, courtesy of Frances Piven. ONE WONDERS WHEN THE BLACK RACE IS GOING TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES.


27 posted on 01/05/2010 6:05:50 PM PST by ronnie raygun (Leaders who refuse to lead will be lead by the people)
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To: Little Pig

“tearing down an existing government”

But in truth, this is not their most important goal.

The most important goal of Cloward, Piven, Alinsky or Lucifer himself is self-aggrandizement. In this they will ultimately lose.

And the only way they have advanced their agenda (the lesser agenda of the overthrow of capitalism) is by concealing it completely from view, while accomplishing the opposite of each particular policy issue along the way (such as poverty, feminism, environment, and the rest).

So their victory is both backwards and stolen, demonstrating the fact that their ideology has zero, or even negative, intrinsic value. And what comes as a devastating defeat for the Cloward-Pivens is that none of them have either the intellect to understand this or the courage to face it.


28 posted on 01/05/2010 6:10:32 PM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: reasonisfaith

`


29 posted on 01/05/2010 6:30:17 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Always do what you said you'd do when you were drunk. It'll teach you to keep your mouth shut.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I think the very hardest times I have ever had keeping my word was when I opened my mouth while “feeling no pain”. Usually it involved helping a friend move, once it was a promise to get up in the AM and leave the state forever....the worst part of that was, I had to drive across two states to get home when I sobered up.....and no, I didn’t drive drunk. I fell asleep in my car in South Dakota, I woke up on the far side of Iowa, and boy did my head hurt....and my ego when my friends saw me that next night.


30 posted on 01/05/2010 9:44:37 PM PST by runninglips (All that is necessary for evil to triumph is Republicans to act like Liberals)
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To: runninglips

Ow! Ow! Ow!


31 posted on 01/06/2010 3:23:22 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("Always do what you said you'd do when you were drunk. It'll teach you to keep your mouth shut.")
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To: reasonisfaith; Plutarch; Blood of Tyrants

Frances Fox Piven, woman in green sweater in about the center, behind Clinton.

Richard Clower, the older man in a gray suit to her left (as you face the picture, to the right.)

All of their articles, including th famous Cloward-Piven article "Teh Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty" (May 2, 1966) are available on a searchable digital archive, but unfortunately, only to subscribers.

32 posted on 01/06/2010 8:48:43 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Remember, half the people here are below average.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thanks.


33 posted on 01/07/2010 6:44:40 AM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: A_Former_Democrat

An ghetto is a valuable piece of real estate. More of mankind’s wealth has come out of it than out of any castle — and castles and ghettos are similar in many ways.


34 posted on 01/07/2010 6:48:16 AM PST by bvw
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To: reasonisfaith
. And what comes as a devastating defeat for the Cloward-Pivens is that none of them have either the intellect to understand this or the courage to face it.

What these people fail to see is that the collapse of society does not bring about a Utopia. It brings about a dictator. The collapse brings chaos, chaos brings about calls for "someone" to establish order. In the end you get Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, or Putin. In each case the dictator was welcomed in in order to put an end to the chaos. In every case the result was hardly Utopian.
35 posted on 01/07/2010 6:57:52 AM PST by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: GonzoGOP

True.

I do believe the Pivens of the world, though misguided, are not entirely benign in their endeavors.

Although many can’t chew with the teeth of the dragon, they are are marked with the slithery scales and pierced by the terrible spirit of envy, quietly taking pleasure when the innocent are scalded by fiery breath.

They look away from the blackness of their own hearts, hiding from it in egalitarianism and “social justice.”

I pray they find strength and wisdom, and that it leads them to the only path of salvation. (I found it, and I’m just as guilty as they are.)


36 posted on 01/07/2010 7:47:10 AM PST by reasonisfaith (Liberals are just creative enough to fall into their own intellectual trap.)
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To: bvw

I guess that explains all the expensive trashed out streets and vacant, windowless buildings.


37 posted on 01/07/2010 8:17:00 AM PST by A_Former_Democrat
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